2025 Free Agency News/Rumors

[dumbell78]

Whitmore for 2 2nd picks is better value than Okuro for Ball.

When the Wizards make better moves you know you are in serious trouble as a franchise.

These aren't crazy chess piece moves. It doesn't take a Presti to make such sound moves. You obviously can't do that if you consistently give away 2nd round picks or sell them for a quick buck. AK at the very least could have dumped Vuc for 2 2nds for some future deal just like this. You could roll Ball into a bigger deal or move him for some other piece in a separate deal. Its classic mismanagement, top down.

[MrFortune3]

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How do you not make this deal??

Because it would cost us roughly 5 mil to trade for him(2.5 mil per 2nd rounder).

[MrFortune3]

Whitmore for 2 2nd picks is better value than Okuro for Ball.

When the Wizards make better moves you know you are in serious trouble as a franchise.

These aren't crazy chess piece moves. It doesn't take a Presti to make such sound moves. You obviously can't do that if you consistently give away 2nd round picks or sell them for a quick buck. AK at the very least could have dumped Vuc for 2 2nds for some future deal just like this. You could roll Ball into a bigger deal or move him for some other piece in a separate deal. Its classic mismanagement, top down.

Luckily, that is not now nor has it been true since they were the Bullets.

[Ben]

Because that's a 5 game sample size ^

Well it's true that that particular infographic is based on a very small size, but in all fairness he's played 1707 minutes in two seasons and, per 36 minutes, has averaged 22.3pp and 7.0rpg. Has shot 44.9% from the field and 35.7% from 3P.
In those 1707 minutes, PER of 16.1 and positive advanced stats in other areas (adjusted +/-, VORP, etc).

I don't know whether that's been during garbage time, and whether it's replicable in a starter's role, but I'd much rather have a 20 year old (about to turn 21) who's already shown that much at the NBA level than someone coming out of college who's not yet shown anything. Which is to say that I would probably take him over most of the top 2025 draft picks outside of the top 5. And he went for two 2nd round draft picks.

[nomorezorro]

it sounds like the rockets might have done whitmore a favor and dealt him to his hometown team / a spot where he has a pretty clear path to playing time

[Muzbar]

I'm not one to defend the front office. So whilst I agree that this is a deal the Bulls should have made.

Is it possible that Whitmore may not have wanted to play here (due to the amount of forwards already on the roster) and as such were not given an opportunity to make this kind of offer, or were refuted because of the other reason I mentioned above.

It was reported that the Rockets were working with his agents to find him a suitable situation.

[Infinity2152]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

[GoBlue72391]

Would make no sense to trade picks to get Whitmore this year. Y'all can write off Terry, Phillips, Williams, Okoro if you want, but they likely all get minutes this year. Cam Whitmore is a career sub 36% 3pt shooter, that 47% is misleading as hell. Career TS 56%, VORP .5, BPM .2, DPBM -.7


Matas, Noa and maybe Huerter and Ayo will all play forward minutes too. There's no room to add another player to evaluate. Clearly they didn't want a player back, we'd have had to pay and waive a player plus send picks to add Whitmore to barely play.

We should be buying low on talented young players, even if they're unproven or unestablished. Terry, Phillips, and Williams suck and have no future. Okoro isn't much better. We shouldn't NOT be acquiring talented young guys because we're worried about taking minutes from our untalented young guys or worried about not having enough roster spots.

Phillips is a 2nd round pick and can easily be waived with no repercussions. Terry and Carter are in the last year of their contract and can also easily be waived.

Whitmore is better, younger, has more potential, and has infinitely outproduced all those guys. He's 20 years old and has career per 36 averages of 22 and 7 with 45/36/71 shooting splits. He's so much more talented than any of the dead weight we have clogging up the back end of our roster.

Terry career:
TS% 53
VORP -0.4
BPM -2.8
DPBM 0.7

Phillips career:
Idk, his basketball reference page isn't working for me.

Williams career:
TS% 56
VORP -0.5
BPM -2.3
DPBM 0.0

I'll reiterate; these are the types of trades we should be making. The cost is two 2nd round picks. That's nothing. We sell them off for cash or use them to draft no-ceiling guys like Olbricht.

[GoBlue72391]

Would make no sense to trade picks to get Whitmore this year. Y'all can write off Terry, Phillips, Williams, Okoro if you want, but they likely all get minutes this year. Cam Whitmore is a career sub 36% 3pt shooter, that 47% is misleading as hell. Career TS 56%, VORP .5, BPM .2, DPBM -.7


Matas, Noa and maybe Huerter and Ayo will all play forward minutes too. There's no room to add another player to evaluate. Clearly they didn't want a player back, we'd have had to pay and waive a player plus send picks to add Whitmore to barely play.

