GS/Sac/Was - Kuminga, Ellis, Kispert

[xdrta+]

If kuminga gets 20 million which is much less than he is asking you are 5 million from 1st apron. The warriors will need to sign at least 3-5 more vet minimum type guys to field a roster of 13 to 15 guys. Vet minimum is between 2.3 to 3.6 million per player depending on the amount of time in the NBA. Maybe they sign some undrafted guys but the minimum is still 1.1. I think they are going to find it incredibly difficult to stay under the 2nd apron with signing kuminga.
I'm not debating value at all here, just that I don't see a way for them to keep kuminga without hamstringing their team.

Not too sure about your math here. If they sign Kuminga for $20M, they'll be at $191M with 10 players. Using the TPMLE puts them at $197M (rounding up), 11 players. All they can use now is minimum salaries, and they have about $11M for 3 players. There's no way in the world they will threaten the 2nd Apron.

[Nate the Great]

Just throwing bits and pieces of other rumors out there. I’m bad with numbers and trade rules, but I think this works per the Sportrac trade machine.

GS- sign and trade Jonathan Kuminga (deal starting at $26 mil).
Receive: Keon Ellis, Corey Kispert and Devin Carter
Warriors fill out the roster with a need at POA defense (Ellis), Shooting (Kispert) and a flier on Carter. Would still be under the apron to sign Horford.

Sac - trades Keon Ellis, Devin Carter, Dario Saric and two second rounders
Receive: Jonathan Kuminga
Kings get their guy (best player in the trade, unless you think Ellis is -at which there’s no point in talking about a Kuminga to Sac deal anyway) for a slight bit more than the lowball offer already reported.

Was-trade Corey Kispert
Receive-Dario Saric and two 2nds from Kings
With the acquisition of Whitmore, I imagine the Kuminga interest drops and the interest in moving Kispert grows. Wiz get him off the books and get two seconds

RealGM forbids the Warriors from getting a player like Keon Ellis, because he’d be useful to them. They’re supposed to trade Kuminga for guys who won’t play for them next year like Carter. And they’re supposed to like it, for some reason.

[longfellow44]

Just throwing bits and pieces of other rumors out there. I’m bad with numbers and trade rules, but I think this works per the Sportrac trade machine.

GS- sign and trade Jonathan Kuminga (deal starting at $26 mil).
Receive: Keon Ellis, Corey Kispert and Devin Carter
Warriors fill out the roster with a need at POA defense (Ellis), Shooting (Kispert) and a flier on Carter. Would still be under the apron to sign Horford.

Sac - trades Keon Ellis, Devin Carter, Dario Saric and two second rounders
Receive: Jonathan Kuminga
Kings get their guy (best player in the trade, unless you think Ellis is -at which there’s no point in talking about a Kuminga to Sac deal anyway) for a slight bit more than the lowball offer already reported.

Was-trade Corey Kispert
Receive-Dario Saric and two 2nds from Kings
With the acquisition of Whitmore, I imagine the Kuminga interest drops and the interest in moving Kispert grows. Wiz get him off the books and get two seconds

RealGM forbids the Warriors from getting a player like Keon Ellis, because he’d be useful to them. They’re supposed to trade Kuminga for guys who won’t play for them next year like Carter. And they’re supposed to like it, for some reason.

We aren't debating the value here. Sure keon would be great for the warriors, but if I had to give up keon for kuminga I would just walk away. We are debating whether the warriors have put themselves in a position where they need to trade kuminga because of salary issues, if they need to trade him then the kings have an offer out there of 2 2nd rounders or maybe a protected 1st plus Carter and filler. If the warriors need to make a trade this is the kings offer. But we don't desperately need a kuminga enough to give up a keon Ellis or a Keegan Murray, we aren't winning anything with or without kuminga this season.

[SNPA]

If Perry traded either Murray or Ellis for JK he’d be dome in Sac from a fans perspective in his first summer. All diehards would hate him and he’d never be able to recover. It’s a nonstarter. GS can’t just get whoever they want just because. If GS doesn’t like the offer, pass on it. The Kings can go after JK next summer when he is a FA, or he signs a larger deal and his trade value goes down. That’s up to GS, not Sac.

[OGSactownballer]

Absolutely not. Rather have keon than kuminga who im not sure is actually a winning player.

