Summer League Thread

[Basketball_Jones]

I did not know VJ was THIS good wow. Reminds me of Jrue Holiday but can be even better with the freakish athleticism.

The college style of basketball was not good for his game. Baylor also played him out of position to try to justify an expensive transfer in Jeremy Roach and played their usual slow brand of defensive basketball. Also the college game is just too congested for him to thrive. He will look much better in an NBA setting.

Yeah it looked like tons of space for him to go off there. That being said he bricked a ton of 3’s so can only imagine if he ever gets that going lol.

[ChillRelaxDude]

Thats bs. And all the people saying Summer League doesnt matter are parrots. VJ Edgecombe's had the same critcism all year at Baylor. Halfcourt offense and creating his own shot/jumpshot. He showed in this game he is working on it. He added a mid range pull up which he didnt have in college and it looked great. The pull up or self creation from three did not look good tonight but hes working on it which is good. Summer League doesnt mean nothing. Nothing means nothing.

Except for the summer league, it really means nothing. It only means something to people who have nothing going on, which makes them think it's something when it's not. The summer league is as nothing as the drew league.

The drew league doesnt mean nothing either. Anyone who says that just isnt a real basketball fan. Theres a very large group of people who care deeply about the league and are extremely invested in it. Invested there lives in it. And you just think its nothing. Ok.

Yes, I'm a fake basketball fan. I've been found out by the carer of the summer runs.

Things can simultaneously be fun and meaningless. This is exactly what these are.

[djsunyc]

when i first heard his name i thought he was a brown dude from guyana or trinidad...vijay edgecomb.

[OhCanada]

Except for the summer league, it really means nothing. It only means something to people who have nothing going on, which makes them think it's something when it's not. The summer league is as nothing as the drew league.

The drew league doesnt mean nothing either. Anyone who says that just isnt a real basketball fan. Theres a very large group of people who care deeply about the league and are extremely invested in it. Invested there lives in it. And you just think its nothing. Ok.

Yes, I'm a fake basketball fan. I've been found out by the carer of the summer runs.

Things can simultaneously be fun and meaningless. This is exactly what these are.

They arent meaningless. Teams tell their players we want you to work on/try out this, this and this. They get footage on them trying those things. They get a better understanding on what those players need to work on and reevaluate how they want to spend resources in developing them before they go off to work on their game for the summer.

For the players without NBA contracts its a chance to showcase their skills.It not just NBA teams here scouting. Theres teams all over the world trying to sign these guys. Right now David Jones-Garcia has 23 points. Does that mean hes gonna do that in the NBA? No probably not. But hes showing he has the talent to compete at a high level and is a pro basketball player even if its not in the NBA. It means something even if it doesn't mean he's going to do this in the NBA.

[tsherkin]

Usually you can tell who has really worked on their game. Like second year Siakam was handling the ball, and then at some point in the regular season they were letting him handle the ball. It didn't predict the level he'd get at, but the difference between how he looked as a rookie and how he looked at his 2nd summer league was significant that you could see development occurring.

Sometimes. Or at least, you can't always infer too much about how well what will translate against RS talent, but it is at least worth it to see. I still remember seeing, like, Andray Blatche kicking the piss out of the summer league and then being roast dog sphincter in the regular season, you know?

But as you say, you can at least see the difference in their second trip compared to their first trip, if they have that behind them already.

[OhCanada]

Usually you can tell who has really worked on their game. Like second year Siakam was handling the ball, and then at some point in the regular season they were letting him handle the ball. It didn't predict the level he'd get at, but the difference between how he looked as a rookie and how he looked at his 2nd summer league was significant that you could see development occurring.

Sometimes. Or at least, you can't always infer too much about how well what will translate against RS talent, but it is at least worth it to see. I still remember seeing, like, Andray Blatche kicking the piss out of the summer league and then being roast dog sphincter in the regular season, you know?

But as you say, you can at least see the difference in their second trip compared to their first trip, if they have that behind them already.

