Around the NBA (Part Three)

[TimberKat]

I will repeat it for you one more time, then you can go back and look up what I was saying last year to know I am have always been consistent. You don’t make the Gobert trade for Ant, you did for KAT. To maximize the KAT window and try to speed up the development of Ant.

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they didn't make the trade for Ant if you are also arguing they made it to speed up Ant's development.

Most of us agree it was made to help Ant. You've made it abundantly clear you don't agree.

We should had kept Towns. However, I don't think his trade had anything to do with new CBA vs Old, results of Gobert trade, or above/below Apron. It is purely we value Randle+DDV more and management though Naz could step up. I think they were wrong. We could had kept the core of Gobert, Towns, Ant, and JMcD then do sign trade for both Naz and NAW this summer to stay under 2nd apron. I would have zero problem with that.

[winforlose]

I will repeat it for you one more time, then you can go back and look up what I was saying last year to know I am have always been consistent. You don’t make the Gobert trade for Ant, you did for KAT. To maximize the KAT window and try to speed up the development of Ant.

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they didn't make the trade for Ant if you are also arguing they made it to speed up Ant's development.

Most of us agree it was made to help Ant. You've made it abundantly clear you don't agree.

We should had kept Towns. However, I don't think his trade had anything to do with new CBA vs Old, results of Gobert trade, or above/below Apron. It is purely we value Randle+DDV more and management though Naz could step up. I think they were wrong. We could had kept the core of Gobert, Towns, Ant, and JMcD then do sign trade for both Naz and NAW this summer to stay under 2nd apron. I would have zero problem with that.

My understanding was that the plan was to let Randle expire or trade him. We still could. He had a strong first two series in the playoffs which might delay things, but I don’t see him as a good long term fit with our roster. DDV was another miss from TC. He missed on Moore, so far he missed on Dilly, and now he missed on DDV to play PG. DDV it turns out is one of the Naz type guys who needs heavy minutes to bring out his A game. TC made sure to sabotage last season by not acquiring another PG or C. He is well on his way to ruining this one with a shallow PG depth again. I didn’t oppose moving KAT in principle, but I hated the return. We sold way short and we overpay on every trade in which we seek to acquire talent. Just like trading 31 for bad 2nds and cash. If you consider Minott a bust (he is no longer on the team so we must,) then that means the 2022 draft was a disaster, (Moore and Minott bust and Kessler develops well elsewhere,) and if Miller fails then 2023 is gonna look bad as well. TC also dead ended the Dlo salary slot. I get why people like him, but I have to wonder if he wasn’t handed a contender with Ant, Jaden, Naz, and Karl, would he be anything other than a disgrace at this point?

[Klomp]

I will repeat it for you one more time, then you can go back and look up what I was saying last year to know I am have always been consistent. You don’t make the Gobert trade for Ant, you did for KAT. To maximize the KAT window and try to speed up the development of Ant.

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they didn't make the trade for Ant if you are also arguing they made it to speed up Ant's development.

Most of us agree it was made to help Ant. You've made it abundantly clear you don't agree.

We should had kept Towns. However, I don't think his trade had anything to do with new CBA vs Old, results of Gobert trade, or above/below Apron. It is purely we value Randle+DDV more and management though Naz could step up. I think they were wrong. We could had kept the core of Gobert, Towns, Ant, and JMcD then do sign trade for both Naz and NAW this summer to stay under 2nd apron. I would have zero problem with that.

So basically it comes down to.....

Towns 53,142,264 / 57,078,728 / 61,015,192 (PO)

OR

Randle 30,864,198 / 33,333,333 / 35,802,469 (PO)
Reid 21,551,724 / 23,275,862 / 25,000,000 / 26,724,138 / 28,448,276
DiVincenzo 11,990,000 / 12,535,000

...and you choose the first of the two options for 2025-26 and beyond? Interesting.

[Klomp]

My understanding was that the plan was to let Randle expire or trade him. We still could.

I think this has been the biggest misconception of the entire trade. Everyone heard "flexibility" and just assumed it meant Randle would be traded or leave in free agency. Flexibility is always about options and not trapping yourselves into a corner where the only way out is to do what the Phoenix Suns are doing. Keeping Randle was always on the table as an option, especially considering he had Finch in his corner.

