Free Agency & Trades Thread 2 **NOW OPEN**

[Pointgod]

So bizarre that people tend to either underrate our players and overate other teams. Or the opposite way around.

Whitmore is okay. Good get for the wizards but obviously given away for 2nd round picks for a reason.

What’s bizarre is saying a 21 year old that’s only completed 2 years in the league stinks and is a bad player. We’ve seen lots of examples of a playing going to a different team/environment and flourishing. Whitmore’s value has nothing to do with his play, there weren’t enough minutes to showcase what he can do. If you look at his per 36 (flawed stat) he is a 21,7 rebs,2 asts, 2 stocks on 55% TS. But a team isn’t going to give up a first based on per 36 and by all accounts the Rockets worked with his reps to get him to a team where he could get more minutes.

Reed Sheppard on the same team is getting 12 minutes a night despite being a top 3 pick that was NBA ready and killed it in the summer league. If the Rockets were to trade him for anything less than a lottery pick does that mean he’s a bad player as well or is it that he doesn’t fit with the system the Rockets have?

Wizards did well with this trade and the Rockets did right by Whitmore.

[Pointgod]

Maybe, just maybe, Cam Whitmore the guy who told other teams not to draft him had his agency force a trade to his hometown team. He is from Maryland.

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On the flipside the Rockets are a championship contender and probably chose to have defense first team guy like Jae'Sean Tate over a potential malcontent.

The return was bad, but teams like Houston and OKC are going to lose assets like this because players are not going to wait forever. This is why Toronto should manage its cap and roster better to be able to pounce on good opportunities.

I don't even remember what Charlotte gave up to get Tre Johnson but that was a steal as well. OKC and Topic will be a decision for them in time as well.

You mean Tre Mann. He was part of a salary dump to the Hornets. Another reason why it’s dumb to assume the value of a young player solely based on the trade return.

Charlotte Hornets President of Basketball Operations & General Manager Mitch Kupchak announced today the team has acquired forward Davis Bertans, guard Tre Mann, guard Vasilije Micic, a 2024 second-round pick and a 2025 second-round pick from the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for forward Gordon Hayward.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[HumbleRen]

but you just said you will take Cam Whitemore which is according to you, "low risk, high reward". RJ has a contract that was given because of his skills, yet Cam Whitemore was traded for two 2nd round picks.

Never understood the RJ hate, he is 3rd pick which tWo loves.

Never understood the RJ love. Volume numbers, low impact, something team compete hates.

I’m not sure how else to make it more simple for you to understand lol.

Acquiring a 21 year old who makes 4M a year who has produced at a high level whenever he got real minutes for 2 2nd round picks is indeed a low risk, high reward move. It doesn’t change your cap flexibility or force you to start him because he makes a lot of money.

Having a 25 year old that is owed 60M over the next 2 years who isn’t a positive impact player. A player that handicaps your flexibility when it comes to trades is not a low risk, high reward player. That’s called a low reward, bad contract situation.

If they both made 4M yes, you easily prefer RJ over Whitmore but they don’t make the same amount of money. That’s why one is called a low risk high reward player and the other is someone most teams don’t want on their roster at that price.

[HumbleRen]

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Hope this happens for the Suns fans sake.

[Duffman100]

So bizarre that people tend to either underrate our players and overate other teams. Or the opposite way around.

Whitmore is okay. Good get for the wizards but obviously given away for 2nd round picks for a reason.

What’s bizarre is saying a 21 year old that’s only completed 2 years in the league stinks and is a bad player. We’ve seen lots of examples of a playing going to a different team/environment and flourishing. Whitmore’s value has nothing to do with his play, there weren’t enough minutes to showcase what he can do. If you look at his per 36 (flawed stat) he is a 21,7 rebs,2 asts, 2 stocks on 55% TS. But a team isn’t going to give up a first based on per 36 and by all accounts the Rockets worked with his reps to get him to a team where he could get more minutes.

Reed Sheppard on the same team is getting 12 minutes a night despite being a top 3 pick that was NBA ready and killed it in the summer league. If the Rockets were to trade him for anything less than a lottery pick does that mean he’s a bad player as well or is it that he doesn’t fit with the system the Rockets have?

Wizards did well with this trade and the Rockets did right by Whitmore.

Sure. I mean I said he's okay, not bad or stinks.

But there's a reason why a lot of teams passed on him and a reason why the return was 2nd round picks. And it's isn't the generousity of the Rockets. He has giant flaws in his game that may be resolved on time. Or he'll be a scorer who offers not much else

[Tor_Raps]

So bizarre that people tend to either underrate our players and overate other teams. Or the opposite way around.

