WAS/GSW/DEN: Kuminga, Kispert and Olynyk

[nate33]

The only "market" valuing Kuminga at $30+M a season is his agent and his mom

If Washington decides that is worth paying for whatever reason, they will have to negotiate a trade with Golden St. Golden St is under no obligation to give away Kuminga or to "compensate" Washington for being willing to give Kuminga a contract.

If Washington wants Kuminga at whatever the price is then, by definition, it's not a bad contract to Washington, unless the argument is Washington just feels like signing a bad contract to their detriment for ostensibly sadistic reasons.

Without cap space, Washington has to give to get. IMO, Olynyk is not even close to enough compensation. Golden State is better off keeping Kuminga. Is Washington better off with a (random) draft pick than Kuminga? That's something for Washington to evaluate.

That's cool. Keep him then. Or let him walk.

The premise of this trade is that GS doesn't want to pay him whatever salary Brooklyn is willing to pay, so Golden State is instead looking to come away with a useful asset by sign-and-trading him to Washington for one or more of their mediocre-but-useful vets. If Golden State would rather match the Nets' offer, or let him walk, that's fine.

The Nets haven’t made an offer and there’s nothing to indicate that they will

True.

If Brooklyn doesn't initiate an offer, then Golden State will either be matching a MLE-sized offer, or they will be trying to negotiate a S&T with someone. I'm assuming Golden State would probably match an MLE offer, so that means Kuminga would probably decline to sign any MLE-sized offer.

That leaves two scenarios. One: Kuminga plays out his final rookie contract year under the qualifying offer and then becomes an UFA. Or two: Golden State works out a S&T with some other team to get back a decent player. THAT'S the scenario I'm looking at here. Does this offer of one or more of Kispert, Olynyk or Smart seem like a better deal to Golden State than Golden State just letting Kuminga play out his final year? (Note, he can't be traded on his QO unless he agrees to it.)

Obviously, if someone else has a better offer than the Wizards, then take that offer.

[NW]

That's cool. Keep him then. Or let him walk.

The premise of this trade is that GS doesn't want to pay him whatever salary Brooklyn is willing to pay, so Golden State is instead looking to come away with a useful asset by sign-and-trading him to Washington for one or more of their mediocre-but-useful vets. If Golden State would rather match the Nets' offer, or let him walk, that's fine.

The Nets haven’t made an offer and there’s nothing to indicate that they will

True.

If Brooklyn doesn't initiate an offer, then Golden State will either be matching a MLE-sized offer, or they will be trying to negotiate a S&T with someone. I'm assuming Golden State would probably match an MLE offer, so that means Kuminga would probably decline to sign any MLE-sized offer.

That leaves two scenarios. One: Kuminga plays out his final rookie contract year under the qualifying offer and then becomes an UFA. Or two: Golden State works out a S&T with some other team to get back a decent player. THAT'S the scenario I'm looking at here. Does this offer of one or more of Kispert, Olynyk or Smart seem like a better deal to Golden State than Golden State just letting Kuminga play out his final year? (Note, he can't be traded on his QO unless he agrees to it.)

Obviously, if someone else has a better offer than the Wizards, then take that offer.

Would be shocked if Kuminga takes the QO and gambles. There will be a market for him, even if it’s not the $30 mil a year he’s hoping for. Kispert’s okay and they’ve had Olnyk interest in the past, but I think both would be behind on the list of guys that Chicago, Sacramento or Miami might offer

[nate33]

There will be a market for him, even if it’s not the $30 mil a year he’s hoping for. Kispert’s okay and they’ve had Olnyk interest in the past, but I think both would be behind on the list of guys that Chicago, Sacramento or Miami might offer

Any rumors on potential offers from Chicago, Sacramento or Miami? What kind of offer would the Wizards have to beat?

[NW]

There will be a market for him, even if it’s not the $30 mil a year he’s hoping for. Kispert’s okay and they’ve had Olnyk interest in the past, but I think both would be behind on the list of guys that Chicago, Sacramento or Miami might offer

Any rumors on potential offers from Chicago, Sacramento or Miami? What kind of offer would the Wizards have to beat?