[winforlose]

My understanding was that the plan was to let Randle expire or trade him. We still could.

I think this has been the biggest misconception of the entire trade. Everyone heard "flexibility" and just assumed it meant Randle would be traded or leave in free agency. Flexibility is always about options and not trapping yourselves into a corner where the only way out is to do what the Phoenix Suns are doing. Keeping Randle was always on the table as an option, especially considering he had Finch in his corner.

I cannot remember the exact number off hand so bare with me, but we have 31 tied up in Randle (approximately,) and about 25 tied up in Naz (approximately,) which puts us at 57 invested in PF right now. Jaden has also shown a talent for it. By contrast we have 10 mil in Mike, 6.6 (give or take a couple hundred K,) and not much else tied to the PG. We need to fix the weakness and can only afford to move DDV or Randle. I would trade DDV for White right now if I could. I truly believe we are a good PG and a coaching upgrade away from a chip. We should have won the last 2 but for poor coaching and poor roster balance in 24/25.

[WolfAddict]

I 100% agree with this

I truly believe we are a good PG and a coaching upgrade away from a chip

However, the below I think is a little bit of putting the cart before the horse - Losing the last 2 (WCFs) is a learning experience for the team that can't be discounted and will benefit the core (Ant, Jaden etc.) in the long run. Playoffs are so different to regular seasons and experiencing that (also the sting of the losses so close to the "big dance") is something they can learn from

We should have won the last 2 but for poor coaching and poor roster balance in 24/25.

For clarity, PG is my biggest concern and think it will be our downfall, again. Coaching a very close second.

[winforlose]

I 100% agree with this

I truly believe we are a good PG and a coaching upgrade away from a chip

However, the below I think is a little bit of putting the cart before the horse - Losing the last 2 (WCFs) is a learning experience for the team that can't be discounted and will benefit the core (Ant, Jaden etc.) in the long run. Playoffs are so different to regular seasons and experiencing that (also the sting of the losses so close to the "big dance") is something they can learn from

We should have won the last 2 but for poor coaching and poor roster balance in 24/25.

For clarity, PG is my biggest concern and think it will be our downfall, again. Coaching a very close second.

I have heard this from multiple places and I cannot begin to remember them all, but one I remember clearly is Jim Pete talking about ease of offense for most players compared to Ant. Defenses so heavily load up on him, everything is hard for Ant. Add to it the contact he takes that goes uncalled, it is a lot. A solid PG would take so much load off Ant and make so much easier for him. Especially last season. I have said and will continue to say we are too talented to play this poorly. I would say we had one of if not the most disappointing actual performances of any team in the playoffs last season. We won bad games against bad teams, but we were easily top 3 or 4 in talent and I believe we win the championship if we get past the Thunder. The problem is, we don’t make it easy because we don’t have a scheme players can rely on. When everything is hard everything takes more energy and focus and players wear down. Finch has proven year after year he isn’t the game-plan guy. He isn’t the organized basketball guy. We have seen how far raw talent and poor leadership can take this team. But I fear it will hold us back from taking it the rest of the way. If we ever do win a chip with Finch it will be despite him, not because of him.

[WolfAddict]

I 100% agree with this

I truly believe we are a good PG and a coaching upgrade away from a chip

However, the below I think is a little bit of putting the cart before the horse - Losing the last 2 (WCFs) is a learning experience for the team that can't be discounted and will benefit the core (Ant, Jaden etc.) in the long run. Playoffs are so different to regular seasons and experiencing that (also the sting of the losses so close to the "big dance") is something they can learn from

We should have won the last 2 but for poor coaching and poor roster balance in 24/25.

For clarity, PG is my biggest concern and think it will be our downfall, again. Coaching a very close second.

I have heard this from multiple places and I cannot begin to remember them all, but one I remember clearly is Jim Pete talking about ease of offense for most players compared to Ant. Defenses so heavily load up on him, everything is hard for Ant. Add to it the contact he takes that goes uncalled, it is a lot. A solid PG would take so much load off Ant and make so much easier for him. Especially last season. I have said and will continue to say we are too talented to play this poorly. I would say we had one of if not the most disappointing actual performances of any team in the playoffs last season. We won bad games against bad teams, but we were easily top 3 or 4 in talent and I believe we win the championship if we get past the Thunder. The problem is, we don’t make it easy because we don’t have a scheme players can rely on. When everything is hard everything takes more energy and focus and players wear down. Finch has proven year after year he isn’t the game-plan guy. He isn’t the organized basketball guy. We have seen how far raw talent and poor leadership can take this team. But I fear it will hold us back from taking it the rest of the way. If we ever do win a chip with Finch it will be despite him, not because of him.