Whitmore is okay. Good get for the wizards but obviously given away for 2nd round picks for a reason.

Based on that logic, Ingram was given away for scrubs and one 1st round pick for a reason...

Hope you realize trades dont work that way and youre able to steal value at times. Reports already came out that the Rockets accepted less to give Whitmore a better chance to explode...

Of course Ingram was. He's injury prone and was due for a big contract.

Of course you can steal value. But the market also decides the value. If Whitmore was this untapped stud, Rockets would have got more. This whole "we're doing right by the player" is likely overblown.

It was probably a mix of try and find the best spot plus this was the relative value

You can think Whitmore is a good prospect without believing he should net you a great haul at this stage. Hes still an unknown mostly because hes been playing on a super stacked team.

All I see is a bunch of people using their Gradey Dick insecurities in these comments lol.

[Duffman100]

Based on that logic, Ingram was given away for scrubs and one 1st round pick for a reason...

Hope you realize trades dont work that way and youre able to steal value at times. Reports already came out that the Rockets accepted less to give Whitmore a better chance to explode...

Of course Ingram was. He's injury prone and was due for a big contract.

Of course you can steal value. But the market also decides the value. If Whitmore was this untapped stud, Rockets would have got more. This whole "we're doing right by the player" is likely overblown.

It was probably a mix of try and find the best spot plus this was the relative value

You can think Whitmore is a good prospect without believing he should net you a great haul at this stage. Hes still an unknown mostly because hes been playing on a super stacked team.

All I see is a bunch of people using their Gradey Dick insecurities in these comments lol.

I don't see anything that really says he's a good prospect. Or as good as some people are believing. If he was a good prospect the return would have been better or they'd be playing him / keeping him.

He's just fine.

Hell I wanted to draft him when he fell to us.

[Los_29]

but you just said you will take Cam Whitemore which is according to you, "low risk, high reward". RJ has a contract that was given because of his skills, yet Cam Whitemore was traded for two 2nd round picks.

Never understood the RJ love. Volume numbers, low impact, something team compete hates.

I’m not sure how else to make it more simple for you to understand lol.

Acquiring a 21 year old who makes 4M a year who has produced at a high level whenever he got real minutes for 2 2nd round picks is indeed a low risk, high reward move. It doesn’t change your cap flexibility or force you to start him because he makes a lot of money.

Having a 25 year old that is owed 60M over the next 2 years who isn’t a positive impact player. A player that handicaps your flexibility when it comes to trades is not a low risk, high reward player. That’s called a low reward, bad contract situation.

If they both made 4M yes, you easily prefer RJ over Whitmore but they don’t make the same amount of money. That’s why one is called a low risk high reward player and the other is someone most teams don’t want on their roster at that price.

Cam Whitmore has produced at a high level? Once again, if he’s produced at a high level and is making 4m a year he’s not getting traded. Full stop. Houston would also not go out and sign DFS as they’d want to make room for Whitmore.

He has not produced at a high level. He’s an inefficient, high usage player with zero passing ability.

[MoneyBall]

Maybe, just maybe, Cam Whitmore the guy who told other teams not to draft him had his agency force a trade to his hometown team. He is from Maryland.

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On the flipside the Rockets are a championship contender and probably chose to have defense first team guy like Jae'Sean Tate over a potential malcontent.

The return was bad, but teams like Houston and OKC are going to lose assets like this because players are not going to wait forever. This is why Toronto should manage its cap and roster better to be able to pounce on good opportunities.

I don't even remember what Charlotte gave up to get Tre Johnson but that was a steal as well. OKC and Topic will be a decision for them in time as well.

Yeah, nobody is really talking about that side of things. If he's a headache off the court, that could definitely hurt his value. He's definitely shown enough on the court as a 20 year old to warrant more than two 2nds. I'm not interested in a drama queen, though.

[Tor_Raps]

Of course Ingram was. He's injury prone and was due for a big contract.

Of course you can steal value. But the market also decides the value. If Whitmore was this untapped stud, Rockets would have got more. This whole "we're doing right by the player" is likely overblown.

It was probably a mix of try and find the best spot plus this was the relative value

You can think Whitmore is a good prospect without believing he should net you a great haul at this stage. Hes still an unknown mostly because hes been playing on a super stacked team.

All I see is a bunch of people using their Gradey Dick insecurities in these comments lol.

I don't see anything that really says he's a good prospect. Or as good as some people are believing. If he was a good prospect the return would have been better or they'd be playing him / keeping him.

He's just fine.

Hell I wanted to draft him when he fell to us.

Maybe you missed his numbers when hes gotten a chance to play extended minutes, its pretty damn good. Hes just playing on a stacked team that wants to win right now vs develop a player.

