Shams: Kings Trade Jonas Valunciunas to the Nuggets for Dario Saric; *UPDATE* - Trade is Now Official

[nomansland]

1. A true contender Nuggets get (or dont) good backup for Jokic which they were unable to do in half a decade. Thats huge, especially as they almost have no options now beside Val; thats why they dont want to let him go now;
2. JV is not 4th big at this point of his career. His PER numbers this last season were really close to his best years, with way improved passing and understanding of playing defence. Yeah he is slower but he has always been slowest guy on the court.
3. The situation with Panathinaikos is unique and for many much more interesting than another aging ex superstar trade or extensions to Max players which were gonna happen anyway.

Youre welcome.

Good reasons.

Beyond that, this has interesting implications for how the NBA and international leagues interact in the future. You can bet that Adam Silver and the NBA governors are watching how this plays out with keen interest.

In the next CBA, they could raise the max buyout limit an NBA team can contribute; this is a rule the owners nor the players have much care. The current amount is 750k, I think the NBA wouldn't mind raising it to 2-3 million (or even more since now the cap is so ridiculously high). This change will have a seismic impact in foreign leagues:
1. Players themselves don't have to cough up as much money in buyout situation, thus making above average to top players wanting to try their luck in the NBA.
2. Promote player movement in foreign leagues.
3. Players have more say in their contracts. It may enable them to get pay more, thus making the buyout/transfer fees higher.

If Euroleagues, specifically Panathinaikos, wants to pull this, I look for NBA to counter. Ultimately, I think more players from foreign countries want to play in the NBA than the other way around. So raising the limit will attract more foreign talents into the league.

Interesting.

FIBA needs to tread lightly here because, like you said, the NBA has the advantage when it comes to attracting talent.

[remiga007]

So now greek media claims that Jonas' agent let Panathinaikos know that Nuggets will surely release Jonas, WITHOUT even having spoken with Nuggets in advance.
If true, bad look for the agent to say the least.
Its in Lithuanian in main media portal, but you may play with translator to EN if you want more details : https://www.delfi.lt/krepsinis/naujienos/valanciuno-dramoje-graiku-kaltinimai-zaidejo-agentui-panathinaikos-liko-sokiruota-120124262

[LuDux1]

So now greek media claims that Jonas' agent let Panathinaikos know that Nuggets will surely release Jonas, WITHOUT even having spoken with Nuggets in advance.
If true, bad look for the agent to say the least.
Its in Lithuanian in main media portal, but you may play with translator to EN if you want more details : https://www.delfi.lt/krepsinis/naujienos/valanciuno-dramoje-graiku-kaltinimai-zaidejo-agentui-panathinaikos-liko-sokiruota-120124262

"It would be absurd and unprofessional for Panathinaikos to start process with player who has guaranteed contract with NBA team" What about starting process based just or verbal assurance?

[sackings916]

This is a very curious thread— since it just involves a scrub who really won’t move the needle for an NBA team


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. I can’t figure out how or why this thread is 30 pages. He’s a fringe 3rd big/4th big at this point in his career.

1. A true contender Nuggets get (or dont) good backup for Jokic which they were unable to do in half a decade. Thats huge, especially as they almost have no options now beside Val; thats why they dont want to let him go now;
2. JV is not 4th big at this point of his career. His PER numbers this last season were really close to his best years, with way improved passing and understanding of playing defence. Yeah he is slower but he has always been slowest guy on the court.
3. The situation with Panathinaikos is unique and for many much more interesting than another aging ex superstar trade or extensions to Max players which were gonna happen anyway.

Youre welcome.

JV is borderline unplayable because he’s a defensive liability. He gets ran off the floor and picked on in the pick and roll. Offensively and on the boards he’s a quality backup center, but when you weigh in how much he hurts you defensively he’s probably a fringe 3rd/4th big.

[Mirotic12]

Yup, I admit I researched the wrong topic regarding the Kendrick Nunn situation (thought you were referring to his time period transitioning from the NBA to Europe). If the NBA does want to acquire Kendrick Nunn from Greece, without an out clause, I’m sure the transfer fee would be hefty and the teams (plus the player) have to agree to an amount that seem fitting to all sides. If Panathinaikos doesn’t want to even entertain the idea, then unfortunately the NBA would have to wait until his contract expires.

Same with Denver, if they don’t want to entertain the idea of a buyout, then it is what it is. Be a professional and show up to work.

