Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[M-C-G]

This is where Horst being a trash negotiator really hurts us. Absolute no-brainer to turn Kuz into either of those guys (Kuminga, Barrett) if all I have to do is throw in Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever. But you just know that Toronto and Golden State are saying they need AJ Green and a 2032 pick swap in the deal because there's a better than decent chance that Horst is gonna cave based on past precedent.

Of course they are going to ask for that but I disagree Horst has been a bad negotiator. Dude consistently finds creative ways to get things done. I don’t know, I’ll wait to see what we end up with. This roster is a SF away from being great and we still have some ammo.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

AJ Green is not untouchable, he's a solid 3+D guard with a little more 3 than D. However, he's cost controlled, a high effort guy, he can maintain those shooting percentages with higher usage, and the second we traded him, a player exactly like I described would be our major need. So yeah, I'd deal him if it got us off Kuz's contract and netted us a more dynamic young player. But anything short of that, he's a keeper.

I basically agree with you (although I'd have a very high standard for the dynamic young player) but I think the 3+D label has taken a beating after many years of being applied to guys who are not very effective at either 3 or D or both. AJ is a true quick-trigger high-accuracy shooter who is also a legitimately good perimeter defender. There is real scarcity of shooters at his level, and the guys who can also defend narrows it further, and then you add the fact that he rarely **** up... not only would trading him create a major need, it would be a very challenging need to fill.

It's a similar scenario to Midds where we'd be trading a guy who's worth more to us on the court than he's likely to be worth on the market, with the added kicker that he's just entering his prime. So we'd probably get worse in any trade while throwing away the opportunity to lock up an undervalued player long term.

I guess I just see the board (like always) dividing in to one of two extremes (Green is untouchable, vs Green is overrated). I'm trying to thread the needle that shows his unique value, while acknowledging he's not an all star.

Interesting exercise for the board, to what degree does your perception of our guy's value change if they hit your "reasonable expectations?" For example, if AJ Green starts for us, or even gets to the 20+ minutes level, and maintains his efficiency numbers, I think he's theoretically a 15+ mil a year guy on the open market. Likewise, but to a lesser degree, Porter Jr and Trent and Rollins could all be in line for major raises if the upcoming season plays out as I envision.

giannis and green are damn near .500 basketball on their own offensively. defensively they are both plus. you build off of that combo. they are the two most important players on the roster imo

3 greens, giannis and turner could win a title. call me wrong i'll argue with you on it

[Ron Swanson]

This is where Horst being a trash negotiator really hurts us. Absolute no-brainer to turn Kuz into either of those guys (Kuminga, Barrett) if all I have to do is throw in Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever. But you just know that Toronto and Golden State are saying they need AJ Green and a 2032 pick swap in the deal because there's a better than decent chance that Horst is gonna cave based on past precedent.

Of course they are going to ask for that but I disagree Horst has been a bad negotiator. Dude consistently finds creative ways to get things done. I don’t know, I’ll wait to see what we end up with. This roster is a SF away from being great and we still have some ammo.

Never implied he was bad at negotiating contracts/free agency. But you can't really argue that the guy doesn't get bent over a barrel in trade negotiations time and time again.

[M-C-G]

AJ Green is not untouchable, he's a solid 3+D guard with a little more 3 than D. However, he's cost controlled, a high effort guy, he can maintain those shooting percentages with higher usage, and the second we traded him, a player exactly like I described would be our major need. So yeah, I'd deal him if it got us off Kuz's contract and netted us a more dynamic young player. But anything short of that, he's a keeper.

I basically agree with you (although I'd have a very high standard for the dynamic young player) but I think the 3+D label has taken a beating after many years of being applied to guys who are not very effective at either 3 or D or both. AJ is a true quick-trigger high-accuracy shooter who is also a legitimately good perimeter defender. There is real scarcity of shooters at his level, and the guys who can also defend narrows it further, and then you add the fact that he rarely **** up... not only would trading him create a major need, it would be a very challenging need to fill.

It's a similar scenario to Midds where we'd be trading a guy who's worth more to us on the court than he's likely to be worth on the market, with the added kicker that he's just entering his prime. So we'd probably get worse in any trade while throwing away the opportunity to lock up an undervalued player long term.

