Bill Simmons RIPS the Raptors roster and salaries. (UPDATE Zach Lowe & Rob Mahoney go in on Raptors)

[djsunyc]

Where’s Kendrick Perkins? Simmons is a certified raptors hater, got into with Perkins when Perkins suggested raptors could be a 6th seed next year.

this is why simmons is going to be even more insufferable when it comes to us...stupid sh t with perk.

[Boogie!]

Where’s Kendrick Perkins? Simmons is a certified raptors hater, got into with Perkins when Perkins suggested raptors could be a 6th seed next year.

this is why simmons is going to be even more insufferable when it comes to us...stupid sh t with perk.

It’s okay… Halliburton got called overrated ended up in the finals. Hopefully the raptors have something to prove and actually step up next year.

[S.W.A.N]

I legit don't get the hate people have for Bill Simmons. He's entertaining and honestly doesn't even take his own opinions too seriously. There's nothing he said there that was way off base.

That's because you look at his as entertainer... That is where his value is.

Its his basketball knowledge and opinions we cant' stand. He is biased as hell, but admits it. I don't mind him, you just have to listen to everything he says with a massive filter. He says a lot of entertaining nonsense

[ishoy123]

I legit don't get the hate people have for Bill Simmons. He's entertaining and honestly doesn't even take his own opinions too seriously. There's nothing he said there that was way off base.

That's because you look at his as entertainer... That is where his value is.

Its his basketball knowledge and opinions we cant' stand. He is biased as hell, but admits it. I don't mind him, you just have to listen to everything he says with a massive filter. He says a lot of entertaining nonsense

I find his takes much more informed than the rest of his Ringer crew outside of Zach Lowe

[Dalek]

Bobby has to go too, that Poeltl contract is just disgusting and we can't blame Masai for that. Hopefully Ed Rogers cleans house.

Why is it disgusting?

A center in his prime who averages 15 and 10 on 63%fg with elite defense making 25m a year on average until he is 34. That's pretty much on par with any most good starting centers.

Jarrett Allan is on a 4 year 100m deal which expires in 2025 and make no mistake but he will be making at least 30m in his next deal.

Claxton is on a 4 year 97m deal.

Hartenstein is on a 3 year 87m deal.

Turner just signed a 4 year 107m deal.

I think the ultimately question is why are the Raptors, an unproven non-contending team extending a player in his age 30 year? Where is the rush to do this before we have even made the playoffs?

Poeltl has a player option in 2026-27 and we basically locked him up without even seeing if this whole experiment makes sense. Now we have Poeltl on the books until age 34. If he has a drop off in play or injury this year, then we are kind of saddled with his contract because we locked in an ageing C with no floor spacing ability. At least Myles Turner can offer some offense and played in a Finals. Poeltl hasn't even been in the playoffs since 2019.

Kevin Pelton put it best, Toronto assumes all the risk with little reward other than getting a guy we like.

But this is emblematic of the Raptors. They just love early extensions hoping they get their guy locked up on good deals (Barnes on a super max, IQ for $35m a season).

[LarSiN]

I couldn't begin to care about what that windbag BOS Homer has to say about a team he's always hated. I'm legit pleased he has to watch his team suffer this year.

[MoneyBall]

I legit don't get the hate people have for Bill Simmons. He's entertaining and honestly doesn't even take his own opinions too seriously. There's nothing he said there that was way off base.

That's because you look at his as entertainer... That is where his value is.

Its his basketball knowledge and opinions we cant' stand. He is biased as hell, but admits it. I don't mind him, you just have to listen to everything he says with a massive filter. He says a lot of entertaining nonsense

I don't necessarily agree with his take on our salaries, but what he said was far from outrageous. Ingram is a gamble, and his contract is far from being a bargain. IQ's contract may work out, but right now it doesn't look like great value. I don't know, I kind of see Simmons' point even if I don't totally agree with it.

[LarSiN]

Bobby has to go too, that Poeltl contract is just disgusting and we can't blame Masai for that. Hopefully Ed Rogers cleans house.

19.5 this year
19.5 next year

Then when it does hit 26 in 2 years, the cap his also jumped significantly. Its actually a pretty smart contract imo

[S.W.A.N]

Bobby has to go too, that Poeltl contract is just disgusting and we can't blame Masai for that. Hopefully Ed Rogers cleans house.

19.5 this year
19.5 next year

Then when it does hit 26 in 2 years, the cap his also jumped significantly. Its actually a pretty smart contract imo

Hey, don't interrupt a perfectly crazed rant with solid logic!

