The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

[DirtyDez]

Paying a non-superstar $75m a year starting in 2027-28’ for past production is just dumb but not surprising.

Which attainable player would you rather pay 75M/year?

Would you rather that we field an entire rookie team like the Nets?

I’d rather be the Suns with the ability to trade Book but now that’s nearly impossible. The Nets at least have assets but are also a poorly run franchise. I’d say neither has a bright outlook.

[BobbieL]

Paying a non-superstar $75m a year starting in 2027-28’ for past production is just dumb but not surprising.

It ain’t just the front office that is striving for mediocracy, it’s the player too. I always ask, how much is enough to make someone happy?

I don't blame Booker for taking the money

I blame the Front Office . That said. its probably smart to extend him because Booker will ask for a trade next year or 2027 at the latest so he is signed for the new team.

[Sunsdeuce]

Paying a non-superstar $75m a year starting in 2027-28’ for past production is just dumb but not surprising.

It ain’t just the front office that is striving for mediocracy, it’s the player too. I always ask, how much is enough to make someone happy?

I don't blame Booker for taking the money

I blame the Front Office . That said. its probably smart to extend him because Booker will ask for a trade next year or 2027 at the latest so he is signed for the new team.

Wouldn’t it be smart to wait to extend him if he’s prob going to ask for a trade because now he’s prob untradable with that contract (because it’s over a 1/3 of a payroll. Not sure I see a team desperate to pick up $75 million a year to restrict their roster for a non-All-Star). I’ve never seen a team give a record breaking contract to a non- All-star. If you have, please let me know. And I kinda do blame Booker because franchise players made room in their contract so as not to constrict the roster. Tom Brady being the most famous to do it.

[TeamTragic]

Booker does not have a NTC.

He can be moved if necessary.

[BobbieL]

It ain’t just the front office that is striving for mediocracy, it’s the player too. I always ask, how much is enough to make someone happy?

I don't blame Booker for taking the money

I blame the Front Office . That said. its probably smart to extend him because Booker will ask for a trade next year or 2027 at the latest so he is signed for the new team.

Wouldn’t it be smart to wait to extend him if he’s prob going to ask for a trade because now he’s prob untradable with that contract (because it’s over a 1/3 of a payroll. Not sure I see a team desperate to pick up $75 million a year to restrict their roster for a non-All-Star). I’ve never seen a team give a record breaking contract to a non- All-star. If you have, please let me know. And I kinda do blame Booker because franchise players made room in their contract so as not to constrict the roster. Tom Brady being the most famous to do it.

Well first of all, will never blame a player for taking money

Personally, I think t hey should have traded Booker this offseason . This whole narrative that he wants to be here and has a say on where he can play - nonsense. If you can improve your team - trade him. And that doesn't mean you have to trade him - but if the phone rings, listen.

[bwgood77]

I think the Mavs could easily be 3rd. Kyrie is projected to be back in January. DLo isn't great but a frontcourt rotation of AD/Lively/Gafford with and a 3/4 rotation of AD/PJ Washington/Flagg.

Then Klay has regressed but he can still get hot shooting. With Kyrie I think they could compete with anyone. With DLo it's their one weak spot, but other guys can handle, including Flagg and AD, as well as Max Christie and Naji Marshall.

They also have Caleb Martin. They have another rookie PG on a 2 way, Nembhard...the brother of the one in Indy, though he's small.

I mean, do you really think our roster is even close to their's?

What is our projected starting lineup? Most teams won't play rookies much. I hope we play ours quite a bit.

But Jalen Green, Book, Mark Williams...is Dunn starting at 4. Is Book starting at 3? Or are we going with one of Royce or Allen again? Our bench will likely be mostly rookies. I guess Nigel Hayes may start?

I liked our draft and I like adding Mark Williams, but I don't think they nearly make up the difference of losing KD.

We actually have a lot more talent if we do keep Beal. Other teams would LOVE to have him as a 6th man. Some would probably start him. His contrat is awful but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent or play hard on both ends...and without KD he could maybe step up.

I think we'd have a better chance of being better than the LA teams than Dallas, but a team with LeBron and Luka and another with Harden and Kawhi are tough if healthy. Though they likely both will deal with injuries.

But that still leaves the Thunder, Rockets, Wolves, Nuggets, Warriors, Spurs, Grizzlies and Mavs. I suppose you maybe think aside from Dallas, we may be better than the Spurs and Grizzlies too?