I guess I just see the board (like always) dividing in to one of two extremes (Green is untouchable, vs Green is overrated). I'm trying to thread the needle that shows his unique value, while acknowledging he's not an all star.

Interesting exercise for the board, to what degree does your perception of our guy's value change if they hit your "reasonable expectations?" For example, if AJ Green starts for us, or even gets to the 20+ minutes level, and maintains his efficiency numbers, I think he's theoretically a 15+ mil a year guy on the open market. Likewise, but to a lesser degree, Porter Jr and Trent and Rollins could all be in line for major raises if the upcoming season plays out as I envision.

AJ Green has arguably been a better player than JJ Redick three years in. I’m not opposed to using him in a trade but had he been a first round I think he would be viewed drastically differently

[jakecronus8]

This is where Horst being a trash negotiator really hurts us. Absolute no-brainer to turn Kuz into either of those guys (Kuminga, Barrett) if all I have to do is throw in Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever. But you just know that Toronto and Golden State are saying they need AJ Green and a 2032 pick swap in the deal because there's a better than decent chance that Horst is gonna cave based on past precedent.

Of course they are going to ask for that but I disagree Horst has been a bad negotiator. Dude consistently finds creative ways to get things done. I don’t know, I’ll wait to see what we end up with. This roster is a SF away from being great and we still have some ammo.

Never implied he was bad at negotiating contracts/free agency. But you can't really argue that the guy doesn't get bent over a barrel in trade negotiations time and time again.

This is true. Horst kick started the era of star roleplayers getting traded for generational superstar returns when he broke the bank for Jrue. It worked, but its the reason guys like Bridges and Gobert are now getting half a decade's worth of picks in trades.

[M-C-G]

This is where Horst being a trash negotiator really hurts us. Absolute no-brainer to turn Kuz into either of those guys (Kuminga, Barrett) if all I have to do is throw in Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever. But you just know that Toronto and Golden State are saying they need AJ Green and a 2032 pick swap in the deal because there's a better than decent chance that Horst is gonna cave based on past precedent.

Of course they are going to ask for that but I disagree Horst has been a bad negotiator. Dude consistently finds creative ways to get things done. I don’t know, I’ll wait to see what we end up with. This roster is a SF away from being great and we still have some ammo.

Never implied he was bad at negotiating contracts/free agency. But you can't really argue that the guy doesn't get bent over a barrel in trade negotiations time and time again.

We got Dame for less than expected. I don’t know I think he has been clever at getting deals done. Even the Kuz trade the ends appear to justify the means. I’m not going to die on this hill, I think he is a decent GM that still gets ‘5 seconds for Jae’ as a main point of contention, even though we moved salary and before that trade GMs barely considered second round picks assets.

[soxperry]

AJ Green is not untouchable, he's a solid 3+D guard with a little more 3 than D. However, he's cost controlled, a high effort guy, he can maintain those shooting percentages with higher usage, and the second we traded him, a player exactly like I described would be our major need. So yeah, I'd deal him if it got us off Kuz's contract and netted us a more dynamic young player. But anything short of that, he's a keeper.

I basically agree with you (although I'd have a very high standard for the dynamic young player) but I think the 3+D label has taken a beating after many years of being applied to guys who are not very effective at either 3 or D or both. AJ is a true quick-trigger high-accuracy shooter who is also a legitimately good perimeter defender. There is real scarcity of shooters at his level, and the guys who can also defend narrows it further, and then you add the fact that he rarely **** up... not only would trading him create a major need, it would be a very challenging need to fill.

It's a similar scenario to Midds where we'd be trading a guy who's worth more to us on the court than he's likely to be worth on the market, with the added kicker that he's just entering his prime. So we'd probably get worse in any trade while throwing away the opportunity to lock up an undervalued player long term.

I guess I just see the board (like always) dividing in to one of two extremes (Green is untouchable, vs Green is overrated). I'm trying to thread the needle that shows his unique value, while acknowledging he's not an all star.

Interesting exercise for the board, to what degree does your perception of our guy's value change if they hit your "reasonable expectations?" For example, if AJ Green starts for us, or even gets to the 20+ minutes level, and maintains his efficiency numbers, I think he's theoretically a 15+ mil a year guy on the open market. Likewise, but to a lesser degree, Porter Jr and Trent and Rollins could all be in line for major raises if the upcoming season plays out as I envision.

