[Shams] Damian Lillard waived

[phanman]

I'd argue that Giannis and Turner are better than any player on the Raptors which has a huge implication in itself on the floor and ceiling of those teams. Giannis isn't just better than anyone on the Raptors, he's an MVP level player in his prime. You'd be hard pressed to name teams led by an MVP caliber player in their prime finish behind a team full of average starter level guys, and the Raptors are really not an exception.

Would I be hard pressed?

Just last year the Pacers, Rockets, Clippers all finished with more wins than the Bucks. Now more than any time in recent memory we've seen that depth and cohesiveness is super important to a teams success. It's not just star power and forming Big 3's any more. You need to build a team.

Also, I'll push back on the notion that Barnes and Ingram are just average starters. They are both All-Star level players and Barnes in particular has the potential to be an All-NBA level guy.

If I'm doing a school yard pick of the Raptors and Bucks it goes:
1. Giannis
---
2. Barnes
----
3. Ingram
4. Turner
5. Quickley
----
6. Poeltl
7. Barrett
----
8. Portis
9. Kuzma
10. Dick

Barnes will never make an All-NBA team, I'm 100% sure of that

That could very well be true with how talented the league is, but he is still a former all star turning 24 in August. Likewise with Ingram who just be entering his prime at 28yo. It's one thing dislike how much they are going to be getting paid the next few years (entire starters actually) vs their actual production and skillset. It is still possible for everybody on the roster to improve including Poeltl who just wrapped up a career year across the board resulting in his extension.

Personally I don't like the make-up of our roster either but to say that we are guaranteed to be back in the lottery is just foolish. It's been beaten to death on these boards but despite spending 1.5 seasons together Quickley, Barnes and Barrett have barely played together and that number is even smaller once you include Poeltl.

[GiannisAnte34]

Would I be hard pressed?

Just last year the Pacers, Rockets, Clippers all finished with more wins than the Bucks. Now more than any time in recent memory we've seen that depth and cohesiveness is super important to a teams success. It's not just star power and forming Big 3's any more. You need to build a team.

Also, I'll push back on the notion that Barnes and Ingram are just average starters. They are both All-Star level players and Barnes in particular has the potential to be an All-NBA level guy.

If I'm doing a school yard pick of the Raptors and Bucks it goes:
1. Giannis
---
2. Barnes
----
3. Ingram
4. Turner
5. Quickley
----
6. Poeltl
7. Barrett
----
8. Portis
9. Kuzma
10. Dick

Barnes will never make an All-NBA team, I'm 100% sure of that

That could very well be true with how talented the league is, but he is still a former all star turning 24 in August. Likewise with Ingram who just be entering his prime at 28yo. It's one thing dislike how much they are going to be getting paid the next few years (entire starters actually) vs their actual production and skillset. It is still possible for everybody on the roster to improve including Poeltl who just wrapped up a career year across the board resulting in his extension.

Personally I don't like the make-up of our roster either but to say that we are guaranteed to be back in the lottery is just foolish. It's been beaten to death on these boards but despite spending 1.5 seasons together Quickley, Barnes and Barrett have barely played together and that number is even smaller once you include Poeltl.

and we should just grant that suddenly they're going to be healthy and on the court when they've proven otherwise? why?

[phanman]

bucks traded the following for dame:

jrue holiday
grayson allen
2028 unprotected pick swap
2029 unprotected 1st round pick
2030 unprotected pick swap

1st season 23/24 (73 games, 4 games playoffs) - lost in 1st round 4-2
2nd season 24/25 (58 games, 3 games playoffs) - lost in 1st round 4-1

stretched and waived summer 2025

oof, I still don’t know if i’d necessarily say it was a mistake in process. they weren’t going to win a chip keeping jrue. if they hadn’t made so many awful moves aside dame maybe could have worked

To add, the success of the Dame/Giannis pairing was also reliant on Khris returning to an all star level and balancing out the two. His injuries post chip were the real death blow to that championship core. I always thought of him as one of the best glue guys in the league who was talented enough to be an all star that is able/willing to take those late game shots.

[djsunyc]

even without middleton, dame and giannis never clicked like many thought they would.

[phanman]

Barnes will never make an All-NBA team, I'm 100% sure of that

That could very well be true with how talented the league is, but he is still a former all star turning 24 in August. Likewise with Ingram who just be entering his prime at 28yo. It's one thing dislike how much they are going to be getting paid the next few years (entire starters actually) vs their actual production and skillset. It is still possible for everybody on the roster to improve including Poeltl who just wrapped up a career year across the board resulting in his extension.

Personally I don't like the make-up of our roster either but to say that we are guaranteed to be back in the lottery is just foolish. It's been beaten to death on these boards but despite spending 1.5 seasons together Quickley, Barnes and Barrett have barely played together and that number is even smaller once you include Poeltl.

and we should just grant that suddenly they're going to be healthy and on the court when they've proven otherwise? why?