And thats the type of thing you absolutely cannot predict Blatche is a good player to bring up. Terrible conditioning, professionalism, uncoachable. Out of the league before he even turned 30. But the talent was clearly there. Wayne Selden is another guy. SL king. Carsen Edwards, Kevin Knox. It doesnt always translate to the next level. But theres plenty of cases of a good player dominating in SL and then dominating in the pros. Lets not act like VJ Edgecombe's gonna be "bad" because he had a good SL game.

Anyways this whole conversation is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks SL means nothing should just leave the thread. Whats the point of trying to convince people enjoying the summer runs otherwise?

[OhCanada]

The drew league doesnt mean nothing either. Anyone who says that just isnt a real basketball fan. Theres a very large group of people who care deeply about the league and are extremely invested in it. Invested there lives in it. And you just think its nothing. Ok.

Yes, I'm a fake basketball fan. I've been found out by the carer of the summer runs.

Things can simultaneously be fun and meaningless. This is exactly what these are.

They arent meaningless. Teams tell their players we want you to work on/try out this, this and this. They get footage on them trying those things. They get a better understanding on what those players need to work on and reevaluate how they want to spend resources in developing them before they go off to work on their game for the summer.

For the players without NBA contracts its a chance to showcase their skills.It not just NBA teams here scouting. Theres teams all over the world trying to sign these guys. Right now David Jones-Garcia has 23 points. Does that mean hes gonna do that in the NBA? No probably not. But hes showing he has the talent to compete at a high level and is a pro basketball player even if its not in the NBA. It means something even if it doesn't mean he's going to do this in the NBA.

He is. Kinda. He's from the Bahama's.

[tsherkin]

And thats the type of thing you absolutely cannot predict Blatche is a good player to bring up. Terrible conditioning, professionalism, uncoachable. Out of the league before he even turned 30. But the talent was clearly there. Wayne Selden is another guy. SL king. Carsen Edwards, Kevin Knox. It doesnt always translate to the next level. But theres plenty of cases of a good player dominating in SL and then dominating in the pros. Lets not act like VJ Edgecombe's gonna be "bad" because he had a good SL game.

Anyways this whole conversation is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks SL means nothing should just leave the thread. Whats the point of trying to convince people enjoying the summer runs otherwise?

I think it's more... "what should you be looking for and what should and shouldn't you take away?" as opposed to "this means nothing."

Merely for playing well, a player isn't guaranteed to look good in the RS. The how matters, and it's a tiny sample, so shooting streaks and stuff are still a thing. It's kind of like an extension of the college season. But like ATL said, especially with a guy who has a SL under his belt, you can see what's different. What they're trying, what looks smoother, etc.

With rooks... it's basically meaningless in terms of projection... but it's still an early look at the player, which can at least be entertaining.

[OhCanada]

And thats the type of thing you absolutely cannot predict Blatche is a good player to bring up. Terrible conditioning, professionalism, uncoachable. Out of the league before he even turned 30. But the talent was clearly there. Wayne Selden is another guy. SL king. Carsen Edwards, Kevin Knox. It doesnt always translate to the next level. But theres plenty of cases of a good player dominating in SL and then dominating in the pros. Lets not act like VJ Edgecombe's gonna be "bad" because he had a good SL game.

Anyways this whole conversation is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks SL means nothing should just leave the thread. Whats the point of trying to convince people enjoying the summer runs otherwise?

I think it's more... "what should you be looking for and what should and shouldn't you take away?" as opposed to "this means nothing."

Merely for playing well, a player isn't guaranteed to look good in the RS. The how matters, and it's a tiny sample, so shooting streaks and stuff are still a thing. It's kind of like an extension of the college season. But like ATL said, especially with a guy who has a SL under his belt, you can see what's different. What they're trying, what looks smoother, etc.

With rooks... it's basically meaningless in terms of projection... but it's still an early look at the player, which can at least be entertaining.

See thats the thing its not about you or me. Or what we take away from it. Its about the players 'training' the teams gathering footage the scouts gathering information etc. Its a datamine. A workout. A training run. A place for these young teammates to build some chemistry. Its not a place to find steals for your fantasy team.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Usually you can tell who has really worked on their game. Like second year Siakam was handling the ball, and then at some point in the regular season they were letting him handle the ball. It didn't predict the level he'd get at, but the difference between how he looked as a rookie and how he looked at his 2nd summer league was significant that you could see development occurring.