Coby White is the name from Chicago, some iteration of Monk, Ellis or Carter from Sac and Jacquez or a Wiggins reunion from Miami. How much is real and how much is fan wishful thinking, who knows?

[gswhoops]

I mean I haven’t watched a ton of Kispert recently, so maybe he’s declined and I missed it. But I’m zero percent surprised that a movement shooter looked bad on a young team with no real offensive creator or system. Kispert isn’t the kind of guy who can create opportunities for himself at all, but put him in a system with movement and real offensive initiators (aka the Warriors) and I feel like he would look a LOT better.

Last I saw of Kispert he was an above average movement shooter with decent enough size for a wing who, while not a great defender, wasn’t so bad that he could get targeted and played off the court. That’s a player our roster could use.

[Crazy-Canuck]

There will be a market for him, even if it’s not the $30 mil a year he’s hoping for. Kispert’s okay and they’ve had Olnyk interest in the past, but I think both would be behind on the list of guys that Chicago, Sacramento or Miami might offer

Any rumors on potential offers from Chicago, Sacramento or Miami? What kind of offer would the Wizards have to beat?

Coby White is the name from Chicago, some iteration of Monk, Ellis or Carter from Sac and Jacquez or a Wiggins reunion from Miami. How much is real and how much is fan wishful thinking, who knows?

Kings have only included Carter, saric, and 2 second rounders.

Miami has already said rozier and wiggins will not be included in a Kuminga deal. Slomo +jj?

Bulls, we don't know anything yet. But based on the above, it'll probably be Williams.

No one will every know anything with 100% certaintity, but these have been the most consistent rumors.

[SA37]

Any rumors on potential offers from Chicago, Sacramento or Miami? What kind of offer would the Wizards have to beat?

Coby White is the name from Chicago, some iteration of Monk, Ellis or Carter from Sac and Jacquez or a Wiggins reunion from Miami. How much is real and how much is fan wishful thinking, who knows?

Kings have only included Carter, saric, and 2 second rounders.

Miami has already said rozier and wiggins will not be included in a Kuminga deal. Slomo +jj?

Bulls, we don't know anything yet. But based on the above, it'll probably be Williams.

No one will every know anything with 100% certaintity, but these have been the most consistent rumors.

FWIW:

Read on Twitter

[nate33]

I'm thinking there's a basis for a trade if it's a 3-way involving Denver. In this scenario, I'm assuming Valanciunas is indeed going to Greece, leaving Denver with a hole at center.

If Denver is willing to absorb Kelly Olynyk into their MLE, the mechanics of the trade can work.

Washington trades: Corey Kispert ($14M) + Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)
Washington receives: Jonathan Kuminga ($28M)

Golden State trades: Jonathan Kuminga (treated as $14M outgoing because of BYC issues)
Golden State receives: Corey Kispert ($14M)

Denver trades: MLE
Denver receives: Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)

All that's left is to figure out the incentive. I'm thinking Denver doesn't really need any. Olynyk is a perfect replacement for JV and Denver will have the money since JV is effectively retiring so his cap hit comes off the books. If Denver wants, Washington can absorb a small contract as part of the trade. I just don't know if Denver is looking to dump someone like Picket or Tyson.

So how much extra (if any) does Washington need to send to Golden State? For starters, I think Washington needs to give back Golden State's top 20 protected 2030 pick that they currently own. After that, it's a game of poker. Washington won't want to give up any more, and Golden State is going to want more. I don't know who will blink first. It really depends if Golden State has a better offer on the table from some other team. I do think that getting Kispert and full control of their 2030 pick is better than keeping a disgruntled Kuminga on a qualifying offer.

[NW]

Kispert and the 2030 pick back is a compelling offer since getting the 2030 opens up more possibilities and number of firsts that can be dealt in future trades. Also would keep us in range of avoiding the tax and getting to use the NTPMLE if my math is right-though it usually isn’t lol

[vxmike]

I'm thinking there's a basis for a trade if it's a 3-way involving Denver. In this scenario, I'm assuming Valanciunas is indeed going to Greece, leaving Denver with a hole at center.

