Warriors Free Agency 2025

[AirP.]

The reporting has been that the FO is split on JK, as is the coaching staff. I doubt it's 50/50 but I also don't think lacob's JK's only fan in the organization.

As much as the board doesn't want to admit it, there is a lot to like about JK and what he can be. There's even some things to like about he's already been.

There really is no reason to sell him now for "a player to be waived later." I don't think there's anything irreparable here, on either end, and if we come up with the best offer, I don't think he'll leave. Come the deadline, we'll see

He does have talent, he is a scorer, I just don't know how you build a contender with him as one of your top 2 offensive options in this era. He's just a slightly bigger version of Corey Maggette except in the 3pt era. Doesn't create for others, doesn't shoot 3s very well but is very athletic and can get his. I just don't know how you win with that type of player near the top of your roster. He has a career .583 TS% which is good, especially without a good 3pt shot, but his career calculated ORG is 113 which is basically average. He did have a 117 calculated ORTG in 23-24 which was 11th out of the 18 roster players that season. This season he was 17th of 23 roster players for calculated ORTG with the only rotation players under him being Draymond, Schroeder, Melton and Waters.

I would not be surprised at all if he ends up around a 20ppg guy in the NBA, I just don't think he'll win all that much with how he plays. He's a top scorer for a bad team type of player.

Most of what you just said could have been used to describe almost all great scorers, particularly early in their careers.

And a lot of players who couldn't last in the NBA.

Mike was selfish and wasn't a winning player. Kobe rode the bench for two years. Tmac got traded before his rookie deal expired.

If you're talking about Jordan, you're absolutely wrong, his team was trash (hence Chicago getting such a high pick) 3 of his first 4 years he had 5+ assists, by his 4th year not only did he lead the league in scoring but he was also the DPOTY. Jordan by far out worked everyone on his team, he just didn't have any help.

Before he got here, Wiggins was a low IQ, good stats, bad team guy. Many questioned his competitive nature and whether he even liked basketball. We all like to think it was Kerr and the system that turned wigs around. Maybe he just matured, as many people tend to do in their mid to late twenties.

Wiggins had to have his ego take a hit before he started playing more the right way, I watched Wiggins and Towns nearly every game for 2 years in Minnesota. Kuminga needs the same type of ego hit which he won't get unless he's moved, possibly moved twice.

I think the mags comp is fair but I see that as the floor. The ceiling is much higher though, also, less likely.

Maybe, he is a little bigger then Maggette was.

If we were the league's best offense, really needed help on defense, and JK was surplus to requirements, this thread would be less weird to me. In fact, we have the opposite problem and JK is one of the few players we have to throw at it.

The problem is he wants to be the #1 option, even with an all-time great like Curry on the floor. At Curry's age you don't want him to waste his energy being basically a decoy most of the time with Kuminga so Kuminga can get an easier shot.

But sure, let's sell low because the alternative is... What? Signing him to a bargain contract and giving him 50 games to find a groove with Steph, dray, and Jimmy? Don't threaten me with a good time.

The alternative may be the same thing that happened with Wiggins and with Poole, both got huge 2nd contracts and both had to have assets added to them to move their contracts.

P.S. before the strawman brigade comes out, I am clearly not saying, or implying, that JK is Mike, Kobe, or tmac. Crazy that I even have to name that disclaimer....

TMac is the only one that was in Kuminga's situation (didn't get a chance so he left Toronto, a forced S&T), the others proved themselves within their first contract. Once again, you can have talent but not play the way needed to optimize a team.

[AirP.]

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[eminence]

In his very brief stint I thought he looked very nice last season.

[TB]

Kuminga for 20m or less.

Horford, Beal, Melton with TPMLE/Vet Mins

That would be an incredible off-season.

[statsman]

Why are the Warriors mentioned as a possible destination in a S&T of Malcolm Brogdon? Doing so would hard cap them at the 1st apron, and I see no real way for that to happen. I think some other teams on that list have the same issue.

[AirP.]

Why are the Warriors mentioned as a possible destination in a S&T of Malcolm Brogdon? Doing so would hard cap them at the 1st apron, and I see no real way for that to happen. I think some other teams on that list have the same issue.

Washington is willing to do a S&T, that doesn't mean there has to be a S&T.

