Kuminga sign and trade Bulls interest

[DropStep]

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

Obviously I want talented free agents all the time. But the only time I would knowingly overpay is for a final piece or two, yes. It's a high-leverage play at that point. I guess I would also consider it for a foundational first piece that I thought was perfect to build the whole thing around, too, but those don't happen often. Minor upgrades for the sake of a mild boost to the total NBA2K score of a middling, at best, roster? Nope. Have to be careful on the costs there. Those can blow entire cap sheets out of whack, and what the Warriors and Kuminga have reportedly wanted qualifies for me. Toronto has built most of their team that way, and they now have a top ten-ish most expensive roster filled mostly with overpriced meh mid-tier guys that likely isn't going anywhere, and it will be really hard to do anything about it.

[WindyCityBorn]

I can’t until this guy is off the market. I just don’t see it with him.

[Axl Rose]

I can’t until this guy is off the market. I just don’t see it with him.

Unless he is signing for 20-25m per then keep him on the market If Warriors give him 30m then that hurts us with Giddey.

[Am2626]

People on this board talk about the Bulls like they are loaded. They are a perpetual 38 win team. Kuminga is literally better than everyone on this list except Giddey. Isn't the goal to acquire good players? Terry, Patrick and Phillips have had years of development. Time to upgrade the roster.

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith


https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

[ghostinthepost1]

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith


https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

I'd do that trade in a heart beat but the Warriors would need to include additional salary to match unless the Bulls are signing Kuminga to something like $40 mill/year.

[Tetlak]

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith


https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

Unrealistic trade if ive ever seen one.

[Red8911]

GSW thought they were going to easily trade Kuminga and get a great deal/player out of it too. They even acted like they wanted to re sign him just to raise his trade value lol.

Lil did they know no one is really dying to add Kuminga, not at his price nor does anyone want to give up anything valuable to sign/trade for him.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith


https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

I didn’t read the article but I’m assuming it’s picks in 2045 and 2047? I don’t see why we couldn’t resign Coby if we wanted to. We have a ton of space clearing next year. Now if that’s a good idea, totally different discussion.

Gun to my head, I’d take Coby over Kuminga, if similar contracts ($30M AAV).

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

The point right now is to get better players on value contracts who fit with what we are trying to build. The assets we would have to give in a trade, plus the dollars and cap space to sign Kuminga, appear to be a bad value for the (likely limited) upgrades he would bring. The only time where I would knowingly execute a greatly non-value transaction of this size is for the final piece(s) to a contender. Kuminga is not that, and neither are we. Is he a better player in a vacuum than the guy he would be replacing? Likely so, but that is a different question than does he make sense asset-wise, time-wise, and fit-wise. If the price is too high then it is too high, unless waiting makes it come down, which is what we are doing. If we spend lots of assets on small to medium upgrades, we won't have enough assets to make other upgrades later.

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith


https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

Assuming the picks are lightly protected, I’d be all over this. In fact I would, and might even prefer, to trade Coby for the picks alone. Let some other team pay Kuminga 30M AAV.

If Kuminga could be had for 25M, then I’d take a flier despite the obvious roster fit issues.

[dougthonus]

I'd do that trade in a heart beat but the Warriors would need to include additional salary to match unless the Bulls are signing Kuminga to something like $40 mill/year.

Coby and Smith combine to make about 22M. You could sign Kuminga to just about any reasonable number and the trade will work.

[jnrjr79]

The only time you would acquire a talented free agent is if he's rhe final piece on the roster?

Okay.

I think the Bulls are still in the talent acquisition stage of team building. I think having the most talent, provided it isn't on bad contracts, is what's important. Imo, the Bulls have 2-3 players with high potential (Noa, Matas, Giddey), a quality starter level guys (Coby), and aging vet (Vuc) and a lot of role players. In this scenario i think reaching for talent in the draft and in free agency makes the most sense. I don't think having Kuminga realistically stunts anyone's development.

