Bill Simmons RIPS the Raptors roster and salaries. (UPDATE Zach Lowe & Rob Mahoney go in on Raptors)

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

We should be a team full of 20 somethings, instead...the guy who handed BI 121M just got fired. No GM wanted to give him a contract.

Dude plays like 40 games a year.

[Appostis]

We should be a team full of 20 somethings, instead...the guy who handed BI 121M just got fired. No GM wanted to give him a contract.

Dude plays like 40 games a year.

We are a team of 20 somethings...

Even BI is only 27(28 by seasons start).

So you have a entire team with 1 soon to be 30 year old starter in the rotation..

[mtcan]

We should be a team full of 20 somethings, instead...the guy who handed BI 121M just got fired. No GM wanted to give him a contract.

Dude plays like 40 games a year.

We ARE a team of 20-somethings. Poeltl's the oldest starter and he's still just 29. Ingram's 27 and just in his prime. Quickley's 26. RJ's 25. Scottie is 24. The entire bench aside from Temple are all younger than 25.

They are down on Ingram making 40 million per because Myles Turner is making 27 million...like seriously? Different tier of player. BI's still 20+ pts, 5 rebounds and 5 assists as a primary scorer is paid appropriately. And they are down on Barnes...a former rookie of the year and all-star...getting a max extension. Pure stupidity. Who would question that at the time?????

This is typical offseason slop. Bill hated that a former rookie of the year and all-star in his 3rd season got a max extension. LOLOLOL...give me a **** break. All of the "good stats on a bad team" talk...it's all contextual. Basketball is still a team sport. Devin Booker was labelled this for years until his team was finally good enough to make the playoffs and all the sudden, he wasn't and it was this revelation to the world...meanwhile he's been performing the same way even when the supporting cast was ****. Rusilo at some point was realizing how he was contradicting himself and questioning his Toronto pick saying that he only didn't like how expensive the roster is then Bill tries to get Rusilo to keep his Toronto pick stating these picks don't have to make sense...it's how they "FEEL". This whole discussion is so stupid. Roster is expensive for the level of performance the 2 years I get it...but it ain't your **** money. And it isn't like we are hard capped and we aren't in a situation where we can't make moves to either get better or cut costs. I'm fine with letting this roster play and either sink or swim. If they are right and we are under .500 at the trade deadline...I'm happy to concede to them...but to be down because you are using 2 years of tanking to analyze the cost a roster...it's stupid. We will never be a player with cap space so as long as ownership is willing to spend to gather assets...then that is their decision.

[CPT]

It would be nice if they defined it a little better instead of that “no rules, just feel” thing. Like who will have the fewest wins in the next 5 year period. I don’t think we’d be on the list. Fewest playoff (series) wins? We might be in the mix. I’d still count on the Charlottes and Washingtons to muck up situations that may (or may not) look better at present.

I agree with their criticism of the BI deal. We traded assets for the right to give BI a contract I don’t think anyone else would have this offseason. He probably gets a 1 + 1 “prove you can stay healthy” deal from a(nother) bad team. I just don’t think any team that is trying to win playoff games is willingly hitching their wagon to Brandon Ingram. He’s on the team now though, so I hope I’m wrong.

I see both sides of the Quickley deal. I think he’s an average to below-average starting PG, and you can likely get 80% of what he brings for 50% of the cost. That said, at a certain point, you just want 100% of the decent player.

Simmons’ criticism of the Scottie Barnes deal has always been weird. I get that he’s probably not what you want from a max player, but he was always going to get it, and he still has positive value right now. Only other option was to make a proactive trade and reset the clock on another rookie scale guy you like better. Who knows what that would look like though.

[OakleyDokely]

These guys are idiots.

Any team in the NBA that controls all their future picks isn't in a bad or unfixable position.

The teams that are really screwed are the older ones, who aren't really contenders anymore, who owe 1sts and/or swaps well into the future, who are into the tax or close to.

If things go really badly for the Raps, they will can still tank for a high pick and get the next hot prospect.