[Onus]

Haven't heard anyone call JK soft, as you did above at the mention that JK may not want to play here.

I was implying it would be soft of JK if he thought the way azwfan was saying he would leave too if he was in JK's shoes. Not that JK is soft, but that mentality is soft.

Care to explain why JK was losing time to anthony lamb? or why podz gets all the rope he can handle while JK rides the pine? Or why buddy hield is publicly introduced to steph curry in an attempt to get him to pass more but has no impact on the actual minutes played?

Sure because Anthony Lamb could somewhat shoot and was a bigger wing body and was attempting to be in the right spots. While JK was all over the place and not in the right spots, and getting lost on defense.

He wasn't publicly introduced. It was obviously a light hearted joke because Steph was open and he wants good shot to great shot. Buddy had his minutes constantly up in the air as well when he started out as our 2nd best player to start the year but still wasn't getting to start even though Kerr had tried everyone else but Buddy.

BTW, not all coaches have it right. I remember how keith smart and marc jackson wanted steph to play. Forget steph, the nba was allergic to 3pt shots and preferred contested 18 footers over open 3s for like 40 years. I think Kerr is a great coach but he overindexes in certain areas - like skill over size, passing over scoring, and defense over offense. I agree on all 3 of those, btw, but not to the degree Kerr does. In the end, I'm sure he's right far more often than I would be.

Even Kerr has, multiple times, admitted being wrong for not playing JK enough (or Moody or GP2 or ..). Does that carry more weight than his statements after this season? No. Are they worthless? Also, no.

Sure Kerr could be wrong. But Kerr dictates JK's minutes. If Kerr says hey if you want to get minutes play defense and rebound then you should try to play defense and rebound to get minutes. Are you trying to say if JK was an elite defender and rebounder he wouldn't get minutes?

Kerr is wrong about a multitude of things, he's not some infallible coach. That has nothing to do with whether or not Kerr wants JK to play defense and rebound. Hell I would assume every coach would love for all their players to play defense and rebound.

Leaving after 4 years of the coach trying to shoehorn into his idea of what you need to be isn't soft. It may be wrong, stubborn, etc. but it's not soft. We may just have different definitions of that word and I'd rather not argue semantics. Let's just leave it.

Weird to see you defend the lamb decision. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. He was bad but slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued. It was obvious Lamb would have no shot to contribute come playoff time and our hopes rested on development from JK and Moody. Instead, it was a year wasted and we KNEW we wouldn't be able to bring either back if they actually played ok (e.g. jerome). We still gave lamb and jerome minutes that needed to got to JK and Moody, that season, for impact THAT SEASON. At the very least, we'd all have more clarity about who those 2 players are.

It was "public" in that it was loud, in front of the team, and meant to make a point. Yes, buddy's minutes fluctuated. DNP-CDs, however, were only on the menu for TJD, Gui, Spencer, and JK. One of those things is not like the other.

Kerr has said a lot. Like, A LOT. Sure, if JK was an elite defender and rebounder, he'd play more. If he was a better shooter, he'd play more. If he was a better passer, he'd play more. Yes. My point is that he should have been playing more than he did, despite his flaws. NOT because he's so good. Because our other options are, and have been for years, worse.

Kerr is also very public about his criticism of some and not very public at all about others. He's also quick to pull the rope a certain type of player for the same mistakes a different player type makes. bigs vs guards, as the prime example. Defense is another great example. On this roster, JK is not the best defender, but he's not the worst. In many situations, he is our best on-ball defender, especially against bigger guards/wings. In many other situations, he's lost off-ball and transition. Though he's a very different player on that end, I'd say he's similar to Podz; another player that has glaring weaknesses and impressive strength on D. One has been LOCKED IN to 30+ minutes since his 2nd month in the league while JK is still fielding DNP-CDs. I can't imagine how hard it would be to sit on the sidelines and see that, especially when there are hundreds of millions on the line.

There are common workplace dynamics in all of these situations. If you were watching a younger and less talented co-worker keep getting promoted while getting your opportunities you'd probably have a reaction, especially after 4 years. I think most people agree that it's best for both parties to separate. Since this is sports, I'm hoping against logic that this isn't' beyond repair and both can get on the same page.

How do you say in one breath that Lamb was slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued and then say the options were worse a few paragraphs down?