If Denver is willing to absorb Kelly Olynyk into their MLE, the mechanics of the trade can work.

Washington trades: Corey Kispert ($14M) + Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)
Washington receives: Jonathan Kuminga ($28M)

Golden State trades: Jonathan Kuminga (treated as $14M outgoing because of BYC issues)
Golden State receives: Corey Kispert ($14M)

Denver trades: MLE
Denver receives: Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)

All that's left is to figure out the incentive. I'm thinking Denver doesn't really need any. Olynyk is a perfect replacement for JV and Denver will have the money since JV is effectively retiring so his cap hit comes off the books. If Denver wants, Washington can absorb a small contract as part of the trade. I just don't know if Denver is looking to dump someone like Picket or Tyson.

So how much extra (if any) does Washington need to send to Golden State? For starters, I think Washington needs to give back Golden State's top 20 protected 2030 pick that they currently own. After that, it's a game of poker. Washington won't want to give up any more, and Golden State is going to want more. I don't know who will blink first. It really depends if Golden State has a better offer on the table from some other team. I do think that getting Kispert and full control of their 2030 pick is better than keeping a disgruntled Kuminga on a qualifying offer.

Nice trade. Appears with the Kuminga BYC issue a SnT will likely require a 3rd team, since there aren’t many (? Any) teams left that can absorb Kuminga’s expected salary and only send back half to GSW.

[BelgradeNugget]

I'm thinking there's a basis for a trade if it's a 3-way involving Denver. In this scenario, I'm assuming Valanciunas is indeed going to Greece, leaving Denver with a hole at center.

If Denver is willing to absorb Kelly Olynyk into their MLE, the mechanics of the trade can work.

Washington trades: Corey Kispert ($14M) + Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)
Washington receives: Jonathan Kuminga ($28M)

Golden State trades: Jonathan Kuminga (treated as $14M outgoing because of BYC issues)
Golden State receives: Corey Kispert ($14M)

Denver trades: MLE
Denver receives: Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)

All that's left is to figure out the incentive. I'm thinking Denver doesn't really need any. Olynyk is a perfect replacement for JV and Denver will have the money since JV is effectively retiring so his cap hit comes off the books. If Denver wants, Washington can absorb a small contract as part of the trade. I just don't know if Denver is looking to dump someone like Picket or Tyson.

So how much extra (if any) does Washington need to send to Golden State? For starters, I think Washington needs to give back Golden State's top 20 protected 2030 pick that they currently own. After that, it's a game of poker. Washington won't want to give up any more, and Golden State is going to want more. I don't know who will blink first. It really depends if Golden State has a better offer on the table from some other team. I do think that getting Kispert and full control of their 2030 pick is better than keeping a disgruntled Kuminga on a qualifying offer.

I like Denver part (I made a tread myself around Kelly-Valanciunas ), no need for incentives or contract dumps here.

Anyway if Washington replaces Corey Kispert and his contract with Richaun Holmes expiring maybe 1st round pick won't be needed from Washington side because GSW also need servicable big. In that case, if Denver-Sacramento deal is involved Washington might get something from Sacramento to help make this deal (2nd). Valanciunas - Saric deal is more important to Sacramento to go through because they couldn't sign Schroder without it.

In this case 1 2nd from Washington, and 1 2nd from Sacramento, and Richaun Holmes to GSW.

But I would do Kelly Olynyk to Denver MLE or Kelly Olynyk/Valanciunas trade anyway

[NW]

I'm thinking there's a basis for a trade if it's a 3-way involving Denver. In this scenario, I'm assuming Valanciunas is indeed going to Greece, leaving Denver with a hole at center.

If Denver is willing to absorb Kelly Olynyk into their MLE, the mechanics of the trade can work.

Washington trades: Corey Kispert ($14M) + Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)
Washington receives: Jonathan Kuminga ($28M)

Golden State trades: Jonathan Kuminga (treated as $14M outgoing because of BYC issues)
Golden State receives: Corey Kispert ($14M)

Denver trades: MLE
Denver receives: Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)

All that's left is to figure out the incentive. I'm thinking Denver doesn't really need any. Olynyk is a perfect replacement for JV and Denver will have the money since JV is effectively retiring so his cap hit comes off the books. If Denver wants, Washington can absorb a small contract as part of the trade. I just don't know if Denver is looking to dump someone like Picket or Tyson.

