Official Trade Thread Part XLVII

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, these days, the position of "power forward" has mostly gone away. Mostly, teams just have two "forwards", with one maybe being a bit bigger than the other. Ideally, your bigger "forward" has enough girth to match up with the handful of true power forwards that still remain, like Giannis and Randle. That's what makes Jalen Williams such a useful player. He is built like a tank and has a 7'-2.25" wingspan, so he can guard those bigger guys while still playing like a versatile wing on offense.

I agree that management probably doesn't perceive that we have some massive hole at the PF position for the long term. I think both Bilal and Kyshawn have the length to guard "power forwards" once they add a little more heft. But since both guys are still a little light in the loafers, I wouldn't mind swapping Kispert for a bigger veteran forward to help balance the roster a bit. I brought up Kispert for Jonathan Isaac a while back. I thought it made sense for both teams.

You might want to check Urban Dictionary or similar slang dictionary for what "light in the loafers" means.

Yeah, these days, the position of "power forward" has mostly gone away. Mostly, teams just have two "forwards", with one maybe being a bit bigger than the other. Ideally, your bigger "forward" has enough girth to match up with the handful of true power forwards that still remain, like Giannis and Randle. That's what makes Jalen Williams such a useful player. He is built like a tank and has a 7'-2.25" wingspan, so he can guard those bigger guys while still playing like a versatile wing on offense.

I agree that management probably doesn't perceive that we have some massive hole at the PF position for the long term. I think both Bilal and Kyshawn have the length to guard "power forwards" once they add a little more heft. But since both guys are still a little light in the loafers, I wouldn't mind swapping Kispert for a bigger veteran forward to help balance the roster a bit. I brought up Kispert for Jonathan Isaac a while back. I thought it made sense for both teams.

You might want to check Urban Dictionary or similar slang dictionary for what "light in the loafers" means.

LOL. Didn’t even catch that…

https://youtu.be/2OKwRsnWO84?si=sRSDdDhlUwaHqzeU

https://youtu.be/JKXFmGwislo?si=WVMuZp_8yE2Yk6Sv

[Jay81]

Why am I hearing rumors that we are trying to trade for kuminga?

I’d do it for kispert and cjm

[Jay81]

[Benjammin]

Why am I hearing rumors that we are trying to trade for kuminga?

I’d do it for kispert and cjm

Too much money going out. Olynyk and Kispert would work depending on what Kuminga gets. Kuminga can play the 4 and speaks French. Would he help or hurt the tank is fascinating to consider.

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[Jay81]

Why am I hearing rumors that we are trying to trade for kuminga?

I’d do it for kispert and cjm

Too much money going out. Olynyk and Kispert would work depending on what Kuminga gets. Kuminga can play the 4 and speaks French. Would he help or hurt the tank is fascinating to consider.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Could help the tank if we move out the better vets. I’m sure they would want a keyonte George back too

[WallToWall]

Kuminga could be a nice get. He slots in reasonably well at the PF. That said, his FT% and rebounding may not be fitting. His last few games, his FT% improved a lot, but its still 68% for last year. His rebounding is low for a PF or SF...and we need rebounding. He can score inside the arc though. Maybe he isnt the final answer for us at the PF spot, but he could be a good backup.

Kispert + Olynyk may work. If we can somehow get Trayce Jackson-Davis added to Kuminga, that would be nice. Maybe send a couple 2nds their way.

[doclinkin]

Why am I hearing rumors that we are trying to trade for kuminga?

I’d do it for kispert and cjm

Too much money going out. Olynyk and Kispert would work depending on what Kuminga gets. Kuminga can play the 4 and speaks French. Would he help or hurt the tank is fascinating to consider.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

Could help the tank if we move out the better vets. I’m sure they would want a keyonte George back too

Then they’d have to trade with Utah not us. Keep your players straight ji. You been watching weather maps too long, not basketball.

[9 and 20]

Kuminga - sure, why not. Especially if the idea is to flip him later and all it costs is Kispert, salary filler (we have a lot), and a late first -- either OKC's next year or the Warriors protected pick back.

I don't know if this guy is really going to help us win games next year - still have no real bigs on the roster and nobody to grab rebounds.