I agree, in part - I think we have very different views on whether or not the last season was a failure or not - The second time making the WCF, to me, is an amazing feat and completely proves the talent is there in most positions.

As for the coach, an example that I have is in the NRL (Rugby League) - Not sure if you saw or not but I support the Penrith Panthers here in Aus and we're currently battling for our 5th premiership (championship) in a row - Now go back to 2020 and we had a really good season - Got to the Grand Final and... blew it - There were calls to fire the coach as he'd never shown he could take that next step and win the big one (he'd been there before with a different team) - And as you can tell, the next 4 years were just glorious - 4 premierships, an absolute powerhouse of a team that broke all kinds of records. This is how I envisage Finch. Obviously it's not guaranteed, but I genuinely hold hope he can learn to adapt.

[winforlose]

I 100% agree with this


However, the below I think is a little bit of putting the cart before the horse - Losing the last 2 (WCFs) is a learning experience for the team that can't be discounted and will benefit the core (Ant, Jaden etc.) in the long run. Playoffs are so different to regular seasons and experiencing that (also the sting of the losses so close to the "big dance") is something they can learn from


For clarity, PG is my biggest concern and think it will be our downfall, again. Coaching a very close second.

I have heard this from multiple places and I cannot begin to remember them all, but one I remember clearly is Jim Pete talking about ease of offense for most players compared to Ant. Defenses so heavily load up on him, everything is hard for Ant. Add to it the contact he takes that goes uncalled, it is a lot. A solid PG would take so much load off Ant and make so much easier for him. Especially last season. I have said and will continue to say we are too talented to play this poorly. I would say we had one of if not the most disappointing actual performances of any team in the playoffs last season. We won bad games against bad teams, but we were easily top 3 or 4 in talent and I believe we win the championship if we get past the Thunder. The problem is, we don’t make it easy because we don’t have a scheme players can rely on. When everything is hard everything takes more energy and focus and players wear down. Finch has proven year after year he isn’t the game-plan guy. He isn’t the organized basketball guy. We have seen how far raw talent and poor leadership can take this team. But I fear it will hold us back from taking it the rest of the way. If we ever do win a chip with Finch it will be despite him, not because of him.

I agree, in part - I think we have very different views on whether or not the last season was a failure or not - The second time making the WCF, to me, is an amazing feat and completely proves the talent is there in most positions.

As for the coach, an example that I have is in the NRL (Rugby League) - Not sure if you saw or not but I support the Penrith Panthers here in Aus and we're currently battling for our 5th premiership (championship) in a row - Now go back to 2020 and we had a really good season - Got to the Grand Final and... blew it - There were calls to fire the coach as he'd never shown he could take that next step and win the big one (he'd been there before with a different team) - And as you can tell, the next 4 years were just glorious - 4 premierships, an absolute powerhouse of a team that broke all kinds of records. This is how I envisage Finch. Obviously it's not guaranteed, but I genuinely hold hope he can learn to adapt.

That would certainly be nice. I remember when Finch first arrived talking about organized chaos. To me it sounded pretty scary and bad, but I was open to it. Then I saw it in action and I was sure it was a phase he would grow out of. I mean you have so much talent on your roster, sooner or later you have to notice what does and does not work, right? But nope. Year after year of in performing offense, especially relative to the immense fire power on this team. I mean for god sake we don’t even run proper PNR for Rudy anymore. Jaden should be shooting 15 times per game. Everything is Ant initiating and expending so much energy. You can only watch someone blow it so many times before you realize they just are not the guy. For F**ks sake I started the faith in Finch thread believing he would figure it out. Now, I just don’t.