No no... You misunderstand. Everyone likes and appreciates AJ. The people that you think are calling him overrated are actually just reacting to the notion that hes untouchable or insert whatever hyperbole.

He's a playoff rotation guy and Im glad we have him.

[ajb905]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/pacers-pritchard-discusses-losing-turner-to-bucks.html

Couldn't they have made it a sign and trade after the fact? With stretching Dame, I assume they wouldn't have MLE...though not sure if they did Pat trade later they could of?

At this point hard to see Sixers not matching a full MLE offer for Grimes, so probably just wasn't worth it for Bucks?

[Bernman]

Giving up '31 for Kuminga would reek of more desperation than the Turner move. Heck, I think investing in yrs beyond Kuzma's contract would by itself, cuz you restrict yourselves majorly in the last few yrs of Dame's stretch, for a guy whose a wild card and bad fit here.

We can wait to the deadline, at least, to play our final cards, if they're not present at the moment. Then we can offer the picks, 2nd apron relief, & maybe a Kuzma who's not a negative asset. We could also then use Bobby's salary slot for a trade. After the season we'd have 2 more picks.

[M-C-G]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/pacers-pritchard-discusses-losing-turner-to-bucks.html

Couldn't they have made it a sign and trade after the fact? With stretching Dame, I assume they wouldn't have MLE...though not sure if they did Pat trade later they could of?

At this point hard to see Sixers not matching a full MLE offer for Grimes, so probably just wasn't worth it for Bucks?

Hard for me to believe the Pacers wanted to help us out in any way on this deal. A TPE probably doesn’t do anything for them in a gap year. I tend to believe they are kind of pissed about us getting him.

[Diggr14]

Id rather take a chance that Topic's knees stay attached and make an offer for him.

[Turk Nowitzki]

I'm not coughing up that 2031 1st for Kuminga, no way.

[BroncoBuck]

Kuminga’s ability to handle the ball is intriguing. Kerr is probably the most rigid coach in the league when it comes to his system. Kuminga really needs to get the hell out of there, but the reality of RFA and the further constraints of this CBA are brutal

That said, AJ Green should be untouchable. They can take Kuzma and Ajax. We should be able to add them as a swap to our current swaps as well.

[Rstuedes24]

Kuminga just doesn't seem to make sense. 31 or 32 is an overpay, would be willing to do Kuzma/Ajax but what's the incentive for GS on that? They take on bad money and get a guy who's playing summer league games in his 3rd year?

[mlloyd10]

Am i the only one that things Barrett is a more athletic Joe Johnson?

[MickeyDavis]

This is where Horst being a trash negotiator really hurts us. Absolute no-brainer to turn Kuz into either of those guys (Kuminga, Barrett) if all I have to do is throw in Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever.

We have no idea what deals are on the table, what's been proposed/turned down from us or any other team. Sure it's a "no brainer" to trade Kuz + Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever for Kuminga or Barrett. Has Horst turned that down? None of us knows.

[soxperry]

Am i the only one that things Barrett is a more athletic Joe Johnson?

When looking into Kpj's per 36 numbers, Barrett was a surprising standout statistically. I dont know his actual game though

Edit: bball index doesn't seem to like him

[ABucksFan]

Am i the only one that things Barrett is a more athletic Joe Johnson?

Sorry I don't see this one at all.

[bucksfansince88]

Am i the only one that things Barrett is a more athletic Joe Johnson?

Joe Johnson was an ELITE iso scorer/shooter and multiple time all-star. Barrett isnt anywhere near that type of player imo

[Bernman]

It's hardly a no brainer if we need to add yr(s) more salary or a lot extra per, for guys who'd be worse defenders, and we can't justifying flipping them in a half season, w/ the picks + salary relief attached, for a much better wing (Murphy?) than Kuzma, Barrett, or Kuminga.

BTW, Barrett's been even less efficient than Kuzma, outside of an outlier season where he posted a ts% of 58. His others are 54's and down, like Kuzma. And Kuzma usually hit 54's, unlike Barrett. Barrett was also a big negative on-off +/- guy in NY, only marginal positive this yr in Toronto.