Sometimes. Or at least, you can't always infer too much about how well what will translate against RS talent, but it is at least worth it to see. I still remember seeing, like, Andray Blatche kicking the piss out of the summer league and then being roast dog sphincter in the regular season, you know?

But as you say, you can at least see the difference in their second trip compared to their first trip, if they have that behind them already.

Seeing development occur isn't the same as projecting that development into the NBA game. Andray Blatche could light up the NBA at times, too, but the stuff he was bad at rendered him a bench player. You can see when guys get better, but it's still against weak competition.

[Los_29]

The point still went over your head. Making that statement is insanely foolish and amateur. It’s one game. Evaluate him after all of Summer League. That’s a childish take.

I wouldn’t even evaluate him after Summer League. I think we need to evaluate these guys in a more organized, team-oriented setting. So many bad players have gone off in Summer League while so many good players struggled.

Evaluate him after 1000 games or at least 20 seasons in the NBA. Evaluate him after we find a cure for Cancer. Evaluate him after we find out how why and when the universe was created. Any earlier is insanely foolish and amateur.

Let’s just never evaluate him.

Never evaluating him would still be less foolish than evaluating him after one Summer League game.

[MessiahUjiri]

when i first heard his name i thought he was a brown dude from guyana or trinidad...vijay edgecomb.

[tsherkin]

See thats the thing its not about you or me. Or what we take away from it. Its about the players 'training' the teams gathering footage the scouts gathering information etc. Its a datamine. A workout. A training run. A place for these young teammates to build some chemistry. Its not a place to find steals for your fantasy team.

Sure... of some sort. But how well a player plays in the SL doesn't necessarily map to RS relevance, so that scouting matters only so much. That training matters only so much. The sets are less organized, the intensity of the games isn't that great, the quality of your teammates isn't that great... it's very, VERY different from even the early regular season.

So in terms of actual value and so forth, it's limited in what it can tell you... and remember, I was speaking from the POV of watching the SL. It's a good time for the coaches to get in some early work with prospects, for sure, so it has value from the perspective of how the coaching staff can interact with the players... but that's not what I was talking about at all.

Seeing development occur isn't the same as projecting that development into the NBA game. Andray Blatche could light up the NBA at times, too, but the stuff he was bad at rendered him a bench player. You can see when guys get better, but it's still against weak competition.

There are a bunch of guys every SL who light it up in the SL and never really show that in the RS, though, was more my point. And there's always SOMETHING which can get in the way. It's just different from the RS, so sometimes you see prospects doing well.

To whit.

Adam Morrison was picked 3rd overall. He played 161 games and started only 28, and was out of the NBA in 3 years.

In the 2012 SL, he averaged 20 ppg and 5 rpg and shot 62% from the field... and he didn't log a season shooting even 38% from the field in the NBA.

So again, there's some level of hesitation with which one must take performance in the SL, is all I'm saying.

[tsherkin]

Usually you can tell who has really worked on their game. Like second year Siakam was handling the ball, and then at some point in the regular season they were letting him handle the ball. It didn't predict the level he'd get at, but the difference between how he looked as a rookie and how he looked at his 2nd summer league was significant that you could see development occurring.

Sometimes. Or at least, you can't always infer too much about how well what will translate against RS talent, but it is at least worth it to see. I still remember seeing, like, Andray Blatche kicking the piss out of the summer league and then being roast dog sphincter in the regular season, you know?

But as you say, you can at least see the difference in their second trip compared to their first trip, if they have that behind them already.

Seeing development occur isn't the same as projecting that development into the NBA game. Andray Blatche could light up the NBA at times, too, but the stuff he was bad at rendered him a bench player. You can see when guys get better, but it's still against weak competition.

Sorry, I didn't fully answer this after quoting you, but I did address it a bit earlier. I agree completely that if the guy already has an SL under his belt, the second time around, you can see if they look different/better in some way compared to that first time. Whether that matters in the RS is another story, but you can see them looking different against SL competition, for sure.

[OhCanada]

I wouldn’t even evaluate him after Summer League. I think we need to evaluate these guys in a more organized, team-oriented setting. So many bad players have gone off in Summer League while so many good players struggled.