The NBA only contribute 750k to a buyout with the rest paid by the players in a buyout situation (if the team is willing to negotiate), the NBA teams cannot sign foreign players without compensation to the original team. This was one of the premises as well, NBA overpowers the euro leagues and often the team is left without compensation. This sounds wrong on surface, but the NBA, the player and the foreign team fulfill the buyout conditions every time.

Very few contracts in Europe have NBA out clauses. The teams are against them and rarely agree to them. Also, very few contracts in Europe have buyout clauses. It's actually pretty rare, for the reason that players and agents are generally against them and don't want them.

Most of the contracts in Europe just have a set amount of money the player is owed if the team cuts them. And often it's nothing. If it's a EuroLeague contract, it might be a payoff fee of €100K euros net, €200K euros net, €500K euros ney, something like that maybe, or might be nothing. But even in those cases it's not a buyout like in the NBA. It's just how much money is owed at a set time if the player is cut for contracts that are nit fully guaranteed.

And then most contracts also have a set amount of money the player is owed if the player wants to be released. Usually that is just whatever the player was already owed.

If the European contract is fully guaranteed, like a lot of EuroLeague contracts are, then the player just gets the money owed in the remaining contract. The owed salary can then be split by the new team and the old team, or paid in full by the new team, or if not, the previous team still has to pay it.

That's what happened when Mirotic left Barsa and signed with Milan. Barsa still had to pay his entire salary, even though he was no longer on the team. And then on top of that, he got paid also by Milan. But there was no transfer fee, no buyout, no compensation for Barsa. Nothing like that.

As far as transfer fees, they are rarely included in European contracts either. Sometimes EuroLeague teams do get a transfer fee from other EuroLeague teams, but it's always negotiated and not something in the contract. That also happens quite rarely and it pretty much never happens with NBA teams being involved. I don't recall any European team ever getting a transfer fee from an NBA team. I don't think that's ever happened.

Like probably 95+% of the time when NBA teams negotiate with players under contract in Europe, there is no out clause nor buyout, nor transfer fee, and the European team gets no compensation.

This has actually been a major topic of complaints from European teams to FIBA for a long time. But FIBA has for years failed to do anything about it.

It's interesting though that recently, since the NBA announced its plans for NBA Europe, working along with FIBA, EuroLeague teams have started talking about placing protection rules on their players, and preventing the NBA from doing that.

I don't know if actually going after NBA players under contract could be a part of that new way of thinking, but it's kind of an interesting timing coincidence.

[Mirotic12]

This is a very curious thread— since it just involves a scrub who really won’t move the needle for an NBA team

Val isn't a scrub, get real

and yes, in a vacuum he def doesn't move the needle but for Denver - he does

A reminder that this is a team that took the juggernaut OKC to 7 games with their second option playing horrendously, all with a rookie HC who got the gig a week before the playoffs

They don't need much to get over the hump and backup C has been for years, their most mind-boggling and glaring hole

Based on a lot of durden_tyler's posts on the forums, he considers all players not in the NBA to be scrubs. That includes any NBA player that is said to be considering leaving the NBA.

If Michael Jordan had at some point played in another league, he would have immediately became a "scrub" according to this logic.

[AleksandarN]

Good reasons.

Beyond that, this has interesting implications for how the NBA and international leagues interact in the future. You can bet that Adam Silver and the NBA governors are watching how this plays out with keen interest.

In the next CBA, they could raise the max buyout limit an NBA team can contribute; this is a rule the owners nor the players have much care. The current amount is 750k, I think the NBA wouldn't mind raising it to 2-3 million (or even more since now the cap is so ridiculously high). This change will have a seismic impact in foreign leagues:
1. Players themselves don't have to cough up as much money in buyout situation, thus making above average to top players wanting to try their luck in the NBA.
2. Promote player movement in foreign leagues.
3. Players have more say in their contracts. It may enable them to get pay more, thus making the buyout/transfer fees higher.

If Euroleagues, specifically Panathinaikos, wants to pull this, I look for NBA to counter. Ultimately, I think more players from foreign countries want to play in the NBA than the other way around. So raising the limit will attract more foreign talents into the league.

Interesting.

FIBA needs to tread lightly here because, like you said, the NBA has the advantage when it comes to attracting talent.

FIBA doesn’t have to tread lightly becuase under FIBA it actually enforces non complete causes.

