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HumbleRen wrote:bape_lovers wrote:Never understood the RJ hate, he is 3rd pick which tWo loves.
Never understood the RJ love. Volume numbers, low impact, something team compete hates.
HumbleRen wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
No, that’s your argument. My argument is I like Whitmore better than RJ for our team because he’s 10X cheaper and is willing to come off the bench.
You have 0 evidence of RJ wanting to come off the bench for us, nor do you honestly even believe he would contemplate coming off the bench for our team. Stop lying to yourself, it’s embarrassing lol.
What is embarrassing is thinking RJ wouldn’t be willing to come off the bench. In one post you act like RJ is not good while simultaneously thinking he is too good to come off the bench. What is it? Better players than RJ have been made bench players without complaint.
Trading RJ straight up for Whitmore would be legitimately horrible for us. Even from a cap space perspective, we wouldn’t be able to sign anyone with the cap savings we would obtain - it would be a legitimately negative trade from all aspects.
The RJ hate is unreal and legitimately unfounded.
Again, you’re letting your Canadian bias for him come into play.
Why would a guy take a bench role when he’s seeking an extension that the Raptors are clearly not giving him. We’re talking about a dude who has negative value around the league as an asset. Why would he come off the bench for a middling team even if it makes sense for us.
He was the third pick in a draft who got salary dumped by the team who drafted him and his value has not gotten better since he’s got here. He is what he is, he’s a fooled a decently sized segment of the raps community with his volume numbers but nobody intelligent in the league is going to fall for it.
Making fun of Whitmore for going for 2 2nd round picks but at the same time propping up RJ and Gradey like they wouldn’t also go for 2nd round picks is hilarious.
Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:What is embarrassing is thinking RJ wouldn’t be willing to come off the bench. In one post you act like RJ is not good while simultaneously thinking he is too good to come off the bench. What is it? Better players than RJ have been made bench players without complaint.
Trading RJ straight up for Whitmore would be legitimately horrible for us. Even from a cap space perspective, we wouldn’t be able to sign anyone with the cap savings we would obtain - it would be a legitimately negative trade from all aspects.
The RJ hate is unreal and legitimately unfounded.
Again, you’re letting your Canadian bias for him come into play.
Why would a guy take a bench role when he’s seeking an extension that the Raptors are clearly not giving him. We’re talking about a dude who has negative value around the league as an asset. Why would he come off the bench for a middling team even if it makes sense for us.
He was the third pick in a draft who got salary dumped by the team who drafted him and his value has not gotten better since he’s got here. He is what he is, he’s a fooled a decently sized segment of the raps community with his volume numbers but nobody intelligent in the league is going to fall for it.
Making fun of Whitmore for going for 2 2nd round picks but at the same time propping up RJ and Gradey like they wouldn’t also go for 2nd round picks is hilarious.
I’d honestly be in shock if Gradey was dumped for 2nd round picks. He’s shown enough in this league to not get dumped for nothing. Whitmore has zero value and his team gave up on him after 2 seasons. That’s a horrible sign.
RJ is in a different situation. He’s a solid player but makes too much and teams have been very tight with their money this offseason.
You can talk about salaries all you want but one thing that doesn’t change is Whitmore is a bad basketball player. Sure you’re paying a lot less but he stinks and that’s going to hurt your basketball team.
HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
Again, you’re letting your Canadian bias for him come into play.
Why would a guy take a bench role when he’s seeking an extension that the Raptors are clearly not giving him. We’re talking about a dude who has negative value around the league as an asset. Why would he come off the bench for a middling team even if it makes sense for us.
He was the third pick in a draft who got salary dumped by the team who drafted him and his value has not gotten better since he’s got here. He is what he is, he’s a fooled a decently sized segment of the raps community with his volume numbers but nobody intelligent in the league is going to fall for it.
Making fun of Whitmore for going for 2 2nd round picks but at the same time propping up RJ and Gradey like they wouldn’t also go for 2nd round picks is hilarious.