[WolfAddict]

That would certainly be nice. I remember when Finch first arrived talking about organized chaos. To me it sounded pretty scary and bad, but I was open to it. Then I saw it in action and I was sure it was a phase he would grow out of. I mean you have so much talent on your roster, sooner or later you have to notice what does and does not work, right? But nope. Year after year of in performing offense, especially relative to the immense fire power on this team. I mean for god sake we don’t even run proper PNR for Rudy anymore. Jaden should be shooting 15 times per game. Everything is Ant initiating and expending so much energy. You can only watch someone blow it so many times before you realize they just are not the guy. For F**ks sake I started the faith in Finch thread believing he would figure it out. Now, I just don’t.

Yeah I see where you're coming from brother I really do - Could just be my optimism, but I think coaching takes a step this coming season.

I don't mind Ant getting to his spots with his "moves" but I agree, I don't like seeing him initiate offence. He's fundamentally NOT a point and playing him as such is, I think, a product of not having a serviceable PG (love Mike, but the decline was already on when he came to us)

[KGdaBom]

Denver took them to 7 with one of the worst defenses in the league, a shallow bench, and an injured MPJ. Indy took them to 7 and they were gifted the first two series by serious injuries to their opponents. OKC was very beatable, we just didn’t have the coach or balanced roster to do it. We steamrolled other poorly constructed teams on route to losing to the first good team we faced.

Edit to add: I even said during the series that OKC is the first team that was should not expect to beat. The first team that we didn’t have a clear talent advantage over. Against a fairly even talent level, coaching, schemeing, and the margin of error all matter much more.

NEGATIVE NELLIE!
You hate Connelly and you hate Finch. You hate Gobert, DDV, and Randle. You basically hate the Minnesota Timberwolves.

LOL. What an Ad Hominem.

Criticisms don't make anyone less of a fan or supporter of anything. Blindly drinking the Kool Aid doesn't either fwiw.

OMG I called him a Negative Nellie. I stand by it. He's been the most negative poster on the board. If you agree with his negativity that is your choice. I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid. I'm just going by the fact that we have had our 2 most successful seasons in history behind the leadership of Connelly and Finch. The very two leaders that W4L despises.

[KGdaBom]

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they didn't make the trade for Ant if you are also arguing they made it to speed up Ant's development.

Most of us agree it was made to help Ant. You've made it abundantly clear you don't agree.

We should had kept Towns. However, I don't think his trade had anything to do with new CBA vs Old, results of Gobert trade, or above/below Apron. It is purely we value Randle+DDV more and management though Naz could step up. I think they were wrong. We could had kept the core of Gobert, Towns, Ant, and JMcD then do sign trade for both Naz and NAW this summer to stay under 2nd apron. I would have zero problem with that.

My understanding was that the plan was to let Randle expire or trade him. We still could. He had a strong first two series in the playoffs which might delay things, but I don’t see him as a good long term fit with our roster. DDV was another miss from TC. He missed on Moore, so far he missed on Dilly, and now he missed on DDV to play PG. DDV it turns out is one of the Naz type guys who needs heavy minutes to bring out his A game. TC made sure to sabotage last season by not acquiring another PG or C. He is well on his way to ruining this one with a shallow PG depth again. I didn’t oppose moving KAT in principle, but I hated the return. We sold way short and we overpay on every trade in which we seek to acquire talent. Just like trading 31 for bad 2nds and cash. If you consider Minott a bust (he is no longer on the team so we must,) then that means the 2022 draft was a disaster, (Moore and Minott bust and Kessler develops well elsewhere,) and if Miller fails then 2023 is gonna look bad as well. TC also dead ended the Dlo salary slot. I get why people like him, but I have to wonder if he wasn’t handed a contender with Ant, Jaden, Naz, and Karl, would he be anything other than a disgrace at this point?

You act like DDV was a miss. He had a very good season for us. True a bad playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean he won't play excellently for us in the future. He's the very floor spacer that you claim we need. Randle, DDV and Beringer were solid return for KAT.

[winforlose]

NEGATIVE NELLIE!
You hate Connelly and you hate Finch. You hate Gobert, DDV, and Randle. You basically hate the Minnesota Timberwolves.

LOL. What an Ad Hominem.

Criticisms don't make anyone less of a fan or supporter of anything. Blindly drinking the Kool Aid doesn't either fwiw.