The offer is the offer. Carter + saric + 2nds

If warriors want to sign him and go into lux, good luck.

If Perry folds hes a clown.

Lux tax is unavoidable, but he can be re-upped on a short deal while avoiding the aprons and look to deal him in December and forward. The “offer” has been rejected already. If Perry wants to walk away from the table, cool. Warriors didn’t call him to it in the first place. Perry called them with interest in Kuminga

PROVE THAT.

The Warriors have been trying to avoid paying Kiminga for over a year. They are to blame for the situation they are in. Their HOF coach decided to play him in and out of the starting lineup. Their front office decided to trade for and overpay a nearly finished star in a vain hope of keeping an already closed window open. They have backed themselves into a corner of no value for their player by making that situation happen.
Perry is nobody’s fool. He will happily take a flyer on Kuminga as a potential solid rotational player (I have zero illusions at this point of his becoming an all star - let alone a number one on a top tier team). But only for a cheap price. The Dubs will either take what they can get because of their own folly in devaluing their player through foolishness, or they will overpay and find that the value gets far worse when they are forced to overpay for him.

[NW]

If Perry traded either Murray or Ellis for JK he’d be dome in Sac from a fans perspective in his first summer. All diehards would hate him and he’d never be able to recover. It’s a nonstarter. GS can’t just get whoever they want just because. If GS doesn’t like the offer, pass on it. The Kings can go after JK next summer when he is a FA, or he signs a larger deal and his trade value goes down. That’s up to GS, not Sac.

As already mentioned, and reported by Jake Fischer and others, the chances of him taking the QO is slim. So next summer, the kings will still need to make an offer and Carter/Saric's corpse/seconds still won't be enough.

The larger deal will likely be 2+1 around 20-25 mil. Should still be moveable if he shows any growth.

Again, Sac either wants the guy enough to make a reasonable offer, or they don't and GS is happy to keep it moving.

[NW]

Absolutely not. Rather have keon than kuminga who im not sure is actually a winning player.

The offer is the offer. Carter + saric + 2nds

If warriors want to sign him and go into lux, good luck.

If Perry folds hes a clown.

Lux tax is unavoidable, but he can be re-upped on a short deal while avoiding the aprons and look to deal him in December and forward. The “offer” has been rejected already. If Perry wants to walk away from the table, cool. Warriors didn’t call him to it in the first place. Perry called them with interest in Kuminga

PROVE THAT.

The Warriors have been trying to avoid paying Kiminga for over a year. They are to blame for the situation they are in. Their HOF coach decided tompkay in and out of the starting lineup. Their front office decided to trade for and overpay a nearly finished star in a vain hope of keeping an already closed window open. They have backed themselves into a corner of no value for their player by making that situation happen.
Morty is nobody’s fool. He will happily take a flyer on Kuminga as a potential solid rotational player (I have zero illusions at this point of his becoming an all star - let alone a number one on a top tier team). But only for a cheap price. The Duns will either take what they can get because of their own folly in devaluing their player through foolishness, or they will overpay and find that the value gets far worse when they are forced to overpay for him.

Already established GS had an offer on the table last summer. Linings passed because it was under the $30 mil he wanted land still isn't getting. Sac fans seem to be under the impression GS is backed into a corner because they're willing to move on from JK. The issue is not that the Warriors can keep or trade Kuminga, it's that the Kings want him. The lowball offer has reportedly been dismissed, but the Kings remain "the strongest pursuer" per top beat writer Anthony Slater.

[x]

Read on Twitter

[/x]

No motivation for the Warriors to settle down so the Kings can go up on their offer or all parties can walk away. Carter isn't doing it, Monk isn't doing it (though I believe that's more a contract issue than a player one)

[SNPA]

If Perry traded either Murray or Ellis for JK he’d be dome in Sac from a fans perspective in his first summer. All diehards would hate him and he’d never be able to recover. It’s a nonstarter. GS can’t just get whoever they want just because. If GS doesn’t like the offer, pass on it. The Kings can go after JK next summer when he is a FA, or he signs a larger deal and his trade value goes down. That’s up to GS, not Sac.

As already mentioned, and reported by Jake Fischer and others, the chances of him taking the QO is slim. So next summer, the kings will still need to make an offer and Carter/Saric's corpse/seconds still won't be enough.