So how much extra (if any) does Washington need to send to Golden State? For starters, I think Washington needs to give back Golden State's top 20 protected 2030 pick that they currently own. After that, it's a game of poker. Washington won't want to give up any more, and Golden State is going to want more. I don't know who will blink first. It really depends if Golden State has a better offer on the table from some other team. I do think that getting Kispert and full control of their 2030 pick is better than keeping a disgruntled Kuminga on a qualifying offer.

I like Denver part (I made a tread myself around Kelly-Valanciunas ), no need for incentives or contract dumps here.

Anyway if Washington replaces Corey Kispert and his contract with Richaun Holmes expiring maybe 1st round pick won't be needed from Washington side because GSW also need servicable big. In that case, if Denver-Sacramento deal is involved Washington might get something from Sacramento to help make this deal (2nd). Valanciunas - Saric deal is more important to Sacramento to go through because they couldn't sign Schroder without it.

In this case 1 2nd from Washington, and 1 2nd from Sacramento, and Richaun Holmes to GSW.

But I would do Kelly Olynyk to Denver MLE or Kelly Olynyk/Valanciunas trade anyway

Richaun Holmes does nothing for GS, they'd want more draft capital if he's the return

[BelgradeNugget]

I'm thinking there's a basis for a trade if it's a 3-way involving Denver. In this scenario, I'm assuming Valanciunas is indeed going to Greece, leaving Denver with a hole at center.

If Denver is willing to absorb Kelly Olynyk into their MLE, the mechanics of the trade can work.

Washington trades: Corey Kispert ($14M) + Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)
Washington receives: Jonathan Kuminga ($28M)

Golden State trades: Jonathan Kuminga (treated as $14M outgoing because of BYC issues)
Golden State receives: Corey Kispert ($14M)

Denver trades: MLE
Denver receives: Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)

All that's left is to figure out the incentive. I'm thinking Denver doesn't really need any. Olynyk is a perfect replacement for JV and Denver will have the money since JV is effectively retiring so his cap hit comes off the books. If Denver wants, Washington can absorb a small contract as part of the trade. I just don't know if Denver is looking to dump someone like Picket or Tyson.

So how much extra (if any) does Washington need to send to Golden State? For starters, I think Washington needs to give back Golden State's top 20 protected 2030 pick that they currently own. After that, it's a game of poker. Washington won't want to give up any more, and Golden State is going to want more. I don't know who will blink first. It really depends if Golden State has a better offer on the table from some other team. I do think that getting Kispert and full control of their 2030 pick is better than keeping a disgruntled Kuminga on a qualifying offer.

I like Denver part (I made a tread myself around Kelly-Valanciunas ), no need for incentives or contract dumps here.

Anyway if Washington replaces Corey Kispert and his contract with Richaun Holmes expiring maybe 1st round pick won't be needed from Washington side because GSW also need servicable big. In that case, if Denver-Sacramento deal is involved Washington might get something from Sacramento to help make this deal (2nd). Valanciunas - Saric deal is more important to Sacramento to go through because they couldn't sign Schroder without it.

In this case 1 2nd from Washington, and 1 2nd from Sacramento, and Richaun Holmes to GSW.

But I would do Kelly Olynyk to Denver MLE or Kelly Olynyk/Valanciunas trade anyway

Richaun Holmes does nothing for GS, they'd want more draft capital if he's the return

He is expiring contract. If GSW signs Al Horford, no need for Holmes, if not GSW needs big. Kispert is wing, on 3 year contract, GSW has a lot of wings.
Of course from GSW side Kispert and Golden State's top 20 protected 1st 2030 pick > Holmes + 2 2nds, I would take that too if Washington is willing to offer

[NW]

I like Denver part (I made a tread myself around Kelly-Valanciunas ), no need for incentives or contract dumps here.