I’d honestly be in shock if Gradey was dumped for 2nd round picks. He’s shown enough in this league to not get dumped for nothing. Whitmore has zero value and his team gave up on him after 2 seasons. That’s a horrible sign.
RJ is in a different situation. He’s a solid player but makes too much and teams have been very tight with their money this offseason.
You can talk about salaries all you want but one thing that doesn’t change is Whitmore is a bad basketball player. Sure you’re paying a lot less but he stinks and that’s going to hurt your basketball team.
I think you’re misreading the value of our players then.
Gradey is not getting a first pick as a return package lol. He’s shown nothing these 2 years to be able to fetch anything of note. We already know RJ has no value so we don’t have to play that hypothetical.
Not being able to crack Ime’s rotation doesn’t mean you suck. Gradey wouldn’t get minutes either on that team, RJ would struggle to play 25 mins a night on that team. The third pick last year couldn’t even crack his rotation.
YogurtProducer wrote:HumbleRen wrote:bape_lovers wrote:so why you hate RJ but like Cam whitemore? arent they the same?
Because one guy makes 3M a year and the other makes nearly 10X more than that. One is also willing to come off the bench, the other is adamant to be a starter and wants an extension that makes more than what he makes right now.
I don’t see either being positive starters on playoff caliber teams for what it’s worth.
Whitmore just asked out because he wasn’t playing and there is zero inclination RJ wouldn’t come off the bench.
You’re also missing RJ is miles better in literally every aspect
Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:
I’d honestly be in shock if Gradey was dumped for 2nd round picks. He’s shown enough in this league to not get dumped for nothing. Whitmore has zero value and his team gave up on him after 2 seasons. That’s a horrible sign.
RJ is in a different situation. He’s a solid player but makes too much and teams have been very tight with their money this offseason.
You can talk about salaries all you want but one thing that doesn’t change is Whitmore is a bad basketball player. Sure you’re paying a lot less but he stinks and that’s going to hurt your basketball team.
I think you’re misreading the value of our players then.
Gradey is not getting a first pick as a return package lol. He’s shown nothing these 2 years to be able to fetch anything of note. We already know RJ has no value so we don’t have to play that hypothetical.
Not being able to crack Ime’s rotation doesn’t mean you suck. Gradey wouldn’t get minutes either on that team, RJ would struggle to play 25 mins a night on that team. The third pick last year couldn’t even crack his rotation.
I’m not saying Gradey can return a FRP. The point is I don’t think the team would give up on him after two seasons. He’s shown enough flashes that a team would want to hold onto him. It’s very rare for a team to give up on a player after two years. When that happens it basically means you stink and they see no future. You’re lying to yourself if you think Whitmore is some kind of hidden gem. Houston is actually trying to compete as well so if Whitmore was any good they most certainly wouldn’t be trading him for a 2nd round pick.
The 3rd pick is more like a late lottery pick in a normal draft. The draft was awful. Tari Eason had no problem getting consistent minutes. Ime plays you if you are good. RJ would get minutes there too.
RJ does have value as a player. The issue is making contracts work in a cap tight environment. Players who are worse than RJ and have worse contracts are getting traded and they are getting traded for good NBA players. Your opinion of RJ is simply not grounded in reality and I’m far from an RJ fan.
OakleyDokely wrote:What 2nds are the Rockets getting? If they are WAS 2nds, those are going to be good, likely in the low 30s.
Whitmore is way too one-dimensional for my liking. If you lack playnaking skills and court awareness, your ceiling is pretty low in the modern NBA. It's worth a shot for WAS, but i doubt he ever becomes a difference maker.
HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
I think you’re misreading the value of our players then.
Gradey is not getting a first pick as a return package lol. He’s shown nothing these 2 years to be able to fetch anything of note. We already know RJ has no value so we don’t have to play that hypothetical.
