LeBron seen practicing at Cavs practice facility (7/4)

[ScrantonBulls]

Crazy that he has his place in LA but goes back to freaking Ohio to spend his summers Most people would just stay in paradise in California (if you're rich that is).

I respect the fact that he still has close ties to the place where he started his career. Since retiring MJ has wanted absolutely nothing to do with Chicago. He wouldn't come back for the Bulls ring of honor. Never makes any appearances or wants anything to do with the Bulls. It's really a shame when your ultimate legend wants nothing to do with thecity he played his career with.

The other gigantic legend in Chicago sports, Walter Payton, stayed in Chicago after his career ended and was always involved with the city and the organization. I know the "organization" part wasn't possible for MJ as he was the owner of Charlotte. But still, the dude could show face in Chicago once in a while.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Crazy that he has his place in LA but goes back to freaking Ohio to spend his summers Most people would just stay in paradise in California (if you're rich that is).

I respect the fact that he still has close ties to the place where he started his career. Since retiring MJ has wanted absolutely nothing to do with Chicago. He wouldn't come back for the Bulls ring of honor. Never makes any appearances or wants anything to do with the Bulls. It's really a shame when your ultimate legend wants nothing to do with thecity he played his career with.

The other gigantic legend in Chicago sports, Walter Payton, stayed in Chicago after his career ended and was always involved with the city and the organization. I know the "organization" part wasn't possible for MJ as he was the owner of Charlotte. But still, the dude could show face in Chicago once in a while.

It’s not just where he started his career, it’s where he was born and raised.
Northern Ohio is also quite nice this time of year.
So not really that crazy tbh.

[og15]

Crazy that he has his place in LA but goes back to freaking Ohio to spend his summers Most people would just stay in paradise in California (if you're rich that is).

I respect the fact that he still has close ties to the place where he started his career. Since retiring MJ has wanted absolutely nothing to do with Chicago. He wouldn't come back for the Bulls ring of honor. Never makes any appearances or wants anything to do with the Bulls. It's really a shame when your ultimate legend wants nothing to do with thecity he played his career with.

The other gigantic legend in Chicago sports, Walter Payton, stayed in Chicago after his career ended and was always involved with the city and the organization. I know the "organization" part wasn't possible for MJ as he was the owner of Charlotte. But still, the dude could show face in Chicago once in a while.

It’s not just where he started his career, it’s where he was born and raised.
Northern Ohio is also quite nice this time of year.
So not really that crazy tbh.

Yea, many people don't seem to realize that places like Michigan, Ohio, etc are quite nice in the summer. He's already in LA all year, not really a big deal.

Jordan went to highschool in NC, went to UNC, so Charlotte is rightly the more "home" like place for him, not Chicago.

[Cavsfansince84]

It’s not just where he started his career, it’s where he was born and raised.
Northern Ohio is also quite nice this time of year.
So not really that crazy tbh.

Ya, in a lot of ways I think people have become programmed to think that anywhere other than LA, Miami or nyc are just these terrible places to live/visit and its just very narrow minded. There is a lot of beauty in other areas if you actually go there aren't focused on the worst parts of the big cities. Which is why Dame actually wanted to stay in Portland. This idea that a person's life is really going to just revolve around the beach(which personally I don't even like beaches more than once or twice a year) and night clubs on a daily basis especially if they have families is pretty preposterous. More so when you factor in things like traffic and cost of living.

[VanWest82]

And screw Scottie out of his only real payday?? C'mon. Even Jordan wasn't that ruthless.

Imagine in 2009 the PGA was like, hey Tiger, I know you've been killing it for us and everyone is watching because of you, but we need you to take a 50% paycut and maybe more, and not only that but if you want that money you can't play at your favourite venues, and if you do you have to start +5 to the field. So no Bay Hill, no Augusta, no Firestone. Play for way less where we say or play where you want for much, much less or don't play. The whole thing is as ludicrous now as it was back then.

No, I think it seems ludicrous to you now because many fans have spent the last 25 years rationalizing the choice he made as the only possible one and truth be told, it absolutely was the best decision for him and his legacy. Because chances are that if he went somewhere else and that for the sake of argument had little issue with playing for only $3-5m that he probably doesn't win it all that first year and then maybe not in the second and then that's how he gets remembered. So it worked out great for him but my point is that I think he knew that it wouldn't nearly as easy for him personally as it had the previous 3 years. That's my point here. So many people on here act like LeBron going to a new team/city with all new teammates and its always this big cake walk for him to win rings. That's not the way it is and the proof of it is how many times over the last 20 years we've seen teams get anointed as superteams that don't even make it to a conf final. Even when a team has talent its not easy to just throw it together and win. I think MJ at the very least understood that it would be very hard to go anywhere else and meet those kind of expectations and that's part of why he waited until 2002 to come back.

I don’t disagree with you about his chances of winning another title being diminished having to start over again, but just to further my point here, he only came back once Wizards promised him a stake in the team. Acting like money wasn’t the main driver here is nuts. It was surely a big part of the reason he retired the first time too.