Anyway if Washington replaces Corey Kispert and his contract with Richaun Holmes expiring maybe 1st round pick won't be needed from Washington side because GSW also need servicable big. In that case, if Denver-Sacramento deal is involved Washington might get something from Sacramento to help make this deal (2nd). Valanciunas - Saric deal is more important to Sacramento to go through because they couldn't sign Schroder without it.

In this case 1 2nd from Washington, and 1 2nd from Sacramento, and Richaun Holmes to GSW.

But I would do Kelly Olynyk to Denver MLE or Kelly Olynyk/Valanciunas trade anyway

Richaun Holmes does nothing for GS, they'd want more draft capital if he's the return

He is expiring contract. If GSW signs Al Horford, no need for Holmes, if not GSW needs big. Kispert is wing, on 3 year contract, GSW has a lot of wings.
Of course from GSW side Kispert and Golden State's top 20 protected 1st 2030 pick > Holmes + 2 2nds, I would take that too if Washington is willing to offer

Even if they don’t get Horford, they’ll find better than Holmes especially if it costs Kuminga

[BelgradeNugget]

Richaun Holmes does nothing for GS, they'd want more draft capital if he's the return

He is expiring contract. If GSW signs Al Horford, no need for Holmes, if not GSW needs big. Kispert is wing, on 3 year contract, GSW has a lot of wings.
Of course from GSW side Kispert and Golden State's top 20 protected 1st 2030 pick > Holmes + 2 2nds, I would take that too if Washington is willing to offer

Even if they don’t get Horford, they’ll find better than Holmes especially if it costs Kuminga

To be clear, with Horford or not they will need 2nd big. Anyway nothing here costs Kuminga. If Warriors want him, they resign him.

[Nate the Great]

I mean I haven’t watched a ton of Kispert recently, so maybe he’s declined and I missed it. But I’m zero percent surprised that a movement shooter looked bad on a young team with no real offensive creator or system. Kispert isn’t the kind of guy who can create opportunities for himself at all, but put him in a system with movement and real offensive initiators (aka the Warriors) and I feel like he would look a LOT better.

Last I saw of Kispert he was an above average movement shooter with decent enough size for a wing who, while not a great defender, wasn’t so bad that he could get targeted and played off the court. That’s a player our roster could use.

His three point shooting, which is supposed to be his strong suit, has dropped to league average. His defense is terrible. He doesn’t score, pass, or rebound very much. I’m not sure what he does well.

[nate33]

I mean I haven’t watched a ton of Kispert recently, so maybe he’s declined and I missed it. But I’m zero percent surprised that a movement shooter looked bad on a young team with no real offensive creator or system. Kispert isn’t the kind of guy who can create opportunities for himself at all, but put him in a system with movement and real offensive initiators (aka the Warriors) and I feel like he would look a LOT better.

Last I saw of Kispert he was an above average movement shooter with decent enough size for a wing who, while not a great defender, wasn’t so bad that he could get targeted and played off the court. That’s a player our roster could use.

His three point shooting, which is supposed to be his strong suit, has dropped to league average. His defense is terrible. He does score, pass, or rebound very much. I’m not sure what he does well.

The numbers are the numbers, but I will say that Kispert is a guy who needs a lot of structure in the offense, and a team starting 4 rookies does not provide that structure. His 3P% dropped partially because he was taking a lot of 27-28 footers instead of 24 footers because that's how far he needed to space out to get looks because the team lacked any real defense-bender with the ball or any real screen setter.

The last time the team had real offensive structure was in 2022-23 when they had experienced basketball players like Beal, Porzingis and Monte Morris. Kispert was much better with that structure and shot 42% from 3-point range. The guy is only 26 and hasn't had any real injuries. It's not like he got worse in the past 2 seasons. I think if he gets put back into a motion system alongside guys who know how to screen, pass and cut, he will be very good offensively. Another thing to note about Kispert is his anemic turnover rate and his exceptional finishing at the rim.

Defensively, he knows where to be and is pretty good off ball tagging the roll man. And he has quicker feet than you think (exceptional lane agility score). His problem is his alligator arms and core strength. Guys don't really go around him as much as they go through him.