He's another big wing so I'm not sure how much room there will be to develop all these guys. Riley in the G league. Kuminga and Bilal as 30 minute per game starters at forward and Champagnie/George split whatever is left. Guard rotation remains what it is - Bub, Tre, AJ, with McCollum and Smart playing spot minutes.

Still a 20 win team if we dump some more vets, and Middleton wouldn't get much playing time here anyway.

[Dark Faze]

I don't know that I like the Kuminga fit. If he were a better shooter I might be for it, but I think that ship has sailed. I'm looking at his flamethrower month of 21 and 6 at a potential look at his ceiling and I don't really love it relative to what his salary expectations will be sooner rather than later.

I'm not against paying for a young upside player but I think Sarr needs more size help wise at PF/C and I don't want Kuminga starting long term over Bub/Tre/Bilal.

[tontoz]

Not interested in Kuminga.

[payitforward]

Kuminga is not a good player. Period. Don't want him.

[nate33]

Kuminga is not a good player. Period. Don't want him.

He was pretty good a season ago. Per 36, he averaged 22 points, 6.6 boards and 3.0 assists on a .598 TS% while posting a +3.0 on/off differential over 2000 minutes. And that was at age 21.

I don't know exactly why he had a down year last season, but clearly, there is potential there. When Kerr ran out of options and unleashed him in the playoffs, he posted 23.5 points per 36 on a .572 TS% against an elite Minnesota defense while Curry was out.

[DCZards]

Kuminga is not a good player. Period. Don't want him.

He was pretty good a season ago. Per 36, he averaged 22 points, 6.6 boards and 3.0 assists on a .598 TS% while posting a +3.0 on/off differential over 2000 minutes. And that was at age 21.

I don't know exactly why he had a down year last season, but clearly, there is potential there. When Kerr ran out of options and unleashed him in the playoffs, he posted 23.5 points per 36 on a .572 TS% against an elite Minnesota defense while Curry was out.

Kuminga has been up and down primarily because GS, for whatever reason, kept jerking him around.

As those #s show, kid can ball when given the opportunity.

[Rafael122]

Kuminga is a distressed asset. I bet Dawkins is thinking if the kid gets more consistent playing time we’ll see a better player. I think Golden State yo-yoed way too much with him.

[Benjammin]

I don't know if the Wiz will have best offer for Kuminga, but Kuminga would have a great opportunity here. Salaries have to match plus GS probably would want their pick back and maybe a young player. May be too high a cost.

[nate33]

I don't know if the Wiz will have best offer for Kuminga, but Kuminga would have a great opportunity here. Salaries have to match plus GS probably would want their pick back and maybe a young player. May be too high a cost.

It's an interesting situation. Kuminga does NOT want to go back to Golden State, but Golden State surely isn't going to engineer a trade that's worse than just letting Kuminga walk. There are several scenarios:

1. Brooklyn, the only team with cap room, simply signs him to a deal higher than the MLE and high enough that Golden State doesn't want to match. My guess is that anything higher than roughly 4 years $75M would meet that threshold. I don't know if Brooklyn wants to offer that, but I'm reasonably confident that if they do, Golden State would decline to match.

2. Any number of teams will probably offer a full MLE deal. The question is, will Golden State match? If Kuminga thinks Golden State will match, he might not accept an MLE deal because he wants to get out of Golden State.

3. Kuminga accepts the 1-year qualifying offer of roughly $10M. That keeps in Golden State for one more year, but then he becomes an unrestricted free agent. He also gets a no-trade clause so he can veto any trade that he doesn't like. Neither side really wants this option. Kuminga's camp would not want the low pay and injury risk. Golden State effectively loses him as a trade asset if this happens.

4. Golden State engineers a sign-and-trade. They would need to get back a player that's better than a player they could acquire in free agency or they're better off just letting Kuminga walk. This is where it gets interesting. Curry, Butler and Draymond are all under contract through Summer 2027, so they really don't want to let that salary slot disappear. Ideally, they trade Kuminga for a good player on a 2-year deal who also expires in 2027, but the next best thing is to exchange it for a good player on a 1-year deal, who could then be traded or extended. I don't know how many teams can meet these criteria, but we are one of them. It might be the case that nobody is really capable of offering what Golden State needs and we offer the best of a bunch of bad options. It may be a golden opportunity to buy low.

