Let's talk about a Vuc buyout

[Muzbar]

I only see 2 realistic teams that could use Vucevic.

Golden State Warriors and the Charlotte Hornets.

Both teams are lacking in the 'bigman' department. But GSW doesn't really have the salaries to match whereas the Hornets do, but they'd have to probably do a 2 for 1 deal and the Bulls don't have the roster space.

Pretty much every other team has loaded up on C's so they don't really need Vucevic.

Boston, San Antonio as well..

Boston only really has Simons to trade and the Bulls definitely don't need him.

San Antonio just signed Kornet so they don't really have a need for Vucevic, but if they did, I'd gladly swap Vuc for Barnes.

[Andi Obst]

Have we ever bought someone out?

Yes, and we’ve noted the examples on the board repeatedly in the last few days. Boozer, Wade, Torrey Craig, Duarte…

The Bulls didn't buy out Craig or Duarte. They simply waived them.

[jnrjr79]

Have we ever bought someone out?

Yes, and we’ve noted the examples on the board repeatedly in the last few days. Boozer, Wade, Torrey Craig, Duarte…

The Bulls didn't buy out Craig or Duarte. They simply waived them.

It’s the same thing - it’s just a function of whether the team gets a money back. Waiving players actually shows ownership being more spendy (sort of, since the Bulls spend basically the same amount of money all the time - anything up to the tax, but not the tax).

[HomoSapien]

Obviously not a rumor:

Read on Twitter

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[PistolP]

As much as I’d love the Bulls to be Vuc-less this year, I wouldn’t do that Pistons deal. I’d rather just buy him out than take on two years of Beef Stew’s salary

[Red8911]

Isiah Stewart is the type of defensive/tough center a lot of bulls fans prefer. 24 yrs old too. Definitely intriguing. This team cold also use a character like him.

[Chi town]

As much as I’d love the Bulls to be Vuc-less this year, I wouldn’t do that Pistons deal. I’d rather just buy him out than take on two years of Beef Stew’s salary

I agree.

Beef Stew may have more value around the league at 15M with the ability to play PF and C.

[jordanwilliams6]

Absolutely not to Stewart. We’re not taking back bad long term salary for no reason.

Either trade Vuc for a couple of seconds or hold him and let him expire.

[Infinity2152]

Don't understand the need to rush. Have you all actually looked at Collins, his likely replacement?

Zach Collins last year with Bulls: BPM 0.1, VORP .3, DPBM 0.2, OPBM -0.1, Block % 2.2, Steal % 1.3, DRB% 23%, ORB 12.4%, 3pt% 30%, PER 17.2
Defensive rating per 100 possessions: 114

Vucevic last year with Bulls: BPM 2.6, VORP 2.7, DPBM 0.1, OPBM 2.5, Block% 2.0, Steal% 1.2, DRB% 25%, ORB% 8.3%, 3pt 40%, PER 20
Defensive rating over 100 possessions: 113

His defensive metrics were almost identical to Vucevic's. We should buy Vucevic out to start an expiring equally bad defense player who can't shoot? Collins just has that new player sheen, he's not better than Vucevic. Neither is Smith. There's a reason no one thinks Donovan will start Collins over Vucevic. Coach's job is to win games.

[Muzbar]

Beef Stew essentially only has 1 more year on his deal after this year (his last year is a team option).

I'd definitely do the deal, Stewart can play some time at PF too, I highly doubt Detroit would do it though.

[Andi Obst]

It’s the same thing - it’s just a function of whether the team gets a money back.

Correct, so it's not the same thing. Players have to agree to a buyout, they don't agree to being waived.

[2weekswithpay]

Don't understand the need to rush. Have you all actually looked at Collins, his likely replacement?

Zach Collins last year with Bulls: BPM 0.1, VORP .3, DPBM 0.2, OPBM -0.1, Block % 2.2, Steal % 1.3, DRB% 23%, ORB 12.4%, 3pt% 30%, PER 17.2
Defensive rating per 100 possessions: 114

Vucevic last year with Bulls: BPM 2.6, VORP 2.7, DPBM 0.1, OPBM 2.5, Block% 2.0, Steal% 1.2, DRB% 25%, ORB% 8.3%, 3pt 40%, PER 20
Defensive rating over 100 possessions: 113

His defensive metrics were almost identical to Vucevic's. We should buy Vucevic out to start an expiring equally bad defense player who can't shoot? Collins just has that new player sheen, he's not better than Vucevic. Neither is Smith. There's a reason no one thinks Donovan will start Collins over Vucevic. Coach's job is to win games.

My opinion, you're not looking at the right defensive statistics. Block, steal, and rebound percentage are important, but the rest is useless for evaluating defense.

Look at Vuc's contest stats. Despite being big, he doesn't force misses. Only a -0.9% difference when Vuc contests shots at the rim vs Collins at -7.1%.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[WesPeace]

Absolutely not to Stewart. We’re not taking back bad long term salary for no reason.