Funny thing is I was/am going to put up a poll and thought we will have 1 or 2 votes for 60+ wins...Qwigglez and maybe Raising AZ, but now that I mention, probably more.

I got the Suns winning around 44 games.
I don't think the Mavs are very good without a quality PG. Lively and Gafford can't do much besides grab rebounds, they have absolutely no post game. AD missed 31 games, Lively & Gafford both missed time, and overall they don't have the most durable players in the league. I'd be shocked if the Mavs were 3rd in the West.

I think losing KD is addition by subtraction. He just wasn't a great leader on the court.

I think the Suns could be right there with the Wolves, Spurs, Grizzlies, Warriors, LA teams, and Mavs. I got Thunder, Nuggets, and Rockets as the top 3 teams in the West. 4th to 10th will probably be a blood bath.

I appreciate your optimism, as well as Saber, RA, Puddles, sunsbum and others and hope you guys are right. It would be great if we can get to 40+ wins, or even a record similar to this year. I obviously have a hard time seeing it as tough as the west is, but we should definitely get better as the season goes, which you can't say for this past year, and with low expectations despite excitement, I'll be really happy to see us get there and it will mean our picks are solid and are able to contribute quickly, and likely that Mark Williams was able to stay relatively healthy. I do think Brooks will be an interesting player. I remember him from his Oregon days and that he always had a lot of grit. I also remember him leading a bunch of 3rd stringers to beat us badly 2 or 3 years ago...he was basically running point. However, I do think he will have his critics. He is a really streaky shooter, and could face similar criticism that Crowder did (prior to him sitting out for whatever reason). Brooks will go like 2-8 from 3 in two games and then 6-8 in the next, and overall, and 10-24 over 3 games, that is over 40%, but some people will remember the bad games and associate him with those I imagine. I am sure Green will be exciting yet at time frustrating. Anyway, I'm excited even though I voted for 26-30 wins.

[lilfishi22]

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

It's not about signings. It's purely a money savings play.

So if it's purely a money saving play, don't we have until the trade deadline to sort this out? Seems like buying out and stretching Beal should be a last resort to save money.

Not having control over our own pick for the next 5 years isn't enough, so we should have less capspace than any other team in the league as well for that same period of time?

The only thing this team has "going for it" at the moment is that we're clearing a ton of contracts in two years, and we could potentially revamp our roster with hopefully some savy free agency signings and hopefully some of our current youngsters working out.

We're only 11mil above the second apron, no? If the Suns hadn't picked up Richards it would have been 6 mil? It seems like gross mismanagement of assets to have to buy out Beal. There isn't a trade available where we move Allen's 17 mil for a lower contract and buyout and stretch that player if needed? Like Allen for someone making 10 mil a year, buy out and stretch to 5 mil a year and we're under the second apron? Then just let Beal expire in two years.

You are right, there is still time, it just becomes more difficult to find a suitor for Beal and others the further from the start of the offseason you go. We already missed the boat on the start of the free agency which is when teams start spending the potential cap space that could be used to absorb extra salary. For example, the Hawks had something like $20-21m going out in the KP trade and took back KP's $30m salary. That wouldn't be possible if the Hawks had already gone out to sign players and what not.

The group of teams that are far enough under the 1st apron to absorb an extra 25% of incoming salary become smaller and when you have assets that aren't super attractive, it becomes even harder to find a suitor. The other consideration I'm sure is weighing heavily on Ish is the repeater tax which we're probably not going to drop under if we don't stretch Beal. We're about $21m over the tax line right now and finding teams to absorb a significant chunk of Grayson and Royce's salary alone would be difficult. Stretching Beal would drop our salary by about $34m. Straight salary dumping Royce, Grayson and Richards would only get us around a $32m reduction.

And I agree, I find stretching Beal extremely unpalatable and I'd much rather we keep him and maybe we'll find a suitor for him next offseason when he becomes an expiring contract. But with the stretch provision being talked about and thrown about so much, I can't help but think it's definitely a nuclear option and I think it's one Ishbia is seriously considering because it essentially resolves the two of the most pressing issues (2nd apron penalties and repeat tax concerns) and the closer you get to the trade deadline, the fewer other options there are on the table.