I'd rather take a chance on Whitmore than Okoro, but that ship sailed awhile ago.

Exactly. Whitmore's not a bad shot, but not for us right now. We have too many developmental forwards for maybe the first time in 10 years. This is not the year to give up picks to add another prospect with two years left on his rookie contract. We'll have plenty of open roster spots next summer.

Okoro looks to help defensively way more than Whitmore. Personally, with this team, I take the defensive player next to Coby and Giddey.

Well, if that's the case, the question then becomes: Why are we prioritizing our untalented bums over acquiring talented players? Isn't the point of basketball to improve your team?

Even if you like Okoro, fine, then get rid of one of Phillips or Terry or Carter. I would say Pat, but he's not going anywhere for a long time. Those guys shouldn't be stopping us from doing anything. They're irrelevant and have no future here, so we shouldn't be making or not making roster decisions because of them. That's just bad GM'ing.

Oh, we couldn't possibly acquire this talented young player for pennies on the dollar when we have 4 other significantly worse players who play the same position!

[Ben]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. Those advanced stats are very good for someone who was 19 and 20 during the two seasons when they were achieved.

[GoBlue72391]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

So waive them? What's the big deal? Teams waive guys all the time.

Waive Phillips, Terry or Carter, they're in the last year of their deals anyway and provide nothing.

It's ridiculous to hamstring ourselves because we have about 4 or 5 guys who are dead weight on our roster. Why are we prioritizing these guys who have no future with this team?

[GoBlue72391]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. Those advanced stats are very good for someone who was 19 and 20 during the two seasons when they were achieved.

And the guys he's comparing them to have significantly worse numbers despite being older.

[Infinity2152]

Bulls team as currently constructed/probable rotations, let's estimate minutes.

Giddey/Tre Jones/Carter: Giddey 32, Jones 16, Carter zero
Coby White/Ayo/Terry : White 34, Ayo 14, Terry zero
Okoro/Huerter/Phillips: Okoro 28, Huerter 16, Phillips 0 (williams will play SF/PF)
Matas/Williams/Essengue: Matas 32/Williams 14/Noa 8
Vucevic/Collins/Smith : Vucevic 30, Collins 16, Smith zero


Having watched Donovan's rotations for years, does this seem about accurate?

That's about close to even and has Carter, Phillips, Terry and Smith getting zero minutes already. The players we would need to buy out or get rid of in order for Whitmore to see any real minutes would be Ayo, Huerter or Williams. Houston did not want money back. Even buying Vucevic out, Collins and Smith easily eat the center minutes.

[dumbell78]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

So waive them? What's the big deal? Teams waive guys all the time.

Waive Phillips, Terry or Carter, they're in the last year of their deals anyway and provide nothing.

It's ridiculous to hamstring ourselves because we have about 4 or 5 guys who are dead weight on our roster. Why are we prioritizing these guys who have no future with this team?

The Phillips/Terry/Carter trifecta makes it hard for us to trade, I've heard it all. We got a whole line up of guys that shouldn't be on the roster lol.

[GoBlue72391]

Bulls team as currently constructed/probable rotations, let's estimate minutes.

Giddey/Tre Jones/Carter: Giddey 32, Jones 16, Carter zero
Coby White/Ayo/Terry : White 34, Ayo 14, Terry zero
Okoro/Huerter/Phillips: Okoro 28, Huerter 16, Phillips 0 (williams will play SF/PF)
Matas/Williams/Essengue: Matas 32/Williams 14/Noa 8
Vucevic/Collins/Smith : Vucevic 30, Collins 16, Smith zero


Having watched Donovan's rotations for years, does this seem about accurate?

That's about close to even and has Carter, Phillips, Terry and Smith getting zero minutes already. The players we would need to buy out or get rid of in order for Whitmore to see any real minutes would be Ayo, Huerter or Williams. Houston did not want money back. Even buying Vucevic out, Collins and Smith easily eat the center minutes.

It's so funny. The three guys you were just defending not acquiring other young players for, you have getting a combined 0 minutes between them. Now it's not Terry/Phillips/Carter that's the problem, it's the guys who actually play as the reason we can't acquire anymore young, talented players. The goal posts are moving.

We shouldn't be worrying about roster spots, or having to waive someone, or how the rotations will shake out...we should just be trying to acquire as much talent as possible, especially if it's at bargain prices. That other stuff will sort itself out in the end.