The larger deal will likely be 2+1 around 20-25 mil. Should still be moveable if he shows any growth.

Again, Sac either wants the guy enough to make a reasonable offer, or they don't and GS is happy to keep it moving.

It’s funny how GS fans think they have leverage. Why doesn’t GS just take one of the many better offers they have on the table? Oh…yeah….that’s why.

Sac is not a JK away from a title. It’s GS that believes they are still in a title window that’s closing fast. If GS wants to wait it out and see what happens…check this, we’re Kings fans. We can wait. It’s what we do.

[Lenneth]

If kuminga gets 20 million which is much less than he is asking you are 5 million from 1st apron. The warriors will need to sign at least 3-5 more vet minimum type guys to field a roster of 13 to 15 guys. Vet minimum is between 2.3 to 3.6 million per player depending on the amount of time in the NBA. Maybe they sign some undrafted guys but the minimum is still 1.1. I think they are going to find it incredibly difficult to stay under the 2nd apron with signing kuminga.


I'm not debating value at all here, just that I don't see a way for them to keep kuminga without hamstringing their team.

Warriors would likely go over the first apron with Kuminga signing. Warriors' current salaries are 171 mils with 9 players, the first apron is 196 mils (25 mils from now), and the second apron is 208 mils (37 mils from now). If Warriors sign Kuminga with 20 mils as the first year and Horford with 5 mils, that would put them over the first apron with remaining unsigned rosters. For the remaining roster slots, the Warriors probably would dance with G league/two-way contracts to lower the salary to like 500k per year or less (Post and Spencer cost 439K last year, and Knox cost 264k). Warriors probably split the one 2nd round pick this year into two 2nd round picks just for this. So, their 13th-15th rosters might cost around a mil or two total. Warriors are comfortable going over the first apron, and I don't think they would hesitate to do so. And, it looks like they have a room to spare till they reach the 2nd apron.

[Lenneth]

If Perry traded either Murray or Ellis for JK he’d be dome in Sac from a fans perspective in his first summer. All diehards would hate him and he’d never be able to recover. It’s a nonstarter. GS can’t just get whoever they want just because. If GS doesn’t like the offer, pass on it. The Kings can go after JK next summer when he is a FA, or he signs a larger deal and his trade value goes down. That’s up to GS, not Sac.

As already mentioned, and reported by Jake Fischer and others, the chances of him taking the QO is slim. So next summer, the kings will still need to make an offer and Carter/Saric's corpse/seconds still won't be enough.

The larger deal will likely be 2+1 around 20-25 mil. Should still be moveable if he shows any growth.

Again, Sac either wants the guy enough to make a reasonable offer, or they don't and GS is happy to keep it moving.

It’s funny how GS fans think they have leverage. Why doesn’t GS just take one of the many better offers they have on the table? Oh…yeah….that’s why.

Sac is not a JK away from a title. It’s GS that believes they are still in a title window that’s closing fast. If GS wants to wait it out and see what happens…check this, we’re Kings fans. We can wait. It’s what we do.

Here is what Warriors want from Kuminga.

1. Sign-and-trade for assets
2. Sign him for a qualifying offer or a small deal, and trade him after his BYC goes away.
3. Keep him for a season or a long term.
4. Sign-and-trade him for a deal that doesn't meet their need (Kings deal).
5. Let him go for free.

If Warriors can get assets for Kuminga, that would be the best for both worlds. But, if those deals don't exist, Warriors can keep Kuminga and trade during the season, when Warriors don't need to worry about his BYC status, which might be the most likely scenario right now. Warriors can also keep him for the season and let me be UFA, or just keep him for the long term if things go right. With the Warriors' ancient core, they need someone to produce, especially during the regular season, and Kuminga can be that guy to produce 15-20 pts per night, even just for one season. All those are better options than the current Kings deal.

[SNPA]

As already mentioned, and reported by Jake Fischer and others, the chances of him taking the QO is slim. So next summer, the kings will still need to make an offer and Carter/Saric's corpse/seconds still won't be enough.

The larger deal will likely be 2+1 around 20-25 mil. Should still be moveable if he shows any growth.

Again, Sac either wants the guy enough to make a reasonable offer, or they don't and GS is happy to keep it moving.