[AleksandarN]

Yup, I admit I researched the wrong topic regarding the Kendrick Nunn situation (thought you were referring to his time period transitioning from the NBA to Europe). If the NBA does want to acquire Kendrick Nunn from Greece, without an out clause, I’m sure the transfer fee would be hefty and the teams (plus the player) have to agree to an amount that seem fitting to all sides. If Panathinaikos doesn’t want to even entertain the idea, then unfortunately the NBA would have to wait until his contract expires.

Same with Denver, if they don’t want to entertain the idea of a buyout, then it is what it is. Be a professional and show up to work.

The NBA only contribute 750k to a buyout with the rest paid by the players in a buyout situation (if the team is willing to negotiate), the NBA teams cannot sign foreign players without compensation to the original team. This was one of the premises as well, NBA overpowers the euro leagues and often the team is left without compensation. This sounds wrong on surface, but the NBA, the player and the foreign team fulfill the buyout conditions every time.

Very few contracts in Europe have NBA out clauses. The teams are against them and rarely agree to them. Also, very few contracts in Europe have buyout clauses. It's actually pretty rare, for the reason that players and agents are generally against them and don't want them.

Most of the contracts in Europe just have a set amount of money the player is owed if the team cuts them. And often it's nothing. If it's a EuroLeague contract, it might be a payoff fee of €100K euros net, €200K euros net, €500K euros ney, something like that maybe, or might be nothing. But even in those cases it's not a buyout like in the NBA. It's just how much money is owed at a set time if the player is cut for contracts that are nit fully guaranteed.

And then most contracts also have a set amount of money the player is owed if the player wants to be released. Usually that is just whatever the player was already owed.

If the European contract is fully guaranteed, like a lot of EuroLeague contracts are, then the player just gets the money owed in the remaining contract. The owed salary can then be split by the new team and the old team, or paid in full by the new team, or if not, the previous team still has to pay it.

That's what happened when Mirotic left Barsa and signed with Milan. Barsa still had to pay his entire salary, even though he was no longer on the team. And then on top of that, he got paid also by Milan. But there was no transfer fee, no buyout, no compensation for Barsa. Nothing like that.

As far as transfer fees, they are rarely included in European contracts either. Sometimes EuroLeague teams do get a transfer fee from other EuroLeague teams, but it's always negotiated and not something in the contract. That also happens quite rarely and it pretty much never happens with NBA teams being involved. I don't recall any European team ever getting a transfer fee from an NBA team. I don't think that's ever happened.

Like probably 95+% of the time when NBA teams negotiate with players under contract in Europe, there is no out clause nor buyout, nor transfer fee, and the European team gets no compensation.

This has actually been a major topic of complaints from European teams to FIBA for a long time. But FIBA has for years failed to do anything about it.

It's interesting though that recently, since the NBA announced its plans for NBA Europe, working along with FIBA, EuroLeague teams have started talking about placing protection rules on their players, and preventing the NBA from doing that.

I don't know if actually going after NBA players under contract could be a part of that new way of thinking, but it's kind of an interesting timing coincidence.

95 percent of the time? Ok I wasn’t aware of that statistic since you are can you post the link to where you got that number or are you pulling that of your ass.

[Mirotic12]

95 percent of the time? Ok I wasn’t aware of that statistic since you are can you post the link to where you got that number or are you pulling that of your ass.

The only time it really happens, for the most part, is pretty much with big rich clubs getting young talents from smaller clubs.

For established pros that are playing in the EuroLeague, it's rare. The biggest teams do it only once in a while, and the only team that ever did it even occasionally (CSKA Moscow), is no longer allowed to play in European competitions.

Just look at EuroLeague rosters and hardly any of the rotation players were acquired through anything like transferring fees and paid buyouts.

The vast majority of the players on EuroLeague rosters are acquired through the normal free agency process.

[DaFan334]

95 percent of the time? Ok I wasn’t aware of that statistic since you are can you post the link to where you got that number or are you pulling that of your ass.

The only time it really happens, for the most part, is pretty much with big rich clubs getting young talents from smaller clubs.

For established pros that are playing in the EuroLeague, it's rare. The biggest teams do it only once in a while, and the only team that ever did it even occasionally (CSKA Moscow), is no longer allowed to play in European competitions.

Just look at EuroLeague rosters and hardly any of the rotation players were acquired through anything like transferring fees and paid buyouts.

The vast majority of the players on EuroLeague rosters are acquired through the normal free agency process.

It doesn't happen there because there isn't a Collective Bargaining Agreement in the EuroLeague. It would probably be hard for there to be due to different country labor laws, would be my assumption. This also probably makes transfers of contracts nearly impossible. I think transfer fees in football (soccer) normally include new contracts that are above what current teams are willing to pay.

