The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[carey]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

[Fo-Real]

Here's your 2025 Suns team whether you like it or not. Enjoy it.

C Williams, Maluach, Ighodaro
F Dunn, Fleming, Lyes
F Brooks, Royce, Hayes
G Book, Allen, (Brea 2-way)*
G Green, Gillespie, Joseph

*If Beal gets bought out, then sure, u can convert Brea to regular contract but until then he'll have to be 2-way if Beal taking up roster spot even tho this is "Stay at home Jae Crowder" all over again.

So a repeat of last place in the Pacific or moving up to...4th?

Would bring Brooks off the bench like an angry enforcing mercenary!! Green, Book, DUNN, wildcard/ rookie Fleming or someone else.../ Williams!

[Mr Puddles]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

[lilfishi22]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

It's not about signings. It's purely a money savings play.

[Mr Puddles]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

It's not about signings. It's purely a money savings play.

So if it's purely a money saving play, don't we have until the trade deadline to sort this out? Seems like buying out and stretching Beal should be a last resort to save money.

Not having control over our own pick for the next 5 years isn't enough, so we should have less capspace than any other team in the league as well for that same period of time?

The only thing this team has "going for it" at the moment is that we're clearing a ton of contracts in two years, and we could potentially revamp our roster with hopefully some savy free agency signings and hopefully some of our current youngsters working out.

We're only 11mil above the second apron, no? If the Suns hadn't picked up Richards it would have been 6 mil? It seems like gross mismanagement of assets to have to buy out Beal. There isn't a trade available where we move Allen's 17 mil for a lower contract and buyout and stretch that player if needed? Like Allen for someone making 10 mil a year, buy out and stretch to 5 mil a year and we're under the second apron? Then just let Beal expire in two years.

[Frank Lee]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

Beal is still the driver of this bus. My guess is he is waiting on a commitment/guarantee from his next team before he gives the OK. His acceptable suitors are likely limited in what they can offer. And if it’s Miami, you know Riley will wait it out. Brittle Brad may not have many offers.

If Phnx is not going to stretch him, and/or Beal is blocking this, then there is no rush. Perhaps teams he is not interested in have interest? Sit him down until he expands his list.

This could get toxic. Probably coming to a boil under the pot lid right now. Beal just doesn’t need to be around as he is clearly not in future plans, contrary to all the dreamers that want him to play here. He’s is a waste of minutes, regardless of his contribution.

PS…. I don’t think the TMLE/MLE is the goal here. $230 mil tax savings (if true) is substantial, and the combining of players to trade is more important. And tho the FA list is limited, you can use the MLE in trades. It’s not restricted to free agents

[bwgood77]

Waiving and stretching Beal would be the death knell on any hopes of a playoff team over the next 5 years. Can't build a roster with 15% of your cap held by dead money over 5 years.

If it had to come to this, we should have used the 1st we used on Mark Williams to dump the Beal contract.

Might as well trade Booker right now if we're doing the waive and stretch.

I don't see how there is any chance we are a playoff team in that timeframe unless we really hit big on a couple of our picks and they develop quickly, trade Booker (hopefully to Houston for our picks) and get a top 4 pick in the 2027 draft, and sign a nice free agent or two in 2027 when Beal expires and Book is gone.

So nail a couple of late picks, get a top pick in 2027 (our own if Houston trades FVV, Smith, Eason for Book in the next year), and get a couple of free agents in 2027 that move the needle.

If I was the RealGM, that would be my goal. I think looking at it the other day, Amen Thompson max and KD would only overlap one year, so after that the big contracts would just be Book, Thompson and Sengun if he went to Houston.

[BobbieL]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

I for one am glad they didn't stretch/waive Beal only to turn around and sign a mediocre player just to "sign somebody" and have Flex or Gambo saying thsi front office knows what it is doing

You said it yourself, the FA class is weak. So if Ishbia is doing this to save money - which I think he is - fine. Just don't double down and be stupid like Sarver did to not sign Amare (with his knee injuries, the right move ) to turn around and sign Warrick and Childress to multi year deals.

