Shams: Kings Trade Jonas Valunciunas to the Nuggets for Dario Saric; *UPDATE* - Trade is Now Official

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Nuggets front office needs to get this problem solved asap

[BlacJacMac]

Because he didn't know it was an option. Panathinaikos had not offered him a contract yet

He could have terminated his nba contract and seek new one in Europe.
So he didn't do it because he wanted to be in Europe, closer to family out of US, but because he got more guaranteed money from Panathinaikos.
I see

He can’t just terminate his contract unless there are provisions in it such as a player option.

I'm not so sure. From Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 79), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap17.htm#Q61

[Mirotic12]

Players, doesn’t matter where they come from, can withdraw from the draft. NBA can negotiate with players in Europe yea but they can’t sign them unless either they are a free agent, have an out clause or released from their contract by the team.

The NBA can automatically draft any player they want to at their age 22 birth year. Whether they declare for the draft or not, and whether they want to be drafted or not.

It's happened numerous times.

[AleksandarN]

He could have terminated his nba contract and seek new one in Europe.
So he didn't do it because he wanted to be in Europe, closer to family out of US, but because he got more guaranteed money from Panathinaikos.
I see

He can’t just terminate his contract unless there are provisions in it such as a player option.

I'm not so sure. From Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 79), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap17.htm#Q61

Yes but it still doesn’t void the contract. And with the nba the nba contracts has a non complete built in them

[AleksandarN]

Players, doesn’t matter where they come from, can withdraw from the draft. NBA can negotiate with players in Europe yea but they can’t sign them unless either they are a free agent, have an out clause or released from their contract by the team.

The NBA can automatically draft any player they want to at their age 22 birth year. Whether they declare for the draft or not, and whether they want to be drafted or not.

It's happened numerous times.

And you can still withdraw from the draft at age 22 or older

[Mirotic12]

And you can still withdraw from the draft at age 22 or older

Not when you didn't declare for the draft. They didn't declare for the draft, and were drafted without even knowing about it until after they were drafted.

They were already drafted before they could even be made aware of it.

[heatwillbeback]

Nuggets front office needs to get this problem solved asap

If they get Horford I think they let this happen.

If they dont, I see them fighting a bit.

[SpurNani]

Val isn't really a meaningful player anymore. If I were Denver I would let him go and get the MLE.

You'd probably get a very unmotivated guy if you forced the guy to play when he clearly wants to leave and be close to his family

[KGtabake]

Players, doesn’t matter where they come from, can withdraw from the draft. NBA can negotiate with players in Europe yea but they can’t sign them unless either they are a free agent, have an out clause or released from their contract by the team.

The NBA can automatically draft any player they want to at their age 22 birth year. Whether they declare for the draft or not, and whether they want to be drafted or not.

It's happened numerous times.

And you can still withdraw from the draft at age 22 or older

It doesn't matter.
You can't choose the team that you want to play for. You will be drafted either you like it or not.
And you'll be lucky locked up from that team.
And when(if) you sign, you can be traded multiple times.
I like the salary cap that is being used but the trade thing needs a reshape.

[bledredwine]

Valsiuna wall sauce?

as Chuck says.

[AleksandarN]

And you can still withdraw from the draft at age 22 or older

Not when you didn't declare for the draft. They didn't declare for the draft, and were drafted without even knowing about it until after they were drafted.

They were already drafted before they could even be made aware of it.

If they dont know then they have poor management. Even you know they are automatically eligible for the draft. That’s. Terrible management

[AleksandarN]

The NBA can automatically draft any player they want to at their age 22 birth year. Whether they declare for the draft or not, and whether they want to be drafted or not.

It's happened numerous times.

And you can still withdraw from the draft at age 22 or older

It doesn't matter.
You can't choose the team that you want to play for. You will be drafted either you like it or not.
And you'll be lucky locked up from that team.
And when(if) you sign, you can be traded multiple times.
I like the salary cap that is being used but the trade thing needs a reshape.

You have an option to ask for a no trade clause if you want when you sign a contract. NBA is a league that has rules. Same as all leagues around the world. If want to play in said league you have to follow the rules.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Please, tell us examples from the past which show that the NBA teams actually respect the European teams and never approach players within contract I'll be waiting.

European players have an NBA out clause set at X dollars depending on how many years are left.

Nope. Not all of them. It depends on the contract they have signed. Some of them have an NBA out clause while others don't have such a clause.

There are absolutely out clauses, or some type of term for it. It may not be going to NBA strictly, but leaving like Jonas is doing right now? What’s stopping a player that’s playing in Spain and signs a contract in Greece while still in contract with a Spanish team?

The team getting the players has to pay a transfer fee (if the players are worth it). If it’s a contract buyout, the team pays a portion of the buyout they deem reasonable and the player contributes the rest of the buyout amount. Another way to receive a player’s service is loan system where you can rent a player for x amount of time. So, either Jonas or Panathinaikos better cough up some money to pay Denver back.