Not being able to crack Ime’s rotation doesn’t mean you suck. Gradey wouldn’t get minutes either on that team, RJ would struggle to play 25 mins a night on that team. The third pick last year couldn’t even crack his rotation.
I’m not saying Gradey can return a FRP. The point is I don’t think the team would give up on him after two seasons. He’s shown enough flashes that a team would want to hold onto him. It’s very rare for a team to give up on a player after two years. When that happens it basically means you stink and they see no future. You’re lying to yourself if you think Whitmore is some kind of hidden gem. Houston is actually trying to compete as well so if Whitmore was any good they most certainly wouldn’t be trading him for a 2nd round pick.
The 3rd pick is more like a late lottery pick in a normal draft. The draft was awful. Tari Eason had no problem getting consistent minutes. Ime plays you if you are good. RJ would get minutes there too.
RJ does have value as a player. The issue is making contracts work in a cap tight environment. Players who are worse than RJ and have worse contracts are getting traded and they are getting traded for good NBA players. Your opinion of RJ is simply not grounded in reality and I’m far from an RJ fan.
We wouldn’t because we’re a bad team. For the rockets who are probably a top 5 team in the league? If you can move off someone you aren’t going to play, you do that. Especially if the guy wants to be traded.
When I say RJ doesn’t have value, I mean that nobody is going to give up a first for him nor give us anything of value for him. He got SALARY DUMPED for OG. I repeat, he got SALARY DUMPED.
The players who are “worse” than RJ are getting traded because the team has to attach something to get them traded. That’s the whole point of being a negative asset. You have to attach something to make a team incentivized to accept that player. That’s essentially what RJ is.
sbsat wrote:This board said every team was stupid for passing on whitmore. Now houston has given up on him. Stop coping maybe he wasnt as good as u thought he was
Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:
I’m not saying Gradey can return a FRP. The point is I don’t think the team would give up on him after two seasons. He’s shown enough flashes that a team would want to hold onto him. It’s very rare for a team to give up on a player after two years. When that happens it basically means you stink and they see no future. You’re lying to yourself if you think Whitmore is some kind of hidden gem. Houston is actually trying to compete as well so if Whitmore was any good they most certainly wouldn’t be trading him for a 2nd round pick.
The 3rd pick is more like a late lottery pick in a normal draft. The draft was awful. Tari Eason had no problem getting consistent minutes. Ime plays you if you are good. RJ would get minutes there too.
RJ does have value as a player. The issue is making contracts work in a cap tight environment. Players who are worse than RJ and have worse contracts are getting traded and they are getting traded for good NBA players. Your opinion of RJ is simply not grounded in reality and I’m far from an RJ fan.
We wouldn’t because we’re a bad team. For the rockets who are probably a top 5 team in the league? If you can move off someone you aren’t going to play, you do that. Especially if the guy wants to be traded.
When I say RJ doesn’t have value, I mean that nobody is going to give up a first for him nor give us anything of value for him. He got SALARY DUMPED for OG. I repeat, he got SALARY DUMPED.
The players who are “worse” than RJ are getting traded because the team has to attach something to get them traded. That’s the whole point of being a negative asset. You have to attach something to make a team incentivized to accept that player. That’s essentially what RJ is.
If he was good he would play. The Rockets did everything in their power to make sure there are no minutes for him because he’s a bad basketball player. Traded for KD, signed DFS, re-signed Fred. They basically don’t want this guy sniffing the court and if he was any good the Rockets would love to play him because he’s cheap and they could use that money elsewhere.
And you keep saying he got salary dumped and it’s actually starting to get embarrassing. Not to mention disingenuous.
Knicks originally offered FRPs. They wanted to retain RJ. One NBA insider according to an article in SI stated “The Knicks were originally hoping to hold onto Barrett and use their deep stash of first-round picks to get Anunoby.”
It was the Raptors that insisted on getting young, ready to contribute players and not draft picks.