There's literally no other options other than Pat Spencer for Podz. So now you're in favor of playing Anthony Lamb (Spencer) over JK (Podz)? Your arguments are all over the place.

Again the NBA hell sports in general is different than your common workplace.

[vvoland]

He does have talent, he is a scorer, I just don't know how you build a contender with him as one of your top 2 offensive options in this era. He's just a slightly bigger version of Corey Maggette except in the 3pt era. Doesn't create for others, doesn't shoot 3s very well but is very athletic and can get his. I just don't know how you win with that type of player near the top of your roster. He has a career .583 TS% which is good, especially without a good 3pt shot, but his career calculated ORG is 113 which is basically average. He did have a 117 calculated ORTG in 23-24 which was 11th out of the 18 roster players that season. This season he was 17th of 23 roster players for calculated ORTG with the only rotation players under him being Draymond, Schroeder, Melton and Waters.

I would not be surprised at all if he ends up around a 20ppg guy in the NBA, I just don't think he'll win all that much with how he plays. He's a top scorer for a bad team type of player.

Most of what you just said could have been used to describe almost all great scorers, particularly early in their careers.

And a lot of players who couldn't last in the NBA.

Mike was selfish and wasn't a winning player. Kobe rode the bench for two years. Tmac got traded before his rookie deal expired.

If you're talking about Jordan, you're absolutely wrong, his team was trash (hence Chicago getting such a high pick) 3 of his first 4 years he had 5+ assists, by his 4th year not only did he lead the league in scoring but he was also the DPOTY. Jordan by far out worked everyone on his team, he just didn't have any help.

Before he got here, Wiggins was a low IQ, good stats, bad team guy. Many questioned his competitive nature and whether he even liked basketball. We all like to think it was Kerr and the system that turned wigs around. Maybe he just matured, as many people tend to do in their mid to late twenties.

Wiggins had to have his ego take a hit before he started playing more the right way, I watched Wiggins and Towns nearly every game for 2 years in Minnesota. Kuminga needs the same type of ego hit which he won't get unless he's moved, possibly moved twice.

I think the mags comp is fair but I see that as the floor. The ceiling is much higher though, also, less likely.

Maybe, he is a little bigger then Maggette was.

If we were the league's best offense, really needed help on defense, and JK was surplus to requirements, this thread would be less weird to me. In fact, we have the opposite problem and JK is one of the few players we have to throw at it.

The problem is he wants to be the #1 option, even with an all-time great like Curry on the floor. At Curry's age you don't want him to waste his energy being basically a decoy most of the time with Kuminga so Kuminga can get an easier shot.

But sure, let's sell low because the alternative is... What? Signing him to a bargain contract and giving him 50 games to find a groove with Steph, dray, and Jimmy? Don't threaten me with a good time.

The alternative may be the same thing that happened with Wiggins and with Poole, both got huge 2nd contracts and both had to have assets added to them to move their contracts.

P.S. before the strawman brigade comes out, I am clearly not saying, or implying, that JK is Mike, Kobe, or tmac. Crazy that I even have to name that disclaimer....

TMac is the only one that was in Kuminga's situation (didn't get a chance so he left Toronto, a forced S&T), the others proved themselves within their first contract. Once again, you can have talent but not play the way needed to optimize a team.

All of that would be true if the assumption that he doesn't optimize a team was also true. Especially, Curry, as you relentlessly suggest JK wants to be the #1 option and to dominate over Steph because you saw him look off curry and jack a bunch of bad shots. I don't disagree with the second half of that statement, just the first.

As the lineup data consistently shows, Steph plays better with JK on the court, than off. Not surprisingly, almost all of the benefit comes on the offensive end. This is with very limited run in that role (more the 3x the minutes without steph than with, this season), his worst shooting season, and a lack of shooters around them. I didn't look up Steph's individual numbers with and w/o JK but I care far less about that than I do about the team. That said, I doubt Steph's offense declines with JK on the court if the team's offense is substantially better.

Again, I agree he may never reach his ceiling, or even approach it. I will continue to balk at the idea that trading him for a rookie, or an unproven 2nd year player that's actually OLDER than jk, is a good idea. Keeping him at 15-20M/yr seems like a very low risk, high reward bet.

[statsman]

Why are the Warriors mentioned as a possible destination in a S&T of Malcolm Brogdon? Doing so would hard cap them at the 1st apron, and I see no real way for that to happen. I think some other teams on that list have the same issue.

