Trades and Transactions 2025 IV

[Polk377]

If I told you 2 years ago after the Knicks won 47 games that they would trade all their youth and draft picks they had available to trade at that time along with a few core pieces to win 4 more games you wouldn't question some of the decisions this front office has made? Their assets management has been highly questionable especially for a roster that hasn't been a perfect fit together.

The Mikal deal seems like another poor use of assets. They could have pivoted to another player or waited for the price to come down. If Mikal came back to the Nets with that same broken re-worked jumper and the same early season struggle he had with the Knicks I can't imagine anyone would have come close to giving the amount of value the Knicks gave up for him.

There are only a few opportunities to get something done for a piece that you feel checks your boxes. Mikal is still in his prime, wasn't extended yet so the cap figure worked, didn't have to trade a rotation piece for him, fit next to JB and OG, plays every game and heavy minutes. Who were they going to wait on and who would they have to have given up from the current rotation to make the salaries work and of comparable value? Think about it and 90% is just fantasy.

I would have been ok with the move if it was the final piece to a championship contender but they made that move and then a week later they didn't have a healthy rotational center on the roster. They eventually traded for KAT months later but then they were left with no depth, limited financial flexibility and not many avenues to address the holes in the roster.

I have no problem with the player Mikal is. I think he was a great piece to add at his salary and age but it still doesn't justify the price paid imo. We are now competing against teams that are younger than the Knicks with more room for internal improvement and more assets to improve their roster while the Knicks are trying to find bargain pieces to fill major holes.

It's great they kept most of the core together but the core still has holes in it and they still ended up trading DDV and Randle and losing iHart in free agency with Mitch missing most of the year due to injury after the Mikal trade. Brunson, Hart, OG and Deuce were the only core pieces remaining that played most of the season and Brunson and OG may be the only irreplaceable pieces of that core.

As far as other options I prefer Mikal's fit over someone like DeAndre Hunter but if Hunter could have been acquired for Bogey and a couple firsts they could still have 3 firsts, a swap and some 2nds to attach to someone like Hart or Mitch's contract to make another upgrade to the roster. I would have even taken Grimes back for the limited cost the Mavs and Sixers paid for him. We could probably have both those guys for less than it cost to acquire Mikal.

Building a solid core is much harder than putting pieces around it. They gave themselves a 3-4 year window to compete for a championship. Call the season what you want but even without much depth, the team was 6 wins away from a championship. Now they are another year in, added some depth with Clarkson and Yabu plus whoever else they sign with the vet min spot left, another year of grown from the young guys. Playing revisionist history when the team is in a very good place is completely unnecessary and strange.

[Jeff Van Gully]

but he wasn't doing those things consistently with the knicks, or anyone else, until this past silly season.

knicks is where he got the most run and best sustained role.

never understood this argument in the context of this offseason's transactions.

he wasn't exactly given the freedom to thrive until this year. he was pigeon holed into a role, and once he hit a rough patch, the Knicks shipped him out.

they literally Grimes, who was untouchable in the Donovan Mitchell trade talks just a year earlier, to re-acquire Alec Burks, who the Knicks had just traded away assets to get rid of, and a really old Bogy

sucks that Knicks didn't really give Grimes a longer leash to play thru his struggles, esp. considering the upside was evident. Obi (never should have been the pick, but that's another story) was also an organizational failure.

also, this board was pretty bummed by that Grimes trade, no?

Grimes is probably part of the reason Thibs was fired. The way he handled the bench was atrocious. His dog house BS/Short leash/horrible minutes was wasting talent and money while hurting trade value.

The FO took a 21 win team to near top of the Eastern conference in 1 off season. 4 years later we are an ECF team. For all of this mismanagement of assets I would think they did an amazing job.

never change, JB.

i'm trying to help keep this grimes conversation in the scope of trades and transactions. you want to talk thibs more.

bench? grimes was mostly a starter. never a victim of short minutes, even when he was a reserve. man started 90 of his 162 with us, including rookie season and injury recovery periods. are you talking about grimes there or just thibs? if the latter... you know the rest.

and you ran face first into maybe the one unequivocally positive thibs-driven season while trying to uplift the FO against him, his second COY with a terrible roster getting home court advantage. one could easily argue the best thing the FO did for that season's team was get an elite coach.

coming back firmly to trades and transactions, the FO had us trying to rely on walker and fournier the next season. not blaming them for the idea. i was excited about it given our situation. but that was their contribution to improvement at that time. and that's grimes' rookie season in which he was still a rotation player from jump.

amen for brunson the next offseason (and a slew of great roster improvement transactions from that point). who was brunson's starting backcourt mate playing 30 minutes a night?

following season grimes retains that starting over donte, who i recall had a lot of support for being a starter from onset and eventually overtook the role. but... grimes retained his opportunity to maintain his transactional value.