What did the Wizards trade to get out of Poole’s contract? CJ’s contract expires at the end of the year. RJ is making 27 million a year for the next two seasons and he’s a solid player.
HumbleRen wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:What 2nds are the Rockets getting? If they are WAS 2nds, those are going to be good, likely in the low 30s.
Whitmore is way too one-dimensional for my liking. If you lack playnaking skills and court awareness, your ceiling is pretty low in the modern NBA. It's worth a shot for WAS, but i doubt he ever becomes a difference maker.
I think he’s going to be a solid 6-8th man. Similar to Ben Mauthrin’s role on the Pacers.
HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
We wouldn’t because we’re a bad team. For the rockets who are probably a top 5 team in the league? If you can move off someone you aren’t going to play, you do that. Especially if the guy wants to be traded.
When I say RJ doesn’t have value, I mean that nobody is going to give up a first for him nor give us anything of value for him. He got SALARY DUMPED for OG. I repeat, he got SALARY DUMPED.
The players who are “worse” than RJ are getting traded because the team has to attach something to get them traded. That’s the whole point of being a negative asset. You have to attach something to make a team incentivized to accept that player. That’s essentially what RJ is.
If he was good he would play. The Rockets did everything in their power to make sure there are no minutes for him because he’s a bad basketball player. Traded for KD, signed DFS, re-signed Fred. They basically don’t want this guy sniffing the court and if he was any good the Rockets would love to play him because he’s cheap and they could use that money elsewhere.
And you keep saying he got salary dumped and it’s actually starting to get embarrassing. Not to mention disingenuous.
Knicks originally offered FRPs. They wanted to retain RJ. One NBA insider according to an article in SI stated “The Knicks were originally hoping to hold onto Barrett and use their deep stash of first-round picks to get Anunoby.”
It was the Raptors that insisted on getting young, ready to contribute players and not draft picks.
What did the Wizards trade to get out of Poole’s contract? CJ’s contract expires at the end of the year. RJ is making 27 million a year for the next two seasons and he’s a solid player.
I disagree. Jalen Green wasn’t good, he still played a significant amount of minutes. Sometimes it’s just politics.
RJ did get salary dumped, I’m not listening to your copium about how much of a L that trade was. Nobody wants an inefficient guard who can’t provide spacing or defend at that price.
In fact, tell me what you think RJ can get us in the open market if you’re so adamant he isn’t a negative asset. Go on then, let me have a good laugh.
CJ is a better contract than RJ for the sole fact that his contract is an expiring contract while we’re still locked with paying 60M to RJ over the next 2 years. It’s pretty simple Los.
Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:
If he was good he would play. The Rockets did everything in their power to make sure there are no minutes for him because he’s a bad basketball player. Traded for KD, signed DFS, re-signed Fred. They basically don’t want this guy sniffing the court and if he was any good the Rockets would love to play him because he’s cheap and they could use that money elsewhere.
And you keep saying he got salary dumped and it’s actually starting to get embarrassing. Not to mention disingenuous.
Knicks originally offered FRPs. They wanted to retain RJ. One NBA insider according to an article in SI stated “The Knicks were originally hoping to hold onto Barrett and use their deep stash of first-round picks to get Anunoby.”
It was the Raptors that insisted on getting young, ready to contribute players and not draft picks.
What did the Wizards trade to get out of Poole’s contract? CJ’s contract expires at the end of the year. RJ is making 27 million a year for the next two seasons and he’s a solid player.
I disagree. Jalen Green wasn’t good, he still played a significant amount of minutes. Sometimes it’s just politics.
RJ did get salary dumped, I’m not listening to your copium about how much of a L that trade was. Nobody wants an inefficient guard who can’t provide spacing or defend at that price.
In fact, tell me what you think RJ can get us in the open market if you’re so adamant he isn’t a negative asset. Go on then, let me have a good laugh.