[OakleyDokely]

We should be a team full of 20 somethings, instead...the guy who handed BI 121M just got fired. No GM wanted to give him a contract.

Dude plays like 40 games a year.

They are a team of 20 somethings. Even Ingram is only 27.

Projected top 15:

Murray-Boyes 20 - on rookie deal
Walter 20 - on rookie deal
Dick 21 - on rookie deal
Shead 22 - on rookie deal
Barnes 23
Martin 23 - on rookie deal
Mogbo 23 - on rookie deal
Battle 24 - on rookie deal
Ochai 25 - on rookie deal
Barret 25
Quickley 26
Mamukelashvili 26
Ingram 27
Poellt 29
Temple 39

The Raps currently only have 1 player over 30, Temple whose the 15th man. 13 of the 15 are currently 27 and under. More than half the roster is on a rookie deal.

[Los_29]

We should be a team full of 20 somethings, instead...the guy who handed BI 121M just got fired. No GM wanted to give him a contract.

Dude plays like 40 games a year.

What team are you referring to? Surely it can’t be the Raptors.

We are a team of 20 somethings. This isn’t 2019. Our team is super young.

[TorontoRapsFan]

It would be nice if they defined it a little better instead of that “no rules, just feel” thing. Like who will have the fewest wins in the next 5 year period. I don’t think we’d be on the list. Fewest playoff (series) wins? We might be in the mix. I’d still count on the Charlottes and Washingtons to muck up situations that may (or may not) look better at present.

I agree with their criticism of the BI deal. We traded assets for the right to give BI a contract I don’t think anyone else would have this offseason. He probably gets a 1 + 1 “prove you can stay healthy” deal from a(nother) bad team. I just don’t think any team that is trying to win playoff games is willingly hitching their wagon to Brandon Ingram. He’s on the team now though, so I hope I’m wrong.

I see both sides of the Quickley deal. I think he’s an average to below-average starting PG, and you can likely get 80% of what he brings for 50% of the cost. That said, at a certain point, you just want 100% of the decent player.

Simmons’ criticism of the Scottie Barnes deal has always been weird. I get that he’s probably not what you want from a max player, but he was always going to get it, and he still has positive value right now. Only other option was to make a proactive trade and reset the clock on another rookie scale guy you like better. Who knows what that would look like though.

I'd say it was more than just the right to give him a contract. We wouldn't have been able to get him even at 30, unless doing a s&t and that would have meant losing other pieces. That's in addition to competing with other teams. There definitely would have been at least a few other teams willing to take him on. And if cheaper NO probably would do their best to keep him too.

Besides all of this, the guy creates his own shots and can make tough shots. I don't see why no one is admitting to having got a shot maker. Just cause he's not shooting .400 from 3? He stays healthy and he'll show up as an all star.

[djsunyc]

my guess is they meant salary in the 20 something millions per year (not age). not guys making 30+ mil.

[djsunyc]

regarding bill and rusillo...just win baby and haters will shut up.

[ForeverTFC]

Latest podcast and they go in on the Raptors again. Enjoy

Russillo just sucking up hard to the man who writes his cheques here.

Russillo hates Raptors fans. It’s not a secret and he’s made his vendetta clear.

[ForeverTFC]

Going by the comments, I have to assume most here don’t listen to Simmons and Russillo regularly.

I’ve been reading Simmons since Page 2 and listen to Simmons and Russillo pods regularly; Simmons out of habit and Russillo because he has the best pod out there - 2nd now after Lowe.

Simmons doesn’t like the Raptors. He thinks Scottie’s contract is one of the worst in the league. He’s also extremely petty and the Perkins stuff is going to get him dug in.

Russillo hates Raptors fans because of what happened after he talked **** about Lowry. He’s made it clear that he will never forgive Raptors fans.

I will save you all the trouble with bumping this thread when over/unders come out - they will have us as one of their locks for the under.

[TheGeneral99]

We should be a team full of 20 somethings, instead...the guy who handed BI 121M just got fired. No GM wanted to give him a contract.

Dude plays like 40 games a year.

Are we not a team full of 20 somethings? Am I missing something?

