Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[HomoSapien]

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[Bulliever2020]

The longer this goes on the more uneasy I start to feel. Not worried about losing him, but I also don't want a situation where we strong arm our way into a bringing back a disgruntled player.

ignoring the fact that we are less than 72 hours into the free agency negotiation window: what are the examples of a protracted restricted free agency period ruining the relationship between a player and a team where every indication going in is that both sides want to come to an agreement?

the closest thing i'm aware of is the ben gordon situation, but that was a case where we actively pulled our best offer despite him eventually wanting to take it, so obviously we weren't particularly motivated to make things work. it was also 17 years ago, so on its own it's not really a data point that suggests this is a common thing that we have to be worried about.

he might have sore feelings if this drags out. he'll have tens of millions of dollars to get over it.

Ayton and the Suns is a recent example.

Ayton has really been painted as the picture of maturity too. His career has gone straight downhill since then.

[HomoSapien]

ignoring the fact that we are less than 72 hours into the free agency negotiation window: what are the examples of a protracted restricted free agency period ruining the relationship between a player and a team where every indication going in is that both sides want to come to an agreement?

the closest thing i'm aware of is the ben gordon situation, but that was a case where we actively pulled our best offer despite him eventually wanting to take it, so obviously we weren't particularly motivated to make things work. it was also 17 years ago, so on its own it's not really a data point that suggests this is a common thing that we have to be worried about.

he might have sore feelings if this drags out. he'll have tens of millions of dollars to get over it.

Ayton and the Suns is a recent example.

Ayton has really been painted as the picture of maturity too. His career has gone straight downhill since then.

Of course. I'm just saying there's an important psychological component that shouldn't be overlooked. You need to find the right balance of trying to get a good deal and making a guy, who is clearly being seen as a franchise cornerstone, feel appreciated.

[jnrjr79]

Hollinger is apparently reporting that the Bulls and Giddey are “about the Gulf of Mexico apart” in negotiations.

EDIT: I see I was beaten to this above.

[Bulliever2020]

Ayton and the Suns is a recent example.

Ayton has really been painted as the picture of maturity too. His career has gone straight downhill since then.

Of course. I'm just saying there's an important psychological component that shouldn't be overlooked. You need to find the right balance of trying to get a good deal and making a guy, who is clearly being seen as a franchise cornerstone, feel appreciated.

The Bulls are offering what they feel he is worth. If they feel he is asking for a significant amount more to where it would hurt the team in other areas, than they are under no obligation to offer him more. If he feels disrespected, like anyone in any industry, go find another better offer. If not, just like any other normal schlub, suck it up and show up and do your best. Anything else and you are just hurting yourself. As we've just seen with Ayton.

[TheJordanRule]

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Why would this be the case? I'm a huge fan, obviously, but it sounds like this kid's quite literally expecting $30 mil per year, and I'm also an old head but Jordan was right when he said these kids are incredibly ungrateful after having proven very little. They want the moon.

[HomoSapien]

Ayton has really been painted as the picture of maturity too. His career has gone straight downhill since then.

Of course. I'm just saying there's an important psychological component that shouldn't be overlooked. You need to find the right balance of trying to get a good deal and making a guy, who is clearly being seen as a franchise cornerstone, feel appreciated.

The Bulls are offering what they feel he is worth. If they feel he is asking for a significant amount more to where it would hurt the team in other areas, than they are under no obligation to offer him more. If he feels disrespected, like anyone in any industry, go find another better offer. If not, just like any other normal schlub, suck it up and show up and do your best. Anything else and you are just hurting yourself. As we've just seen with Ayton.

You are dealing with Gen Z athletes here, Coach Knight.

[Hangtime84]

Bye Josh and you are welcome okc

[Bulliever2020]

Of course. I'm just saying there's an important psychological component that shouldn't be overlooked. You need to find the right balance of trying to get a good deal and making a guy, who is clearly being seen as a franchise cornerstone, feel appreciated.

The Bulls are offering what they feel he is worth. If they feel he is asking for a significant amount more to where it would hurt the team in other areas, than they are under no obligation to offer him more. If he feels disrespected, like anyone in any industry, go find another better offer. If not, just like any other normal schlub, suck it up and show up and do your best. Anything else and you are just hurting yourself. As we've just seen with Ayton.

You are dealing with Gen Z athletes here, Coach Knight.

lol cmon now. Serious organizations like the Celtics do things that are the best for their team no matter what. Guys like Isaiah Thomas and Marcus Smart killed themselves for them and were cast off immediately when they were no longer needed. That resulted in a recent championship. Giving guys extra money so their feelings don't get hurt is what results in endless years of playin appearances.