Look at their depth chart and its easy to see he wouldn't touch the court for that reason. I'm intrigued to see how he does in Washington, think it was a great buy low move from the Wizards.

[Los_29]

You can think Whitmore is a good prospect without believing he should net you a great haul at this stage. Hes still an unknown mostly because hes been playing on a super stacked team.

All I see is a bunch of people using their Gradey Dick insecurities in these comments lol.

I don't see anything that really says he's a good prospect. Or as good as some people are believing. If he was a good prospect the return would have been better or they'd be playing him / keeping him.

He's just fine.

Hell I wanted to draft him when he fell to us.

Maybe you missed his numbers when hes gotten a chance to play extended minutes, its pretty damn good.

Hes just playing on a stacked team that wants to win right now vs develop a player. Look at their depth chart and its easy to see he wouldn't touch the court for that reason. I'm intrigued to see how he does in Washington, think it was a great buy low move from the Wizards.

Are they even that good? His best months of his career he averaged 12-14ppg, 3-4rpg with horrendous assist numbers and mediocre efficiency. If someone isn’t going to play team ball then I want that efficiency to be way higher. lol.

Does anyone still get excited about Cam Thomas? He was another guy that got an absurd amount of hype, largely because he played on another team. Now no one talks about him because they realize it’s all empty calories.

[Tor_Raps]

I don't see anything that really says he's a good prospect. Or as good as some people are believing. If he was a good prospect the return would have been better or they'd be playing him / keeping him.

He's just fine.

Hell I wanted to draft him when he fell to us.

Maybe you missed his numbers when hes gotten a chance to play extended minutes, its pretty damn good.

Hes just playing on a stacked team that wants to win right now vs develop a player. Look at their depth chart and its easy to see he wouldn't touch the court for that reason. I'm intrigued to see how he does in Washington, think it was a great buy low move from the Wizards.

Are they even that good? His best months of his career he averaged 12-14ppg, 3-4rpg with horrendous assist numbers and mediocre efficiency. If someone isn’t going to play team ball then I want that efficiency to be way higher. lol.

Does anyone still get excited about Cam Thomas? He was another guy that got an absurd amount of hype, largely because he played on another team. Now no one talks about him because they realize it’s all empty calories.

How many 2nd year players are polished? Do we need to outline every flaw from Dick/Walter?

Come on man... he has shown some great flashes but still has to improve to play winning basketball. He just wouldn't get that chance on the Rockets because theyre STACKED.

[djsunyc]

not too many responses about how rockets blew a #20 pick. i guess as long as you win in the regular season, it's ok.

[Los_29]

not too many responses about how rockets blew a #20 pick. i guess as long as you win in the regular season, it's ok.

It’s okay though. Houston were being kind and generous. Doing Whitmore a solid.

[HumbleRen]

but you just said you will take Cam Whitemore which is according to you, "low risk, high reward". RJ has a contract that was given because of his skills, yet Cam Whitemore was traded for two 2nd round picks.

I’m not sure how else to make it more simple for you to understand lol.

Acquiring a 21 year old who makes 4M a year who has produced at a high level whenever he got real minutes for 2 2nd round picks is indeed a low risk, high reward move. It doesn’t change your cap flexibility or force you to start him because he makes a lot of money.

Having a 25 year old that is owed 60M over the next 2 years who isn’t a positive impact player. A player that handicaps your flexibility when it comes to trades is not a low risk, high reward player. That’s called a low reward, bad contract situation.

If they both made 4M yes, you easily prefer RJ over Whitmore but they don’t make the same amount of money. That’s why one is called a low risk high reward player and the other is someone most teams don’t want on their roster at that price.

Cam Whitmore has produced at a high level? Once again, if he’s produced at a high level and is making 4m a year he’s not getting traded. Full stop. Houston would also not go out and sign DFS as they’d want to make room for Whitmore.

He has not produced at a high level. He’s an inefficient, high usage player with zero passing ability.

Yes, he’s produced at a high level whenever he was given real minutes.

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I’m not sure why you keep harping on efficiency by the way. He was more efficient than Scottie, Gradey, Jakobe, Mogbo and RJ Barrett lol.

[Los_29]

Maybe you missed his numbers when hes gotten a chance to play extended minutes, its pretty damn good.

Hes just playing on a stacked team that wants to win right now vs develop a player. Look at their depth chart and its easy to see he wouldn't touch the court for that reason. I'm intrigued to see how he does in Washington, think it was a great buy low move from the Wizards.