[Ravenxvirall]

If Mikel wants the max we HAVE to trade him. He is not a Max player ata all. Great role player good teammate but not close to a max guy. Giving our war chest up for him was a serious mistake, signing him to a max deal would be a even bigger blunder.

Not a mistake at all to trade for Bridges. Knicks got their #3 scorer who plays defense and plays every game. Thibs system did Mikal no favors in the offense. He is a motion scorer not a spot up corner 3 taker. Second year with Mike Brown's motion system will do wonders for him. Mikal still had 18-3-4 on 50/35/81 splits. It wasn't a terrible season at all. They are not trading him.

To be clear I wasn’t saying Mikal is a bad player at all, I just don’t think he’s a max guy. I do think he’s a very valuable piece and his defense was huge in the playoffs. It’s not like I hate the guy lol I’m just not sure if he’s max money worthy.

[Jalen Bluntson]

he wasn't exactly given the freedom to thrive until this year. he was pigeon holed into a role, and once he hit a rough patch, the Knicks shipped him out.

they literally Grimes, who was untouchable in the Donovan Mitchell trade talks just a year earlier, to re-acquire Alec Burks, who the Knicks had just traded away assets to get rid of, and a really old Bogy

sucks that Knicks didn't really give Grimes a longer leash to play thru his struggles, esp. considering the upside was evident. Obi (never should have been the pick, but that's another story) was also an organizational failure.

also, this board was pretty bummed by that Grimes trade, no?

Grimes is probably part of the reason Thibs was fired. The way he handled the bench was atrocious. His dog house BS/Short leash/horrible minutes was wasting talent and money while hurting trade value.

The FO took a 21 win team to near top of the Eastern conference in 1 off season. 4 years later we are an ECF team. For all of this mismanagement of assets I would think they did an amazing job.

never change, JB.

i'm trying to help keep this grimes conversation in the scope of trades and transactions. you want to talk thibs more.

bench? grimes was mostly a starter. never a victim of short minutes, even when he was a reserve. man started 90 of his 162 with us, including rookie season and injury recovery periods. are you talking about grimes there or just thibs? if the latter... you know the rest.

and you ran face first into maybe the one unequivocally positive thibs-driven season while trying to uplift the FO against him, his second COY with a terrible roster getting home court advantage. one could easily argue the best thing the FO did for that season's team was get an elite coach.

coming back firmly to trades and transactions, the FO had us trying to rely on walker and fournier the next season. not blaming them for the idea. i was excited about it given our situation. but that was their contribution to improvement at that time. and that's grimes' rookie season in which he was still a rotation player from jump.

amen for brunson the next offseason (and a slew of great roster improvement transactions from that point). who was brunson's starting backcourt mate playing 30 minutes a night?

following season grimes retains that starting over donte, who i recall had a lot of support for being a starter from onset and eventually overtook the role. but... grimes retained his opportunity to maintain his transactional value.

I don't know why you are talking about anything other than the transaction Grimes was involved in in his final season here. That's when he was replaced in the starting lineup and subsequently shipped out for garbage. He wanted out didn't he? I recall he waa disappointed at some point. At the HC. Is that not relevant?

As for the season we had, the FO hired Thibs too. They brought in talent and the team turned around immediately. Did Thibs coach well that season? Yes. I have never said he didn't. My conversation was about the FO and not attacking the HC. YOU took the conversation there.

They had a disappointment in year two from top to bottom. Since then it has been all uphill trajectory. Pretty amazing job IMO considering the 16 different HC/GM combinations results the prior 20 years. Which was the context I was responding too. The mismanagement of assets/trades/transactions have turned the team into a finals contender.

Why are you yelling at me JVG!! So mean!!

[stuporman]

If I told you 2 years ago after the Knicks won 47 games that they would trade all their youth and draft picks they had available to trade at that time along with a few core pieces to win 4 more games you wouldn't question some of the decisions this front office has made? Their assets management has been highly questionable especially for a roster that hasn't been a perfect fit together.

