Moderators: UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior
Knightro wrote:eyriq wrote:Playoffs exist just fine. I just don’t need to pretend the foundation is shaky until someone wins a second-round series to feel validated. Some of us can spot a good build without needing the parade first.
How about a first-round series?
eyriq wrote: His trades have yielded value
eyriq wrote:Sure. Let’s win one. But needing that first before recognizing what’s clearly building is just delayed honesty.
eyriq wrote:Status (End of 2025):
Magic: Ascending Playoff Team
Rockets: Title Contender
Pistons: Ascending Playoff Team
Thunder: NBA Champions
byeganyo wrote:eyriq wrote:Sure. Let’s win one. But needing that first before recognizing what’s clearly building is just delayed honesty.
I'm sorry, but that's lemming mentality.
What if we fail? Passing a verdict before the event happens is not being real or honest, it's being hopeful. You can be as hopeful as you want and still be wrong as you were the past season, when you predcited 50 wins and 2nd round playoff exit.
You can be right one time, in the wrong another, that's life. Dont try to act like you were right all along especially before the season has unfolded. So far things look different, great, lets not try to rewrite the past.
Bensational wrote:eyriq wrote:Status (End of 2025):
Magic: Ascending Playoff Team
Rockets: Title Contender
Pistons: Ascending Playoff Team
Thunder: NBA Champions
TBF, Houston haven’t won a playoff series yet and they’ve only made the playoffs once. They haven’t proven themselves any more than the Magic yet, so can they be declared a title contender?
pepe1991 wrote:Did you see their roster?
Amen Thompson
Vleet
Durant
Jabari
Segun
Sheppard
Cam
Finney Smith
Tari
Capela
Adams
Whitmore
Aaron Holiday
Their deep bench is better than Bucks starters.
They won 52 games last year with that fool Green milking 27% usage rate for 54% TS and playing matador defense & 6'6 Brooks bricking his portion of offense for mediocre 55% TS.
Now they replaced it with 27 ppg , 64% TS of Durant and still got Finney Smith ( 10-ish ppg, 60% TS).
Amen and Segun are 22-23 years old (Banchero's age), they will get better at least more experienced. Jabari and Tari should be bit better, Sheppard should get much better ( 3# Pick, just turned 21).
Btw they still have so many picks:
- 2027 unprotected Suns pick
- 2027 unprotected Nets pick swap
- 2029 unprotected pick swap between better pick of Suns/ Dallas
- all own picks but 2026 , that one is subject of swap between Wizards and OKC (2027- 2032)
People kind a forget how elite Durant still was. From offensive POV, he was top 3-4 player in nba. Literally, with him they were in fight for 8-9 seed and playin, without him they were on pace to become worst team in nba history (15% win rate )
Bensational wrote:pepe1991 wrote:Did you see their roster?
Amen Thompson
Vleet
Durant
Jabari
Segun
Sheppard
Cam
Finney Smith
Tari
Capela
Adams
Whitmore
Aaron Holiday
Their deep bench is better than Bucks starters.
They won 52 games last year with that fool Green milking 27% usage rate for 54% TS and playing matador defense & 6'6 Brooks bricking his portion of offense for mediocre 55% TS.
Now they replaced it with 27 ppg , 64% TS of Durant and still got Finney Smith ( 10-ish ppg, 60% TS).
Amen and Segun are 22-23 years old (Banchero's age), they will get better at least more experienced. Jabari and Tari should be bit better, Sheppard should get much better ( 3# Pick, just turned 21).
Btw they still have so many picks:
- 2027 unprotected Suns pick
- 2027 unprotected Nets pick swap
- 2029 unprotected pick swap between better pick of Suns/ Dallas
- all own picks but 2026 , that one is subject of swap between Wizards and OKC (2027- 2032)
People kind a forget how elite Durant still was. From offensive POV, he was top 3-4 player in nba. Literally, with him they were in fight for 8-9 seed and playin, without him they were on pace to become worst team in nba history (15% win rate )
Yeah but, it’s still Kevin Durant. As great as he is he hasn’t won anything without Steph carrying him there. He’s only been to the finals once without Steph. No matter how much talent Durant has around him the teams don’t win and he then destroys their prospects for years after. Maybe Durant will prove me wrong this year but I doubt it, he’s on the wrong side of time now.