Washington is willing to do a S&T, that doesn't mean there has to be a S&T.

Brogdon is a FA. Moving him to the Warriors would absolutely require a S&T.

[Onus]

Kuminga for 20m or less.

Horford, Beal, Melton with TPMLE/Vet Mins

That would be an incredible off-season.

Doubt both Beal and Melton would both come, but either with the above would be a good off season.

[vvoland]

I was implying it would be soft of JK if he thought the way azwfan was saying he would leave too if he was in JK's shoes. Not that JK is soft, but that mentality is soft.


Sure because Anthony Lamb could somewhat shoot and was a bigger wing body and was attempting to be in the right spots. While JK was all over the place and not in the right spots, and getting lost on defense.

He wasn't publicly introduced. It was obviously a light hearted joke because Steph was open and he wants good shot to great shot. Buddy had his minutes constantly up in the air as well when he started out as our 2nd best player to start the year but still wasn't getting to start even though Kerr had tried everyone else but Buddy.


Sure Kerr could be wrong. But Kerr dictates JK's minutes. If Kerr says hey if you want to get minutes play defense and rebound then you should try to play defense and rebound to get minutes. Are you trying to say if JK was an elite defender and rebounder he wouldn't get minutes?

Kerr is wrong about a multitude of things, he's not some infallible coach. That has nothing to do with whether or not Kerr wants JK to play defense and rebound. Hell I would assume every coach would love for all their players to play defense and rebound.

Leaving after 4 years of the coach trying to shoehorn into his idea of what you need to be isn't soft. It may be wrong, stubborn, etc. but it's not soft. We may just have different definitions of that word and I'd rather not argue semantics. Let's just leave it.

Weird to see you defend the lamb decision. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. He was bad but slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued. It was obvious Lamb would have no shot to contribute come playoff time and our hopes rested on development from JK and Moody. Instead, it was a year wasted and we KNEW we wouldn't be able to bring either back if they actually played ok (e.g. jerome). We still gave lamb and jerome minutes that needed to got to JK and Moody, that season, for impact THAT SEASON. At the very least, we'd all have more clarity about who those 2 players are.

It was "public" in that it was loud, in front of the team, and meant to make a point. Yes, buddy's minutes fluctuated. DNP-CDs, however, were only on the menu for TJD, Gui, Spencer, and JK. One of those things is not like the other.

Kerr has said a lot. Like, A LOT. Sure, if JK was an elite defender and rebounder, he'd play more. If he was a better shooter, he'd play more. If he was a better passer, he'd play more. Yes. My point is that he should have been playing more than he did, despite his flaws. NOT because he's so good. Because our other options are, and have been for years, worse.

Kerr is also very public about his criticism of some and not very public at all about others. He's also quick to pull the rope a certain type of player for the same mistakes a different player type makes. bigs vs guards, as the prime example. Defense is another great example. On this roster, JK is not the best defender, but he's not the worst. In many situations, he is our best on-ball defender, especially against bigger guards/wings. In many other situations, he's lost off-ball and transition. Though he's a very different player on that end, I'd say he's similar to Podz; another player that has glaring weaknesses and impressive strength on D. One has been LOCKED IN to 30+ minutes since his 2nd month in the league while JK is still fielding DNP-CDs. I can't imagine how hard it would be to sit on the sidelines and see that, especially when there are hundreds of millions on the line.

There are common workplace dynamics in all of these situations. If you were watching a younger and less talented co-worker keep getting promoted while getting your opportunities you'd probably have a reaction, especially after 4 years. I think most people agree that it's best for both parties to separate. Since this is sports, I'm hoping against logic that this isn't' beyond repair and both can get on the same page.

How do you say in one breath that Lamb was slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued and then say the options were worse a few paragraphs down?

There's literally no other options other than Pat Spencer for Podz. So now you're in favor of playing Anthony Lamb (Spencer) over JK (Podz)? Your arguments are all over the place.

Again the NBA hell sports in general is different than your common workplace.