It’s funny how GS fans think they have leverage. Why doesn’t GS just take one of the many better offers they have on the table? Oh…yeah….that’s why.

Sac is not a JK away from a title. It’s GS that believes they are still in a title window that’s closing fast. If GS wants to wait it out and see what happens…check this, we’re Kings fans. We can wait. It’s what we do.

Here is what Warriors want from Kuminga.

1. Sign-and-trade for assets
2. Sign him for a qualifying offer or a small deal, and trade him after his BYC goes away.
3. Keep him for a season or a long term.
4. Sign-and-trade him for a deal that doesn't meet their need (Kings deal).
5. Let him go for free.

1- Then they should S&T him. Why is it taking so long? I think we all know why.

2 - This is two options…QO is his choice. And…why would he accept a “small deal?”

3 - This is also two options, keep him short or long term…again…then do that. Why isn’t it happening? What’s the hold up? GS could do this at any time.

4 - This is the first currently feasible option - based on abilities and results so far.

5 - Could happen.

Carter is also being undervalued here. Lots of Kings fans aren’t thrilled he is in the deal. I’m one of them. I think he’d be great for GS and is a safer bet for being a winning player…just not the same upside.

[Lenneth]

It’s funny how GS fans think they have leverage. Why doesn’t GS just take one of the many better offers they have on the table? Oh…yeah….that’s why.

Sac is not a JK away from a title. It’s GS that believes they are still in a title window that’s closing fast. If GS wants to wait it out and see what happens…check this, we’re Kings fans. We can wait. It’s what we do.

Here is what Warriors want from Kuminga.

1. Sign-and-trade for assets
2. Sign him for a qualifying offer or a small deal, and trade him after his BYC goes away.
3. Keep him for a season or a long term.
4. Sign-and-trade him for a deal that doesn't meet their need (Kings deal).
5. Let him go for free.

1- Then they should S&T him. Why is it taking so long? I think we all know why.

2 - This is two options…QO is his choice. And…why would he accept a “small deal?”

3 - This is also two options, keep him short or long term…again…then do that. Why isn’t it happening? What’s the hold up? GS could do this at any time.

4 - This is the first currently feasible option - based on abilities and results so far.

5 - Could happen.

Carter is also being undervalued here. Lots of Kings fans aren’t thrilled he is in the deal. I’m one of them. I think he’d be great for GS and is a safer bet for being a winning player…just not the same upside.

In order for sign-and-trade to happen, Kuminga and the new team need to agree on the deal (or some sort of ball-park agreement) AND Warriors need to agree on the sign-and-trade deal. Nothing is materialized because both conditions are not met. I mean, you sound like Warriors can sign Kuminga whenever they want for some reason, when Kuminga is still waiting for a deal from other teams. If he doesn't think he would get a big contract, he would sign with Warriors. So, it would take a while. Kuminga can either sign QO or sign something like 2 years/40 mils to get some sort of financial security. And, as far as I know, signing QO prevent Kuminga from being traded for a year. If Kuminga wish to be traded during the season, he must sign a new deal with Warriors.

[NW]

If Perry traded either Murray or Ellis for JK he’d be dome in Sac from a fans perspective in his first summer. All diehards would hate him and he’d never be able to recover. It’s a nonstarter. GS can’t just get whoever they want just because. If GS doesn’t like the offer, pass on it. The Kings can go after JK next summer when he is a FA, or he signs a larger deal and his trade value goes down. That’s up to GS, not Sac.

As already mentioned, and reported by Jake Fischer and others, the chances of him taking the QO is slim. So next summer, the kings will still need to make an offer and Carter/Saric's corpse/seconds still won't be enough.

The larger deal will likely be 2+1 around 20-25 mil. Should still be moveable if he shows any growth.

Again, Sac either wants the guy enough to make a reasonable offer, or they don't and GS is happy to keep it moving.

It’s funny how GS fans think they have leverage. Why doesn’t GS just take one of the many better offers they have on the table? Oh…yeah….that’s why.

Sac is not a JK away from a title. It’s GS that believes they are still in a title window that’s closing fast. If GS wants to wait it out and see what happens…check this, we’re Kings fans. We can wait. It’s what we do.

Therein lies the mistakes the belief of Sac fans that GS has to trade Kuminga for whatever deal is on the table. They don't. Resigning him to a shorter tradeable deal remains a viable option and continues to.