The only guys even rumored to be offered to him are Vuc and Ayo who I don't really consider high priority to keep. Ppl keep exaggerating the price - Sacramento is offering salary filler and a rookie who never saw the floor. Given what GS needs, reliable vets, I think we can trump that offer.

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith


https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

Assuming the picks are lightly protected, I’d be all over this. In fact I would, and might even prefer, to trade Coby for the picks alone. Let some other team pay Kuminga 30M AAV.

Coby works straight-up, though, on a $25M deal for Kuminga.
If Kuminga could be had for 25M, then I’d take a flier despite the obvious roster fit issues.

The deal doesn't work with Smith in it. Due to the BYC rule, Kuminga's salary only counts as $12.5M for the team receiving him (assuming a $25M new contract). You'd have to sign Kuminga to like $40M/year to make this work, which, obviously, no.

[dougthonus]

The deal doesn't work with Smith in it. Due to the BYC rule, Kuminga's salary only counts as $12.5M for the team receiving him (assuming a $25M new contract). You'd have to sign Kuminga to like $40M/year to make this work, which, obviously, no.

He counts as half to the team sending him, not the team receiving him.

The Warriors could trade Coby for Kuminga (matching 12.5M), and take Jalen Smith into their MLE. Not sure if they like Hield, but they could also expand the trade to throw us Hield into our TPE if they don't want him and keep their MLE or we could add back someone else.

[jnrjr79]

The deal doesn't work with Smith in it. Due to the BYC rule, Kuminga's salary only counts as $12.5M for the team receiving him (assuming a $25M new contract). You'd have to sign Kuminga to like $40M/year to make this work, which, obviously, no.

He counts as half to the team sending him, not the team receiving him.

The Warriors could trade Coby for Kuminga (matching 12.5M), and take Jalen Smith into their MLE.

Yeah, my point was re: the Warriors receiving, not the Bulls sending. Hadn't thought about using an exception to take Smith. Does that get the Warriors out of their matching constraints?

EDIT: I'm Googling and this indeed seems to be a feature of the new CBA.

[dougthonus]

The deal doesn't work with Smith in it. Due to the BYC rule, Kuminga's salary only counts as $12.5M for the team receiving him (assuming a $25M new contract). You'd have to sign Kuminga to like $40M/year to make this work, which, obviously, no.

He counts as half to the team sending him, not the team receiving him.

The Warriors could trade Coby for Kuminga (matching 12.5M), and take Jalen Smith into their MLE.

Yeah, my point was re: the Warriors receiving, not the Bulls sending. Hadn't thought about using an exception to take Smith. Does that get the Warriors out of their matching constraints?

EDIT: I'm Googling and this indeed seems to be a feature of the new CBA.

Also, if they don't want to use the MLE, trade matching rules are Salary + 7.5M. So if the Bulls pay Kuminga ~29M in year 1, they could match Coby + Smith. (Kuminga would count as 14.5M+7.5M clears the hurdle). They could toss us a vet min guy (they don't really have any higher salaries they'd likely move if they want to keep Hield) whom we could take into our TPE or one of our exceptions, and then that would make the 7.5M rule able to push Kuminga's salary down to probably 24M AAV if you structure it descending and to max value in the 1st year which would probably be ~26M then.

The rule changes that allow you to use the exceptions to take players as trades vs just signings definitely opens up a lot more options than there were previously.

[kodo]

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

The article says this is from "youtuber blah blah" which already makes me roll my eyes.

The framework of the deal seems the exact opposite of everything we've heard from reliable sources about the situation, like Zach Lowe. The Warriors want at least a 1st round pick for Kuminga, this deal has them giving up 2 picks and getting none in return.

The closest they've got to a deal which they refused was getting Devin Carter a mid 1st in the last draft.
Nothing says the Warriors are interested in trading multiple future 1sts for a below star level shooter (Coby).