However you slice it, there’s no “I don’t want to be here, so I’m going to sign a contract with another team right now.” If Real Madrid took nearly two years to sign Kylian Mbappe (because he AGREED to a contract with PSG in France even though he doesn’t want to be there anymore), then maybe Jonas Valanciunas can wait out and play his final year in Denver.

[Wallace_Wallace]

European players have an NBA out clause set at X dollars depending on how many years are left.

Nope. Not all of them. It depends on the contract they have signed. Some of them have an NBA out clause while others don't have such a clause.

I doubt if even 1 out of 10 contracts in Europe have an NBA out clause. The vast majority of players in Europe that go to the NBA are able to talk and negotiate with NBA teams anytime they want and there is nothing a European team can do about it and they get no compensation for it.

You think a player can just walk and play for any team WHILE IN CONTRACT? These aren’t W-2 employees that work for Walmart and they can just walk away whenever they feel unhappy. Take this for example:
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/1131800/campazzo-signing-a-two-year-deal-with-denver-real-madrid-to-get-6-million-buyout/

In order for Denver to sign Facundo Campazzo, the Nuggets had to pay 750k (the max CBA limit) and the rest had to paid by Campazzo himself; the amount of the buyout is 6 millions dollars. Now it’s the other way around, Panathinaikos and Jonas better work out a deal to pay 10 million USD to Denver.

Another example:
Barcelona had to pay a fee (3.7 million Euros) in order to acquire Ricky Rubio from his prior team, Joventut Badalona. Then when he got drafted, the Wolves had to pay 500K (max CBA limit for buyout at the time) + rest from Rubio to Barca in order to play in Minnesota.

How about Juan Carlos Navarro (10 million buyout with Barca in order play in Memphis)?
https://www.fiba.basketball/en/news/esp-navarro-considers-nba-move

Your turn, how about you list some foreign players that NBA teams talk to and was able to sign outright without a transfer/buyout fee while they were in contract?

Bottom line, whether you’re referring to an NBA team , or a powerhouse in Europe, there’s a price to pay if you want to acquire players

[Nuntius]

European players have an NBA out clause set at X dollars depending on how many years are left.

Nope. Not all of them. It depends on the contract they have signed. Some of them have an NBA out clause while others don't have such a clause.

There are absolutely out clauses, or some type of term for it. It may not be going to NBA strictly, but leaving like Jonas is doing right now? What’s stopping a player that’s playing in Spain and signs a contract in Greece while still in contract with a Spanish team?

The team getting the players has to pay a transfer fee (if the players are worth it). If it’s a contract buyout, the team pays a portion of the buyout they deem reasonable and the player contributes the rest of the buyout amount. Another way to receive a player’s service is loan system where you can rent a player for x amount of time. So, either Jonas or Panathinaikos better cough up some money to pay Denver back.

However you slice it, there’s no “I don’t want to be here, so I’m going to sign a contract with another team right now.” If Real Madrid took nearly two years to sign Kylian Mbappe (because he AGREED to a contract with PSG in France even though he doesn’t want to be there anymore), then maybe Jonas Valanciunas can wait out and play his final year in Denver.

Yeah, I do not think that you understood what I was saying there. For what is worth, I do not think that you understood what Mirotic12 was saying either.

What I said is pretty simple:

Not every contract in Europe (or elsewhere in the world) has an NBA out clause. Some do, of course. An example of it would be Nigel Hayes-Davis who just signed with Phoenix. His contract had an NBA out clause so Hayes-Davis just activated that clause, paid the buyout and the move was made.

But that's not the case with every player. Not every player has that kind of clause. And a player not having an NBA out clause has never stopped an NBA team from pursuing them.

Mirotic12 is expanding that point further by pointing out that a player doesn't have to actually declare for the NBA draft for an NBA team to draft them. They can be drafted against their will.

In general, NBA teams have been using their financial power to ignore rules and pretty much do whatever they want in their pursuit of talent. It's kinda funny to see this work the other way for once

[Nuntius]

Mental gymnastics at a 10 here. You're ignoring the more simpler answer. He just doesn't want to play in Denver. Not that hard to figure out.

He doesn't want to play in the US anymore, period. It has nothing to do with Denver in particular.

So he suddenly decides this immediately after the trade? What a coincidence, huh.

Based on everything we've read so far, he decided that the moment he was offered a contract by a team outside the US.

I will agree with the others that said that your trolling is pretty poor.

[Nuntius]

As expected, Val's agent apparently went rogue without telling the Nuggets what was going on. The tweet is from a Greek basketball reporter.

Zero sympathy from me. Seems like you blew up Denver's free agency, didn't tell them that you were going to talk with the other club and now you just expect Denver to help you out? Yeah, ok.

If Denver knew that Val was going to try to get out of his deal, they probably never set up the trade.

Read on Twitter

So, that's an interesting article. The article lays full blame on Valanciunas' Lithuanian agent. It states that this Lithuanian agent is not actively involved with Val's NBA deals. So, the article is not talking about the agents that can be found on Val's bio on this site (Michael Tellem and Jeff Schwartz). It's talking about some other agent that isn't actually involved with the NBA and perhaps isn't fully aware of the rules. I still do not understand why that agent wasn't in contact with Val's NBA representation.