And while the cache of picks is great, Boston is the only team to add high lottery picks to an already competitive team and not lost a step or wasted the asset. Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody are recent examples. Darko is an old example. Philly having a top 3 pick this offseason and they weren’t able to flip it for a win-now upgrade. Houston is already sitting on Reed Sheppard and they’ll struggle to integrate him unless he makes some rapid developments this summer.
As promising as things look, they could very quickly burn through those assets if they aren’t managed well. Don’t get me wrong, I see all the reasons why people would be high on them, I just also see plenty of reasons to be skeptical. Then again I’ve doubted Houston’s plans since the addition of FVV and they’re crushing it, so what do I know?
(50% TS... )
pepe1991 wrote:Bensational wrote:
Yeah but, it’s still Kevin Durant. As great as he is he hasn’t won anything without Steph carrying him there. He’s only been to the finals once without Steph.
Is that fair tho?
Durant has incredible 101-69 record in playoffs. That is 59% win rate. Lebron won 4 titles with 63% win rate. Shaq had identical playoff win rate as Durant but nobody talks about it because distribution of those wins led to more titles.
Durant played 6 nba Conference finals. Went to finals 4 times. Won 2 titles. Would be 3 if him and Klay didn't got hurt in finals. In first trip to finals he was 23. And he still was up there with Lebron. Harden choked out, Westbrook shot 13% for 3
Was best player on both teams that won title. For all "joining 73 wins Warriors team" argument there is simple question- did 73 wins team won title? No. Cavs blew them up in game 5 and game 6 and choked them out in second half of game 7. Curry was invisible and he couldn't even match Kyrie let alone Lebron.
Just crazy to consider, game 7 who was Warriors scoring leader? Green. What Curry did? 17 points on 6-19 FG, 2 assists, 4 TOs. Guy was very bad especially since there was push for him to make him League's face. To have a series where guy has 30 turnovers to 26 assists as playmaker and gets outscored and outplayed by Kyrie.
Also Durant's legacy and Giannis legacy would look lot different if there wasn't this
eyriq wrote:Knightro wrote:eyriq wrote:Playoffs exist just fine. I just don’t need to pretend the foundation is shaky until someone wins a second-round series to feel validated. Some of us can spot a good build without needing the parade first.
How about a first-round series?
Sure. Let’s win one. But needing that first before recognizing what’s clearly building is just delayed honesty.
Bensational wrote:pepe1991 wrote:Bensational wrote:
Yeah but, it’s still Kevin Durant. As great as he is he hasn’t won anything without Steph carrying him there. He’s only been to the finals once without Steph.
Is that fair tho?
Durant has incredible 101-69 record in playoffs. That is 59% win rate. Lebron won 4 titles with 63% win rate. Shaq had identical playoff win rate as Durant but nobody talks about it because distribution of those wins led to more titles.
Durant played 6 nba Conference finals. Went to finals 4 times. Won 2 titles. Would be 3 if him and Klay didn't got hurt in finals. In first trip to finals he was 23. And he still was up there with Lebron. Harden choked out, Westbrook shot 13% for 3
Was best player on both teams that won title. For all "joining 73 wins Warriors team" argument there is simple question- did 73 wins team won title? No. Cavs blew them up in game 5 and game 6 and choked them out in second half of game 7. Curry was invisible and he couldn't even match Kyrie let alone Lebron.
Just crazy to consider, game 7 who was Warriors scoring leader? Green. What Curry did? 17 points on 6-19 FG, 2 assists, 4 TOs. Guy was very bad especially since there was push for him to make him League's face. To have a series where guy has 30 turnovers to 26 assists as playmaker and gets outscored and outplayed by Kyrie.
Come on, you're not seriously trying to slander Curry's name when the guy won championships TWICE without Durant's help.