As I said, Lamb was SLIGHTLY better, in those regular season games, at the things Kerr wanted. JK had the chance to get better, that season, AT THOSE EXACT THINGS, but didn't. Maybe because he is just bad at a basketball, maybe because he didn't get the required minutes. When Lamb failed in the playoffs because those minutes did not lead to improvement and were the epitome of fool's gold, everyone on this board, you included, was not surprised. I may have that wrong and you supported playing Lamb over JK, I really don't remember. If so, I think that was a huge mistake and was a massive step back in the development curve for JK. It was the same thing for Moody with Jerome being the 3rd guard in quite a few lineups while MM rode the bench.

If you think there are no options to Podz except Pat Spencer, you must think Podz is a pg. He is not, at least, not to me. The option has been, and will continue to be, buddy hield and moody. Which doesn't mean I want Podz to lose his minutes or get traded. In fact, podz does enough to earn most of the minutes he gets and the rope that Kerr affords him during the stretches, sometimes very long stretches, when he struggles.

If moody and JK got that same level of confidence from their HOF coach, who knows? I think half the board thinks Moody was held back while JK is just not getting the message. I think if both knew they had a 15-30 minute role, every night, like most young players do, they would have done better to secure the top end of that range. Maybe not, but the uncertainty could not have helped.

[vvoland]

Why are the Warriors mentioned as a possible destination in a S&T of Malcolm Brogdon? Doing so would hard cap them at the 1st apron, and I see no real way for that to happen. I think some other teams on that list have the same issue.

Washington is willing to do a S&T, that doesn't mean there has to be a S&T.

Brogdon is a FA. Moving him to the Warriors would absolutely require a S&T.

Why wouldn't they warriors just sign brogdon, if he's a FA? I doubt he gets much more than the vet min and I don't think Was needs him back?

[Onus]

Leaving after 4 years of the coach trying to shoehorn into his idea of what you need to be isn't soft. It may be wrong, stubborn, etc. but it's not soft. We may just have different definitions of that word and I'd rather not argue semantics. Let's just leave it.

Weird to see you defend the lamb decision. It was wrong then, it is wrong now. He was bad but slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued. It was obvious Lamb would have no shot to contribute come playoff time and our hopes rested on development from JK and Moody. Instead, it was a year wasted and we KNEW we wouldn't be able to bring either back if they actually played ok (e.g. jerome). We still gave lamb and jerome minutes that needed to got to JK and Moody, that season, for impact THAT SEASON. At the very least, we'd all have more clarity about who those 2 players are.

It was "public" in that it was loud, in front of the team, and meant to make a point. Yes, buddy's minutes fluctuated. DNP-CDs, however, were only on the menu for TJD, Gui, Spencer, and JK. One of those things is not like the other.

Kerr has said a lot. Like, A LOT. Sure, if JK was an elite defender and rebounder, he'd play more. If he was a better shooter, he'd play more. If he was a better passer, he'd play more. Yes. My point is that he should have been playing more than he did, despite his flaws. NOT because he's so good. Because our other options are, and have been for years, worse.

Kerr is also very public about his criticism of some and not very public at all about others. He's also quick to pull the rope a certain type of player for the same mistakes a different player type makes. bigs vs guards, as the prime example. Defense is another great example. On this roster, JK is not the best defender, but he's not the worst. In many situations, he is our best on-ball defender, especially against bigger guards/wings. In many other situations, he's lost off-ball and transition. Though he's a very different player on that end, I'd say he's similar to Podz; another player that has glaring weaknesses and impressive strength on D. One has been LOCKED IN to 30+ minutes since his 2nd month in the league while JK is still fielding DNP-CDs. I can't imagine how hard it would be to sit on the sidelines and see that, especially when there are hundreds of millions on the line.

There are common workplace dynamics in all of these situations. If you were watching a younger and less talented co-worker keep getting promoted while getting your opportunities you'd probably have a reaction, especially after 4 years. I think most people agree that it's best for both parties to separate. Since this is sports, I'm hoping against logic that this isn't' beyond repair and both can get on the same page.

How do you say in one breath that Lamb was slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued and then say the options were worse a few paragraphs down?

There's literally no other options other than Pat Spencer for Podz. So now you're in favor of playing Anthony Lamb (Spencer) over JK (Podz)? Your arguments are all over the place.

Again the NBA hell sports in general is different than your common workplace.