It definitely sounds like he agent jumped the gun here and that he didn't do his job correctly but I still wouldn't blame the player for his agent's screwup.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Nope. Not all of them. It depends on the contract they have signed. Some of them have an NBA out clause while others don't have such a clause.

There are absolutely out clauses, or some type of term for it. It may not be going to NBA strictly, but leaving like Jonas is doing right now? What’s stopping a player that’s playing in Spain and signs a contract in Greece while still in contract with a Spanish team?

The team getting the players has to pay a transfer fee (if the players are worth it). If it’s a contract buyout, the team pays a portion of the buyout they deem reasonable and the player contributes the rest of the buyout amount. Another way to receive a player’s service is loan system where you can rent a player for x amount of time. So, either Jonas or Panathinaikos better cough up some money to pay Denver back.

However you slice it, there’s no “I don’t want to be here, so I’m going to sign a contract with another team right now.” If Real Madrid took nearly two years to sign Kylian Mbappe (because he AGREED to a contract with PSG in France even though he doesn’t want to be there anymore), then maybe Jonas Valanciunas can wait out and play his final year in Denver.

Yeah, I do not think that you understood what I was saying there. For what is worth, I do not think that you understood what Mirotic12 was saying either.

What I said is pretty simple:

Not every contract in Europe (or elsewhere in the world) has an NBA out clause. Some do, of course. An example of it would be Nigel Hayes-Davis who just signed with Phoenix. His contract had an NBA out clause so Hayes-Davis just activated that clause, paid the buyout and the move was made.

But that's not the case with every player. Not every player has that kind of clause. And a player not having an NBA out clause has never stopped an NBA team from pursuing them.

Mirotic12 is expanding that point further by pointing out that a player doesn't have to actually declare for the NBA draft for an NBA team to draft them. They can be drafted against their will.

In general, NBA teams have been using their financial power to ignore rules and pretty much do whatever they want in their pursuit of talent. It's kinda funny to see this work the other way for once

So you still haven’t provided me any examples. When a player is in contract, what loophole/power move does an NBA team (or any team) uses to get that player outright and his original team gets no compensation? If so, what players were able to do so?

The drafting part sounds irrelevant since Jonas is way beyond that. But if the NBA teams draft players against their will, do they not have freedom to stay in Europe (IE Fran Vazquez-Orlando)? Those players are not forced to report to the NBA correct? So essentially, Orlando in that situation, wasted a lottery pick.

I’m still waiting for your examples instead of your moral high grounds. I gave you Campazzo, Rubio and Juan Carlos Navarro where the NBA teams (and the players themselves) had to pay a buyout fee. What European teams have gotten no payout while their players are still in contract?

Now that I think about it, there’s one way that the original team gets no compensation. That would be……wait for it……when that player’s contract expires! Jonas Valenciunas got one more year, just Kylian Mbappe got one more year last year

[canada_dry]

Off topic Hows rubio been over in spain? Can anyone here that follows European hoops give me a bit if an update on him?

Rubio tried to make a comeback with Barsa two seasons ago. He played with them in Spain's ACB league and in the EuroLeague.

He was pretty much obviously already an ex player. He was extremely slow and had zero athleticism. He was probably the slowest and least athletic guard in the EuroLeague.

It was very clear that he could no longer play at that level.

Then he played with Spain's national team at the qualifiers for the FIBA EuroBasket, which is a much lower level than the EuroLeague. It's also a clearly lower level than the secondary tier European club leagues like the EuroCup and the FIBA Basketball Champions League.

Even at that level, he pretty much struggled and was fairly useless for the most part.

Barsa released him after the season.

Then there were some reports that Joventut Badalona wanted to sign him for this last season that just ended. They play in the ACB and in second level European leagues like the EuroCup / FIBA BCL.

But ultimately, that never happened, and he didn't play at all last season. Probably because I think he most likely realized that he's not capable of being a contributing player anymore. At least not if he's the same way he was when he made that Barsa comeback attempt.

There hasn't been any mention in European sports media of him signing with any team so far this offseason. So he most likely retired and ended his playing career at 33.

Thanks for that. That sucks.

A bit surprising too because he was still pretty good on the cavs and viewed as an asset when he retired in the NBA. Strange how he aged that quickly.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Nuntius]

So you still haven’t provided me any examples. When a player is in contract, what loophole/power move does an NBA team (or any team) uses to get that player outright and his original team gets no compensation? If so, what players were able to do so?

And, once again, you're proving that you didn't quite understand my point. I will state my point once again:

Not every player in Europe (or elsewhere in the world) has an NBA out clause.

Here. That's my point. That's what I said. Do we agree on that or not?

The drafting part sounds irrelevant since Jonas is way beyond that. But if the NBA teams draft players against their will, do they not have freedom to stay in Europe (IE Fran Vazquez-Orlando)? Those players are not forced to report to the NBA correct? So essentially, Orlando in that situation, wasted a lottery pick.

No, they aren't forced to report to the NBA. They can stay in Europe if they want. But if they ever want to go to the NBA then they have to go to the team that picked them against their will.