Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[old skool]

I basically agree with you (although I'd have a very high standard for the dynamic young player) but I think the 3+D label has taken a beating after many years of being applied to guys who are not very effective at either 3 or D or both. AJ is a true quick-trigger high-accuracy shooter who is also a legitimately good perimeter defender. There is real scarcity of shooters at his level, and the guys who can also defend narrows it further, and then you add the fact that he rarely **** up... not only would trading him create a major need, it would be a very challenging need to fill.

It's a similar scenario to Midds where we'd be trading a guy who's worth more to us on the court than he's likely to be worth on the market, with the added kicker that he's just entering his prime. So we'd probably get worse in any trade while throwing away the opportunity to lock up an undervalued player long term.

I guess I just see the board (like always) dividing in to one of two extremes (Green is untouchable, vs Green is overrated). I'm trying to thread the needle that shows his unique value, while acknowledging he's not an all star.

Interesting exercise for the board, to what degree does your perception of our guy's value change if they hit your "reasonable expectations?" For example, if AJ Green starts for us, or even gets to the 20+ minutes level, and maintains his efficiency numbers, I think he's theoretically a 15+ mil a year guy on the open market. Likewise, but to a lesser degree, Porter Jr and Trent and Rollins could all be in line for major raises if the upcoming season plays out as I envision.

AJ Green has arguably been a better player than JJ Redick three years in. I’m not opposed to using him in a trade but had he been a first round I think he would be viewed drastically differently

If Green was a first round pick who averaged 7/2/2 in his best season to date at age 25, I think any fans of any NBA team would consider him a bust.

[SirChurros]

Big time disagree that Dairy has been a better player than “prime” Redick. Don’t even think it’s particularly close. Dairy has been way too timid for the discussion to even be had, IMO.

He should have seen his numbers shoot up with expanded minutes last year and they didn’t really.

[Bernman]

I guess I just see the board (like always) dividing in to one of two extremes (Green is untouchable, vs Green is overrated). I'm trying to thread the needle that shows his unique value, while acknowledging he's not an all star.

Interesting exercise for the board, to what degree does your perception of our guy's value change if they hit your "reasonable expectations?" For example, if AJ Green starts for us, or even gets to the 20+ minutes level, and maintains his efficiency numbers, I think he's theoretically a 15+ mil a year guy on the open market. Likewise, but to a lesser degree, Porter Jr and Trent and Rollins could all be in line for major raises if the upcoming season plays out as I envision.

AJ Green has arguably been a better player than JJ Redick three years in. I’m not opposed to using him in a trade but had he been a first round I think he would be viewed drastically differently

If Green was a first round pick who averaged 7/2/2 in his best season to date at age 25, I think any fans of any NBA team would consider him a bust.

That's not true. If he was a lower 1st, and his coach was stupid to not play him more even though he was their best net rating guy on the team outside their superstar, fans of all teams wouldn't view him a bust.

Heck, Battier posted 8/4/1 his 3rd yr, after being picked 6th, and he wasn't viewed as a bust. Just a winning low-usage 3&d guy, similar to how most our fans rightly view Green.

[M-C-G]

Big time disagree that Dairy has been a better player than “prime” Redick. Don’t even think it’s particularly close. Dairy has been way too timid for the discussion to even be had, IMO.

He should have seen his numbers shoot up with expanded minutes last year and they didn’t really.

Who said prime? I said first three years.

[Debit One]

Am i the only one that things Barrett is a more athletic Joe Johnson?

Yes

[M-C-G]

AJ Green has arguably been a better player than JJ Redick three years in. I’m not opposed to using him in a trade but had he been a first round I think he would be viewed drastically differently

If Green was a first round pick who averaged 7/2/2 in his best season to date at age 25, I think any fans of any NBA team would consider him a bust.

That's not true. If he was a lower 1st, and his coach was stupid to not play him more even though he was their best net rating guy on the team outside their superstar, fans of all teams wouldn't view him a bust.

Heck, Battier posted 8/4/1 his 3rd yr, after being picked 6th, and he wasn't viewed as a bust. Just a winning low-usage 3&d guy, similar to how most our fans rightly view Green.

Which is similar to the first three years JJ was in the league. I’d argue AJ had an uphill battle getting playing time because he wasn’t a first round pick. I don’t think AJG ends up better than JJ for the record but they share a lot of similar traits.

[Bernman]

Big time disagree that Dairy has been a better player than “prime” Redick. Don’t even think it’s particularly close. Dairy has been way too timid for the discussion to even be had, IMO.

He should have seen his numbers shoot up with expanded minutes last year and they didn’t really.

Timid has eff all to do w/ it. He can't create his own shot & half the time he wasn't played w/ Giannis cuz of the genius coach. Still in double the minutes, he averaged 1 and 2/3 times the pts & 3* the assists. They went up plenty. He's a low usage 3 pt threat & solid defender. He's a better defender and rebounder than Redick was. If you put him around creators, maybe there's a case.

[M-C-G]

I guess I just see the board (like always) dividing in to one of two extremes (Green is untouchable, vs Green is overrated). I'm trying to thread the needle that shows his unique value, while acknowledging he's not an all star.

Interesting exercise for the board, to what degree does your perception of our guy's value change if they hit your "reasonable expectations?" For example, if AJ Green starts for us, or even gets to the 20+ minutes level, and maintains his efficiency numbers, I think he's theoretically a 15+ mil a year guy on the open market. Likewise, but to a lesser degree, Porter Jr and Trent and Rollins could all be in line for major raises if the upcoming season plays out as I envision.

