Shams Wow: Ayton signs 2 year deal with Lakers

[mkot]

Which podcast?

Allen Sliwa, it's a Lakers pod

Unfamiliar. But that's a team podcast from a fan, so I don't know how much you want to take that to heart. It's not commentary you see much around here, and it IS the sort of homer nonsense you'd expect from a team podcast.

I know, that's the reason I listen to a couple of them to see how most Lakers fans are feeling. It's accurate within that group. The podcaster is actually a very reasonable guy who worked for ESPN radio previously.

[tsherkin]

I know, that's the reason I listen to a couple of them to see how most Lakers fans are feeling. It's accurate within that group. The podcaster is actually a very reasonable guy who worked for ESPN radio previously.

Right, but fans are nuts. You know this. They aren't the place to go for reasoned opinions. And that's... part and parcel of being a fan. Insane belief in the team, really.

[darmani]

Read on Twitter

Good luck.

[mkot]

Bro where

I was listening to a podcast and the guy reading out comments saying Lakers are title contender. Ayton is the missing piece and can beat OKC and Denver. Ayton is Lively on steroid etc etc., It's a Lakers podcast and half the comments he read are like that.

These are what we call casuals. Types who barely watch more then half a dozen game all season.


Or just hot stakes chasing Internet trolls.


The same crowd who repeated Lakers in 4-5 in entire build up to the playoffs. Just say **** for **** and giggles, not rooted in reality.

True, but don't tell me it's not fun listening to them when you guys gentlemen swept them

[morosis]

i cant believe a DeAndre Ayton thread has gone on for 17 pages.

we have put more effort into this thread than the man himself puts into basketball.

[phanman]

Let me paraphrase the above:

"I am going to completely ignore the rest of the conversation. I am going to completely ignore the fact that he's acted one way for the first several years of his career across two teams and have expectations that are completely opposite of all data that we have available. It doesn't matter that he had CP3 (arguably one of the greatest distributors of all time) for him in Phoenix and he failed. It doesn't matter that he has claimed basically each and every offseason that this is going to be the year that things are different yet he ends up with the same results.

I WANT Ayton to be good because my narrative is such that I WANT this to be a success. And that is all that matters; evidence be damned."

How exactly was his Phoenix stint a failure? - because they failed to win it all? You do realize that their inability to breakthrough wasn't all on Ayton right? He was drafted into a **** of an organization that only turned things around after Rubio's addition in the bubble season and then CP3 coming on board.

Friendly reminder he was still the starting center for a Phoenix team that a pretty successful 3 year run:
2021: won 51 games as the 2nd seed made a run to the Finals in 2021 (5th in ORTG & 9th DRTG)
2022: won a franchise record 64 games where they finished 1st (4th in ORTG, 3rd in DRTG)
2023: an overall weird campaign highlighted by the trade for KD to go 45-37 (14th in ORTG & 7th in DRTG)

It's not like he was featured offensively with both Book and CP3 commanding the offense and then lateron KD.

Bruh... what you said is acceptable if he was like a late 1st round pick or something.

The problem isn't that he wasn't featured offensively, he doesn't have the tool and never improved himself to be the guy.

1st OVERALL pick and the best he can come up with is his "dominayton" meme?

Give me a break.

Where he was drafted is irrelevant. You've spewed nonsense into this thread talking about how he isn't worth an ~8m salary despite that being much less than starting center money in today's game. To put it into context for next year, he's going to be the ~195th highest paid player sandwiched between the likes of Vasilije Micic and KJ Martin who aren't even rotation players.

The only reason why I brought up the offense comment is because that is why he became disinterested in his role in Phoenix. Despite all that, they were successful with as an integral part on both ends of the floor.

[BigGargamel]

i cant believe a DeAndre Ayton thread has gone on for 17 pages.

we have put more effort into this thread than the man himself puts into basketball.

It's not only ESPN that won't shut up about the Lakers.

[enigmatics]

No, that is asinine. That will not happen.

Once again, wishful thinking

There's a reason why he had no trade value for portland from ANY teams in the league.

It's actually comical how much praise you are trying to give him.

You're arguing like Nuggets are replacing Jokic with Ayton...


Also... From Shams.