Again, the Kings are the ones pursuing Kuminga. The Warriors aren't calling them asking the Kings to take them. Even Sac writers are reporting they have put Monk on the table, so clearly they're not as unmoving on the offer as some Kings fans think they are.

Reports are Kuminga and his agent are heading to Vegas next week to talk to teams. GS is content to let all this play out

[nate33]

Again, the Kings are the ones pursuing Kuminga. The Warriors aren't calling them asking the Kings to take them. Even Sac writers are reporting they have put Monk on the table, so clearly they're not as unmoving on the offer as some Kings fans think they are.

Reports are Kuminga and his agent are heading to Vegas next week to talk to teams. GS is content to let all this play out

If the best deal Kuminga can find is a full MLE from somewhere, do you expect the Warriors to match?

[NW]

Again, the Kings are the ones pursuing Kuminga. The Warriors aren't calling them asking the Kings to take them. Even Sac writers are reporting they have put Monk on the table, so clearly they're not as unmoving on the offer as some Kings fans think they are.

Reports are Kuminga and his agent are heading to Vegas next week to talk to teams. GS is content to let all this play out

If the best deal Kuminga can find is a full MLE from somewhere, do you expect the Warriors to match?

They'll match that in a heartbeat

[xdrta+]

And, as far as I know, signing QO prevent Kuminga from being traded for a year. If Kuminga wish to be traded during the season, he must sign a new deal with Warriors.

Not how it works. Any player who signs the QO has veto power over a trade, and if he agrees to a trade he will lose his Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season and will instead will have Non-Bird rights. Meaning the most his new team could offer would be a contract starting at 120% of his previous salary. In Kuminga's case, about $9.6M.

[SNPA]

Again, the Kings are the ones pursuing Kuminga. The Warriors aren't calling them asking the Kings to take them. Even Sac writers are reporting they have put Monk on the table, so clearly they're not as unmoving on the offer as some Kings fans think they are.

Reports are Kuminga and his agent are heading to Vegas next week to talk to teams. GS is content to let all this play out

If the best deal Kuminga can find is a full MLE from somewhere, do you expect the Warriors to match?

They'll match that in a heartbeat

If JK wanted the MLE he’d have signed by now.

[NW]

If the best deal Kuminga can find is a full MLE from somewhere, do you expect the Warriors to match?

They'll match that in a heartbeat

If JK wanted the MLE he’d have signed by now.

It’s not what he wanted. It’s what his options are dwindling down to. Even more since the Kings used the TPE for Schroder and hard capped themselves

[SNPA]

They'll match that in a heartbeat

If JK wanted the MLE he’d have signed by now.

It’s not what he wanted. It’s what his options are dwindling down to. Even more since the Kings used the TPE for Schroder and hard capped themselves

It’s actually pretty funny. GS pulled him during the playoffs. They showed the entire league they don’t think he is a playoff caliber player at this point (4 years in their system). But somehow the rest of the league wasn’t supposed to notice? No extension either?

GS has made their position clear, yet fans are here arguing GS would be happy to pay the tax and pay him a real contract or he’d accept a small deal. lol. We can all see ya’know?

[NW]

If JK wanted the MLE he’d have signed by now.

It’s not what he wanted. It’s what his options are dwindling down to. Even more since the Kings used the TPE for Schroder and hard capped themselves

It’s actually pretty funny. GS pulled him during the playoffs. They showed the entire league they don’t think he is a playoff caliber player at this point (4 years in their system). But somehow the rest of the league wasn’t supposed to notice? No extension either?

GS has made their position clear, yet fans are here arguing GS would be happy to pay the tax and pay him a real contract or he’d accept a small deal. lol. We can all see ya’know?

The Warriors reportedly offered him around $125 mil last summer. He’s clearly going to sign for less this summer. He’s an asset, no matter what you think the Warriors feel his fit is. You don’t trick off an asset on what is looking like a favorable deal (especially when the owner loves the guy) for Devin Carter.

His fit on GS is irrelevant. The Kings aren’t trying to trade for him for how he fits on the Warriors. They’re trying to trade for him for how they think he fits on the Kings. If it’s a positive fit, make a positive offer. Add Ellis or flip Monk to a third team for something the Warriors might be interested in.