OMG I called him a Negative Nellie. I stand by it. He's been the most negative poster on the board. If you agree with his negativity that is your choice. I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid. I'm just going by the fact that we have had our 2 most successful seasons in history behind the leadership of Connelly and Finch. The very two leaders that W4L despises.

You keep inventing words for me and about my views, which differ from my actual views. Go back and read a few posts back where I talk about how we should have won the last 2 chips. I keep saying and have been saying we are too talented to play this badly. I even explain why I think it is happening. I want to move on from TC because I think Rosas handed him a golden ticket and he keeps *****ng with it. I want to move on from Finch because he is not adjusting to make the players better. For instance not enough PNR for Rudy, not enough shooting from Jaden, too much on ball for Ant. Nothing is easy. Routine and scheme makes things easier, and Finch is the self proclaimed organized chaos coach.

[KGdaBom]

I have heard this from multiple places and I cannot begin to remember them all, but one I remember clearly is Jim Pete talking about ease of offense for most players compared to Ant. Defenses so heavily load up on him, everything is hard for Ant. Add to it the contact he takes that goes uncalled, it is a lot. A solid PG would take so much load off Ant and make so much easier for him. Especially last season. I have said and will continue to say we are too talented to play this poorly. I would say we had one of if not the most disappointing actual performances of any team in the playoffs last season. We won bad games against bad teams, but we were easily top 3 or 4 in talent and I believe we win the championship if we get past the Thunder. The problem is, we don’t make it easy because we don’t have a scheme players can rely on. When everything is hard everything takes more energy and focus and players wear down. Finch has proven year after year he isn’t the game-plan guy. He isn’t the organized basketball guy. We have seen how far raw talent and poor leadership can take this team. But I fear it will hold us back from taking it the rest of the way. If we ever do win a chip with Finch it will be despite him, not because of him.

I agree, in part - I think we have very different views on whether or not the last season was a failure or not - The second time making the WCF, to me, is an amazing feat and completely proves the talent is there in most positions.

As for the coach, an example that I have is in the NRL (Rugby League) - Not sure if you saw or not but I support the Penrith Panthers here in Aus and we're currently battling for our 5th premiership (championship) in a row - Now go back to 2020 and we had a really good season - Got to the Grand Final and... blew it - There were calls to fire the coach as he'd never shown he could take that next step and win the big one (he'd been there before with a different team) - And as you can tell, the next 4 years were just glorious - 4 premierships, an absolute powerhouse of a team that broke all kinds of records. This is how I envisage Finch. Obviously it's not guaranteed, but I genuinely hold hope he can learn to adapt.

That would certainly be nice. I remember when Finch first arrived talking about organized chaos. To me it sounded pretty scary and bad, but I was open to it. Then I saw it in action and I was sure it was a phase he would grow out of. I mean you have so much talent on your roster, sooner or later you have to notice what does and does not work, right? But nope. Year after year of in performing offense, especially relative to the immense fire power on this team. I mean for god sake we don’t even run proper PNR for Rudy anymore. Jaden should be shooting 15 times per game. Everything is Ant initiating and expending so much energy. You can only watch someone blow it so many times before you realize they just are not the guy. For F**ks sake I started the faith in Finch thread believing he would figure it out. Now, I just don’t.

I agree with you that better play from our PG position would greatly improve our team. I hate Ant pounding the ball looking for openings. I think we get better PG play this year from Dilly. Whatever our weaknesses are we have had our 2 most successful seasons in team history these past two seasons. 2 WCFs in a row. Our talent is very good, but our talent isn't dominant over the rest of the league like you choose to believe. I'm so glad you are not the GM or coach of our team.

[KGdaBom]

LOL. What an Ad Hominem.

Criticisms don't make anyone less of a fan or supporter of anything. Blindly drinking the Kool Aid doesn't either fwiw.

OMG I called him a Negative Nellie. I stand by it. He's been the most negative poster on the board. If you agree with his negativity that is your choice. I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid. I'm just going by the fact that we have had our 2 most successful seasons in history behind the leadership of Connelly and Finch. The very two leaders that W4L despises.