Ishbia doesn't need to sign a player to sign a player. Now, one thing about S/W - they should be able to aggregate contracts so that could be a plus
I still hope Beal holds out as the short gain only benefits Ishbia's wallet - not the team

[WeekapaugGroove]

Yeah the whole Beal situation makes more sense after seeing that $270mil number. I guess we now wait to see if his agent can find a team that will guarantee the $14 mil he'd have to give up in a buy out.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

The faster Ted Cruz’ twin is gone the better. I was told Grayson is awesome on defense, that was false. All the dude does is shoot threes. He’s a dime a dozen! Plus we have Kobe Brea who reportedly does the same thing.

Yeah, I agree. Even though he's the better twin.

[bwgood77]

If the Suns find a way to stretch and waive Beal, the Suns are holding up a white flag for the next 5 years. Suns willl legitimately not be in contention for anything except praying they don’t give another team the #1 pick. I’m praying Beal saves the Suns from themselves.

If they buy out Beal, it better just be this year and next. Stretch and waive is beyond pointless. As some have already explained, you are just kicking the can down the road restricting you even further. This team isn’t going to be good for a long time due to the choices made.

I just think with how the West is: Houston, OKC and Denver right there at the top... it would be foolish to think you can compete with those teams. That is not giving up - that is just being realistic.

So it actually gives an "out" of pressing pause to rebuild properly. I mean, they extended Booker - it can all be PR - somebody can wordsmith it, new coach, young players and just play word salad about building for the future so we don't want to limit the roster as we mature and grow as a team

Taking 20m per year for nothing - when this year and next year are really just "redshirt" or "gap" year is just short sighted. The fans that want Beal gone to sign a player just want activity, not accomplishment. "Oh boy, we signed D'Anthony Melton"!!! And how many extra wins will Melton truly get you?

The top is OKC and Houston. DEN is probably among the top 3 or 4 in the next tier. But it would also be foolish to think we will come close to competing with SA, DAL, MIN, both LA teams, GS, Memphis, and probably the Pelicans with Murray and others back. But pretty sure we will be worse than Portland and probably the Kings as well, unless they tank.

I imagine we finish between 11th and 15th again, but probably closer to the bottom of that range. I will be very surprised if we win 30 games.

I'm excited to watch the young guys though. Nothing worse than watching a really old team tie for 11th or 12th place.

[bwgood77]

Seems likely impossible that Beal will be traded at this point, but here's a fun one I've been working on:
Chicago receives Beal
Toronto receives Coby White + Zach Collins
Phoenix receives Immanuel Quickley + Patrick Williams

I believe there is also a version of this trade with Miami instead of Chicago where Wiggins goes to Toronto, but this one was easier to line up.

Can we just cut Toronto out of that deal and get Coby White and Zach Collins?

[bwgood77]

Beal not going anywhere. "Buyout discussions" recently in news is nothing new and won't happen. He will be asked to stay home. This is the Jae Crowder 2.0 route.

If your not trading or buying him out make him play and come off the bench. Why make him sit at home? that's dumb.

Yeah, he is a good vet for the locker room. And I think he's better at playing with guys that may screw up than Book. Book when frustrated will bark at others which is why I think Bud told him to cut back on that. Of course that didn't go over well with Book and when he mentioned, Suns fans. But I think you need a vet who is a bit more of a positive influence around the youngins.

[bwgood77]

Has Westbrook signed with a team yet?

I think Westbrook would be nice to have. He certainly has his faults, but he sets a good example with how hard you play and leave everything on the court. There are not that many players (at least over the last decade) that play harder than him under any circumstance. Maybe some now that he is a bit older, but I think he is another good example. I wonder how he and Beal liked playing together? Of course they'd be bench guys here, but a nice bench tandem to play with young guys, get them going.