As I said, Lamb was SLIGHTLY better, in those regular season games, at the things Kerr wanted. JK had the chance to get better, that season, AT THOSE EXACT THINGS, but didn't. Maybe because he is just bad at a basketball, maybe because he didn't get the required minutes. When Lamb failed in the playoffs because those minutes did not lead to improvement and were the epitome of fool's gold, everyone on this board, you included, was not surprised. I may have that wrong and you supported playing Lamb over JK, I really don't remember. If so, I think that was a huge mistake and was a massive step back in the development curve for JK. It was the same thing for Moody with Jerome being the 3rd guard in quite a few lineups while MM rode the bench.

If you think there are no options to Podz except Pat Spencer, you must think Podz is a pg. He is not, at least, not to me. The option has been, and will continue to be, buddy hield and moody. Which doesn't mean I want Podz to lose his minutes or get traded. In fact, podz does enough to earn most of the minutes he gets and the rope that Kerr affords him during the stretches, sometimes very long stretches, when he struggles.

If moody and JK got that same level of confidence from their HOF coach, who knows? I think half the board thinks Moody was held back while JK is just not getting the message. I think if both knew they had a 15-30 minute role, every night, like most young players do, they would have done better to secure the top end of that range. Maybe not, but the uncertainty could not have helped.

Do you see another pg on the team other than Curry?

Everyone knows who Moody is as a player. Most people know who JK is as a player.

[AirP.]

All of that would be true if the assumption that he doesn't optimize a team was also true. Especially, Curry, as you relentlessly suggest JK wants to be the #1 option and to dominate over Steph because you saw him look off curry and jack a bunch of bad shots. I don't disagree with the second half of that statement, just the first.

As the lineup data consistently shows, Steph plays better with JK on the court, than off. Not surprisingly, almost all of the benefit comes on the offensive end. This is with very limited run in that role (more the 3x the minutes without steph than with, this season), his worst shooting season, and a lack of shooters around them. I didn't look up Steph's individual numbers with and w/o JK but I care far less about that than I do about the team. That said, I doubt Steph's offense declines with JK on the court if the team's offense is substantially better.

If this is really true, why doesn't Kuminga play? Do you believe Kerr who has won multiple championships as a coach and as a player is actively trying to make the team worse or quite possibly he understands what it takes to win, and maybe part of that reasoning would be players playing their roles and if they don't, you really don't have control of your team?

Again, I agree he may never reach his ceiling, or even approach it. I will continue to balk at the idea that trading him for a rookie, or an unproven 2nd year player that's actually OLDER than jk, is a good idea. Keeping him at 15-20M/yr seems like a very low risk, high reward bet.

I'm ok with around 20mil a year for Kuminga, I don't think Kuminga will be happy even if he takes it, he was offered 30 mil last year and wanted 35, what makes you think he'll be happy with 20 mil in GS, I think you'd be looking at nearly the same thing as the previous 4 years except spending more money to do it.

[vvoland]

How do you say in one breath that Lamb was slightly better than JK at the things Kerr valued and then say the options were worse a few paragraphs down?

There's literally no other options other than Pat Spencer for Podz. So now you're in favor of playing Anthony Lamb (Spencer) over JK (Podz)? Your arguments are all over the place.

Again the NBA hell sports in general is different than your common workplace.

As I said, Lamb was SLIGHTLY better, in those regular season games, at the things Kerr wanted. JK had the chance to get better, that season, AT THOSE EXACT THINGS, but didn't. Maybe because he is just bad at a basketball, maybe because he didn't get the required minutes. When Lamb failed in the playoffs because those minutes did not lead to improvement and were the epitome of fool's gold, everyone on this board, you included, was not surprised. I may have that wrong and you supported playing Lamb over JK, I really don't remember. If so, I think that was a huge mistake and was a massive step back in the development curve for JK. It was the same thing for Moody with Jerome being the 3rd guard in quite a few lineups while MM rode the bench.

If you think there are no options to Podz except Pat Spencer, you must think Podz is a pg. He is not, at least, not to me. The option has been, and will continue to be, buddy hield and moody. Which doesn't mean I want Podz to lose his minutes or get traded. In fact, podz does enough to earn most of the minutes he gets and the rope that Kerr affords him during the stretches, sometimes very long stretches, when he struggles.

If moody and JK got that same level of confidence from their HOF coach, who knows? I think half the board thinks Moody was held back while JK is just not getting the message. I think if both knew they had a 15-30 minute role, every night, like most young players do, they would have done better to secure the top end of that range. Maybe not, but the uncertainty could not have helped.