[Tripod]

Bobby has to go too, that Poeltl contract is just disgusting and we can't blame Masai for that. Hopefully Ed Rogers cleans house.

Why is it disgusting?

A center in his prime who averages 15 and 10 on 63%fg with elite defense making 25m a year on average until he is 34. That's pretty much on par with any most good starting centers.

Jarrett Allan is on a 4 year 100m deal which expires in 2025 and make no mistake but he will be making at least 30m in his next deal.

Claxton is on a 4 year 97m deal.

Hartenstein is on a 3 year 87m deal.

Turner just signed a 4 year 107m deal.

I think the ultimately question is why are the Raptors, an unproven non-contending team extending a player in his age 30 year? Where is the rush to do this before we have even made the playoffs?

Poeltl has a player option in 2026-27 and we basically locked him up without even seeing if this whole experiment makes sense. Now we have Poeltl on the books until age 34. If he has a drop off in play or injury this year, then we are kind of saddled with his contract because we locked in an ageing C with no floor spacing ability. At least Myles Turner can offer some offense and played in a Finals. Poeltl hasn't even been in the playoffs since 2019.

Kevin Pelton put it best, Toronto assumes all the risk with little reward other than getting a guy we like.

But this is emblematic of the Raptors. They just love early extensions hoping they get their guy locked up on good deals (Barnes on a super max, IQ for $35m a season).

This is foolish.

You lock him up because you believe he will be good for the next 4 years, possibly 5. He has shown no signs of decline.

Turner can provide offense, at times. Yeah he played in the finals, do we ignore he shot 12-39 the last 5 games?

Barnes was ROTY and the 1st All Star from his draft class. He was always getting that contract. To think otherwise is silly.

IQ is 32.5 and his contract remains flat. His healthy and us sitting him trying to tank is the only reason that contract is not viewed favorably.

[Scase]

Aren't we currently 1.4mil below the 1st apron? What is our path to getting under the tax?

Likely need to make a move with RJ or one of the smaller deals on the roster.

You do nothing now...see how the team plays and how the season shares out.

We could be buyers at the deadline where we consolidate and take on a little less $.

We could be sellers to take on a little less.

No need to rush into anything now. The amount we are over is easy to get under later in the season.

Problem is, that under Bobby's watch every time we've had to do that, it's cost us picks or pick positioning. So I'm not a fan of waiting until the absolute last minute when the entire league has you bent over a barrel. Notice how teams like the Pacers and Celtics are doing it now rather than waiting?

It's playing with fire when we really don't need to.

[Scase]

The Raps have a full 15 man roster with solid depth and with a little maneuvering during the season, will be under the tax. Isn't that the goal for a non title contender?

In the end, if they win, they will shut people up. That's the only way. People dumped on the Pistons and Magic for years until they didn't. People dumped on the Raptors with Lowry/DD until they didn't.

Aren't we currently 1.4mil below the 1st apron? What is our path to getting under the tax?

I have us 500k over the first apron, assuming we sign Martin to an NBA deal. But worth noting the apron is calculated differently from the tax, we are about 2M over the tax line.

2M is pretty easy to move off of, though I personally would be doing so during the summer to reduce the cost of doing so. There is some argument for not doing so - if we have a successful season, some of our players might be hitting incentives, in which case the move to get under the tax would need to be more significant, so making a smaller move now and then having to make another later could be doubly expensive. In other words, if they are going to be in the tax, might as well be IN the tax.

Thing is, MLSE has never gone into the tax, aside from the year we made an all in push for the chip. So it stands to reason that there is zero chance we end up in the tax by seasons end, so to prevent us from being in a position of weakness at the negotiation table, we should be trying to get below it prior to the deadline. Last thing we need is to burn picks just to save money again.

[earthtone]

Likely need to make a move with RJ or one of the smaller deals on the roster.

You do nothing now...see how the team plays and how the season shares out.

We could be buyers at the deadline where we consolidate and take on a little less $.

We could be sellers to take on a little less.

No need to rush into anything now. The amount we are over is easy to get under later in the season.

Problem is, that under Bobby's watch every time we've had to do that, it's cost us picks or pick positioning. So I'm not a fan of waiting until the absolute last minute when the entire league has you bent over a barrel. Notice how teams like the Pacers and Celtics are doing it now rather than waiting?

It's playing with fire when we really don't need to.