[bwgood77]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

Yeah, I can see having discussions and exploring things, but how desperate the Suns are to get rid of him could be overblown, unless Book hates playing with him (I think he eventually doesn't like playing with most people outside of maybe Bridges, Cam and KD).

Personally, I hope we keep him because I think that increases our chances of just dealing him next year when he's an expiring, though that may be a mistake too if we had to take back a bad longer contract. Best case for me is just keep him, have him be a vet for young guys, and expire summer of 27.

2nd best case, buy him out but not stretch him. This is close for me to the "best case" I just mentioned, and maybe would be preferable if it enables us to get under the 2nd apron without stretching him...by itself or with trading one of our other guys and taking back a little less money. If we could definitely do that, I'd prefer buying him out, to allow us to maybe combine Richards with Royce or Allen if it makes trade options easier.

[bwgood77]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

Beal is still the driver of this bus. My guess is he is waiting on a commitment/guarantee from his next team before he gives the OK. His acceptable suitors are likely limited in what they can offer. And if it’s Miami, you know Riley will wait it out. Brittle Brad may not have many offers.

If Phnx is not going to stretch him, and/or Beal is blocking this, then there is no rush. Perhaps teams he is not interested in have interest? Sit him down until he expands his list.

This could get toxic. Probably coming to a boil under the pot lid right now. Beal just doesn’t need to be around as he is clearly not in future plans, contrary to all the dreamers that want him to play here. He’s is a waste of minutes, regardless of his contribution.

PS…. I don’t think the TMLE/MLE is the goal here. $230 mil tax savings (if true) is substantial, and the combining of players to trade is more important. And tho the FA list is limited, you can use the MLE in trades. It’s not restricted to free agents

We don't even know if a trade has been agreed to that he's been approached about. And if Wishbia plans to stretch him if he can buy him out, that would just be another Ishbia crippling move.

[bwgood77]

After listing the WC teams and then reading this, it's amazing how much worse the east is, especially this year with Haliburton and Tatum out.

At the start of the playoffs, the Boston Celtics were the consensus favorites to return to the NBA Finals. Then, at the start of Game 7 of those Finals, the Indiana Pacers not only had a chance to win their first title but were already seen as the conference favorites next season after a thrilling run through the East playoffs.

Achilles tears suffered by a pair of Olympic gold medalists -- Celtics forward Jayson Tatum and Pacers guard Tyrese Haliburton -- has thrown the East into complete disarray. Or, as one assistant coach said, "It's the worst it's ever been -- again."

With so much uncertainty around the conference, we conducted a snap poll of eight scouts and executives to see where things stand.

Conference snap poll: Who will win the East?

Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

Cavaliers 7 1 0 0
Knicks 1 5 1 1
Hawks 0 1 2 3
Magic 0 1 3 1
76ers 0 0 1 2
Bucks 0 0 1 0
Pistons 0 0 0 1

What's clear is that the East is seen as having three tiers: The Cleveland Cavaliers and New York Knicks are at the top; the Atlanta Hawks and Orlando Magic after that; and then a jumbled rest of the conference following from there.

That Philadelphia received three votes is a reminder that if the 76ers can get their team on the court, they might have the highest ceiling of any East team. However, the chances of that ceiling being reached are lowered by the injury histories of Joel Embiid and Paul George and the overall disaster of a 2024-25 season Philadelphia suffered through. Boston, Indiana and the Miami Heat, a trio that combined for seven of the past eight conference finals appearances, received zero top-four votes.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45664205/nba-free-agency-lebron-next-move-denver-deals-more-intel

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

This might not be such a bad idea as this iid does seem to have a lot of Jalen Suggs/ De'Anthony Melton to his game. Might be a vet minimum or two way steal as a 3rd guard option with the skillset to compliment Booker and J Green.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter