[Shams] Norman Powell to Miami, John Collins to Clippers

[OkcSinceSGA]

Totally agree... I think the Clippers wanted this deal to happen ASAP to secure Beal. No way he goes there if Norm was still on the roster. Clippers would have gotten a lot better this offseason if they are able to land him.

Agreed. I especially want them to grab CP3 for a “last dance” retirement year. It would be a feel good story. He’s already made peace with Ballmer. With the league being as open as it is right now before OKC/Spurs truly lock it down I feel like we have 1-2 years left maybe of a surprise champ scenario with good luck.

Harden/Beal/CP (at this age) is a disaster defensively. While its a great feel good story, you need Dunn/DJJ eating some of those minutes.

Agreed defensively it’s bad with those 3. But Dunn/DJ/Kawhi/Zu/Batum/Lopez are all fantastic defenders. You have to think of it they are swapping Dunn/Powell in starting 5 for say Beal/Collins. A drop off from Dunn, but Collins is a slight improvement.

Another thing to note. James Harden was actually a good defender last year. You won’t believe it without seeing it for yourself. He has his lazy games where he ball watches but he had super active hands on driving players and is still a post up stopper.

Dunn would probably get a lot of PT still. CP3 hopefully will take a very small role

[Scoundreldays]

Is Beal still any good? Him potentially coming to the Clippers gives me John Wall vibes

[Exp0sed]

Just heard it on NoDunks. Good get for Miami, they didn't have to give up squat.

Except the right to overpay a good scorer and shooter but generally one dimensional player, who'll be 33 when the next playoffs come around

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[DusterBuster]

Norm Powell always plays really well but has next to zero trade value.

John Collins puts up empty stats on every team he's no and has next to zero impact on games, so his value is always historically low.

So essentially, Norm Powell was only worth a couple filler expiring and a 2nd rounder... again (as he was when he was packaged with Covington to go from Portland to LAC originally), even after a near AS caliber season.

Great deal for Miami.

Clippers did a "need" trade vs pure talent, I don't see it working out well for them.

It's whatever for the Jazz. Moved a useless player and got a second rounder for their troubles.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Is Beal still any good? Him potentially coming to the Clippers gives me John Wall vibes

Metrics hate the kind of player Beal is… so data wise hard for me to tell. My thinking is the Clippers will come down more to the usual. Which Kawhi will they get, and is Kawhi healthy. Someone like Beal won’t be the difference between winning it or not. I think with Beal you can get 18-22 ppg on good TS%, okay playmaking and no defense. It’s basically Norm Powell replacement with a higher IQ but weaker frame.

[mg]

Just heard it on NoDunks. Good get for Miami, they didn't have to give up squat.

Except the right to overpay a good scorer and shooter but generally one dimensional player, who'll be 33 when the next playoffs come around

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

Allows Miami to just waive (or whatever) Rozier. This is only a one year commitment to Powell unless he's willing to sign on the cheap next offseason.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Norm Powell always plays really well but has next to zero trade value.

John Collins puts up empty stats on every team he's no and has next to zero impact on games, so his value is always historically low.

So essentially, Norm Powell was only worth a couple filler expiring and a 2nd rounder... again (as he was when he was packaged with Covington to go from Portland to LAC originally), even after a near AS caliber season.

Great deal for Miami. Clippers did a "need" trade vs pure talent, I don't see it working out well for them.

It's whatever for the Jazz. Moved a useless player and got a second rounder for their troubles.

Empty stats or not.. clippers BADLY lacked rebounding, athleticism in the paint and size in recent years. When Zu sits.. the team gives up millions of offensive rebounds, failed box outs, put backs etc. I realize Collins isn’t Rodman but I think people aren’t understanding how much adding a starting PF and backup center will do.

They went from one of the weakest big man rotations in the NBA to a top 5 one.

[knicksstuff]

really surprised people think Miami is the winner in this trade. They traded for a player that plays the same position as their "best" or "second best" player. Are they goign to start herro and powell in the same backcourt. they didnt give up anything so i guess no risk for them here

[Tor_Raps]

Agreed. I especially want them to grab CP3 for a “last dance” retirement year. It would be a feel good story. He’s already made peace with Ballmer. With the league being as open as it is right now before OKC/Spurs truly lock it down I feel like we have 1-2 years left maybe of a surprise champ scenario with good luck.

Harden/Beal/CP (at this age) is a disaster defensively. While its a great feel good story, you need Dunn/DJJ eating some of those minutes.

Agreed defensively it’s bad with those 3. But Dunn/DJ/Kawhi/Zu/Batum/Lopez are all fantastic defenders. You have to think of it they are swapping Dunn/Powell in starting 5 for say Beal/Collins. A drop off from Dunn, but Collins is a slight improvement.

Another thing to note. James Harden was actually a good defender last year. You won’t believe it without seeing it for yourself. He has his lazy games where he ball watches but he had super active hands on driving players and is still a post up stopper.

Dunn would probably get a lot of PT still. CP3 hopefully will take a very small role

Harden has always been the most elite post defender without being people realizing it. However, that was with the Clippers not really having a PF so he ended up in the paint more often.

Now that the Clippers added Collins, Harden will have to primarily play perimeter defense and he has and always will be horrible there lol.

[DusterBuster]

Is Beal still any good? Him potentially coming to the Clippers gives me John Wall vibes

Yeah, this is a great callout. Losing Powell if Beal is coming in is a decent tradeoff. I would say Powell is probably better than Beal at this point - at the very least a little healthier.

This seems pretty likely, Beal seems like a clear fit for the Clippers.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Harden/Beal/CP (at this age) is a disaster defensively. While its a great feel good story, you need Dunn/DJJ eating some of those minutes.

Agreed defensively it’s bad with those 3. But Dunn/DJ/Kawhi/Zu/Batum/Lopez are all fantastic defenders. You have to think of it they are swapping Dunn/Powell in starting 5 for say Beal/Collins. A drop off from Dunn, but Collins is a slight improvement.

Another thing to note. James Harden was actually a good defender last year. You won’t believe it without seeing it for yourself. He has his lazy games where he ball watches but he had super active hands on driving players and is still a post up stopper.

Dunn would probably get a lot of PT still. CP3 hopefully will take a very small role

Harden has always be the most elite post defender without being people realizing it. However, that was with the Clippers not really having a PF so he ended up in the paint more often.

Now that the Clippers added Collins, Harden will have to primarily play perimeter defense and he has and always will be horrible there lol.

JVG has his hands full keeping that top 3 defense this year lol. If they can avoid sliding past 10-12 range defense and get a big leap offensively it will probably work out. But let’s be honest anyway. Without really fluky injuries this old team is just what they were last year. A scrappy, competitive 48-52 win treadmill team out in 1st or 2nd round while having max cap space in a year.

[azcatz11]

On the surface this seems like a bad trade for everyone but John Collins.

Money wise:
MIA adds $7.1M salary for the year but gets an expiring and saves money from SLO MO’s 2nd year. Clears $9.6M for 26-27
LAC adds $6M salary, expiring for expiring
UTA drops $13M in salary for the year but adds $9.6M salary to 26-27

I guarantee you, Miami has more going on, too. I love this for them. Powell really fits what they do; efficient scorer who plays defense. Trade Wiggins for Rui and Knecht with someone else taking Vincent or Kleber and Miami is in business.

Pg: Herro / Mitchell
Sg: Powell / Larsson
Sf: Highsmith / JJJ
Pf: Bam / Jovic
C: Ware / Hachimura

You gotta like that.

Or keep Wiggins and have 4 starters who can give you 20 on any given night...

I wouldn’t be surprised if they start pelle and keep norm on the bench to lead the second unit. Norm / Davion / Jovic is a really good second group

[DusterBuster]

Norm Powell always plays really well but has next to zero trade value.

John Collins puts up empty stats on every team he's no and has next to zero impact on games, so his value is always historically low.

So essentially, Norm Powell was only worth a couple filler expiring and a 2nd rounder... again (as he was when he was packaged with Covington to go from Portland to LAC originally), even after a near AS caliber season.

Great deal for Miami. Clippers did a "need" trade vs pure talent, I don't see it working out well for them.

It's whatever for the Jazz. Moved a useless player and got a second rounder for their troubles.

Empty stats or not.. clippers BADLY lacked rebounding, athleticism in the paint and size in recent years. When Zu sits.. the team gives up millions of offensive rebounds, failed box outs, put backs etc. I realize Collins isn’t Rodman but I think people aren’t understanding how much adding a starting PF and backup center will do.

They went from one of the weakest big man rotations in the NBA to a top 5 one.

We'll see... stats don't tell the whole story with Collins, but as the previous poster mentioned, if Beal is bought out and signs with the Clippers, this deal makes sense.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Just heard it on NoDunks. Good get for Miami, they didn't have to give up squat.

Except the right to overpay a good scorer and shooter but generally one dimensional player, who'll be 33 when the next playoffs come around

Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

Or they could be playing a game of hunger games between herro and Powell to get that next contract.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Norm Powell always plays really well but has next to zero trade value.

John Collins puts up empty stats on every team he's no and has next to zero impact on games, so his value is always historically low.

So essentially, Norm Powell was only worth a couple filler expiring and a 2nd rounder... again (as he was when he was packaged with Covington to go from Portland to LAC originally), even after a near AS caliber season.

Great deal for Miami. Clippers did a "need" trade vs pure talent, I don't see it working out well for them.

It's whatever for the Jazz. Moved a useless player and got a second rounder for their troubles.

Empty stats or not.. clippers BADLY lacked rebounding, athleticism in the paint and size in recent years. When Zu sits.. the team gives up millions of offensive rebounds, failed box outs, put backs etc. I realize Collins isn’t Rodman but I think people aren’t understanding how much adding a starting PF and backup center will do.

They went from one of the weakest big man rotations in the NBA to a top 5 one.

We'll see... stats don't tell the whole story with Collins, but as the previous poster mentioned, if Beal is bought out and signs with the Clippers, this deal makes sense.

Hope they don’t end up with another KPJ, Wall or Ibaka lol. Where these guys were coming from either crap teams or diminished roles and then fell off hard for a good team.

[DusterBuster]

Empty stats or not.. clippers BADLY lacked rebounding, athleticism in the paint and size in recent years. When Zu sits.. the team gives up millions of offensive rebounds, failed box outs, put backs etc. I realize Collins isn’t Rodman but I think people aren’t understanding how much adding a starting PF and backup center will do.

They went from one of the weakest big man rotations in the NBA to a top 5 one.

We'll see... stats don't tell the whole story with Collins, but as the previous poster mentioned, if Beal is bought out and signs with the Clippers, this deal makes sense.

Hope they don’t end up with another KPJ, Wall or Ibaka lol. Where these guys were coming from either crap teams or diminished roles and then fell off hard for a good team.

If I could put money on it, I would. I suspect he's gonna be like 14 and 6 or 7 type of stat line for the Clippers and piss-poor defense.

[kg01]

Danny Ainge turned Collin Sexton, Jordan Clarkson and John Collins into:

- Jusuf Nurkic
- Kyle Anderson
- Kevin Love

Ainge broke up a 60 win team in the west to do what exactly? He should have went all in to upgrade their previous Mitchell/Gobert roster than do whatever the hell is happening in Utah right now. They are 2 tanks away from being 2 tanks away in terms of relevancy lol

Jazz fans don't seem too miffed over it. This could end up being a 7+ year rebuild.

It's crazy. I mean, Jazz fans aren't dumb. But it's starting to look and feel like they've been taken advantage of by a snake oil salesman trying to gift his son a GM job.

[mg]

Ainge broke up a 60 win team in the west to do what exactly? He should have went all in to upgrade their previous Mitchell/Gobert roster than do whatever the hell is happening in Utah right now. They are 2 tanks away from being 2 tanks away in terms of relevancy lol

Jazz fans don't seem too miffed over it. This could end up being a 7+ year rebuild.

It's crazy. I mean, Jazz fans aren't dumb. But it's starting to look and feel like they've been taken advantage of by a snake oil salesman trying to gift his son a GM job.

Jazz actually got fined $100k for sitting out guys last season. Karma bit them by falling down to the worst possible pick in the lottery. Now they can "organically" tank by giving their low ceiling youngsters plenty of shots.

Either it will work with them getting a top 3 pick next year or fail with them completely whiffing with the lottery balls again, which is statistically the more likely outcome with the flattened odds. They should at the very least keep their '26 FRP which is only top 8 protected.

[BigDan245]

Utah is a joke

[MTJazzv3]

Danny Ainge turned Collin Sexton, Jordan Clarkson and John Collins into:

- Jusuf Nurkic
- Kyle Anderson
- Kevin Love

Ainge broke up a 60 win team in the west to do what exactly? He should have went all in to upgrade their previous Mitchell/Gobert roster than do whatever the hell is happening in Utah right now. They are 2 tanks away from being 2 tanks away in terms of relevancy lol

Jazz fans don't seem too miffed over it. This could end up being a 7+ year rebuild.

Jazz saved about 8 mill. Most of us wanted Clarkson, Sexton and Collins to go to a competitive team trying to win for their sakes (all great human beings and good role playing ballers atrophying in Utah). Yeah, plenty of us are miffed with Danny. And yes, their is nothing but hopium on the horizon for a once proud franchise. I know that no one watched Collins last year but he totally redeemed himself as a decent baller - I like this for the Clips even though I can't tolerate any LA team lol.