The Mikal deal seems like another poor use of assets. They could have pivoted to another player or waited for the price to come down. If Mikal came back to the Nets with that same broken re-worked jumper and the same early season struggle he had with the Knicks I can't imagine anyone would have come close to giving the amount of value the Knicks gave up for him.

I disagree. Look at what top tier guards have been going for:
This year: Des Bane has never played a full season in his career and he went for 4 firsts and KCP.
Last year: De'Aaron Fox went for 4 firsts and 3 seconds. He shot 27% from 3 for the Spurs after the trade. Are they complaining?
And the year before an aging Harden still went for 3 firsts, 3 seconds, and 2 swaps

We didn't know Bridges would have an off-year. And by the way, he still shot 42.3% from the corner which placed him in the top 50 in the league. 5 firsts and salary filler is expensive, but that's the market. I get that you aren't happy with him, but when a chance to land good talent comes around and you are flirting with the 2nd apron, you need to make the moves you can.

Remember we lost Grimes in order to keep our payroll alive so we'd have the financial means to trade for a guy like Bridges. Had we not made the move for Bridges, we'd have to give up another asset to turn Bogie's contract into someone else making $20M for this season. That would have had to have been Deuce or a pick. So suppose we gave up the Milwaukee first. Then what? Maybe Bridges goes for the same thing that Bane went for? 4 firsts? But we gave up one already so it's still 5 firsts.

You have to take into account everyone on here over rates, the youth

An oldie but goodie...

[Jalen Bluntson]

If Mikel wants the max we HAVE to trade him. He is not a Max player ata all. Great role player good teammate but not close to a max guy. Giving our war chest up for him was a serious mistake, signing him to a max deal would be a even bigger blunder.

Not a mistake at all to trade for Bridges. Knicks got their #3 scorer who plays defense and plays every game. Thibs system did Mikal no favors in the offense. He is a motion scorer not a spot up corner 3 taker. Second year with Mike Brown's motion system will do wonders for him. Mikal still had 18-3-4 on 50/35/81 splits. It wasn't a terrible season at all. They are not trading him.

To be clear I wasn’t saying Mikal is a bad player at all, I just don’t think he’s a max guy. I do think he’s a very valuable piece and his defense was huge in the playoffs. It’s not like I hate the guy lol I’m just not sure if he’s max money worthy.

4/156 is his max. 39mil per. I believe it he waits his contract would be 5/212.5 which is 42 and change? You don't like him at those prices.

[Polk377]

Not a mistake at all to trade for Bridges. Knicks got their #3 scorer who plays defense and plays every game. Thibs system did Mikal no favors in the offense. He is a motion scorer not a spot up corner 3 taker. Second year with Mike Brown's motion system will do wonders for him. Mikal still had 18-3-4 on 50/35/81 splits. It wasn't a terrible season at all. They are not trading him.

To be clear I wasn’t saying Mikal is a bad player at all, I just don’t think he’s a max guy. I do think he’s a very valuable piece and his defense was huge in the playoffs. It’s not like I hate the guy lol I’m just not sure if he’s max money worthy.

4/156 is his max. 39mil per. I believe it he waits his contract would be 5/212.5 which is 42 and change? You don't like him at those prices.

I think he ends up signing for 4 years worth $120-130 mil. No one is giving him the full max in this new cap market unless they think he is a 1A or 1B player which he really hasn't shown to be. He will realize a higher middle of the road contract is his best option or its to the scrap heap in a couple of years.

[JayTWill]

There are only a few opportunities to get something done for a piece that you feel checks your boxes. Mikal is still in his prime, wasn't extended yet so the cap figure worked, didn't have to trade a rotation piece for him, fit next to JB and OG, plays every game and heavy minutes. Who were they going to wait on and who would they have to have given up from the current rotation to make the salaries work and of comparable value? Think about it and 90% is just fantasy.

I would have been ok with the move if it was the final piece to a championship contender but they made that move and then a week later they didn't have a healthy rotational center on the roster. They eventually traded for KAT months later but then they were left with no depth, limited financial flexibility and not many avenues to address the holes in the roster.

I have no problem with the player Mikal is. I think he was a great piece to add at his salary and age but it still doesn't justify the price paid imo. We are now competing against teams that are younger than the Knicks with more room for internal improvement and more assets to improve their roster while the Knicks are trying to find bargain pieces to fill major holes.