Do you see another pg on the team other than Curry?

Everyone knows who Moody is as a player. Most people know who JK is as a player.

Just because we don't have another PG on the roster doesn't make Podz one. Dray is more of pg than Podz. Again, personal definitions and all that, but considering how much he plays next to our actual PG and how much he struggles when playing point, in my book, Podz is not a pg. He's just short and a decent passer. We don't have many of those.

I think Moody is a starting level wing on a good playoff team. 5th starter, sure, but a starter. I don't think most of this board, or even Steve Kerr agree with that. Not sure Kerr agrees with his own coaching staff or FO on that, either. Nothing wrong with that, btw. Disagreement can often lead to the best outcomes. If done well. the 40+ pages of JK, just in that thread alone, says enough about how people see JK, though I wouldn't mind a poll to see what the silent majority thinks of JK, both here and elsewhere. Maybe I'll set one up.

Thanks for engaging on this with patience and respect. We've probably beaten this into the ground by now and we should move on or, at least, keep it to the JK thread. I take full responsibility, just to be clear.

[vvoland]

All of that would be true if the assumption that he doesn't optimize a team was also true. Especially, Curry, as you relentlessly suggest JK wants to be the #1 option and to dominate over Steph because you saw him look off curry and jack a bunch of bad shots. I don't disagree with the second half of that statement, just the first.

As the lineup data consistently shows, Steph plays better with JK on the court, than off. Not surprisingly, almost all of the benefit comes on the offensive end. This is with very limited run in that role (more the 3x the minutes without steph than with, this season), his worst shooting season, and a lack of shooters around them. I didn't look up Steph's individual numbers with and w/o JK but I care far less about that than I do about the team. That said, I doubt Steph's offense declines with JK on the court if the team's offense is substantially better.

If this is really true, why doesn't Kuminga play? Do you believe Kerr who has won multiple championships as a coach and as a player is actively trying to make the team worse or quite possibly he understands what it takes to win, and maybe part of that reasoning would be players playing their roles and if they don't, you really don't have control of your team?

Again, I agree he may never reach his ceiling, or even approach it. I will continue to balk at the idea that trading him for a rookie, or an unproven 2nd year player that's actually OLDER than jk, is a good idea. Keeping him at 15-20M/yr seems like a very low risk, high reward bet.

I'm ok with around 20mil a year for Kuminga, I don't think Kuminga will be even if he takes it, he was offered 30 mil last year and wanted 35, what makes you think he'll be happy with 20 mil in GS, I think you'd be looking at nearly the same thing as the previous 4 years except spending more money to do it.

I've been trying to figure this out since anthony lamb. I don't think it's 'personal' because moody often gets the exact same treatment. Kerr has publicly admitted being wrong about benching both of them in games we lost AND for going away from them for multiple stretches. He's 'promised' them starting spots before yanking it back in a handful of games. I love steve kerr and was one of the few on this board that didn't want him fired last season because of how he handled the Klay situation. He's a great coach but he has obvious blind spots.

Netrating is just one of many data points. I can't imagine the level of data Kerr has access to, if he chooses to go that route. I also can't imagine how much film he watches, of games, practices, etc. I don't think he's refusing to play his best players, or holding the team back over some personal issues, or stylistic integrity or whatever. Sometimes, people just value different things and while the lineup data is very convincing to me, Steve has other, probably even more convincing arguments. That said, I don't think even Kerr would trade JK for a rookie guard OR an unproven 2nd year player.

Keon Ellis? Yes, kerr would drive to sacto with JK in the trunk. At least, I think so. The fact that Mike Brown, someone that prized defense and shooting, didn't play him much after coming to Sac from GSW and being heavily influenced by Kerr, is puzzling.

[vvoland]

let's say we sign dame to the 15th roster spot on a 2yr, vet min deal. If he spends the entire season injured, can we get that roster spot back (for a 2-way, for example) or does he occupy it for the full year?