The Warriors had already won a title before they became a 73 win team. Steph was a champion before Durant, with Durant, and after Durant. Durant has only ever been a champion if Steph and the rest of the Warriors carried him there. They didn't need him. Even when Durant got injured, Steph was 2 wins shy of getting another championship without Durant's help. He definitely contributed, but there's 2 championships that prove Durant wasn't a necessary piece to GSW's success.Also Durant's legacy and Giannis legacy would look lot different if there wasn't this
Yeah man - this is just another example of why Durant isn't a winner in my books. Plenty of games are won and lost by buzzer beaters - Kawhi took Toronto past Philly with a lucky rim-rolling buzzer beater - we don't give Embiid championship props because of that. Durant got his shot and, he blew it. It's that simple. There's no point being the best guy on the court if, when the game is on the line, you forget where your feet are. How many thousands of shots has he practiced, so that in that very moment he wouldn't make that mistake? But he did, and that's what keeps him a rung beneath the actual championship franchise players in my books - unless he proves otherwise.
All I see for Durant are excuses why he didn't win, while the actual winners have reasons for why they did win. Steph makes tough shots from anywhere on the court. Giannis is unstoppable in the paint and a menace on defence. Kawhi is a freaking robot. LeBron is in GOAT conversations. And Durant's excuses have either chased away every star player that he's teamed up with, or been a reason for him to run off with his tail between his legs instead of actually trying to build a winner.
It's weird, cos I actually like Durant's game, and I've seen nothing substantial from him to make me dislike him as a person, but his inability to take responsibility for hardship and persevere through it really takes a lot of the shine off his game for me.
The Warriors had already won a title before they became a 73 win team
Plenty of games are won and lost by buzzer beaters - Kawhi took Toronto past Philly with a lucky rim-rolling buzzer beater - we don't give Embiid championship props because of that. Durant got his shot and, he blew it. It's that simple.
. And he only won because Durant and Klay got hurt.eyriq wrote:byeganyo wrote:eyriq wrote:Sure. Let’s win one. But needing that first before recognizing what’s clearly building is just delayed honesty.
I'm sorry, but that's lemming mentality.
What if we fail? Passing a verdict before the event happens is not being real or honest, it's being hopeful. You can be as hopeful as you want and still be wrong as you were the past season, when you predcited 50 wins and 2nd round playoff exit.
You can be right one time, in the wrong another, that's life. Dont try to act like you were right all along especially before the season has unfolded. So far things look different, great, lets not try to rewrite the past.
Funny to call it lemming mentality when I’m the one backing a trend and you’re clinging to fear of being wrong. I’m not rewriting anything, I’m just reading what’s clearly unfolding.
byeganyo wrote:eyriq wrote:byeganyo wrote:
I'm sorry, but that's lemming mentality.
What if we fail? Passing a verdict before the event happens is not being real or honest, it's being hopeful. You can be as hopeful as you want and still be wrong as you were the past season, when you predcited 50 wins and 2nd round playoff exit.
You can be right one time, in the wrong another, that's life. Dont try to act like you were right all along especially before the season has unfolded. So far things look different, great, lets not try to rewrite the past.
Funny to call it lemming mentality when I’m the one backing a trend and you’re clinging to fear of being wrong. I’m not rewriting anything, I’m just reading what’s clearly unfolding.
I dont care if im wrong or right, i dont need some "i told you so" points that apparently you value highly. Id be happy if we win the title, but this weltman was mastermind all along talk is just invitation for confrontation.
This is a result oriented business and the results so far havent backed him up, this is the reason he made moves this summer - do you think acquiring KCP and trading him after one year was another 3d chess move? So if we succeed it will be becuase he changed and gambled and the gamble paid off, but this is yet to be seen. Nothing that happened in the past affirms your narrative, sorry.
pepe1991 wrote:The Warriors had already won a title before they became a 73 win team
They did, but you forgot how.
Cavs starting 5:
Matthew Dellavedova
Tristan Thompson
Iman Shumpert
Mozgov
Lebron
Cavs bench: Jones and JR Smith
Missing players due injuries: Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving.
Steph is one of my all time favorite players. But Steph is 4 times NBA champion, one time finals MVP. Steph didn't have amazing finals up until 2022. That's why he didn't win finals MVP in 2015, 2017 and 2018.
KD only won title playing along side 3 all stars. That's always argument.