It's comparing apples to oranges between US sports and International leagues in regards to player movement. I prefer American leagues due to the player movement, but I also don't follow International leagues in any other sport to truly understand the difference. I feel like CBAs in the NFL and NBA just make things more competitive and fun to watch as things change, but that's my ignorant opinion.


Regarding the situation with Jonas's international agent not talking to the Nuggets prior to insisting on them buying out his contract, that probably is going to put Jeff Schwartz, his American agent, in a bit of a jam, since his biggest clients are Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic. The conversations among them will probably be an interesting story that we may never hear.

[Blame Rasho]

This is a very curious thread— since it just involves a scrub who really won’t move the needle for an NBA team

Val isn't a scrub, get real

and yes, in a vacuum he def doesn't move the needle but for Denver - he does

A reminder that this is a team that took the juggernaut OKC to 7 games with their second option playing horrendously, all with a rookie HC who got the gig a week before the playoffs

They don't need much to get over the hump and backup C has been for years, their most mind-boggling and glaring hole

Based on a lot of durden_tyler's posts on the forums, he considers all players not in the NBA to be scrubs. That includes any NBA player that is said to be considering leaving the NBA.

If Michael Jordan had at some point played in another league, he would have immediately became a "scrub" according to this logic.

Well when we talk about scrubs, we should save it for players like Vassilis Spanoulis who cried endlessly for his mommy and complete failure of an nba career.

Valunciunas played at a high level for years, made hundreds of million of dollars in the hardest and toughest league in the world and now he wants to rest easy. I mean in a league where Walter Talvares is a top player and gets awards, I can safely say he will be happy playing less games and less mins with less competition night in and night out.

[Mirotic12]

Valunciunas played at a high level for years, made hundreds of million of dollars in the hardest and toughest league in the world and now he wants to rest easy. I mean in a league where Walter Talvares is a top player and gets awards, I can safely say he will be happy playing less games and less mins with less competition night in and night out.

It's not less games. Most EuroLeague teams are playing around 85 to 90 games a season.

The EuroLeague regular season is generally a lot more intense and a hell of a lot more physical and with more contact allowed, than the NBA regular season is.

There are no teams resting stars, taking long travel games off, or tanking for high draft picks in the EuroLeague, like there are in the NBA regular season.

Panathinaikos has a far more demanding related media, fan base, and ownership than any NBA team does, and the pressure on players to win every game is also way higher than it is on any NBA team.

So hopefully, Jonas is more aware of what he would be facing if he joins Panathinaikos, than you are. And hopefully, he isn't actually wanting to join Panathinaikos to, "rest easy" and to "play less games with less competition, night in and night out."

Because if that's what he wants, then he most definitely better stay with the Nuggets.

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Is this guy credible?

Read on Twitter

[KGtabake]

Valanciunas, Murray and Jokic having the same agent is making this even more interesting.

[AleksandarN]

Valanciunas, Murray and Jokic having the same agent is making this even more interesting.

Not his European ones that’s the problem

[KGtabake]

Valanciunas, Murray and Jokic having the same agent is making this even more interesting.

Not his European ones that’s the problem

I read that the Nuggets knew that he didn't want to play in the NBA anymore and they were aware of the Panathinaikos deal.
But they wanted to proceed because they wanted to get out of Saric contract.
So, they agreed under one condition.
They had an agreement under the table, that the whole situation would not become public.
But his agent broke the news to a Lithuanian reporter and the whole situation unveiled.
What a mess if true

[Jordan45822]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

His comment makes no sense at all. But yes, he certainly didn’t say he wants to play in Denver.

[AleksandarN]

95 percent of the time? Ok I wasn’t aware of that statistic since you are can you post the link to where you got that number or are you pulling that of your ass.

The only time it really happens, for the most part, is pretty much with big rich clubs getting young talents from smaller clubs.

For established pros that are playing in the EuroLeague, it's rare. The biggest teams do it only once in a while, and the only team that ever did it even occasionally (CSKA Moscow), is no longer allowed to play in European competitions.

Just look at EuroLeague rosters and hardly any of the rotation players were acquired through anything like transferring fees and paid buyouts.

The vast majority of the players on EuroLeague rosters are acquired through the normal free agency process.

Oh so you pulled that statistic out of your ass

[Red8911]

Does Val know what he’s getting into if he signs with panathinakos? Google their owner and watch videos. Guy is a total nut job and not sure why he’s even allowed to be involved with a professional team.