[Onus]

As I said, Lamb was SLIGHTLY better, in those regular season games, at the things Kerr wanted. JK had the chance to get better, that season, AT THOSE EXACT THINGS, but didn't. Maybe because he is just bad at a basketball, maybe because he didn't get the required minutes. When Lamb failed in the playoffs because those minutes did not lead to improvement and were the epitome of fool's gold, everyone on this board, you included, was not surprised. I may have that wrong and you supported playing Lamb over JK, I really don't remember. If so, I think that was a huge mistake and was a massive step back in the development curve for JK. It was the same thing for Moody with Jerome being the 3rd guard in quite a few lineups while MM rode the bench.

If you think there are no options to Podz except Pat Spencer, you must think Podz is a pg. He is not, at least, not to me. The option has been, and will continue to be, buddy hield and moody. Which doesn't mean I want Podz to lose his minutes or get traded. In fact, podz does enough to earn most of the minutes he gets and the rope that Kerr affords him during the stretches, sometimes very long stretches, when he struggles.

If moody and JK got that same level of confidence from their HOF coach, who knows? I think half the board thinks Moody was held back while JK is just not getting the message. I think if both knew they had a 15-30 minute role, every night, like most young players do, they would have done better to secure the top end of that range. Maybe not, but the uncertainty could not have helped.

Do you see another pg on the team other than Curry?

Everyone knows who Moody is as a player. Most people know who JK is as a player.

Just because we don't have another PG on the roster doesn't make Podz one. Dray is more of pg than Podz. Again, personal definitions and all that, but considering how much he plays next to our actual PG and how much he struggles when playing point, in my book, Podz is not a pg. He's just short and a decent passer. We don't have many of those.

I think Moody is a starting level wing on a good playoff team. 5th starter, sure, but a starter. I don't think most of this board, or even Steve Kerr agree with that. Not sure Kerr agrees with his own coaching staff or FO on that, either. Nothing wrong with that, btw. Disagreement can often lead to the best outcomes. If done well. the 40+ pages of JK, just in that thread alone, says enough about how people see JK, though I wouldn't mind a poll to see what the silent majority thinks of JK, both here and elsewhere. Maybe I'll set one up.

Thanks for engaging on this with patience and respect. We've probably beaten this into the ground by now and we should move on or, at least, keep it to the JK thread. I take full responsibility, just to be clear.

Podz is not a real pg, but he's the closest facsimile of a pg that we have. He's the only guard on our team that can dribble and get into the lane (not that he can do anything once he gets there), pass and make decisions and shoot on the team other than Curry. Moody can't dribble or really make decisions, GP2 can't really dribble or shoot, Buddy can't dribble or make decisions.

[vvoland]

Do you see another pg on the team other than Curry?

Everyone knows who Moody is as a player. Most people know who JK is as a player.

Just because we don't have another PG on the roster doesn't make Podz one. Dray is more of pg than Podz. Again, personal definitions and all that, but considering how much he plays next to our actual PG and how much he struggles when playing point, in my book, Podz is not a pg. He's just short and a decent passer. We don't have many of those.

I think Moody is a starting level wing on a good playoff team. 5th starter, sure, but a starter. I don't think most of this board, or even Steve Kerr agree with that. Not sure Kerr agrees with his own coaching staff or FO on that, either. Nothing wrong with that, btw. Disagreement can often lead to the best outcomes. If done well. the 40+ pages of JK, just in that thread alone, says enough about how people see JK, though I wouldn't mind a poll to see what the silent majority thinks of JK, both here and elsewhere. Maybe I'll set one up.

Thanks for engaging on this with patience and respect. We've probably beaten this into the ground by now and we should move on or, at least, keep it to the JK thread. I take full responsibility, just to be clear.

Podz is not a real pg, but he's the closest facsimile of a pg that we have. He's the only guard on our team that can dribble and get into the lane (not that he can do anything once he gets there), pass and make decisions and shoot on the team other than Curry. Moody can't dribble or really make decisions, GP2 can't really dribble or shoot, Buddy can't dribble or make decisions.

That's actually another reason I value dray and jk more than the majority of the board. Dray is, essentially, our backup pg and jk is the only player not name Curry that can only only dribble past his defender, but also not vomit all over themselves when they get inside the 3pt line. Low bar? Yes.

Same reason I didn't mind cp3 here and wouldn't mind it for next season. Kerr would probably make it regret it, tbh

[NeoWarriors]

According to the Stein line Warriors are showing interest in Anthony Melton. I would be happy picking him up again and adding Al Horford. As long as he's physically ready.

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