Evaluate him after 1000 games or at least 20 seasons in the NBA. Evaluate him after we find a cure for Cancer. Evaluate him after we find out how why and when the universe was created. Any earlier is insanely foolish and amateur.

Let’s just never evaluate him.

Never evaluating him would still be less foolish than evaluating him after one Summer League game.

The issue with evaluating is we dont know the context. We don't know why Kasparus Jakucionis has 6 points and 8 turnovers in 2 games and shot 1-10 FG's. We don't know what the team asked him to do, if he was having issues off the court etc. But we do for sure know whatever they were trying to do with him or whatever he was trying to do they failed miserably and he played terribly. Does that mean he will be a terrible pro? Nope. But he is struggling that much is very clear.

[manjusaka]

See thats the thing its not about you or me. Or what we take away from it. Its about the players 'training' the teams gathering footage the scouts gathering information etc. Its a datamine. A workout. A training run. A place for these young teammates to build some chemistry. Its not a place to find steals for your fantasy team.

Sure... of some sort. But how well a player plays in the SL doesn't necessarily map to RS relevance, so that scouting matters only so much. That training matters only so much. The sets are less organized, the intensity of the games isn't that great, the quality of your teammates isn't that great... it's very, VERY different from even the early regular season.

So in terms of actual value and so forth, it's limited in what it can tell you... and remember, I was speaking from the POV of watching the SL. It's a good time for the coaches to get in some early work with prospects, for sure, so it has value from the perspective of how the coaching staff can interact with the players... but that's not what I was talking about at all.

Seeing development occur isn't the same as projecting that development into the NBA game. Andray Blatche could light up the NBA at times, too, but the stuff he was bad at rendered him a bench player. You can see when guys get better, but it's still against weak competition.

There are a bunch of guys every SL who light it up in the SL and never really show that in the RS, though, was more my point. And there's always SOMETHING which can get in the way. It's just different from the RS, so sometimes you see prospects doing well.

To whit.

Adam Morrison was picked 3rd overall. He played 161 games and started only 28, and was out of the NBA in 3 years.

In the 2012 SL, he averaged 20 ppg and 5 rpg and shot 62% from the field... and he didn't log a season shooting even 38% from the field in the NBA.

So again, there's some level of hesitation with which one must take performance in the SL, is all I'm saying.

Morrison had major injury in the second year preseason. He is not a good sample for evaluating.

[tsherkin]

Morrison had major injury in the second year preseason. He is not a good sample for evaluating.

He's a perfect example if you realize I was correlating SL and regular season, not SL to SL. He sucked ass at the NBA level because he was not athletic at all. Even with his size and shooting ability, his scoring ability didn't translate even a little bit at the NBA level, despite rocking it in that particular SL.

[OhCanada]

Morrison had major injury in the second year preseason. He is not a good sample for evaluating.

He's a perfect example if you realize I was correlating SL and regular season, not SL to SL. He sucked ass at the NBA level because he was not athletic at all. Even with his size and shooting ability, his scoring ability didn't translate even a little bit at the NBA level, despite rocking it in that particular SL.

It also takes time for teams to get a scouting report on a player new to the league. Once thats out it creates trouble for that player and can sometimes make them unplayable.

[tsherkin]

It also takes time for teams to get a scouting report on a player new to the league. Once thats out it creates trouble for that player and can sometimes make them unplayable.

Morrison didn't have the stuff to make it in the NBA, was the point, but he crushed that first SL. He was useless in the RS from start to finish, despite that early success.

There are things you can take from the SL, but everything needs to evaluated in context, and not taken as gospel for how well the player will perform in the regular season, is the whole of my point on the subject. The level of competition isn't the same.

[bballsparkin]

Yes, I'm a fake basketball fan. I've been found out by the carer of the summer runs.

Things can simultaneously be fun and meaningless. This is exactly what these are.

Lol, they aren't meaningless. That's hyperbole. They are not to be taken as gospel either. There's levels to this. If VJ came out and bombed the game it doesn't mean he's a bust. But him coming out and playing like this is promising nonetheless. It's just too bad he's a 76er.