CJ is a better contract than RJ for the sole fact that his contract is an expiring contract while we’re still locked with paying 60M to RJ over the next 2 years. It’s pretty simple Los.
lol I’m far from a Green fan as you’d know because we’ve argued about him before. But even then Green is way better than Whitmore and it’s not even close. It’s not politics. Ime is there to win and he’s going to play his best players.
I don’t care about your hot takes. I care about the facts. We all know what you’re trying to do here but it means nothing if you can’t provide evidence to what you are saying. Eventually you are going to have to come forward with something. I gave you actual reasons why RJ was not a salary dump. You’ve given me nothing. I am not a fan of RJ and would like to see him traded for a better fit. But I can also be objective about him which you can’t seem to do.
And my god, you just proved my point. It’s Poole’s contract that is bad (worse than RJ’s) and the Wizards got out of it for an expiring without having to trade anything back. How are you not getting this? This is frightening.
HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
I disagree. Jalen Green wasn’t good, he still played a significant amount of minutes. Sometimes it’s just politics.
RJ did get salary dumped, I’m not listening to your copium about how much of a L that trade was. Nobody wants an inefficient guard who can’t provide spacing or defend at that price.
In fact, tell me what you think RJ can get us in the open market if you’re so adamant he isn’t a negative asset. Go on then, let me have a good laugh.
CJ is a better contract than RJ for the sole fact that his contract is an expiring contract while we’re still locked with paying 60M to RJ over the next 2 years. It’s pretty simple Los.
lol I’m far from a Green fan as you’d know because we’ve argued about him before. But even then Green is way better than Whitmore and it’s not even close. It’s not politics. Ime is there to win and he’s going to play his best players.
I don’t care about your hot takes. I care about the facts. We all know what you’re trying to do here but it means nothing if you can’t provide evidence to what you are saying. Eventually you are going to have to come forward with something. I gave you actual reasons why RJ was not a salary dump. You’ve given me nothing. I am not a fan of RJ and would like to see him traded for a better fit. But I can also be objective about him which you can’t seem to do.
And my god, you just proved my point. It’s Poole’s contract that is bad (worse than RJ’s) and the Wizards got out of it for an expiring without having to trade anything back. How are you not getting this? This is frightening.
You’re proving my point though, Green wasn’t one of the 5 best players on the team. He got his minutes because they made an investment on a top 2 pick and had to see it through. That’s politics. It took Jabari Smith getting injured for them to finally start Amen Thompson. There was no reason to bench Amen for JG outside of politics.
As for your last point, it’s making me laugh that you simply don’t get it lol. The reward is hurting your salary cap short term to get off Poole’s contract.
That’s what we basically have to do with RJ if we want to trade him, that doesn’t mean he’s a positive asset.
Cute that you’re avoiding my question on what exactly do you think we can get for RJ if you think he’s a positive asset lol.
Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:Los_29 wrote:
lol I’m far from a Green fan as you’d know because we’ve argued about him before. But even then Green is way better than Whitmore and it’s not even close. It’s not politics. Ime is there to win and he’s going to play his best players.
I don’t care about your hot takes. I care about the facts. We all know what you’re trying to do here but it means nothing if you can’t provide evidence to what you are saying. Eventually you are going to have to come forward with something. I gave you actual reasons why RJ was not a salary dump. You’ve given me nothing. I am not a fan of RJ and would like to see him traded for a better fit. But I can also be objective about him which you can’t seem to do.
And my god, you just proved my point. It’s Poole’s contract that is bad (worse than RJ’s) and the Wizards got out of it for an expiring without having to trade anything back. How are you not getting this? This is frightening.
You’re proving my point though, Green wasn’t one of the 5 best players on the team. He got his minutes because they made an investment on a top 2 pick and had to see it through. That’s politics. It took Jabari Smith getting injured for them to finally start Amen Thompson. There was no reason to bench Amen for JG outside of politics.