Billy's rotations change all the time, and guys get hurt or get in the dog house. Ayo is recovering from injury, and we don't know when he'll be ready or how he'll play when he returns. Essengue will probably be shuffled back and forth from the G League. Williams shouldn't be getting any minutes whatsoever. Play him for a month to try to get him to a tradeable level. After that, dump him in a trade, or if that's not possible, make him DNP-CD.

We're the freakin' perpetually under .500 Bulls...a guy like Whitmore would find minutes here lol

[Infinity2152]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

So waive them? What's the big deal? Teams waive guys all the time.

Waive Phillips, Terry or Carter, they're in the last year of their deals anyway and provide nothing.

It's ridiculous to hamstring ourselves because we have about 4 or 5 guys who are dead weight on our roster. Why are we prioritizing these guys who have no future with this team?

The guys you're talking about waiving weren't getting any minutes anyway. He's not getting minutes. Our forwards are Matas, Noa, Williams, Okoro as the top four. The only one he gets minutes in front of is likely Noa, which I absolutely don't want.

Then you all are proceeding under the assumption that Whitmore is better than Terry and Phillips. Quite possibly true, but for every excuse guys are giving for Cam not putting up better stats because of opportunity and age, those apply to Terry and Phillips too. We know Donovan will just not play guys, look at Jalen Smith.

Teams usually waive guys with a purpose. Not against waiving guys and signing prospects, it's not my money. You guys are real quick to say just give away millions for little to no gain, lmao! We waive Dalen Terry, that's $5 mill. Then we send two draft picks. Then we pay Whitmore's salary for him to get no minutes, plus the $5 mill we just ate. The next year, he's expiring so maybe we get a good year to evaluate him before he hits RFA.

I'm assuming the Bulls plan to rehab Williams value. They're going to have to play him to do that. I like the Okoro fit way more than the Cam Whitmore fit. Especially if Vucevic is still here. This is the last chance for some of our young guys, would rather take a chance on them than pay 2 picks to take a chance on Whitmore with 2 years left on contract. The Rockets were fine taking 2 seconds, maybe they know more about their guy than we do. They traded Jalen Green and Dillon Brooks, KD's not playing as many minutes as both of them put together. Minutes opened up and they decided they don't need him.

Can we let Okoro, Williams, Noa, Matas play maybe three games before we decide we need another forward? Never mind Huerter, terry and Phillips. I wnt those four to get minutes please.

[GoBlue72391]

Once again, Houston was clearing more cap. We do not have roster spots, I don't think. If we trade 2 seconds for Whitmore, we also have to waive somebody. Also, Houston reportedly had several offers and sent Cam where he wanted to go.

His career advanced stats are VORP .5, TS 55.5%, BPM .2, DPBM -.7, OPBM .9. With 36% 3 pt shooting as a wing. Sure his per 36 would look high, in his 17 mins/gm, average usage is 26. He's been decidedly average efficiency wise.

So waive them? What's the big deal? Teams waive guys all the time.

Waive Phillips, Terry or Carter, they're in the last year of their deals anyway and provide nothing.

It's ridiculous to hamstring ourselves because we have about 4 or 5 guys who are dead weight on our roster. Why are we prioritizing these guys who have no future with this team?

The guys you're talking about waiving weren't getting any minutes anyway. He's not getting minutes. Our forwards are Matas, Noa, Williams, Okoro as the top four. The only one he gets minutes in front of is likely Noa, which I absolutely don't want.

Then you all are proceeding under the assumption that Whitmore is better than Terry and Phillips. Quite possibly true, but for every excuse guys are giving for Cam not putting up better stats because of opportunity and age, those apply to Terry and Phillips too. We know Donovan will just not play guys, look at Jalen Smith.

Teams usually waive guys with a purpose. Not against waiving guys and signing prospects, it's not my money. You guys are real quick to say just give away millions for little to no gain, lmao! We waive Dalen Terry, that's $5 mill. Then we send two draft picks. Then we pay Whitmore's salary for him to get no minutes, plus the $5 mill we just ate. The next year, he's expiring so maybe we get a good year to evaluate him before he hits RFA.

I'm assuming the Bulls plan to rehab Williams value. They're going to have to play him to do that. I like the Okoro fit way more than the Cam Whitmore fit. Especially if Vucevic is still here. This is the last chance for some of our young guys, would rather take a chance on them than pay 2 picks to take a chance on Whitmore with 2 years left on contract. The Rockets were fine taking 2 seconds, maybe they know more about their guy than we do. They traded Jalen Green and Dillon Brooks, KD's not playing as many minutes as both of them put together. Minutes opened up and they decided they don't need him.