And Coby isn't going to be a great asset for them because of the same reasons we are looking to move him, he's either gone in 1 year or getting a massive contract increase. His new contract is likely to be just as big as Kuminga's ($30M+) which is the entire reason they're trading Kuminga.

[jnrjr79]

He counts as half to the team sending him, not the team receiving him.

The Warriors could trade Coby for Kuminga (matching 12.5M), and take Jalen Smith into their MLE.

Yeah, my point was re: the Warriors receiving, not the Bulls sending. Hadn't thought about using an exception to take Smith. Does that get the Warriors out of their matching constraints?

EDIT: I'm Googling and this indeed seems to be a feature of the new CBA.

Also, if they don't want to use the MLE, trade matching rules are Salary + 7.5M. So if the Bulls pay Kuminga ~29M in year 1, they could match Coby + Smith. (Kuminga would count as 14.5M+7.5M clears the hurdle). They could toss us a vet min guy (they don't really have any higher salaries they'd likely move if they want to keep Hield) whom we could take into our TPE or one of our exceptions, and then that would make the 7.5M rule able to push Kuminga's salary down to probably 24M AAV if you structure it descending and to max value in the 1st year which would probably be ~26M then.

The rule changes that allow you to use the exceptions to take players as trades vs just signings definitely opens up a lot more options than there were previously.

I am not much of a Kuminga guy, but with 2 1sts, you could talk me into something like this.

[jnrjr79]

What do people think of the trade proposal in this article? Coby White will be a UFA next year and the Bulls may not be able to resign him and would lose him for nothing. Getting 2 first round picks would be very valuable for the Bulls.

GSW: Sign and trade Kuminga and 2 first round picks

Bulls: Trade Coby White and Jalen Smith

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/golden-state-warriors/news/warriors-could-cut-ties-kuminga-acquire-20-ppg-scorer-plus-former-tenth-pick/c463ebbae5c743422ae0fbce

The article says this is from "youtuber blah blah" which already makes me roll my eyes.

The framework of the deal seems the exact opposite of everything we've heard from reliable sources about the situation, like Zach Lowe. The Warriors want at least a 1st round pick for Kuminga, this deal has them giving up 2 picks and getting none in return.

The closest they've got to a deal which they refused was getting Devin Carter a mid 1st in the last draft.
Nothing says the Warriors are interested in trading multiple future 1sts for a below star level shooter (Coby).

And Coby isn't going to be a great asset for them because of the same reasons we are looking to move him, he's either gone in 1 year or getting a massive contract increase. His new contract is likely to be just as big as Kuminga's ($30M+) which is the entire reason they're trading Kuminga.

The Warriors can want what they want, but I doubt any team has much appetite for paying a 1st for the pleasure of giving Kuminga a contract at a price he'd sign.

[dougthonus]

I am not much of a Kuminga guy, but with 2 1sts, you could talk me into something like this.

I can't imagine there is any chance at all this is even a real rumor. Sounds like just something a random person made up. This makes no sense for GS.

[Jvaughn]

I am not much of a Kuminga guy, but with 2 1sts, you could talk me into something like this.

I can't imagine there is any chance at all this is even a real rumor. Sounds like just something a random person made up. This makes no sense for GS.

Yeah definitely. The Warriors could literally just let him walk. He's a FA, they don't need to attach assets to trade him. Especially not for a player of Coby's caliber.

[dougthonus]

I am not much of a Kuminga guy, but with 2 1sts, you could talk me into something like this.

I can't imagine there is any chance at all this is even a real rumor. Sounds like just something a random person made up. This makes no sense for GS.

Yeah definitely. The Warriors could literally just let him walk. He's a FA, they don't need to attach assets to trade him. Especially not for a player of Coby's caliber.

I think it would really be "we don't care about Kuminga and he's a salary matcher", and they'd be paying 2 1sts for Coby/Jalen which isn't entirely insane, but probably not something they'd do.