Because they are young and other than Ingram have no prior history of being injury prone? You do realize that we owned our pick in this draft and actively tried to tank down the stretch right?

It's not the front office's problem that Darko coached the team to some surprising wins down the stretch and we ended up with 30 wins. If we had been in the race for a potential playoff seed, you can bet your life savings that most of the core would have suited up. It was a throwaway season to develop the young guys (especially Dick) and potentially grab a high draft pick which ultimately failed.

[GiannisAnte34]

That could very well be true with how talented the league is, but he is still a former all star turning 24 in August. Likewise with Ingram who just be entering his prime at 28yo. It's one thing dislike how much they are going to be getting paid the next few years (entire starters actually) vs their actual production and skillset. It is still possible for everybody on the roster to improve including Poeltl who just wrapped up a career year across the board resulting in his extension.

Personally I don't like the make-up of our roster either but to say that we are guaranteed to be back in the lottery is just foolish. It's been beaten to death on these boards but despite spending 1.5 seasons together Quickley, Barnes and Barrett have barely played together and that number is even smaller once you include Poeltl.

and we should just grant that suddenly they're going to be healthy and on the court when they've proven otherwise? why?

Because they are young and other than Ingram have no prior history of being injury prone? You do realize that we owned our pick in this draft and actively tried to tank down the stretch right?

It's not the front office's problem that Darko coached the team to some surprising wins down the stretch and we ended up with 30 wins. If we had been in the race for a potential playoff seed, you can bet your life savings that most of the core would have suited up. It was a throwaway season to develop the young guys (especially Dick) and potentially grab a high draft pick which ultimately failed.

The fact is the Raps have made several win now moves and then finished 11th. Spin it however you want

IQ missed 63 games the past 2 seasons. RJ missed 48 games the past 2 seasons. Ingram missed 82 games the past 2 seasons.

Good luck with that. I have them finishing below 10th again and the Bucks somewhere 3-6

[phanman]

and we should just grant that suddenly they're going to be healthy and on the court when they've proven otherwise? why?

Because they are young and other than Ingram have no prior history of being injury prone? You do realize that we owned our pick in this draft and actively tried to tank down the stretch right?

It's not the front office's problem that Darko coached the team to some surprising wins down the stretch and we ended up with 30 wins. If we had been in the race for a potential playoff seed, you can bet your life savings that most of the core would have suited up. It was a throwaway season to develop the young guys (especially Dick) and potentially grab a high draft pick which ultimately failed.

The fact is the Raps have made several win now moves and then finished 11th. Spin it however you want

IQ missed 63 games the past 2 seasons. RJ missed 48 games the past 2 seasons. Ingram missed 82 games the past 2 seasons.

Good luck with that. I have them finishing below 10th again and the Bucks somewhere 3-6

Those win now moves you referenced were all done when we were still trying to compete with Pascal and OG on board, but I get it everybody is entitled to their own opinion. The Bucks finishing as high as 3rd would be surprising to say the least. Off the top of my head: Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Detroit, Atlanta are ahead of you guys with Indiana, Miami and even Philly all able to have successful seasons as well.

[GiannisAnte34]

Because they are young and other than Ingram have no prior history of being injury prone? You do realize that we owned our pick in this draft and actively tried to tank down the stretch right?

It's not the front office's problem that Darko coached the team to some surprising wins down the stretch and we ended up with 30 wins. If we had been in the race for a potential playoff seed, you can bet your life savings that most of the core would have suited up. It was a throwaway season to develop the young guys (especially Dick) and potentially grab a high draft pick which ultimately failed.

The fact is the Raps have made several win now moves and then finished 11th. Spin it however you want

IQ missed 63 games the past 2 seasons. RJ missed 48 games the past 2 seasons. Ingram missed 82 games the past 2 seasons.

Good luck with that. I have them finishing below 10th again and the Bucks somewhere 3-6

Those win now moves you referenced were all done when we were still trying to compete with Pascal and OG on board, but I get it everybody is entitled to their own opinion. The Bucks finishing as high as 3rd would be surprising to say the least. Off the top of my head: Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Detroit, Atlanta are ahead of you guys with Indiana, Miami and even Philly all able to have successful seasons as well.

How did the Raps do with Siakam, OG, FVV, GTJ, Scottie? oh 9th? I'm sure this version is better

[phanman]

The fact is the Raps have made several win now moves and then finished 11th. Spin it however you want

IQ missed 63 games the past 2 seasons. RJ missed 48 games the past 2 seasons. Ingram missed 82 games the past 2 seasons.

Good luck with that. I have them finishing below 10th again and the Bucks somewhere 3-6

Those win now moves you referenced were all done when we were still trying to compete with Pascal and OG on board, but I get it everybody is entitled to their own opinion. The Bucks finishing as high as 3rd would be surprising to say the least. Off the top of my head: Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Detroit, Atlanta are ahead of you guys with Indiana, Miami and even Philly all able to have successful seasons as well.