“I’m told the Knicks, Clippers, Bucks, Pacers, Cavs and Nuggets all had interest in Ayton before his decision to sign with the Lakers.”

“Multiple teams also reached out to Portland Trail Blazers GM Joe Cronin after the buyout of Ayton on Sunday, and I’m told they all got rave reviews of him as a teammate.”

Doesn't mean anything. He could have gotten that from Ayton's agent and doesn't take much IQ to say teams are going to sniff around a 26 year old former #1.

There's A REASON that it also didn't work in Portland and they literally drafted centers in B2B drafts ultimately leading to a buyout of Ayton instead of a trade.

Beyond the offensive abilities - is he going to take care of all the little things the Lakers need out of their starting center? Based on his career the answer is no.

[Invictus88]

How exactly was his Phoenix stint a failure? - because they failed to win it all? You do realize that their inability to breakthrough wasn't all on Ayton right? He was drafted into a **** of an organization that only turned things around after Rubio's addition in the bubble season and then CP3 coming on board.

Friendly reminder he was still the starting center for a Phoenix team that a pretty successful 3 year run:
2021: won 51 games as the 2nd seed made a run to the Finals in 2021 (5th in ORTG & 9th DRTG)
2022: won a franchise record 64 games where they finished 1st (4th in ORTG, 3rd in DRTG)
2023: an overall weird campaign highlighted by the trade for KD to go 45-37 (14th in ORTG & 7th in DRTG)

It's not like he was featured offensively with both Book and CP3 commanding the offense and then lateron KD.

Bruh... what you said is acceptable if he was like a late 1st round pick or something.

The problem isn't that he wasn't featured offensively, he doesn't have the tool and never improved himself to be the guy.

1st OVERALL pick and the best he can come up with is his "dominayton" meme?

Give me a break.

Where he was drafted is irrelevant. You've spewed nonsense into this thread talking about how he isn't worth an ~8m salary despite that being much less than starting center money in today's game. To put it into context for next year, he's going to be the ~195th highest paid player sandwiched between the likes of Vasilije Micic and KJ Martin who aren't even rotation players.

The only reason why I brought up the offense comment is because that is why he became disinterested in his role in Phoenix. Despite all that, they were successful with as an integral part on both ends of the floor.

I never said he wasn't worth 8m. I just said you shouldn't expect more than that in performance given his history.

The facts are that he hasn't lived up to is current contract in value. He has had motivational problems and has disappeared in games. You can try to blame Phoenix not reaching their potential on other stars like Durant, Booker and CP3 I guess but Ayton also has to shoulder some of the blame. Folks keep posting clips of videos that are prime examples as to why. For the amount of money and talent that team had for them not to win a ring was a failure.

Being disinterested and disappearing in games when you are being paid 30+ million a year by a club IS A FAILURE. You are expected to perform at a high level given your salary. He did not meet that expectation; plain and simple.

He was then traded to Portland where he was again expected by folks there to deliver value commensurate with his salary. Instead he was... something else... to put it mildly. They PAID to make him LEAVE. That is a FAILURE.

So circling back: If you are the Lakers you are now paying 8 million for this guy. If he performs like a mediocre center with suspect defense and puts up 15 and 10 with some empty rebounds and dunks thrown in... sure... that's fine. It's just 8 million. And there's nobody else.

But you don't go then touting how this guy is then going to have some glorious rebirth and suddenly outplay every single year he has played in the league up until that point. I'm sorry dude. The guy has been in the league several years and hasn't shown that.

[enigmatics]

Read on Twitter

Good luck.

Dude warned everyone.

NEW YORK -- Deandre Ayton was asked Wednesday to define what success in the NBA looks like to him.

"Definitely getting to my second contract; that's my success," Ayton said at media availability for top lottery picks.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23854252/deandre-ayton-nba-success-getting-second-deal

[Shaka_Zulu]

i cant believe a DeAndre Ayton thread has gone on for 17 pages.

we have put more effort into this thread than the man himself puts into basketball.

Lol true, but to be fair it's an interesting topic. How often does a former 1 pick that earned max contract, get bought out?