[lilfishi22]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

I for one am glad they didn't stretch/waive Beal only to turn around and sign a mediocre player just to "sign somebody" and have Flex or Gambo saying thsi front office knows what it is doing

You said it yourself, the FA class is weak. So if Ishbia is doing this to save money - which I think he is - fine. Just don't double down and be stupid like Sarver did to not sign Amare (with his knee injuries, the right move ) to turn around and sign Warrick and Childress to multi year deals.

Ishbia doesn't need to sign a player to sign a player. Now, one thing about S/W - they should be able to aggregate contracts so that could be a plus
I still hope Beal holds out as the short gain only benefits Ishbia's wallet - not the team

Mark Williams is kinda that guy although I wouldn't say he's mediocre. He just could be if he's on the bench all the time. We got him "for cheap" but he's very soon going to be a lot more expensive

[Sunsdeuce]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

I for one am glad they didn't stretch/waive Beal only to turn around and sign a mediocre player just to "sign somebody" and have Flex or Gambo saying thsi front office knows what it is doing

You said it yourself, the FA class is weak. So if Ishbia is doing this to save money - which I think he is - fine. Just don't double down and be stupid like Sarver did to not sign Amare (with his knee injuries, the right move ) to turn around and sign Warrick and Childress to multi year deals.

Ishbia doesn't need to sign a player to sign a player. Now, one thing about S/W - they should be able to aggregate contracts so that could be a plus
I still hope Beal holds out as the short gain only benefits Ishbia's wallet - not the team

Mark Williams is kinda that guy although I wouldn't say he's mediocre. He just could be if he's on the bench all the time. We got him "for cheap" but he's very soon going to be a lot more expensive

Depends if he plays more than half the year. If he only plays half a year again, his value won’t be as high as it should.

[Sunsdeuce]

We are going to stretch him aren’t we. smart thing to do is do the two year buy out. Once he’s stretched, we will have almost no room to sign anyone once Bookers extension kicks in. Just devastating decision making.

Marc Stein: Bradley Beal is actively exploring his options with other teams in anticipation of a Suns buyout, league sources tell @TheSteinLine . There will be considerable interest in Beal once he becomes an unrestricted free agent. More NBA from me earlier today: https://tinyurl.com/432u4da7 – via x.com

[lilfishi22]

Going to be pretty frustrated if we stretch him. So short sighted

It saves Ishbia upwards of $200m over two years I have read
That is why he is being stretched

Don't be fooled by the "we can now use the TPMLE" or "we can now trade multiple players" - which are both true - but this saves him a boatload of cash


Waiting for a player to be signed so Flex can say "they always had a plan. relax. this front office is playing 3d chess"

[TeamTragic]

Rumor is that Beal is giving up about 14M which will put the Suns under the 15% cap.

[Sunsdeuce]

Going to be pretty frustrated if we stretch him. So short sighted

It saves Ishbia upwards of $200m over two years I have read
That is why he is being stretched

Don't be fooled by the "we can now use the TPMLE" or "we can now trade multiple players" - which are both true - but this saves him a boatload of cash


Waiting for a player to be signed so Flex can say "they always had a plan. relax. this front office is playing 3d chess"

Side note: Flex real name is Felix Cruz. So now I will know who you are talking about when you say Felix.

[TeamTragic]

Bourguet just said we are dipping below both tax aprons after the buyout.

This would be insane if true and not a horrible outcome.

[lilfishi22]

Bourguet just said we are dipping below both tax aprons after the buyout.

This would be insane if true and not a horrible outcome.

That means we're stretching him

Which is the worst outcome imo

[lilfishi22]

We have convinced ourselves this is a good “reload” “around Booker”. Good lawd, our standards are so low now.

Ask me after we see what happens with the Beal situation but with ishbia - I don’t have faith. I like Maulauch and Flemings. Williams might be nice but if it means stretching Beal - it’s stupid. There was 23m of easy cap space to closer to apron levels .

I know people around here are convinced this was very well planned and well thought out but I just don’t see it after digging deeper.

Suns knew there was a possibility Malauch could fall to them hence why they are talking to Rich Paul. But then traded away for Williams who failed a physical the year prior and hasn’t played over 45 games in a year. They used their 29th pick (and a future 1st)to trade for him when they could have just kept the 29th pick and selected Fleming. Instead of waiting to see how the draft played out first, they over played their hand to (over)trade for Williams. Then wasted their second night wasting more draft picks to move back up to get Fleming. This is, not a formula to success any other GM in the league would do.

