With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

[WuTang_OG]

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[dhackett1565]

yes, you are missing it. He not only improved his mechanics, he jumped his 3pt% from 21% with us when he arrived to 40%. Not only that, if you want to use this bogus rookie season baseline, he jumped from 35% to 40% while also taking the same attempts (4). Um, what else? His efg% went to almost 60% last season vs from his rookie year of 53%. So yeah, Darko definitely had an impact overall shooting, both mechanics and role.

Rookie season: 41.2% of his 3s from the corner, 45.7% therefrom; 27.7% ATB
Second season: 45.5% of his 3s from the corner, but only 36.5% from there; 22.5% ATB
Third season: 54.2% of his 3s from the corner, 41.6% from there; 38.5% ATB on 1.7 FGA/g

So yeah, you can make an argument about that if you like, but to me, the corner is a larger deal and that level of improvement suggests "hot streak" more than it does immediate improvement. Of course, if he does it again this year, I will be compelled to see the alternate POV, heh.

Just to be clear, the 1.7 attempts per game of 38% shooting above the break this year is just noise with too small a sample to believe.

But his rookie year corner shooting, which came on 1.6 attempts per game, is a rock solid foundation such that any corner shooting thereafter is not an improvement? So much so that we can ignore the dip in year two and also ignore the significantly higher volume in year three?

[tsherkin]

Just to be clear, the 1.7 attempts per game of 38% shooting above the break this year is just noise with too small a sample to believe.

But his rookie year corner shooting, which came on 1.6 attempts per game, is a rock solid foundation such that any corner shooting thereafter is not an improvement? So much so that we can ignore the dip in year two and also ignore the significantly higher volume in year three?

No, it's that he's shot well from the corner this year, his rookie year and the first 50 or so games of his second season.

There's a difference between the 109 or so attempts he took this year, and the approximately 327 shots he's taken from the corner in his career to date (over which he's north of 40%).

[tsherkin]

Watch on YouTube

It was a good game, for sure.

[dhackett1565]

Just to be clear, the 1.7 attempts per game of 38% shooting above the break this year is just noise with too small a sample to believe.

But his rookie year corner shooting, which came on 1.6 attempts per game, is a rock solid foundation such that any corner shooting thereafter is not an improvement? So much so that we can ignore the dip in year two and also ignore the significantly higher volume in year three?

No, it's that he's shot well from the corner this year, his rookie year and the first 50 or so games of his second season.

There's a difference between the 109 or so attempts he took this year, and the approximately 327 shots he's taken from the corner in his career to date (over which he's north of 40%).

The argument being that any single season sample is insufficient to draw conclusions from compared to a multiple season sample? I mean, fair, but hardly going to get us anywhere in evaluating shooting improvement. If you think there's zero reliable data just say that, but don't present his rookie year shooting splits like they mean something then shrug off very similar data that goes against your point.

[tsherkin]

The argument being that any single season sample is insufficient to draw conclusions from compared to a multiple season sample? I mean, fair, but hardly going to get us anywhere in evaluating shooting improvement. If you think there's zero reliable data just say that, but don't present his rookie year shooting splits like they mean something then shrug off very similar data that goes against your point.

I didn't ONLY present his rookie season. He's got 2 and a half years worth of shooting well from the corners... and two full seasons of being a sub-30% shooter ATB. So a short sample of him shooting well this year is of course going to be met with skepticism. Especially since he wasn't exactly lighting it up from the FT line at the same time either. That isn't an infallible correlation, no doubt, but it's one more piece on top of the rest.

If he does it again this year, we have something to talk about, but otherwise, it's a blip at that volume, over 64 games, no less.

[dhackett1565]

The argument being that any single season sample is insufficient to draw conclusions from compared to a multiple season sample? I mean, fair, but hardly going to get us anywhere in evaluating shooting improvement. If you think there's zero reliable data just say that, but don't present his rookie year shooting splits like they mean something then shrug off very similar data that goes against your point.

I didn't ONLY present his rookie season. He's got 2 and a half years worth of shooting well from the corners... and two full seasons of being a sub-30% shooter ATB. So a short sample of him shooting well this year is of course going to be met with skepticism. Especially since he wasn't exactly lighting it up from the FT line at the same time either. That isn't an infallible correlation, no doubt, but it's one more piece on top of the rest.

If he does it again this year, we have something to talk about, but otherwise, it's a blip at that volume, over 64 games, no less.

My point is, you presented this pattern:

45%, 36%, 41%

And claimed that was evidence that he hasn't improved - a claim that is only supported by that 45% number.

And presented this pattern:

28%, 23%, 38%

And claimed that there was insufficient evidence that he HAS improved.

The sample sizes for each of the 6 data points are pretty equivalent. So either the 38% should be looked at askew, and so should the 45%, or neither should.

If that 45% was 33%, how would you feel about his 41% from the corners last year? Improvement? Or would you again be saying that it's out of family with his previous larger sample so we'd have to take a wait and see approach? If the former, you are being inconsistent. If the latter, there is no statistical scenario where you would be giving credit to the coaching.

[Yallbecrazy]

One thing to remember is that only wings should be taking corner 3s with pgs taking them if they're playing offball that possession. Centres should only be taking atb 3s since they need to get back on defense.

With CMB's dribbling, passing, rebounding, and defense he should be playing in the middle of the floor most of the time so his corner 3 pt shooting isn't as important.

[tsherkin]

45%, 36%, 41%

And claimed that was evidence that he hasn't improved - a claim that is only supported by that 45% number.

No? I claimed that he has always been a pretty good corner shooter, which is a different statement.