And sign for a huge market team like Lakers with all the spot light. Plus they are both hugely flawed, him as a player, and them as a team construction, so there's alot of meat to pick on this bone dialscussion wise lol

[Shaka_Zulu]

I was listening to a podcast and the guy reading out comments saying Lakers are title contender. Ayton is the missing piece and can beat OKC and Denver. Ayton is Lively on steroid etc etc., It's a Lakers podcast and half the comments he read are like that.

These are what we call casuals. Types who barely watch more then half a dozen game all season.


Or just hot stakes chasing Internet trolls.


The same crowd who repeated Lakers in 4-5 in entire build up to the playoffs. Just say **** for **** and giggles, not rooted in reality.

True, but don't tell me it's not fun listening to them when you guys gentlemen swept them

Ofcourse lol, it's part of the equation, both media and casuals part of the fanbase having that as mantra, added to the match up. It litterally fueled the wolves player to go to work.


But usually, regular viewing fans recognise the flaws and drawbacks of their teams, even the most positive bravado ones. For example all 5 match threads in that series, there was only 1 Laker fan (rest were sensible) that was entirely deluded and cocky, the infamous Bob lol.

[Archx]

Once again, wishful thinking

There's a reason why he had no trade value for portland from ANY teams in the league.

It's actually comical how much praise you are trying to give him.

You're arguing like Nuggets are replacing Jokic with Ayton...


Also... From Shams.


“I’m told the Knicks, Clippers, Bucks, Pacers, Cavs and Nuggets all had interest in Ayton before his decision to sign with the Lakers.”

“Multiple teams also reached out to Portland Trail Blazers GM Joe Cronin after the buyout of Ayton on Sunday, and I’m told they all got rave reviews of him as a teammate.”

Doesn't mean anything. He could have gotten that from Ayton's agent and doesn't take much IQ to say teams are going to sniff around a 26 year old former #1.

There's A REASON that it also didn't work in Portland and they literally drafted centers in B2B drafts ultimately leading to a buyout of Ayton instead of a trade.

Beyond the offensive abilities - is he going to take care of all the little things the Lakers need out of their starting center? Based on his career the answer is no.

You completely missed the point and context of the argument. He said no one was interested in Ayton, which was clearly wrong. And also, Lakers are not paying him 30M for multiple years. He's basically a cheap rental that will replace freaking Hayes in the starting lineup. A guy who was a starter and played 5 mpg in the playoffs lol...

What Ayton has done or will do is besides the point and we'll see soon enough how it turns out. Maybe it will go well

[phanman]

I never said he wasn't worth 8m. I just said you shouldn't expect more than that in performance given his history.

That portion of my response wasn't directed at you.

The facts are that he hasn't lived up to is current contract in value. He has had motivational problems and has disappeared in games. You can try to blame Phoenix not reaching their potential on other stars like Durant, Booker and CP3 I guess but Ayton also has to shoulder some of the blame. Folks keep posting clips of videos that are prime examples as to why. For the amount of money and talent that team had for them not to win a ring was a failure.

Being disinterested and disappearing in games when you are being paid 30+ million a year by a club IS A FAILURE. You are expected to perform at a high level given your salary. He did not meet that expectation; plain and simple.

He was then traded to Portland where he was again expected by folks there to deliver value commensurate with his salary. Instead he was... something else... to put it mildly. They PAID to make him LEAVE. That is a FAILURE.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that he didn't live up to his contract but remember Phoenix didn't even want to give him that contract and it was him who got Indiana to give it to him before the Suns begrudgingly matched it and brought back an unhappy DA. It resulted in that miserable 2023 campaign where they flipped everything for KD and became an afterthought offensively. He definitely deserves some blame, but remember he wasn't the leader or even one of the leaders of those teams, it was Book, CP and that in that last season KD. He still was able to anchor a top 7 defense and averaged 18/10. A few bad clips don't erase his actual on court production.

More like he was banished to Portland against his wishes and spent 2 years on a dysfunctional team. He obviously didn't live up to his potential but there's a massive difference in going from a playoff contending team to a rebuilding one who just shipped off their franchise cornerstone. Yes it was a failure there is no disputing that as I mentioned in my intial post.

So circling back: If you are the Lakers you are now paying 8 million for this guy. If he performs like a mediocre center with suspect defense and puts up 15 and 10 with some empty rebounds and dunks thrown in... sure... that's fine. It's just 8 million. And there's nobody else.