Then regarding the KD trade, they ended up with a Booker clone in Green. (which by the way was the biggest flaw of this team the last two years was this team had too many clones of Booker). Green was a no more than a salary dump for Houston. Green stats are super stagnant after 4 years in the league which is very concerning.

Now you are going to pair Booker and Green into the starting unit who have almost no court vision and Booker has proven he is NOT capable of elevating the players around him but decide to surround him with players that need someone to elevate them. Booker as full time PG is a known disaster AND the FO already talked about getting Booker out of the PG roll and put him back in the SG roll full time to allow him to flourish but they renig and put Booker back at PG.

There is no rhyme or rhythm to what this front office is doing. Now they are in cost cutting mode and foolishly trying to stretch Beal after foolishly trading for him (Ishbia hold yourself accountable since this is your mess and stop firing people for your failures, please).

I’m sorry I’m not buying what people are trying to sell (this is was a good off season).

Exactly the arguments I've made. Like I'm totally happy/fine with the draft picks, I'm even fine with Williams the player for 2 late FRPs (in a vacuum) but put everything together and those 2 nights of moves are just poor value. It's one thing to walk away with the players you want, it's another to have spent like 4 SRPs and 2 FRPs to get 2 second round prospects and an injury prone 5.

[starbosa10]

Bourguet just said we are dipping below both tax aprons after the buyout.

This would be insane if true and not a horrible outcome.

That means we're stretching him

Which is the worst outcome imo

Agreed, sacrificing 5 years of cap for short term relief in a rebuilding season anyway

[BobbieL]

Bourguet just said we are dipping below both tax aprons after the buyout.

This would be insane if true and not a horrible outcome.

That means we're stretching him

Which is the worst outcome imo

Agreed, sacrificing 5 years of cap for short term relief in a rebuilding season anyway

It’s all because ishbia wants to save money

[bwgood77]

We have convinced ourselves this is a good “reload” “around Booker”. Good lawd, our standards are so low now.

Ask me after we see what happens with the Beal situation but with ishbia - I don’t have faith. I like Maulauch and Flemings. Williams might be nice but if it means stretching Beal - it’s stupid. There was 23m of easy cap space to closer to apron levels .

I know people around here are convinced this was very well planned and well thought out but I just don’t see it after digging deeper.

Suns knew there was a possibility Malauch could fall to them hence why they are talking to Rich Paul. But then traded away for Williams who failed a physical the year prior and hasn’t played over 45 games in a year. They used their 29th pick (and a future 1st)to trade for him when they could have just kept the 29th pick and selected Fleming. Instead of waiting to see how the draft played out first, they over played their hand to (over)trade for Williams. Then wasted their second night wasting more draft picks to move back up to get Fleming. This is, not a formula to success any other GM in the league would do.

Then regarding the KD trade, they ended up with a Booker clone in Green. (which by the way was the biggest flaw of this team the last two years was this team had too many clones of Booker). Green was a no more than a salary dump for Houston. Green stats are super stagnant after 4 years in the league which is very concerning.

Now you are going to pair Booker and Green into the starting unit who have almost no court vision and Booker has proven he is NOT capable of elevating the players around him but decide to surround him with players that need someone to elevate them. Booker as full time PG is a known disaster AND the FO already talked about getting Booker out of the PG roll and put him back in the SG roll full time to allow him to flourish but they renig and put Booker back at PG.

There is no rhyme or rhythm to what this front office is doing. Now they are in cost cutting mode and foolishly trying to stretch Beal after foolishly trading for him (Ishbia hold yourself accountable since this is your mess and stop firing people for your failures, please).

I’m sorry I’m not buying what people are trying to sell (this is was a good off season).

I don't mind trading for Williams, who is good (though he has missed a lot of games) and drafting BPA, which is what we should be doing. That 29 first will be late 20s, so almost a 2nd round pick. Maluach is 18 and Williams is 23. Nice duo..one with some experience, but still on rookie contract, and the injuries (if he can stay healthy going forward) might end up helping us negotiate a reasonable extension. You need 2 good centers anyway. They usually play 28 minutes or so, and Maluach would probably play less than that regardless anyway given college games are shorter and he isn't used to the minutes and pace, and is a big. I agree about Beal and not stretching him and I am cautiously optimistic about Green.

[TeamTragic]

That means we're stretching him

Which is the worst outcome imo

Agreed, sacrificing 5 years of cap for short term relief in a rebuilding season anyway

It’s all because ishbia wants to save money

230M savings and team has more flexibility since they are not in either tax apron.