How did the Raps do with Siakam, OG, FVV, GTJ, Scottie? oh 9th? I'm sure this version is better

That doesn't have anything to do with the current discussion of this version of the team but that 2023 squad was full of chemistry issues with Fred alienating the younger core lead by Scottie and the team as a whole tuning out Nick. Despite all that we still finished in a tie with Atlanta in which they won via tiebreaker and lost in the play-in after DeMar and his daughter exacted revenge.

We did technically win more once we trade for Poeltl going 15-11 down the stretch (26-30 once we traded him) and positioned ourselves to host that play-in game vs Chicago.

[MrBigShot]

I feel bad for dame man. Between his divorce, achilles tear and now getting waived it's been a rough 2 years for him.

He just got paid 110 MILLION to go away. He'll be fine.

He already had more $$ than he could ever spend in a lifetime, there's more to life than money.

[GiannisAnte34]

Those win now moves you referenced were all done when we were still trying to compete with Pascal and OG on board, but I get it everybody is entitled to their own opinion. The Bucks finishing as high as 3rd would be surprising to say the least. Off the top of my head: Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Detroit, Atlanta are ahead of you guys with Indiana, Miami and even Philly all able to have successful seasons as well.

How did the Raps do with Siakam, OG, FVV, GTJ, Scottie? oh 9th? I'm sure this version is better

That doesn't have anything to do with the current discussion of this version of the team but that 2023 squad was full of chemistry issues with Fred alienating the younger core lead by Scottie and the team as a whole tuning out Nick. Despite all that we still finished in a tie with Atlanta in which they won via tiebreaker and lost in the play-in after DeMar and his daughter exacted revenge.

We did technically win more once we trade for Poeltl going 15-11 down the stretch (26-30 once we traded him) and positioned ourselves to host that play-in game vs Chicago.

This Raptors team has spacing issues since most of your starters can’t shoot 3s. IQ has trouble finishing at the rim and isn’t a great playmaker either. Multiple starters on your team want to get to the exact same spots. I’m sorry but those with glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

[Thaddy]

It would be hilarious if he goes back to Portland. That would be a heist of a trade for the blazers.

[Celts17Pride]

It would be hilarious if he goes back to Portland. That would be a heist of a trade for the blazers.

Lillard going to end up in Boston. Book it!

[Jordan45822]

Read on Twitter

[Riverwalk2021]

Dame, please come to Boston and serve a **** sandwich to the Bucks for a second time.

[Scalabrine]

I'd argue that Giannis and Turner are better than any player on the Raptors which has a huge implication in itself on the floor and ceiling of those teams. Giannis isn't just better than anyone on the Raptors, he's an MVP level player in his prime. You'd be hard pressed to name teams led by an MVP caliber player in their prime finish behind a team full of average starter level guys, and the Raptors are really not an exception.

Would I be hard pressed?

Just last year the Pacers, Rockets, Clippers all finished with more wins than the Bucks. Now more than any time in recent memory we've seen that depth and cohesiveness is super important to a teams success. It's not just star power and forming Big 3's any more. You need to build a team.

Also, I'll push back on the notion that Barnes and Ingram are just average starters. They are both All-Star level players and Barnes in particular has the potential to be an All-NBA level guy.

If I'm doing a school yard pick of the Raptors and Bucks it goes:
1. Giannis
---
2. Barnes
----
3. Ingram
4. Turner
5. Quickley
----
6. Poeltl
7. Barrett
----
8. Portis
9. Kuzma
10. Dick

Barnes will never make an All-NBA team, I'm 100% sure of that

alright, well thats not something you can possibly be 100% sure of unless you have a time machine so lets stop with the extreme hyperbole here.

[Scalabrine]

How did the Raps do with Siakam, OG, FVV, GTJ, Scottie? oh 9th? I'm sure this version is better

That doesn't have anything to do with the current discussion of this version of the team but that 2023 squad was full of chemistry issues with Fred alienating the younger core lead by Scottie and the team as a whole tuning out Nick. Despite all that we still finished in a tie with Atlanta in which they won via tiebreaker and lost in the play-in after DeMar and his daughter exacted revenge.

We did technically win more once we trade for Poeltl going 15-11 down the stretch (26-30 once we traded him) and positioned ourselves to host that play-in game vs Chicago.

This Raptors team has spacing issues since most of your starters can’t shoot 3s. IQ has trouble finishing at the rim and isn’t a great playmaker either. Multiple starters on your team want to get to the exact same spots. I’m sorry but those with glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

Do you not see the irony in you saying this???? Have a little self awareness.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Imagine Orlando making it to the conference finals and having the luxury to activate a fully healthy Dame for 15-20m oof

[John Murdoch]

Bostons timeline does def lineup with Dame but id rather see him sign with Orlando

[MavsDirk41]

It would be hilarious if he goes back to Portland. That would be a heist of a trade for the blazers.

Lillard going to end up in Boston. Book it!

I think he ends up in Miami