But you don't go then touting how this guy is then going to have some glorious rebirth and suddenly outplay every single year he has played in the league up until that point. I'm sorry dude. The guy has been in the league several years and hasn't shown that.

This is where you simply don't get it. At just 8m and the gaping hole he is going to fill at center, it's essentially guaranteed that he is going to outperform that contract. You keep spouting mediocre defense but fail to realize that in each of those contending seasons in Phoenix, he he successfully anchored a 9th, 3rd and 4th DRTG for his team. Is he Rudy Gobert down there? - No, but he isn't as bad as your trying to paint him out to be. Plus he averaged closer to 18/10 on 60%FG.

Also your reaching heavily, nobody here is saying that he is

"going to have some glorious rebirth and suddenly outplay every single year he has played in the league up until that point. "

there is a difference in playing well and setting career marks across the board. He's been been bought out from a max contract and is now making a fraction of what he did for the Lakers. This is going to be a motivated Ayton, especially being in LA and the potential of attaching him next to Luka for the foreseeable future.

[lilfishi22]

Interesting, I appreciate the stat breakdown. Off of the eye test I would not have guessed it would be so close, I tip my hat to you.

The only thing I can hold onto here is that Ayton hasnt been on a good team over that 3 year span which will also influence the calls you get but I'm kind of moving the goal posts here

To your point, I can absolutely see him getting to the line north of 4 attempts per game with ease, its literally getting fouled one more time...and I absolutely would point my finger at Laker privilege as the reason. Tbh I'd expect it to go a little higher than that. If you could bet on that I bet the odds would be pretty high

DA played his best, most impactful basketball alongside Chris Paul. We turned him into a versatile defensive C who just finishes. Essentially we took away those self creation he was working on in the first few seasons in order to simplify his game to one that made him more efficient and made the most impact on both ends of the court. If he was happy to be that guy and played with a consistent level of intensity, there's no doubt he would've stuck around in Phoenix. The problem is he fancied himself to be more than that and I don't blame him as a former #1 pick who does have some offensive skills. But the more we involved him in the offense, the more and more he went to what he felt comfortable with and that's avoiding the contact and shooting away from the basket. And as his efficiency fell because the steady diet of lob dunks and finishes around the basket changed to shooting more self created midrangers, more fadeaways etc, he was also wanting more of those kinds of touches which hurt offensive flow.

Over 8 years of basketball, you can see the type of shots he wants to take and is comfortable taking. And those shots aren't conducive to getting calls. Refs aren't being put into a position where they even have to give him the benefit of the doubt due to contact because there's rarely contact where he's taking his shots. Like, if you have a game where you regularly seek contact, there will be a whistle multiplier just by putting on the LA jersey. But if that isn't your game, what whistle is there? You look at Jaxon Hayes last season playing 55 games, he had 3 games the entire season where he had more than 5 FTA. In DA's first season with Portland where he played 56 games (so similar numbers), how many games did he have the entire season where he had more than 5 FTA? The exact same number (3). Hayes is also a far lower usage guy and he's basically played the DA role already.

The LA whistle is a real factor if getting to the line is a major part of your game and you force the refs to make a call. The thing with DA is that his low FTr isn't some consequence of playing for a bad team. It's a feature of his game and that goes back to his college days where he had a pretty low FTr for a high usage guy, and it was lower than his peers like Bamba, JJJr and Bagley. At the end of the day, that is who he is. Will he benefit from some calls that he wouldn't have gotten before if he wasn't a Laker? Yeah probably but is he going to more than double his FTAs? Will he even get enough touches to draw that many fouls?

Fair enough. Your stance is legit. I still believe that there will be an increase regardless, he'll be playing with Luka now who will definitely get him playing closer to how he did with CP. Lukas big become pnr lob threat and that will put him at the net far more.

You say his style of play will dictate how often he's at the line because he wants to be further away from the basket naturally. I say the Luka factor will reverse that to a degree but just wearing the Lakers jersey will have him getting more calls then ever before. I guess we can only wait and see what happens

I expect Luka/Lebron will do what Chris Paul did for him, which is to help boost his FTr by about 3-4 percentage points. The result of that was an increase from 2.9FTA per36 to 3.2FTA per36. At the end of the day, you can get Ayton the ball but if he isn't going up looking for contact, he's not going to get the calls.