[nate33]

I'm having a hard time coming up with a trade that works because of Kuminga's base-year-compensation.

Effectively, only half of Kuminga's new salary will count as "outgoing" salary for Golden State, but all of the new salary counts as incoming for us. So, for example, if Kuminga signs a deal that pays him $24M in Year 1, then that's $12M in outgoing salary from Golden State, but $24M in incoming salary for us. We would have to send out at least $19.2M in the transaction ($24M/125%) in order to take on a $24M salary, but Golden State can only take on $15M in incoming salary ($12M*125%). We could send them Kispert, but then we'd have to send $5.3M in salary to a third team with a TPE or other exception. We don't have any contracts in that range. I guess it would work if someone wanted to absorb Kispert or Olynyk into their MLE.

We could make it work if they included Buddy Hield. Then their outgoing would be Hield's $9.2M plus half of Kuminga's $24M for a total of $21.2M. We send them Marcus Smart ($21.5M) and our JV TPE to absorb Hield. If they include Gui Santos, we could send them Olynyk + Kispert instead of Smart. The problem with that scenario is that now Golden State is giving up both Kuminga AND Hield just to get Kispert and Olynyk.

[dckingsfan]

I'm having a hard time coming up with a trade that works because of Kuminga's base-year-compensation.

Effectively, only half of Kuminga's new salary will count as "outgoing" salary for Golden State, but all of the new salary counts as incoming for us. So, for example, if Kuminga signs a deal that pays him $24M in Year 1, then that's $12M in outgoing salary from Golden State, but $24M in incoming salary for us. We would have to send out at least $19.2M in the transaction ($24M/125%) in order to take on a $24M salary, but Golden State can only take on $15M in incoming salary ($12M*125%). We could send them Kispert, but then we'd have to send $5.3M in salary to a third team with a TPE or other exception. We don't have any contracts in that range. I guess it would work if someone wanted to absorb Kispert or Olynyk into their MLE.

We could make it work if they included Buddy Hield. Then their outgoing would be Hield's $9.2M plus half of Kuminga's $24M for a total of $21.2M. We send them Marcus Smart ($21.5M) and our JV TPE to absorb Hield. If they include Gui Santos, we could send them Olynyk + Kispert instead of Smart. The problem with that scenario is that now Golden State is giving up both Kuminga AND Hield just to get Kispert and Olynyk.

Hence why Brooklyn is the best fit. But there is zero chance (opinion) that Brooklyn sends draft assets to GS.

I think someone will make an offer and GS will have to stand back and watch it happen or match and be hard capped.

unless it is part of that super huge trade that is brewing under the surface...

[payitforward]

Kuminga is not a good player. Period. Don't want him.

He was pretty good a season ago. Per 36, he averaged 22 points, 6.6 boards and 3.0 assists on a .598 TS% while posting a +3.0 on/off differential over 2000 minutes. And that was at age 21....

For sure, that was his best season. But even in that case, "pretty good" is not the same as, simply, "good."

If he'd shown a Deni-like jump his fourth year, I'd be more inclined to make a bet on the kind of BIG jump that wd match Deni's "great leap forward" in year 5.

...I don't know exactly why he had a down year last season, but clearly, there is potential there. When Kerr ran out of options and unleashed him in the playoffs, he posted 23.5 points per 36 on a .572 TS% against an elite Minnesota defense while Curry was out.

To be sure -- he's talented. But this remains a high-uncertainty bet at an early stage of our total rebuild.

What would you be willing to give to take the bet on Kuminga? Kispert alone won't get him. Add Bilal? Sarr? Both of them? Picks?

[payitforward]

We could make it work if they included Buddy Hield. Then their outgoing would be Hield's $9.2M plus half of Kuminga's $24M for a total of $21.2M. We send them Marcus Smart ($21.5M) and our JV TPE to absorb Hield. If they include Gui Santos, we could send them Olynyk + Kispert instead of Smart.....

Well....sure!