The sample sizes for each of the 6 data points are pretty equivalent. So either the 38% should be looked at askew, and so should the 45%, or neither should.

We've already established that he has triple the corner 3PA than the ATB shooting from just this season...

If that 45% was 33%, how would you feel about his 41% from the corners last year? Improvement? Or would you again be saying that it's out of family with his previous larger sample so we'd have to take a wait and see approach? If the former, you are being inconsistent. If the latter, there is no statistical scenario where you would be giving credit to the coaching.

I am not going to credit the coaching until and unless I see something similar this year. Jumping on short-sample stuff is usually nonsense. And we've even seen it before with guys on the roster like Scottie. So no, I have no intention of being overly concerned with the blip from this year unless I see it happen again in the 2026 season.

I will, however, be happy with his utility as a roleplayer, because he has established that he's a competent corner shooter outside of the post-trade run in 2024.

[dhackett1565]

I am not going to credit the coaching until and unless I see something similar this year. Jumping on short-sample stuff is usually nonsense. And we've even seen it before with guys on the roster like Scottie. So no, I have no intention of being overly concerned with the blip from this year unless I see it happen again in the 2026 season.

I will, however, be happy with his utility as a roleplayer, because he has established that he's a competent corner shooter outside of the post-trade run in 2024.

See, that was easy. Just say there's no possible way to present you with evidence for improvement in shooting for a player over a short time period. Meaning there is basically no way to present any evidence for Darko's coaching re: shooting, no matter how much success his players had (or have not had) under him to date.

That's a reasonable position. It just means the only argument to be made is qualitative (form improvement, etc), which others have tried to make here, but that has also been rejected. Because it hasn't shown up in the numbers yet, the very numbers that you now reject out of hand because of sample size.

[tsherkin]

See, that was easy. Just say there's no possible way to present you with evidence for improvement in shooting for a player over a short time period. Meaning there is basically no way to present any evidence for Darko's coaching re: shooting, no matter how much success his players had (or have not had) under him to date.

I don't think a single season is worth considering for such, no. I think it's too short a time frame. I have said as much already, although as I said, we're really looking at such a small number of events as for it not to be worth mentioning... while his corner shooting is more than triple the amount we're discussing, and has been more consistent from season to season, so they aren't really comparable examples.

[Reeko]

It might not happen right away but I think at some point during his rookie season CMB is going to become the MVP of the bench lineups. I think that because of him we're going to see our bench units winning those matchups most nights, even as a rookie I predict he will be exceedingly impactful.

[DangerZone13]

It might not happen right away but I think at some point during his rookie season CMB is going to become the MVP of the bench lineups. I think that because of him we're going to see our bench units winning those matchups most nights, even as a rookie I predict he will be exceedingly impactful.

Thank you for actually talking about CMB in the CMB thread. Man did that get off the rails.

I have a good feeling about this dude too, and had the same feeling that CMB is gonna be the focal point of the bench at least by the end of the season. Pretty sure he'll drive the bench defense from the outset, and the offense will come along slowly.

With him and Martin both having rather chaotic elements to their game, I'd love to see Darko use all his pieces to create maximum chaos for the defense around Ingram.

I'm not expecting a great season, but I'm anticipating a fun team to watch. That's already way better than last year.

[Fairview4Life]

It might not happen right away but I think at some point during his rookie season CMB is going to become the MVP of the bench lineups. I think that because of him we're going to see our bench units winning those matchups most nights, even as a rookie I predict he will be exceedingly impactful.

I'd like to see the goon squad (Shaed, CMB, Mogbo, Martin) come on for random 3 minute stretches and go high energy early 90's Arkansas to spice things up a bit.

[StopitLeo]

It might not happen right away but I think at some point during his rookie season CMB is going to become the MVP of the bench lineups. I think that because of him we're going to see our bench units winning those matchups most nights, even as a rookie I predict he will be exceedingly impactful.

I'd like to see the goon squad (Shaed, CMB, Mogbo, Martin) come on for random 3 minute stretches and go high energy early 90's Arkansas to spice things up a bit.

3 minutes of hell?

[Fairview4Life]

It might not happen right away but I think at some point during his rookie season CMB is going to become the MVP of the bench lineups. I think that because of him we're going to see our bench units winning those matchups most nights, even as a rookie I predict he will be exceedingly impactful.

I'd like to see the goon squad (Shaed, CMB, Mogbo, Martin) come on for random 3 minute stretches and go high energy early 90's Arkansas to spice things up a bit.

3 minutes of hell?

Yeah, that's about as long as I can go watching both teams not score a basket.

[StopitLeo]

I'd like to see the goon squad (Shaed, CMB, Mogbo, Martin) come on for random 3 minute stretches and go high energy early 90's Arkansas to spice things up a bit.

3 minutes of hell?

Yeah, that's about as long as I can go watching both teams not score a basket.

Mamukelashvili is a high-energy guy. I’d throw him out there to round out that lineup and let him bomb 3s.

[bboyskinnylegs]

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[mad-man]

This dude seems like a massive bust waiting to happen. A year of tanking and prolonged 'injuries' for this? lol.

Dude specialized in bully ball at college which wont be nearly as effective against grown men in the league.

Hasn't shown meaningful flashes in defence, dribbling or shooting and is undersized?

Ship this clown and his **** gf to the sun.

[Duffman100]

This dude seems like a massive bust waiting to happen. A year of tanking and prolonged 'injuries' for this? lol.

Dude specialized in bully ball at college which wont be nearly as effective against grown men in the league.

Hasn't shown meaningful flashes in defence, dribbling or shooting and is undersized?

Ship this clown and his **** gf to the sun.

Can we let him play a few minutes of NBA ball?