Teams like the Pacers & Celtics also just lost their best players to injury, so I'm not sure that's the best comparison for our situation

I don't see the harm in waiting, you never know what opportunities will be available later in the season and whose value will increase between now and February.

[Scase]

You do nothing now...see how the team plays and how the season shares out.

We could be buyers at the deadline where we consolidate and take on a little less $.

We could be sellers to take on a little less.

No need to rush into anything now. The amount we are over is easy to get under later in the season.

Problem is, that under Bobby's watch every time we've had to do that, it's cost us picks or pick positioning. So I'm not a fan of waiting until the absolute last minute when the entire league has you bent over a barrel. Notice how teams like the Pacers and Celtics are doing it now rather than waiting?

It's playing with fire when we really don't need to.

Teams like the Pacers & Celtics also just lost their best players to injury, so I'm not sure that's the best comparison for our situation

I don't see the harm in waiting, you never know what opportunities will be available later in the season and whose value will increase between now and February.

Why they did it isn't really relevant, they understand that a team that isn't going to be contending shouldn't be burning money like that, that's the crux of it.

I'm not saying that a trade needs to be made like right this minute, but based on this teams history, we're better off getting ahead of it and being proactive as being reactive seems to have burned us many times before. We've also learned more than a few times that typically the trades available at the deadline arent much different, except at that point you are directly competing with more teams trying to make moves.

[earthtone]

Problem is, that under Bobby's watch every time we've had to do that, it's cost us picks or pick positioning. So I'm not a fan of waiting until the absolute last minute when the entire league has you bent over a barrel. Notice how teams like the Pacers and Celtics are doing it now rather than waiting?

It's playing with fire when we really don't need to.

Teams like the Pacers & Celtics also just lost their best players to injury, so I'm not sure that's the best comparison for our situation

I don't see the harm in waiting, you never know what opportunities will be available later in the season and whose value will increase between now and February.

Why they did it isn't really relevant, they understand that a team that isn't going to be contending shouldn't be burning money like that, that's the crux of it.

I'm not saying that a trade needs to be made like right this minute, but based on this teams history, we're better off getting ahead of it and being proactive as being reactive seems to have burned us many times before. We've also learned more than a few times that typically the trades available at the deadline arent much different, except at that point you are directly competing with more teams trying to make moves.

If you don't think that losing your best player to an Achilles injury is relevant to how you plan your season, I'm not really sure what else to say

[Shakril]

Where’s Kendrick Perkins? Simmons is a certified raptors hater, got into with Perkins when Perkins suggested raptors could be a 6th seed next year.

this is why simmons is going to be even more insufferable when it comes to us...stupid sh t with perk.

It’s okay… Halliburton got called overrated ended up in the finals. Hopefully the raptors have something to prove and actually step up next year.

No no, thats entirely different. Haliburton was called overrated by his own peers - by other players.

Thats different than some hack.

[everdiso]

1. Simmons is a dummy
2. Simmons is a dummy
3. Simmons is just upset his dreams of a celtics dynasty are shattered
4. Simmons is even more upset his dynasty celts will finish below the raps
5. Simmons is a dummy

[RoteSchroder]

Bobby has to go too, that Poeltl contract is just disgusting and we can't blame Masai for that. Hopefully Ed Rogers cleans house.

Why is it disgusting?

A center in his prime who averages 15 and 10 on 63%fg with elite defense making 25m a year on average until he is 34. That's pretty much on par with any most good starting centers.

Jarrett Allan is on a 4 year 100m deal which expires in 2025 and make no mistake but he will be making at least 30m in his next deal.

Claxton is on a 4 year 97m deal.

Hartenstein is on a 3 year 87m deal.

Turner just signed a 4 year 107m deal.

I think the ultimately question is why are the Raptors, an unproven non-contending team extending a player in his age 30 year? Where is the rush to do this before we have even made the playoffs?

Poeltl has a player option in 2026-27 and we basically locked him up without even seeing if this whole experiment makes sense. Now we have Poeltl on the books until age 34. If he has a drop off in play or injury this year, then we are kind of saddled with his contract because we locked in an ageing C with no floor spacing ability. At least Myles Turner can offer some offense and played in a Finals. Poeltl hasn't even been in the playoffs since 2019.

Kevin Pelton put it best, Toronto assumes all the risk with little reward other than getting a guy we like.

But this is emblematic of the Raptors. They just love early extensions hoping they get their guy locked up on good deals (Barnes on a super max, IQ for $35m a season).

