BOS <-> IND

[BK_2020]

Boston trade: Jaylen Brown
Indiana trade: Tyrese Haliburton

The two best EC teams saw their seasons end with an Achilles injury to their respective superstars, leaving both teams in limbo for the upcoming season. This trade fixes this problem by consolidating the healthy remaining stars in Indiana, allowing them to compete in 25-26 with the added bonus of Boston being out of the race.

Indiana why:
Their contention window is flung wide open once again. Siakam and Brown form a terrifyingly potent wing duo and suddenly become the team to beat in the East.
Also important for a small-market team like the Pacers is Brown's reliability. Indy don't have to gamble on Haliburton returning to form after an Achilles injury--a gamble they have previously lost with Oladipo. Loss of Haliburton will hurt but they learned that they can compete with Haliburton out or not performing.


Boston why:
They concede that 25-26 is Indiana's turn to win the East. 25-26 was a lost season anyway due to the cap constraints. In return, they get a lottery ticket in injured Haliburton, doubling down on Achilles recovery. In fact, go out and sign Dame and have an all-Achilles team. If the three stars return to form, they will have a strong team in 26-27.

[Godaddycurse]

Would Boston do tatum for siakam?

[BK_2020]

Would Boston do tatum for siakam?

No because Boston due to cap crunch had to sell off contention pieces anyway so they can't really salvage this season. It's Indiana's turn to win.

[hugepatsfan]

Unrealistic idea for many reasons. But if there was a world where this made sense for IND… reportedly before Hali injury they were willing to pay tax for Turner. Then they changed their mind after injury. If they were going to compensate for the Hali injury with something like this, you figure it’d be accompanied by the same willingness to go into the tax for Turner. The fact that he’s been allowed to walk confirms for us that IND wouldn’t do this.

[Godaddycurse]

Would Boston do tatum for siakam?

No because Boston due to cap crunch had to sell off contention pieces anyway so they can't really salvage this season. It's Indiana's turn to win.

Well indy shouldn't do it after letting go of turner either

[BK_2020]

I thought you guys would bring up Turner and yes, it's an issue but I'm thinking the Pacers always really hated Turner and was glad to let him go rather than pay him Naz Reid money. They can thrive with a mobile rim-runner next to Nembhard since Siakam and Brown will drive their offense anyway.

[jowglenn]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2465522

[BK_2020]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2465522

It's a brilliant trade proposal.

[8305]

No way I’m doing this.
Hali is that unique guy who makes other players better and allows the Pacers to play the fast pace they deploy. I don’t see any of that with Brown. I will live with the injury and keep the more unique guy.

[Wizop]

I thought you guys would bring up Turner and yes, it's an issue but I'm thinking the Pacers always really hated Turner

No! We just had to be realistic in a gap year

[Scoot McGroot]

I thought you guys would bring up Turner and yes, it's an issue but I'm thinking the Pacers always really hated Turner and was glad to let him go rather than pay him Naz Reid money. They can thrive with a mobile rim-runner next to Nembhard since Siakam and Brown will drive their offense anyway.

In getting more expensive by swapping Hali for Brown, and now also adding a need for another reliable long term Pg that can play at speed, how would Indy acquire a mobile rim runner they would so desperately need?

Also, if they just hated Myles, they likely would have traded him for value at some point, no? Rather than hold him desperately and then try to squeeze an extra $5m in savings out of him?

[Mavrelous]

Brown/Pritchard for Hali/Toppin is closer

[Scoot McGroot]

Brown/Pritchard for Hali/Toppin is closer

I don’t think that Indy would consider an Obi for Pritchard swap as helping value right now. Nit since the loss of Turner. Obi may end up being a starting center. And if not, he likely will play a TON Of minutes at the 4/5 this season to help Isaiah Jackson along.

Either way, Obi is a major cog at the bigs spots while Pritchard would be a help at a loaded guard rotation with Nemby, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Kam Jones expected to draw major minutes at the 1/2 (obviously, Mathurin/Nesmith can take turns stepping up to the 3).

[Mavrelous]

Brown/Pritchard for Hali/Toppin is closer

I don’t think that Indy would consider an Obi for Pritchard swap as helping value right now. Nit since the loss of Turner. Obi may end up being a starting center. And if not, he likely will play a TON Of minutes at the 4/5 this season to help Isaiah Jackson along.

Either way, Obi is a major cog at the bigs spots while Pritchard would be a help at a loaded guard rotation with Nemby, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Kam Jones expected to draw major minutes at the 1/2 (obviously, Mathurin/Nesmith can take turns stepping up to the 3).

I don't know what Pacers organization thinks, but Toppin wasn't good, not by eye test, and not by advanced stats, he's -8 on/off in RS and -11 in PO, he's also locked into the PF position, he's too small for the center position and doesn't have the defensive awareness to guard perimeter players.
I have Toppin as overpaid, and Pritchard as significantly underpaid, on value it's not really close.
I also have Pritchard as the best on ball player on the Pacers after this deal, none of the guards mentioned can be a PG except McConnel.

[Scoot McGroot]

Brown/Pritchard for Hali/Toppin is closer

I don’t think that Indy would consider an Obi for Pritchard swap as helping value right now. Nit since the loss of Turner. Obi may end up being a starting center. And if not, he likely will play a TON Of minutes at the 4/5 this season to help Isaiah Jackson along.

Either way, Obi is a major cog at the bigs spots while Pritchard would be a help at a loaded guard rotation with Nemby, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Kam Jones expected to draw major minutes at the 1/2 (obviously, Mathurin/Nesmith can take turns stepping up to the 3).