Scottie - 23
Quickley - 26
Ingram - 27
Barrett - 25
Gradey - 21
Walters - 21
CMB - 20
Shead - 22
Mogbo - 23
Poeltl - 29

The only person above the age of 29 is Temple.

Also you are incorrect, Ingram actually declined a 4 year 160m from the Pelicans last summer. He ended up signing with us on a shorter, more flexible deal.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25153369-nba-rumors-brandon-ingram-passed-4-year-160m-pelicans-contract-trade

Per NBA insider Jake Fischer, Ingram "passed" on a four-year, $160 million offer from the Pelicans.

"League sources tell the The Stein Line that Ingram, in fact, passed on a four-year, $160 million deal from the Pelicans that would have kept him in New Orleans, meaning there was some serious money left on the proverbial table in his quest for more," Fischer wrote.

[Jadoogar]

Every starter being paid a 20% premium. Change Bill's mind.

Nah. Don’t change bill’s mind. Kendrick Perkins will slap some sense into him.

Bill Simmons is a sad Celtics fan. I’ll leave it at that.

This board is such homers that we are now saying Kendrick Perkins is smart just because he said the raptors would make the playoffs? Wild stuff
Even if the Raptors make the playoffs, does it matter? It would only be because the Celtics and Pacers (and probably sixers) are injured. This roster has very little upside.

[DG88]

How are we the bleakest team? Can they see 5 years into the future? It's not like the Raptors are over the 2nd Apron, have a bunch players 35+, and have traded away all their future picks over the next 5 years lol.

Look how things have changed with some teams within a 5 year span. Making these conclusions is just asinine and is all for clicks for Bill Simmons and Ryen Russilio

[OakleyDokely]

This list was done in May (by Sean Marks and Jeremy Woo) and gives a pretty good summary of where teams sit from an asset/draft pick standpoint well out into the future.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44938717/nba-draft-asset-rankings-stacking-all-30-teams-pick-collections

Which NBA franchises control the draft -- both in June and over the next seven seasons?

For playoff teams such as the Oklahoma City Thunder and Houston Rockets, those enviable collections of picks can be used to bolster rosters that are already proven contenders -- either to add depth or to add a star via trade.

Bottom-tier teams such as the Utah Jazz, Washington Wizards and Charlotte Hornets are hoping for some lottery luck and the chance to draft projected No. 1 pick Cooper Flagg.

Other teams, such as the Los Angeles Lakers, Milwaukee Bucks and Denver Nuggets, probably won't be able to add significant help to their rosters through the draft this offseason.

Let's break down the future assets of all 30 teams, plus the strategy each could implement during the 2025 draft, June 25-26 in Brooklyn.

Top 10 teams:
1. OKC
2. BRK
3. UTA
4. HOU
5. CHA
6. WAS
7. DET
8. SAC
9. ORL
10. TOR

Bottom 10 teams:

30. MIN
29. DEN
28. MIL
27. PHX
26. LAL
25. CLE
24. NYK
23. LAC
22. MIA
21. BOS
20. DAL


Those teams in the bottom 10 who aren't challenging for the title for the foreseeable future, are the teams currently in the worst position moving forward.

[YogurtProducer]

How are we the bleakest team? Can they see 5 years into the future? It's not like the Raptors are over the 2nd Apron, have a bunch players 35+, and have traded away all their future picks over the next 5 years lol.

Look how things have changed with some teams within a 5 year span. Making these conclusions is just asinine and is all for clicks for Bill Simmons and Ryen Russilio

Off the top of my head I would take our situation over:

MIL
PHO
CHI
NOP
POR
SAC
UTA
WAS

and then there is like a dozen teams that are all so similar that who really cares. I don't see our situation or like ORL or ATL or DET meaningfully different enough to feel strongly one way or another.

[YogurtProducer]

This list was done in May (by Sean Marks and Jeremy Woo) and gives a pretty good summary of where teams sit from an asset/draft pick standpoint well out into the future.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44938717/nba-draft-asset-rankings-stacking-all-30-teams-pick-collections

Which NBA franchises control the draft -- both in June and over the next seven seasons?