I've addressed most of these points in a following post in this thread. Don't know if you've seen it yet.

But one thing I'll add is this: I never even said "We should have made this trade!" I said these are the types of trades we should be making...acquiring young, talented players for pennies on the dollar. That could be Whitmore or any other young, talented player.

We should be trying to stockpile as much young talent as possible, especially when it comes cheap.

[Infinity2152]

So waive them? What's the big deal? Teams waive guys all the time.

Waive Phillips, Terry or Carter, they're in the last year of their deals anyway and provide nothing.

It's ridiculous to hamstring ourselves because we have about 4 or 5 guys who are dead weight on our roster. Why are we prioritizing these guys who have no future with this team?

The guys you're talking about waiving weren't getting any minutes anyway. He's not getting minutes. Our forwards are Matas, Noa, Williams, Okoro as the top four. The only one he gets minutes in front of is likely Noa, which I absolutely don't want.

Then you all are proceeding under the assumption that Whitmore is better than Terry and Phillips. Quite possibly true, but for every excuse guys are giving for Cam not putting up better stats because of opportunity and age, those apply to Terry and Phillips too. We know Donovan will just not play guys, look at Jalen Smith.

Teams usually waive guys with a purpose. Not against waiving guys and signing prospects, it's not my money. You guys are real quick to say just give away millions for little to no gain, lmao! We waive Dalen Terry, that's $5 mill. Then we send two draft picks. Then we pay Whitmore's salary for him to get no minutes, plus the $5 mill we just ate. The next year, he's expiring so maybe we get a good year to evaluate him before he hits RFA.

I'm assuming the Bulls plan to rehab Williams value. They're going to have to play him to do that. I like the Okoro fit way more than the Cam Whitmore fit. Especially if Vucevic is still here. This is the last chance for some of our young guys, would rather take a chance on them than pay 2 picks to take a chance on Whitmore with 2 years left on contract. The Rockets were fine taking 2 seconds, maybe they know more about their guy than we do. They traded Jalen Green and Dillon Brooks, KD's not playing as many minutes as both of them put together. Minutes opened up and they decided they don't need him.

I've addressed most of these points in a following post in this thread. Don't know if you've seen it yet.

But one thing I'll add is this: I never even said "We should have made this trade!" I said these are the types of trades we should be making...acquiring young, talented players for pennies on the dollar. That could be Whitmore or any other young, talented player.

We should be trying to stockpile as much young talent as possible, especially when it comes cheap.

I can agree with that. Like I said, it would be different next year, imo. We'll have open roster spots for one. I don't see us trading Terry or Phillips, so we might as well see what they have. Phillips could still surprise, kid is crazy long and athletic. Terry could too. It costs us nothing to find out.

Everybody complains about AK being too free trading second round picks. Huge complaints draft night, and he got another second back that let us keep a roster spot open. Guys like Cam Whitmore are available every year. The Okoro move was the same move imo. He just got a player with a higher defensive ceiling rather than offensive ceiling. We just traded for a SF and drafted a lottery pick forward in a month, just a bad use of resources trading picks to get another forward prospect right now. Save those picks for a real move, not to add a 12th man.

Having to waive a player sounds like nothing, but it adds to the cost. The fact that you're waiving a young player, the player you get back had better be better or you really screwed up. Everybody can want what they want, but I don't know if AK is ready to give up on all these young guys.

This is why I've wanted us to do a consolidation trade so bad. Trade two mid guys for a good guy, tighten up the minutes and open up opportunities for young players. Only 10 guys typically play on a 15 man roster, 17 with two ways.

[Chi town]

Cam plays no D. Vuc level defender.

I’d still take him over Okoro.

This scenario is a great illustration for what I continually say about AK…

He wants to win not build a winner.

Okoro is the win and Cam is the winner.

Fully agree with those saying this is what we should be doing but AK wants to raise the floor not raise the ceiling.

[Infinity2152]

All depends on your objectives for the year. If you care about developing Matas and Giddey, getting them more shots, Okoro's an easy choice over Whitmore. If Coby's here, he's taking a lot of shots. If Vucevic is here, he's taking a lot of shots. Giddey and Matas need shots. A 3 and D SF who can play POA defense is great for us right now.

We can't keep focusing on 12th and 13th players to the detriment of the players we have now. There's reason to think Okoro starts at SF. They say Houston had multiple offers for Whitmore, we may have been one anyway. We still have our seconds to use in another trade.