[Cavsfansince84]

I don’t disagree with you about his chances of winning another title being diminished having to start over again, but just to further my point here, he only came back once Wizards promised him a stake in the team. Acting like money wasn’t the main driver here is nuts. It was surely a big part of the reason he retired the first time too.

I don't think that's how it went. His ownership stake wasn't contingent on him playing for them and I don't think he was allowed to be both part owner and a player. Maybe he was but he decided to play a year after he got the ownership and then his salary was only $1m which he donated to charity. So money was not an important factor at all to him playing.

[VanWest82]

I don’t disagree with you about his chances of winning another title being diminished having to start over again, but just to further my point here, he only came back once Wizards promised him a stake in the team. Acting like money wasn’t the main driver here is nuts. It was surely a big part of the reason he retired the first time too.

I don't think that's how it went. His ownership stake wasn't contingent on him playing for them and I don't think he was allowed to be both part owner and a player. Maybe he was but he decided to play a year after he got the ownership and then his salary was only $1m which he donated to charity. So money was not an important factor at all to him playing.

I double checked and you were right. He had to sell to play, so clearly he just missed it in 01. It was the same in 95. Clearly, he just missed it.

I don't think it was the same in 93 or 98. Obviously, burn out was a big factor, and I don't dismiss that part. But in 93 he was making 3M while carrying teammates that were quiet quitting for most of the season to a third championship all while NBA franchise values climbed through the roof during that period despite NBA also expanding at the same time. I've already made the financial case for 98.

One could argue this is all pure speculation, of course, because Jordan has never publicly discussed money or contracts, etc., but there's just no way imo that him being so dramatically underpaid compared to his true worth didn't impact his decision to keep playing. I also agree with the points others have made over the years about lack of something to chase.

[magee]

Cleveland would have to get under the Second Apron to facilitate a Bron/Kleber for Garland/Hunter trade. Cavs should hang up if they ask for Allen or Mobley.

[Cavsfansince84]

I double checked and you were right. He had to sell to play, so clearly he just missed it in 01. It was the same in 95. Clearly, he just missed it.

I don't think it was the same in 93 or 98. Obviously, burn out was a big factor, and I don't dismiss that part. But in 93 he was making 3M while carrying teammates that were quiet quitting for most of the season to a third championship all while NBA franchise values climbed through the roof during that period despite NBA also expanding at the same time. I've already made the financial case for 98.

One could argue this is all pure speculation, of course, because Jordan has never publicly discussed money or contracts, etc., but there's just no way imo that him being so dramatically underpaid compared to his true worth didn't impact his decision to keep playing. I also agree with the points others have made over the years about lack of something to chase.

Speculation is what is going on here. I'm not arguing that. The point I made is that money was not the primary thing that made him step away while still the best player in the world in 98. I'm sure it could have been part of it but I think he knew that going anywhere else would be taking a big risk to his legacy if it went sideways and I think he knew that it would most likely be harder to do without Phil & Scottie. We saw how much he battled with guys like Rip and others in Washington when he was more front and center as a leader. Many posters act like LeBron's rings are almost asterisked because he moved around but its not nearly as easy to do as he makes it look. Which is why him being able to do it is a strength. It's not major weakness of him as a player to be able to form teams and win titles with them. It shows an incredible amount of portability and leadership in reality.

[MAMBAEMD]

Time to go through this thread and see who needs to get a life.

[JellosJigglin]

I double checked and you were right. He had to sell to play, so clearly he just missed it in 01. It was the same in 95. Clearly, he just missed it.

I don't think it was the same in 93 or 98. Obviously, burn out was a big factor, and I don't dismiss that part. But in 93 he was making 3M while carrying teammates that were quiet quitting for most of the season to a third championship all while NBA franchise values climbed through the roof during that period despite NBA also expanding at the same time. I've already made the financial case for 98.

One could argue this is all pure speculation, of course, because Jordan has never publicly discussed money or contracts, etc., but there's just no way imo that him being so dramatically underpaid compared to his true worth didn't impact his decision to keep playing. I also agree with the points others have made over the years about lack of something to chase.

Speculation is what is going on here. I'm not arguing that. The point I made is that money was not the primary thing that made him step away while still the best player in the world in 98. I'm sure it could have been part of it but I think he knew that going anywhere else would be taking a big risk to his legacy if it went sideways and I think he knew that it would most likely be harder to do without Phil & Scottie. We saw how much he battled with guys like Rip and others in Washington when he was more front and center as a leader. Many posters act like LeBron's rings are almost asterisked because he moved around but its not nearly as easy to do as he makes it look. Which is why him being able to do it is a strength. It's not major weakness of him as a player to be able to form teams and win titles with them. It shows an incredible amount of portability and leadership in reality.

MJ didn't come back with the expectation of winning a ring. Lebron handpicked his teams for the purpose of winning titles. Either they had players he wanted to play with or enough assets to sell the farm and go all-in.

[Cavsfansince84]

MJ didn't come back with the expectation of winning a ring. Lebron handpicked his teams for the purpose of winning titles. Either they had players he wanted to play with or enough assets to sell the farm and go all-in.

We aren't talking about when he came back after 3 years off at age 39. We're talking about him choosing retirement over going anywhere else in 98-99. The Wizards part is kind of a sidetrack that VanWest brought up.