For playoff teams such as the Oklahoma City Thunder and Houston Rockets, those enviable collections of picks can be used to bolster rosters that are already proven contenders -- either to add depth or to add a star via trade.

Bottom-tier teams such as the Utah Jazz, Washington Wizards and Charlotte Hornets are hoping for some lottery luck and the chance to draft projected No. 1 pick Cooper Flagg.

Other teams, such as the Los Angeles Lakers, Milwaukee Bucks and Denver Nuggets, probably won't be able to add significant help to their rosters through the draft this offseason.

Let's break down the future assets of all 30 teams, plus the strategy each could implement during the 2025 draft, June 25-26 in Brooklyn.

Top 10 teams:
1. OKC
2. BRK
3. UTA
4. HOU
5. CHA
6. WAS
7. DET
8. SAC
9. ORL
10. TOR

and we likely have a top 5 player collection of those top 10 draft asset teams. OKC/HOU/DET/ORL/TOR would be my top 5.

[ciueli]

So right now Josh Giddey is fighting to get to $30M/year on his next contract when he is better than IQ in a number of ways https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281266/Josh-Giddey-Dug-In-On-$30M-Per-Year-Contract.

He's coming off a season where he put up 14.6 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 7.2 APG with 37.8% 3pt shooting, +3.0 Box +/-, and 57% True Shooting. Still not 23 so younger than IQ and a multi-positional player at a listed 6'8" who was used as a PG this season, multiple stats show he is a better defensive player than IQ (better at steals, blocks, Defensive Rating, and Defensive Box +/-) and he can't even get what IQ got last year, this is really good indicator that we overpaid IQ.

Giddey was unplayable in the playoffs. It’s great that he put up a decent stat line on a bad team but the concerns are still there.

Giddey is still only 22, played in two playoff series when he was 21 and you've already written him off as "unplayable in the playoffs" on the basis of that? I guess we made a huge mistake trading for Brandon Ingram because the last time he was in the playoffs he averaged 14PPG on 36% eFG% at the age of 26. Do you think he's unplayable in a playoff series?

And it’s not an indicator we overpaid IQ. It was what the market was at the time. If we didn’t give 30 million to IQ, someone else would have.

No, really no one else was backing up the truck for IQ, and even if they did we could have just matched their offer because (as I am very tired of pointing out) IQ was a RESTRICTED free agent. There was never any fear of him getting poached by another team because the only way another team was prying him away from us was a full max contract and no team was giving him that kind of money because he wasn't and isn't close to worth it.

Look at what Suggs got and that guy is like a 12ppg shooting guard in a point guards body. Mediocre shooter, mediocre playmaker.

Yes, look at what Suggs got coming off a season where he shot nearly 40% from 3 and made an All-Defence team, he actually had an accolade to his credit and a clear role on a contending team, and got LESS than IQ on the whole of his contract, importantly his contract declines into the future when the cap is increasing, that's massively valuable for a player who is one of the best PG defenders in the NBA. I'm not sure what IQ did to justify getting payed more, I'd take Suggs on that contract 10 times out of 10 instead of IQ, at least I can count on him being part of a functional NBA defence.

[littlerock2277]

Going by the comments, I have to assume most here don’t listen to Simmons and Russillo regularly.

I’ve been reading Simmons since Page 2 and listen to Simmons and Russillo pods regularly; Simmons out of habit and Russillo because he has the best pod out there - 2nd now after Lowe.

Simmons doesn’t like the Raptors. He thinks Scottie’s contract is one of the worst in the league. He’s also extremely petty and the Perkins stuff is going to get him dug in.

Russillo hates Raptors fans because of what happened after he talked **** about Lowry. He’s made it clear that he will never forgive Raptors fans.

I will save you all the trouble with bumping this thread when over/unders come out - they will have us as one of their locks for the under.

Curious what he said about Lowry? Just recently started listening to bill and Russillo and these recent podcasts they had I could clearly see this werid agenda he has against our team. I can see why raptors fan attack him.