Are they even that good? His best months of his career he averaged 12-14ppg, 3-4rpg with horrendous assist numbers and mediocre efficiency. If someone isn’t going to play team ball then I want that efficiency to be way higher. lol.

Does anyone still get excited about Cam Thomas? He was another guy that got an absurd amount of hype, largely because he played on another team. Now no one talks about him because they realize it’s all empty calories.

How many 2nd year players are polished? Do we need to outline every flaw from Dick/Walter?

Come on man... he has shown some great flashes but still has to improve to play winning basketball. He just wouldn't get that chance on the Rockets because theyre STACKED.

Houston was so stacked that a 40 year old Jeff Green still managed to play 13mpg. In addition to that, Aaron Holiday averaged 13mpg, Tate averaged 11mpg. But they just couldn’t give Whitmore any more minutes? All I’m reading are excuses on here. Lol.

Of course Dick/Walter have flaws. But it’s not about that. It’s about how Whitmore plays. None of these guys are likely going to make an all-star team so now it’s about how they can contribute to a winning team. What can they bring? I honestly don’t know what Whitmore brings other than his inefficient iso scoring.

[Los_29]

I’m not sure how else to make it more simple for you to understand lol.

Acquiring a 21 year old who makes 4M a year who has produced at a high level whenever he got real minutes for 2 2nd round picks is indeed a low risk, high reward move. It doesn’t change your cap flexibility or force you to start him because he makes a lot of money.

Having a 25 year old that is owed 60M over the next 2 years who isn’t a positive impact player. A player that handicaps your flexibility when it comes to trades is not a low risk, high reward player. That’s called a low reward, bad contract situation.

If they both made 4M yes, you easily prefer RJ over Whitmore but they don’t make the same amount of money. That’s why one is called a low risk high reward player and the other is someone most teams don’t want on their roster at that price.

Cam Whitmore has produced at a high level? Once again, if he’s produced at a high level and is making 4m a year he’s not getting traded. Full stop. Houston would also not go out and sign DFS as they’d want to make room for Whitmore.

He has not produced at a high level. He’s an inefficient, high usage player with zero passing ability.

Yes, he’s produced at a high level whenever he was given real minutes.

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I’m not sure why you keep harping on efficiency by the way. He was more efficient than Scottie, Gradey, Jakobe, Mogbo and RJ Barrett lol.

Dude, he’s started 5 games. Haven’t you learned by now? Shaedon Sharpe, Eubanks, Jalen Harris and the list goes on.

[HumbleRen]

Cam Whitmore has produced at a high level? Once again, if he’s produced at a high level and is making 4m a year he’s not getting traded. Full stop. Houston would also not go out and sign DFS as they’d want to make room for Whitmore.

He has not produced at a high level. He’s an inefficient, high usage player with zero passing ability.

Yes, he’s produced at a high level whenever he was given real minutes.

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I’m not sure why you keep harping on efficiency by the way. He was more efficient than Scottie, Gradey, Jakobe, Mogbo and RJ Barrett lol.

Dude, he’s started 5 games.

So? You can only produce in what you’re given. Whenever he’s been given a real chance, he’s put up efficient numbers.

Again, you’re ducking my question, why do you keep harping on about efficiency when he was more efficient than RJ, Gradey, Jakobe and Scottie. He’s a year younger than Gradey as well lol.

He’ll be fine man, probably won’t be a starter for a good team but he can carve out a real rotation role from the bench.

[Pointgod]

I’m not sure how else to make it more simple for you to understand lol.

Acquiring a 21 year old who makes 4M a year who has produced at a high level whenever he got real minutes for 2 2nd round picks is indeed a low risk, high reward move. It doesn’t change your cap flexibility or force you to start him because he makes a lot of money.

Having a 25 year old that is owed 60M over the next 2 years who isn’t a positive impact player. A player that handicaps your flexibility when it comes to trades is not a low risk, high reward player. That’s called a low reward, bad contract situation.

If they both made 4M yes, you easily prefer RJ over Whitmore but they don’t make the same amount of money. That’s why one is called a low risk high reward player and the other is someone most teams don’t want on their roster at that price.

Cam Whitmore has produced at a high level? Once again, if he’s produced at a high level and is making 4m a year he’s not getting traded. Full stop. Houston would also not go out and sign DFS as they’d want to make room for Whitmore.

He has not produced at a high level. He’s an inefficient, high usage player with zero passing ability.

Yes, he’s produced at a high level whenever he was given real minutes.

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I’m not sure why you keep harping on efficiency by the way. He was more efficient than Scottie, Gradey, Jakobe, Mogbo and RJ Barrett lol.

That’s a 5 game sample size as a starter. I think Whitmore could get better but I wouldn’t use this as the reason why.