As for your last point, it’s making me laugh that you simply don’t get it lol. The reward is hurting your salary cap short term to get off Poole’s contract.
That’s what we basically have to do with RJ if we want to trade him, that doesn’t mean he’s a positive asset.
Cute that you’re avoiding my question on what exactly do you think we can get for RJ if you think he’s a positive asset lol.
Jalen Green was the best they had at SG. They aren’t invested in Jalen Green, in fact they didn’t even want to give him a long term deal. Amen was always getting minutes as well. It’s not like he was buried on the bench. At the end of the day Whitmore stinks. Ime Udoka is there to win games, he will play who he thinks are the best options.
And man, I’m not kidding, it’s painful having this discussion with you because you’re just constantly veering off topic and shifting goal posts. You know you’re wrong and it’s abundantly clear in your responses. Just read through your responses and you’ll realize just how nonsensical they really are. I honestly think you’re intentionally doing this because there is absolutely no way you’re trying to argue in good faith here.
Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:What is embarrassing is thinking RJ wouldn’t be willing to come off the bench. In one post you act like RJ is not good while simultaneously thinking he is too good to come off the bench. What is it? Better players than RJ have been made bench players without complaint.
Trading RJ straight up for Whitmore would be legitimately horrible for us. Even from a cap space perspective, we wouldn’t be able to sign anyone with the cap savings we would obtain - it would be a legitimately negative trade from all aspects.
The RJ hate is unreal and legitimately unfounded.
Again, you’re letting your Canadian bias for him come into play.
Why would a guy take a bench role when he’s seeking an extension that the Raptors are clearly not giving him. We’re talking about a dude who has negative value around the league as an asset. Why would he come off the bench for a middling team even if it makes sense for us.
He was the third pick in a draft who got salary dumped by the team who drafted him and his value has not gotten better since he’s got here. He is what he is, he’s a fooled a decently sized segment of the raps community with his volume numbers but nobody intelligent in the league is going to fall for it.
Making fun of Whitmore for going for 2 2nd round picks but at the same time propping up RJ and Gradey like they wouldn’t also go for 2nd round picks is hilarious.
I’d honestly be in shock if Gradey was dumped for 2nd round picks. He’s shown enough in this league to not get dumped for nothing. Whitmore has zero value and his team gave up on him after 2 seasons. That’s a horrible sign.
RJ is in a different situation. He’s a solid player but makes too much and teams have been very tight with their money this offseason.
You can talk about salaries all you want but one thing that doesn’t change is Whitmore is a bad basketball player. Sure you’re paying a lot less but he stinks and that’s going to hurt your basketball team.
Appostis wrote:Los_29 wrote:HumbleRen wrote:
Again, you’re letting your Canadian bias for him come into play.
Why would a guy take a bench role when he’s seeking an extension that the Raptors are clearly not giving him. We’re talking about a dude who has negative value around the league as an asset. Why would he come off the bench for a middling team even if it makes sense for us.
He was the third pick in a draft who got salary dumped by the team who drafted him and his value has not gotten better since he’s got here. He is what he is, he’s a fooled a decently sized segment of the raps community with his volume numbers but nobody intelligent in the league is going to fall for it.
Making fun of Whitmore for going for 2 2nd round picks but at the same time propping up RJ and Gradey like they wouldn’t also go for 2nd round picks is hilarious.
I’d honestly be in shock if Gradey was dumped for 2nd round picks. He’s shown enough in this league to not get dumped for nothing. Whitmore has zero value and his team gave up on him after 2 seasons. That’s a horrible sign.
RJ is in a different situation. He’s a solid player but makes too much and teams have been very tight with their money this offseason.
You can talk about salaries all you want but one thing that doesn’t change is Whitmore is a bad basketball player. Sure you’re paying a lot less but he stinks and that’s going to hurt your basketball team.
Dick is not getting traded for a couple decks round picks.. come on people. Stop this nonsense.