It's great they kept most of the core together but the core still has holes in it and they still ended up trading DDV and Randle and losing iHart in free agency with Mitch missing most of the year due to injury after the Mikal trade. Brunson, Hart, OG and Deuce were the only core pieces remaining that played most of the season and Brunson and OG may be the only irreplaceable pieces of that core.

As far as other options I prefer Mikal's fit over someone like DeAndre Hunter but if Hunter could have been acquired for Bogey and a couple firsts they could still have 3 firsts, a swap and some 2nds to attach to someone like Hart or Mitch's contract to make another upgrade to the roster. I would have even taken Grimes back for the limited cost the Mavs and Sixers paid for him. We could probably have both those guys for less than it cost to acquire Mikal.

Building a solid core is much harder than putting pieces around it. They gave themselves a 3-4 year window to compete for a championship. Call the season what you want but even without much depth, the team was 6 wins away from a championship. Now they are another year in, added some depth with Clarkson and Yabu plus whoever else they sign with the vet min spot left, another year of grown from the young guys. Playing revisionist history when the team is in a very good place is completely unnecessary and strange.

I'm not playing revisionist history. You said it was 90% fantasy that the Knicks could have made another move to improve the roster so I gave you 2 simple examples of 2 players that were traded for less in total than Mikal that could have improved the roster without moving the core pieces you wanted to retain.

We built a core that didn't play that well on the court together last year from January on. I still question how good of a place the team is in because they were just as close to losing in the first round as they were to making it to the finals. I'm not just looking at the end result. I'm looking at the way the team played on the court and there are still a lot of question marks surrounding their performance. If the Knicks lost to the Pacers in the 1st round it would still be the same team with the same strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not as high on the additions the team made this off-season as some and while I remain hopeful for the young guys we saw such a limited amount of them last year it almost felt like a wasted year of development and I don't know what to expect from them this year.

Obviously you think more highly of the team currently than I do. I still have concerns about the defense, wing depth and the quality of on-ball creation. I'm hoping another year of chemistry building and possibly a better offensive system can alleviate some of those concerns.

[stuporman]

If you let MB go into the final year of his contract he has diminished value with risk of leaving and if you let him walk you gave away 5 picks with nothing to show for it...you think the FO is doing that?

The Knicks are resigning him and then they still have the player under contract, one who doesn't miss games and is a desirable commodity, even if someone wants to say it's an inflated number.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[DaGawd]

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guy needs to touch grass

[BKlutch]

If I told you 2 years ago after the Knicks won 47 games that they would trade all their youth and draft picks they had available to trade at that time along with a few core pieces to win 4 more games you wouldn't question some of the decisions this front office has made? Their assets management has been highly questionable especially for a roster that hasn't been a perfect fit together.

The Mikal deal seems like another poor use of assets. They could have pivoted to another player or waited for the price to come down. If Mikal came back to the Nets with that same broken re-worked jumper and the same early season struggle he had with the Knicks I can't imagine anyone would have come close to giving the amount of value the Knicks gave up for him.

I disagree. Look at what top tier guards have been going for:
This year: Des Bane has never played a full season in his career and he went for 4 firsts and KCP.
Last year: De'Aaron Fox went for 4 firsts and 3 seconds. He shot 27% from 3 for the Spurs after the trade. Are they complaining?
And the year before an aging Harden still went for 3 firsts, 3 seconds, and 2 swaps

We didn't know Bridges would have an off-year. And by the way, he still shot 42.3% from the corner which placed him in the top 50 in the league. 5 firsts and salary filler is expensive, but that's the market. I get that you aren't happy with him, but when a chance to land good talent comes around and you are flirting with the 2nd apron, you need to make the moves you can.

Remember we lost Grimes in order to keep our payroll alive so we'd have the financial means to trade for a guy like Bridges. Had we not made the move for Bridges, we'd have to give up another asset to turn Bogie's contract into someone else making $20M for this season. That would have had to have been Deuce or a pick. So suppose we gave up the Milwaukee first. Then what? Maybe Bridges goes for the same thing that Bane went for? 4 firsts? But we gave up one already so it's still 5 firsts.

You have to take into account everyone on here over rates, the youth

Frankie Likina da gawd!

[Jeff Van Gully]

Grimes is probably part of the reason Thibs was fired. The way he handled the bench was atrocious. His dog house BS/Short leash/horrible minutes was wasting talent and money while hurting trade value.