I don't know what Pacers organization thinks, but Toppin wasn't good, not by eye test, and not by advanced stats, he's -8 on/off in RS and -11 in PO, he's also locked into the PF position, he's too small for the center position and doesn't have the defensive awareness to guard perimeter players.
I have Toppin as overpaid, and Pritchard as significantly underpaid, on value it's not really close.
I also have Pritchard as the best on ball player on the Pacers after this deal, none of the guards mentioned can be a PG except McConnel.

Nembhard (Nemby) is clearly the starting PG and ball handler. McConnell also is.

As for Obi statements, probably an eye of the beholder thing? They clearly don’t make it as far in the playoffs without him. I think Indy would value the 3rd big man moreso than the 3rd PG right now? If McConnell were moved, I’d probably feel differently? Heck, if Myles were kept, I’d also feel very differently, and would gladly swap the two.

Also, Obi played a lot of center in the playoffs next to Siakam. He’s not a huge body to guard the embiid’s of the world, but he’s big enough to guard his lost teams play, with 4 sized players as 5.

None of this is ideal, but it’s probably our least bad scenario? Make this deal, and Pritchard is playing the 3, with Nesmith at the 4, and Siakam at the 5 for a lot of minutes? Having Obi would keep Indy in a better “situation”, even if Pritchard is the better player.

[Mavrelous]

Nembhard (Nemby) is clearly the starting PG and ball handler. McConnell also is.

We've had this argument before, agree to disagree, Nembhard is not a good on ball PG IMO.

As for Obi statements, probably an eye of the beholder thing? They clearly don’t make it as far in the playoffs without him. I think Indy would value the 3rd big man moreso than the 3rd PG right now? If McConnell were moved, I’d probably feel differently? Heck, if Myles were kept, I’d also feel very differently, and would gladly swap the two.

Also, Obi played a lot of center in the playoffs next to Siakam. He’s not a huge body to guard the embiid’s of the world, but he’s big enough to guard his lost teams play, with 4 sized players as 5.

None of this is ideal, but it’s probably our least bad scenario? Make this deal, and Pritchard is playing the 3, with Nesmith at the 4, and Siakam at the 5 for a lot of minutes? Having Obi would keep Indy in a better “situation”, even if Pritchard is the better player.

Yes, there is an element of eye of the beholder, but stats give a very strong indication he wasn't a positive player.
On/Off stats can be wrong, but for me, combined with the eye test, I just don't consider him a good player, and huge gap of value between him and Pritchard.

[Wizop]

How many players had 100 dunks and 100 3's?

If you think Nembhard can't run our offense, you must've missed the playoffs.

[Mavrelous]

Indiana Pacers Net Rating with Nembhard and without Haliburton in the PO is -6.75, In RS it's -4.75, they are a terrible team with Nembhard and w/o Haliburton on the floor, I'm sure me watching more would help these stats, but not by much.

[Wizop]

Indiana Pacers Net Rating with Nembhard and without Haliburton in the PO is -6.75, In RS it's -4.75, they are a terrible team with Nembhard and w/o Haliburton on the floor, I'm sure me watching more would help these stats, but not by much.

I'm not plugged into stats of this kind, but I wonder what these non-Hali lineups were. We'll soon see lineups without Ty and Myles. I wouldn't rush into trades.

[oldncreaky]

Nembhard (Nemby) is clearly the starting PG and ball handler. McConnell also is.

We've had this argument before, agree to disagree, Nembhard is not a good on ball PG IMO.

As for Obi statements, probably an eye of the beholder thing? They clearly don’t make it as far in the playoffs without him. I think Indy would value the 3rd big man moreso than the 3rd PG right now? If McConnell were moved, I’d probably feel differently? Heck, if Myles were kept, I’d also feel very differently, and would gladly swap the two.

Also, Obi played a lot of center in the playoffs next to Siakam. He’s not a huge body to guard the embiid’s of the world, but he’s big enough to guard his lost teams play, with 4 sized players as 5.

None of this is ideal, but it’s probably our least bad scenario? Make this deal, and Pritchard is playing the 3, with Nesmith at the 4, and Siakam at the 5 for a lot of minutes? Having Obi would keep Indy in a better “situation”, even if Pritchard is the better player.

Yes, there is an element of eye of the beholder, but stats give a very strong indication he wasn't a positive player.
On/Off stats can be wrong, but for me, combined with the eye test, I just don't consider him a good player, and huge gap of value between him and Pritchard.

On Nembhard, I strongly disagree. He can and has played PG -- on his Gonzaga team, on Indiana when either Hali or TJ have been out and/or before Nembhard forced his way into the starting line up (as SG), on Canada's National team where he backed up Shai at PG. He's also a good enough shooter, off-ball player and defender to play SG -- but his primary position has been PG since high school

Now that Nembhard will essentially thrown the keys to Indiana's O for a year, we'll find out if his PG skills top out as a backup, or whether he has another gear and looks like a better than average starting PG similar to FVV, or somewhere in between. I won't hazard a guess, I'll just watch with detached interest.

On Toppin, I think he's fairly paid at just under the NTMLE. My eye test says he's a fairly average backup PF, and I think he'll be a little over his head if he starts, but of course YMMV. As for the on-off stats, the fact that Toppin plays a lot of his minutes when Siakam rests is always going to tank those numbers on this Indiana team.

I don't think Indiana will or should consider the OP trade, at least not before the season. I think they should consider their options at the TDL, depending on their record -- but I also think there is a chance Indiana surprises the experts if even a couple of their young players take a step in Hali's absence