AJ Green has arguably been a better player than JJ Redick three years in. I’m not opposed to using him in a trade but had he been a first round I think he would be viewed drastically differently

If Green was a first round pick who averaged 7/2/2 in his best season to date at age 25, I think any fans of any NBA team would consider him a bust.

So what was JJ? Didn’t crack 10 ppg until 26 and didn’t have 40% 3 pt shooting until 26.

[M-C-G]

Big time disagree that Dairy has been a better player than “prime” Redick. Don’t even think it’s particularly close. Dairy has been way too timid for the discussion to even be had, IMO.

He should have seen his numbers shoot up with expanded minutes last year and they didn’t really.

Timid has eff all to do w/ it. He can't create his own shot & half the time he wasn't played w/ Giannis cuz of the genius coach. Still in double the minutes, he averaged 1 and 2/3 times the pts & 3* the assists. They went up plenty. He's a low usage 3 pt threat & solid defender. He's a better defender and rebounder than Redick was. If you put him around creators, maybe there's a case.

I think I just want to expand his role. As a role player who I think was undrafted (correct me if I am wrong) I think there is more meat on the bone. Now that said, I’d still move him in the right deal.

[M-C-G]

One of you guys mentioned Ben Simmons and my first response was to say no way because I don’t think he and Giannis work BUT leading the second unit is growing on me.

[Ron Swanson]

AJ's obviously never gonna be a dude who puts up big slash lines or box scores but that also doesn't really quantify his value. Re: Barrett, if you want some "he still has a leap in him" hope, he's really improved his 2PT% the last two seasons (52 and 55%) which was by far his biggest weakness as an offensive player. Weirdly his FT% has been bad ever since he went to Toronto, so if that stabilizes back to his career norms (70%), I think he's actually developed into a pretty underrated offensive player. I'd be more concerned about the defensive metrics and whether or not it's just an effort issue.

[Bernman]

If Green was a first round pick who averaged 7/2/2 in his best season to date at age 25, I think any fans of any NBA team would consider him a bust.

That's not true. If he was a lower 1st, and his coach was stupid to not play him more even though he was their best net rating guy on the team outside their superstar, fans of all teams wouldn't view him a bust.

Heck, Battier posted 8/4/1 his 3rd yr, after being picked 6th, and he wasn't viewed as a bust. Just a winning low-usage 3&d guy, similar to how most our fans rightly view Green.

Which is similar to the first three years JJ was in the league. I’d argue AJ had an uphill battle getting playing time because he wasn’t a first round pick. I don’t think AJG ends up better than JJ for the record but they share a lot of similar traits.

Dually noted. Green was definitely better his 1st few yrs, but Redick's a weird case. His 1st 6 yrs in the league he was a negative on/off guy. Then for the next 9 he was a positive one. Did a total 180. Green was positive last 2 yrs (big positive this 1).

If he went thru Redick's evolution, he'd be a lot better than Redick. But it's also not a very instructive case. Some version of Dort, a little worse d, a little better o/shooting, is Green's realistic best case scenario evolution. That's not untouchable, but likely has more value to us.

[fansinceforever]

This is where Horst being a trash negotiator really hurts us. Absolute no-brainer to turn Kuz into either of those guys (Kuminga, Barrett) if all I have to do is throw in Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever.

We have no idea what deals are on the table, what's been proposed/turned down from us or any other team. Sure it's a "no brainer" to trade Kuz + Andre, Tyler Smith, a 2nd, whatever for Kuminga or Barrett. Has Horst turned that down? None of us knows.

I'll answer pretty conclusively: No.

Theres no tactic you could use to make this package look appealing. Especially to a team trying to win like the Warriors. They better really like Tyler Smith...

[emunney]

Redick was a substantially more aggressive player looking for his own shot. He shot more FTs as a rookie than AJ's shot in the NBA so far. AJ's been a more prolific 3pt shooter and a far better defender.

[M-C-G]

Redick was a substantially more aggressive player looking for his own shot. He shot more FTs as a rookie than AJ's shot in the NBA so far. AJ's been a more prolific 3pt shooter and a far better defender.

I think draft position is a factor there. But I think most of us want to see AJG role expand.

Side note, I think him and GTJ had some really good chemistry together.

[SirChurros]

Big time disagree that Dairy has been a better player than “prime” Redick. Don’t even think it’s particularly close. Dairy has been way too timid for the discussion to even be had, IMO.

He should have seen his numbers shoot up with expanded minutes last year and they didn’t really.

Who said prime? I said first three years.

Apologies, I missed that part.

[jakecronus8]

I like Green too, but untouchable is a massive stretch.

[Matches Malone]

Beal and LAC seem destined. And I doubt Beal's wife is letting him get anywhere near Milwaukee.

Read on Twitter

[M-C-G]

Big time disagree that Dairy has been a better player than “prime” Redick. Don’t even think it’s particularly close. Dairy has been way too timid for the discussion to even be had, IMO.

He should have seen his numbers shoot up with expanded minutes last year and they didn’t really.

Who said prime? I said first three years.

Apologies, I missed that part.

No worries, I think he is a fine player, but just found the comp to JJ interesting to start their careers.

[M-C-G]

I like Green too, but untouchable is a massive stretch.

Agreed, I think he has enough value that he (and other pieces) could be enough to land a SF we need. But that isn’t Kuminga, not worth giving him up for that return.

What did Sam Merril sign for, a 4/38M, because if so that would be a great extension both for having him locked up and as a trade asset.