The FO took a 21 win team to near top of the Eastern conference in 1 off season. 4 years later we are an ECF team. For all of this mismanagement of assets I would think they did an amazing job.

never change, JB.

i'm trying to help keep this grimes conversation in the scope of trades and transactions. you want to talk thibs more.

bench? grimes was mostly a starter. never a victim of short minutes, even when he was a reserve. man started 90 of his 162 with us, including rookie season and injury recovery periods. are you talking about grimes there or just thibs? if the latter... you know the rest.

and you ran face first into maybe the one unequivocally positive thibs-driven season while trying to uplift the FO against him, his second COY with a terrible roster getting home court advantage. one could easily argue the best thing the FO did for that season's team was get an elite coach.

coming back firmly to trades and transactions, the FO had us trying to rely on walker and fournier the next season. not blaming them for the idea. i was excited about it given our situation. but that was their contribution to improvement at that time. and that's grimes' rookie season in which he was still a rotation player from jump.

amen for brunson the next offseason (and a slew of great roster improvement transactions from that point). who was brunson's starting backcourt mate playing 30 minutes a night?

following season grimes retains that starting over donte, who i recall had a lot of support for being a starter from onset and eventually overtook the role. but... grimes retained his opportunity to maintain his transactional value.

I don't know why you are talking about anything other than the transaction Grimes was involved in in his final season here. That's when he was replaced in the starting lineup and subsequently shipped out for garbage. He wanted out didn't he? I recall he waa disappointed at some point. At the HC. Is that not relevant?

As for the season we had, the FO hired Thibs too. They brought in talent and the team turned around immediately. Did Thibs coach well that season? Yes. I have never said he didn't. My conversation was about the FO and not attacking the HC. YOU took the conversation there.

They had a disappointment in year two from top to bottom. Since then it has been all uphill trajectory. Pretty amazing job IMO considering the 16 different HC/GM combinations results the prior 20 years. Which was the context I was responding too. The mismanagement of assets/trades/transactions have turned the team into a finals contender.

Why are you yelling at me JVG!! So mean!!

opposite of yelling. all lowercase. no exclamations. just two guys talking ball and transactions.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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guy needs to touch grass

they mean lowball, right? i mean, i hope.

[Ravenxvirall]

Not a mistake at all to trade for Bridges. Knicks got their #3 scorer who plays defense and plays every game. Thibs system did Mikal no favors in the offense. He is a motion scorer not a spot up corner 3 taker. Second year with Mike Brown's motion system will do wonders for him. Mikal still had 18-3-4 on 50/35/81 splits. It wasn't a terrible season at all. They are not trading him.

To be clear I wasn’t saying Mikal is a bad player at all, I just don’t think he’s a max guy. I do think he’s a very valuable piece and his defense was huge in the playoffs. It’s not like I hate the guy lol I’m just not sure if he’s max money worthy.

4/156 is his max. 39mil per. I believe it he waits his contract would be 5/212.5 which is 42 and change? You don't like him at those prices.

Man that is a lot of cheddar, I’m struggling here because I think he will be used better under mike brown lmao I’m flip flopping back and forth in my brain right now.

[R-DAWG]

There are only a few opportunities to get something done for a piece that you feel checks your boxes. Mikal is still in his prime, wasn't extended yet so the cap figure worked, didn't have to trade a rotation piece for him, fit next to JB and OG, plays every game and heavy minutes. Who were they going to wait on and who would they have to have given up from the current rotation to make the salaries work and of comparable value? Think about it and 90% is just fantasy.

I would have been ok with the move if it was the final piece to a championship contender but they made that move and then a week later they didn't have a healthy rotational center on the roster. They eventually traded for KAT months later but then they were left with no depth, limited financial flexibility and not many avenues to address the holes in the roster.

I have no problem with the player Mikal is. I think he was a great piece to add at his salary and age but it still doesn't justify the price paid imo. We are now competing against teams that are younger than the Knicks with more room for internal improvement and more assets to improve their roster while the Knicks are trying to find bargain pieces to fill major holes.

It's great they kept most of the core together but the core still has holes in it and they still ended up trading DDV and Randle and losing iHart in free agency with Mitch missing most of the year due to injury after the Mikal trade. Brunson, Hart, OG and Deuce were the only core pieces remaining that played most of the season and Brunson and OG may be the only irreplaceable pieces of that core.