Either trade Vuc for a couple of seconds or hold him and let him expire.

2 seasons (this one and next one) isnt exactly long term heh..

[Ctownbulls]

He's a stabilizing, experienced presence on a young team. These players matter for development. On top of that, hes expiring and I fail to see why we'd need his roster space. Zach Collins and Jalen Smith are not better players than him - it's not like he's blocking anyone noteworthy. They're just transition pieces.

We don't need development. We have 1, maybe 2 players, that even matter and will be here whenever they become competitive. They need to tank and let Buzelis take 18 shots a game.

Sent from my Pixel 9 using Tapatalk

[Indomitable]

Yes, and we’ve noted the examples on the board repeatedly in the last few days. Boozer, Wade, Torrey Craig, Duarte…

The Bulls didn't buy out Craig or Duarte. They simply waived them.

It’s the same thing - it’s just a function of whether the team gets a money back. Waiving players actually shows ownership being more spendy (sort of, since the Bulls spend basically the same amount of money all the time - anything up to the tax, but not the tax).

Not the same. Buying out implies making a deal to minimize the effect on the salary cap. Like the stretch provision.

Waving insignificant players in there last year is not the same.

[Infinity2152]

Don't understand the need to rush. Have you all actually looked at Collins, his likely replacement?

Zach Collins last year with Bulls: BPM 0.1, VORP .3, DPBM 0.2, OPBM -0.1, Block % 2.2, Steal % 1.3, DRB% 23%, ORB 12.4%, 3pt% 30%, PER 17.2
Defensive rating per 100 possessions: 114

Vucevic last year with Bulls: BPM 2.6, VORP 2.7, DPBM 0.1, OPBM 2.5, Block% 2.0, Steal% 1.2, DRB% 25%, ORB% 8.3%, 3pt 40%, PER 20
Defensive rating over 100 possessions: 113

His defensive metrics were almost identical to Vucevic's. We should buy Vucevic out to start an expiring equally bad defense player who can't shoot? Collins just has that new player sheen, he's not better than Vucevic. Neither is Smith. There's a reason no one thinks Donovan will start Collins over Vucevic. Coach's job is to win games.

My opinion, you're not looking at the right defensive statistics. Block, steal, and rebound percentage are important, but the rest is useless for evaluating defense.

Look at Vuc's contest stats. Despite being big, he doesn't force misses. Only a -0.9% difference when Vuc contests shots at the rim vs Collins at -7.1%.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Collins is admittedly faster and lighter than Vucevic. Our centers generally play in space, so they have to get back to the basket. Vucevic is stronger and heavier. He's going to be much harder to move or post up than Collins. Wasn't just posting defensive statistics because players don't only play on defense, they play both ways. BPM, DPBM, VORP, defensive rating over 100 possessions all include defense in some way too. Matters if you're focused on the net gain rather than just one side of the ball.

Collins is slightly better than Vucevic defensively at contesting the rim, doesn't seem better in any other area. Not to the point where it's worth buying out a $20 mill expiring player out for no gain. Just let him expire if we can't find a trade. At least wait until the deadline, TRY to get a second or two. We've made it this long, lol.

Seems even the people who want Vucevic gone feel we may win more games with Vucevic. There's no prospect in that position, and teams are supposed to try to win games. Don't think any player we add at this point other than a star will get enough minutes to matter this year anyway. Would be different if he was a bad influence on the players. I think he will be a steadying presence while he's here.

[jnrjr79]

It’s the same thing - it’s just a function of whether the team gets a money back.

Correct, so it's not the same thing. Players have to agree to a buyout, they don't agree to being waived.

Sure, but this misses the point. The discussion here was about whether the Bulls have historically been too cheap to buy out players. They haven't (at least on occasion), and to the extent they just outright waive players, they're spending even more.

[jnrjr79]

The Bulls didn't buy out Craig or Duarte. They simply waived them.

It’s the same thing - it’s just a function of whether the team gets a money back. Waiving players actually shows ownership being more spendy (sort of, since the Bulls spend basically the same amount of money all the time - anything up to the tax, but not the tax).

Not the same. Buying out implies making a deal to minimize the effect on the salary cap. Like the stretch provision.

Waving insignificant players in there last year is not the same.

Buying out does not affect the salary cap. The full cap number stays in on the books - the player just agrees to take less.

[jump]

The Stewart trade could work under certain conditions. If the Bulls see a FA center they like and think they can pay for next summer, then Stewart makes no sense. Better to keep Vuc for a possible deadline trade or just to let him go at the end of the season and use the money for someone they want. But if there's no suitable C replacement on the horizon, then go ahead and get Stewart. He'll only be around for one more season after that. Or maybe he'll be just what the team needs.

[nomorezorro]

the pistons are not trading isaiah stewart for vucevic