[SkyBill40]

DA played his best, most impactful basketball alongside Chris Paul. We turned him into a versatile defensive C who just finishes. Essentially we took away those self creation he was working on in the first few seasons in order to simplify his game to one that made him more efficient and made the most impact on both ends of the court. If he was happy to be that guy and played with a consistent level of intensity, there's no doubt he would've stuck around in Phoenix. The problem is he fancied himself to be more than that and I don't blame him as a former #1 pick who does have some offensive skills. But the more we involved him in the offense, the more and more he went to what he felt comfortable with and that's avoiding the contact and shooting away from the basket. And as his efficiency fell because the steady diet of lob dunks and finishes around the basket changed to shooting more self created midrangers, more fadeaways etc, he was also wanting more of those kinds of touches which hurt offensive flow.

Over 8 years of basketball, you can see the type of shots he wants to take and is comfortable taking. And those shots aren't conducive to getting calls. Refs aren't being put into a position where they even have to give him the benefit of the doubt due to contact because there's rarely contact where he's taking his shots. Like, if you have a game where you regularly seek contact, there will be a whistle multiplier just by putting on the LA jersey. But if that isn't your game, what whistle is there? You look at Jaxon Hayes last season playing 55 games, he had 3 games the entire season where he had more than 5 FTA. In DA's first season with Portland where he played 56 games (so similar numbers), how many games did he have the entire season where he had more than 5 FTA? The exact same number (3). Hayes is also a far lower usage guy and he's basically played the DA role already.

The LA whistle is a real factor if getting to the line is a major part of your game and you force the refs to make a call. The thing with DA is that his low FTr isn't some consequence of playing for a bad team. It's a feature of his game and that goes back to his college days where he had a pretty low FTr for a high usage guy, and it was lower than his peers like Bamba, JJJr and Bagley. At the end of the day, that is who he is. Will he benefit from some calls that he wouldn't have gotten before if he wasn't a Laker? Yeah probably but is he going to more than double his FTAs? Will he even get enough touches to draw that many fouls?

Fair enough. Your stance is legit. I still believe that there will be an increase regardless, he'll be playing with Luka now who will definitely get him playing closer to how he did with CP. Lukas big become pnr lob threat and that will put him at the net far more.

You say his style of play will dictate how often he's at the line because he wants to be further away from the basket naturally. I say the Luka factor will reverse that to a degree but just wearing the Lakers jersey will have him getting more calls then ever before. I guess we can only wait and see what happens

I expect Luka/Lebron will do what Chris Paul did for him, which is to help boost his FTr by about 3-4 percentage points. The result of that was an increase from 2.9FTA per36 to 3.2FTA per36. At the end of the day, you can get Ayton the ball but if he isn't going up looking for contact, he's not going to get the calls.

And we both know how he is with contact.

[Mr Puddles]

Read on Twitter

Good luck.

The fact that the second season is a player option makes me think Ayton will play hard this season, feed of off Doncic on offense, and then trick some team next season into giving him a big contract extention.

[lonea]

The only reason why I brought up the offense comment is because that is why he became disinterested in his role in Phoenix. Despite all that, they were successful with as an integral part on both ends of the floor.

Haha, imagine him being on the Lakers and he is the last option in the starting lineup. Talk about “disinterested”

He had the life in Phoenix, he fked it up.
He could’ve been the one in Portland, he fked it up.
You think somehow being in LA will make him interested in “basketball”?

[lonea]

The fact that the second season is a player option makes me think Ayton will play hard this season, feed of off Doncic on offense, and then trick some team next season into giving him a big contract extention.

He’ll be out every night getting it on with pornstar or getting coked up in town and flushing it out with diuretic

[JellosJigglin]

Lakers finished 3rd in the west and did it without a center after the AD trade. All this talk about Ayton's career arc is kind of irrelevant from the Lakers' perspective.

At this point they know what they're getting and it's still a massive upgrade from what they had and didn't cost any assets. They essentially got their Mark Williams without giving up Knecht, a first and a pick swap. If Ayton can perform to Williams level then it was a great move. No one is expecting him to live up to his #1 draft status.