As far as other options I prefer Mikal's fit over someone like DeAndre Hunter but if Hunter could have been acquired for Bogey and a couple firsts they could still have 3 firsts, a swap and some 2nds to attach to someone like Hart or Mitch's contract to make another upgrade to the roster. I would have even taken Grimes back for the limited cost the Mavs and Sixers paid for him. We could probably have both those guys for less than it cost to acquire Mikal.

Building a solid core is much harder than putting pieces around it. They gave themselves a 3-4 year window to compete for a championship. Call the season what you want but even without much depth, the team was 6 wins away from a championship. Now they are another year in, added some depth with Clarkson and Yabu plus whoever else they sign with the vet min spot left, another year of grown from the young guys. Playing revisionist history when the team is in a very good place is completely unnecessary and strange.

No one hated the Mikal trade more than me, but it's time to move on. We have a top team in the wide open east (sure, aided by injuries). We improved in the margins. And we brought in a new coach who might be a little more flexible with the lineup.

Personally - I still think the team need to break one of Hart, OG, or Mikal into two rotational pieces - a durable big and a replacement wing (ie OG for PJ Washington/Daniel Gafford). But it doesn't seem like that's in the cards this offseason. And I get it. They went all in, got to the confernce finals, and the conference is wide open next year. Now isn't the time to move off this core.

[Jalen Bluntson]

To be clear I wasn’t saying Mikal is a bad player at all, I just don’t think he’s a max guy. I do think he’s a very valuable piece and his defense was huge in the playoffs. It’s not like I hate the guy lol I’m just not sure if he’s max money worthy.

4/156 is his max. 39mil per. I believe it he waits his contract would be 5/212.5 which is 42 and change? You don't like him at those prices.

I think he ends up signing for 4 years worth $120-130 mil. No one is giving him the full max in this new cap market unless they think he is a 1A or 1B player which he really hasn't shown to be. He will realize a higher middle of the road contract is his best option or its to the scrap heap in a couple of years.

Well, if he cares at all about winning in NY with his boys, he would be wise to look for a fair deal here. Whatever that number is has to make some sort of sense for both parties. Cap rules and aprons being what they are, I hope there is a team friendly deal here. If not, he'll be traded.

[BKlutch]

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guy needs to touch grass

they mean lowball, right? i mean, i hope.

When it comes to a guy on Xitter with 135 followers, does it really matter?

[Jalen Bluntson]

never change, JB.

i'm trying to help keep this grimes conversation in the scope of trades and transactions. you want to talk thibs more.

bench? grimes was mostly a starter. never a victim of short minutes, even when he was a reserve. man started 90 of his 162 with us, including rookie season and injury recovery periods. are you talking about grimes there or just thibs? if the latter... you know the rest.

and you ran face first into maybe the one unequivocally positive thibs-driven season while trying to uplift the FO against him, his second COY with a terrible roster getting home court advantage. one could easily argue the best thing the FO did for that season's team was get an elite coach.

coming back firmly to trades and transactions, the FO had us trying to rely on walker and fournier the next season. not blaming them for the idea. i was excited about it given our situation. but that was their contribution to improvement at that time. and that's grimes' rookie season in which he was still a rotation player from jump.

amen for brunson the next offseason (and a slew of great roster improvement transactions from that point). who was brunson's starting backcourt mate playing 30 minutes a night?

following season grimes retains that starting over donte, who i recall had a lot of support for being a starter from onset and eventually overtook the role. but... grimes retained his opportunity to maintain his transactional value.

I don't know why you are talking about anything other than the transaction Grimes was involved in in his final season here. That's when he was replaced in the starting lineup and subsequently shipped out for garbage. He wanted out didn't he? I recall he waa disappointed at some point. At the HC. Is that not relevant?

As for the season we had, the FO hired Thibs too. They brought in talent and the team turned around immediately. Did Thibs coach well that season? Yes. I have never said he didn't. My conversation was about the FO and not attacking the HC. YOU took the conversation there.

They had a disappointment in year two from top to bottom. Since then it has been all uphill trajectory. Pretty amazing job IMO considering the 16 different HC/GM combinations results the prior 20 years. Which was the context I was responding too. The mismanagement of assets/trades/transactions have turned the team into a finals contender.

Why are you yelling at me JVG!! So mean!!

opposite of yelling. all lowercase. no exclamations. just two guys talking ball and transactions.

Opposite of being serious. Just two guys talking and enjoying the day.

I want a backup PG!! Who's the best vet mini target out there? Anyone willing to sign and stash Lillard?

[spree2kawhi]

So why couldn’t Utah get more for a talented player on an expiring contract?