Locking up IQ earlier at what he initially wanted (20-25 M) would have been way better than waiting until the end of the season.

Barnes they hyped up and gave him the keys for no good reason.

Poeltl’s contract is ok assuming he maintains his level of play (in prime years) and he now has long-term value in the event of a trade compared to a player that can just walk after a year.

The risk is losing him for nothing if he enters FA (or a bidding war occurs) and/or the team needs to blow it up and Poeltl decides to take his chances in FA rather than extending and being traded.

In other words, the risk is a FVV, Siakam, OG situation

[ciueli]

So you don't think Can taxes come into play unless it's for UFA'S? Come on.

It worked pretty well with Gary Trent, he wanted a big contract, we said no, he signed on a minimum contract and he's probably not getting much more than minimums the rest of his career. We have plenty of other players that can fill his spot on the roster, that's one example of when they made the right move instead of just coughing up the money to keep him.

And really? Davion? He was a cap dump last summer coming off a 5.3pt seasons. It would have been asinine to let IQ go and put Davion in as our starting PG.

Yes Davion had a bounce back year, but what he did in Miami is not sustainable. He is not going to shoot 44.7% from 3 again. And he was still a 10 pt player averaging less assists.than IQ despite playing 4 minutes more a game. You are comparing a starter to a backup.

Davion will be a starter in Miami. Did you watch them in the playoffs? He was playing starter minutes and averaged 15PPG while shooting even better on 3s than he did for them during the regular season. When push came to shove and they needed to play their best players, Davion was one of those players, maybe even the 3rd best player on their team. The league is changing and defence is becoming more important, meanwhile our team has three below average defenders at the starting 1, 2, and 3 spots, somehow I don't think that will end well for us.

It's easy to find 1 example like GTJ for anything.

Maybe, just maybe, they traded and WANTED IQ so there was never a chance they would just let him walk and put Davion as our starting PG. To pretend that was an option is silly.

And yes, Davion played great for the Heat especially in the playoffs. But AGAIN, it's not sustainable. He isn't going to shoot 50% from 3 like he did in the playoffs.

And it's nothing against Davion...I liked him here. He helped create our defensive identity. He just isn't close to going as good as IQ. Hell, if he was, he would have just gotten more than 12 million a year.

Is IQ a better player than Davion? Sure, but is he almost 3x better? Because he's making almost 3x what Davion is making. Maybe if we had other solid contributors on cheap contract and just needed a decent PG to turn us into contenders I'd understand the overpay to fill a position of need at an important time, but that not the case. Basically every PG in the same price range as IQ has been an All-Star or All-NBA, or All-Defence, he just sticks out because he has none of those accolades but is paid like he does.

[mihaic]

It worked pretty well with Gary Trent, he wanted a big contract, we said no, he signed on a minimum contract and he's probably not getting much more than minimums the rest of his career. We have plenty of other players that can fill his spot on the roster, that's one example of when they made the right move instead of just coughing up the money to keep him.



Davion will be a starter in Miami. Did you watch them in the playoffs? He was playing starter minutes and averaged 15PPG while shooting even better on 3s than he did for them during the regular season. When push came to shove and they needed to play their best players, Davion was one of those players, maybe even the 3rd best player on their team. The league is changing and defence is becoming more important, meanwhile our team has three below average defenders at the starting 1, 2, and 3 spots, somehow I don't think that will end well for us.

It's easy to find 1 example like GTJ for anything.

Maybe, just maybe, they traded and WANTED IQ so there was never a chance they would just let him walk and put Davion as our starting PG. To pretend that was an option is silly.

And yes, Davion played great for the Heat especially in the playoffs. But AGAIN, it's not sustainable. He isn't going to shoot 50% from 3 like he did in the playoffs.

And it's nothing against Davion...I liked him here. He helped create our defensive identity. He just isn't close to going as good as IQ. Hell, if he was, he would have just gotten more than 12 million a year.

Is IQ a better player than Davion? Sure, but is he almost 3x better? Because he's making almost 3x what Davion is making. Maybe if we had other solid contributors on cheap contract and just needed a decent PG to turn us into contenders I'd understand the overpay to fill a position of need at an important time, but that not the case. Basically every PG in the same price range as IQ has been an All-Star or All-NBA, or All-Defence, he just sticks out because he has none of those accolades but is paid like he does.

I am of the opinion we should pay even more than we paid IQ and get a real elite PG.

I agree that IQ is overpaid.