[HomoSapien]

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Why would this be the case? I'm a huge fan, obviously, but it sounds like this kid's quite literally expecting $30 mil per year, and I'm also an old head but Jordan was right when he said these kids are incredibly ungrateful after having proven very little. They want the moon.

In today's NBA $30m seems fair. Hartenstein, Anfernee Simmons, Wiggins, Vassell, and RJ Barrett are all in the $27-29m range. I'd take Giddey over all of them.

[meekrab]

Well at least they're not just handing him the bag like they did with PWill.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

As has been mentioned, my main concern with Giddey is he looked good ONLY when he was given free reign on a team that just traded their best player. Will he be able to co-exist and lessen his usage and still be efficient in a reduced role when we eventually find our #1 and even #2 players for this team? How effective will he be playing off ball? Will he improve enough on defense to not be relentlessly targeted in a playoff situation where every weakness is exploited to a greater degree than a meaningless regular season game? Will his improved shooting percentages sustain or will he still be a guy where the opposing team goes under screens for and sags off of and dares to shoot? These are the questions that make me doubt whether he's a guy I want as a core piece on this team going forward.

Lavine was our 2nd worst player after Vuc.

[The Force.]

If true, this is a very positive sign from the front office.

[GoBlue72391]

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At least they're negotiating and not just giving him a Brinks truck for no reason.

I'm hoping we either get him for no more than $25M or do a sign-and-trade.

[nomorezorro]

two things on ayton:

1) i would say his situation was less about his restricted free agency and more about the fact that his coach hated him, and didn't even want the team to re-sign him
2) from what i gather, most elite athletes are highly self-motivated freaks who don't even have it in them to remain disgruntled or "check out" over negotiations once they've finally come to terms on a long-term agreement. if a guy's play is liable to diminish over something like this, it probably speaks to a larger red flag with their approach to the game. in other words, i don't think deandre ayton's career would have taken a dramatically different arc if the suns just give him a max deal straight out instead of making him go find an offer sheet. (and if anything, that makes me less inclined to give a guy money for fear of hurting his feelings — if you're not going to play your hardest no matter what, i don't wanna give you $30m a year!)

[sco]

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At least they're negotiating and not just giving him a Brinks truck for no reason.

I'm hoping we either get him for no more than $25M or do a sign-and-trade.

Here's where I'm at. It really doesn't benefit either side to cave at this point. If I'm Giddey's agent, I'm holding out hope that some team finds a way to free up cap space somehow to push the Bulls with a $30M+ offer. If I'm the Bulls, I'm not backup up the brinks just yet because the chances of someone coming in and doing that are low. And hey, if someone wants to throw a boatload of assets at us to S&T Giddey, I would at least consider it.

[jnrjr79]

Ayton has really been painted as the picture of maturity too. His career has gone straight downhill since then.

Of course. I'm just saying there's an important psychological component that shouldn't be overlooked. You need to find the right balance of trying to get a good deal and making a guy, who is clearly being seen as a franchise cornerstone, feel appreciated.

The Bulls are offering what they feel he is worth. If they feel he is asking for a significant amount more to where it would hurt the team in other areas, than they are under no obligation to offer him more. If he feels disrespected, like anyone in any industry, go find another better offer. If not, just like any other normal schlub, suck it up and show up and do your best. Anything else and you are just hurting yourself. As we've just seen with Ayton.

I hope the Bulls aren’t offering what they feel he’s worth. I hope they are taking advantage of the lack of available cap space and offering him less than they think he’s worth.

[2weekswithpay]

Spoiler:

Giddey's on/off splits were mediocre. The Bulls were a bit better without Giddey on the court this season, which isn't good for someone who wants 30M AAV. In OKC, this could be excused due to the poor fit and talent on that team, but the Bulls aren't talented enough for this to be overlooked.

[nomorezorro]

In today's NBA $30m seems fair. Hartenstein, Anfernee Simmons, Wiggins, Vassell, and RJ Barrett are all in the $27-29m range. I'd take Giddey over all of them.

hartenstein was intentionally overpaid bruce brown-style to convince him to take a short-term contract with a team option and ensure he left his previous team. the other guys are all seen as varying degrees of bad contracts, and they were all negotiated before the realities of the new apron set in

giddey can argue he should get paid more than those guys, but unless he can prove even one team is willing to give him that much money, there's no reason for the bulls to use undesirable deals from a more free-spending cap environment as a yardstick for this contract

[greenl]

I may be alone in this opinion- but I'm hoping someone gives Giddey an offer and the Bulls do a sign & trade and get some assets for him. I see Giddey as an incredibly flawed player not worth (though I know the market commands it) $30mm a year.