You keep inventing words for me and about my views, which differ from my actual views. Go back and read a few posts back where I talk about how we should have won the last 2 chips. I keep saying and have been saying we are too talented to play this badly. I even explain why I think it is happening. I want to move on from TC because I think Rosas handed him a golden ticket and he keeps *****ng with it. I want to move on from Finch because he is not adjusting to make the players better. For instance not enough PNR for Rudy, not enough shooting from Jaden, too much on ball for Ant. Nothing is easy. Routine and scheme makes things easier, and Finch is the self proclaimed organized chaos coach.

Saying we should have won the last two titles if Finch and Connelly hadn't **** up so much isn't positivity. It's MASSIVE negativity. These are the two most significant leaders of our team who brought us the most success in our history. Not loser clowns as you see them. We have not played so badly as is your stance. We've won four playoff series in the last two years after winning 2 playoff series in our entire history before these last two years. That is NOT playing so badly.

[winforlose]

I agree, in part - I think we have very different views on whether or not the last season was a failure or not - The second time making the WCF, to me, is an amazing feat and completely proves the talent is there in most positions.

As for the coach, an example that I have is in the NRL (Rugby League) - Not sure if you saw or not but I support the Penrith Panthers here in Aus and we're currently battling for our 5th premiership (championship) in a row - Now go back to 2020 and we had a really good season - Got to the Grand Final and... blew it - There were calls to fire the coach as he'd never shown he could take that next step and win the big one (he'd been there before with a different team) - And as you can tell, the next 4 years were just glorious - 4 premierships, an absolute powerhouse of a team that broke all kinds of records. This is how I envisage Finch. Obviously it's not guaranteed, but I genuinely hold hope he can learn to adapt.

That would certainly be nice. I remember when Finch first arrived talking about organized chaos. To me it sounded pretty scary and bad, but I was open to it. Then I saw it in action and I was sure it was a phase he would grow out of. I mean you have so much talent on your roster, sooner or later you have to notice what does and does not work, right? But nope. Year after year of in performing offense, especially relative to the immense fire power on this team. I mean for god sake we don’t even run proper PNR for Rudy anymore. Jaden should be shooting 15 times per game. Everything is Ant initiating and expending so much energy. You can only watch someone blow it so many times before you realize they just are not the guy. For F**ks sake I started the faith in Finch thread believing he would figure it out. Now, I just don’t.

I agree with you that better play from our PG position would greatly improve our team. I hate Ant pounding the ball looking for openings. I think we get better PG play this year from Dilly. Whatever our weaknesses are we have had our 2 most successful seasons in team history these past two seasons. 2 WCFs in a row. Our talent is very good, but our talent isn't dominant over the rest of the league like you choose to believe. I'm so glad you are not the GM or coach of our team.

Last season the East was an injured mess. So let’s just focus on the West.

Griz: without Wells they lacked on ball defense. They had coaching issues, identity issues, injury issues, and depth issues. They got destroyed in round 1 and I stipulate any team that faced that version of the Griz was moving on.

GSW: Size issues, depth issues, personnel issues (Kerr didn’t want to play Kuminga,) and ultimately they should have had their heads handed to them in round 1. I would call them a far below average team when healthy. They got when they got Jimmy, but they are from a contender.

Wolves: not gonna talk about us here.

Clippers: I would call them the 4th best team after OKC, Wolves, Denver. I had them slightly better than Houston because Houston lacked consistent offense and playoff experience. They had depth issues, defensive issues, and I would not have had them in the WCF no matter what happened in round 1. They could not beat us or OKC. Agree or disagree?

Denver: Jokic carried so much water for that team. Gordon played amazing and kept them alive, but shallow team with terrible defense. Do you really see them surviving us and the East to win a chip? I was impressed they took OKC to 7, but they were clearly below us in talent and depth.

LAL: No bigs, bad defense (Reaves and Doncic level bad,) rookie coach, no depth, and a 40+ year old key player. Do you really think LAL was anywhere close to a top dog in terms of roster talent?

Houston: couldn’t score in the playoffs. Lost to a tiny GSW team. Not even mentioning the inexperience of most of the roster. They were tougher than GSW matchup wise, but they were not exactly intimidating for us. We are better at defense than GSW, and have the size they lacked to matchup.

OKC: they have the same depth and star power as us. They have a better coach and better scheme. They know how to manipulate the whistle better than us, and they get more players involved than us. Beating them was always going to be an uphill climb. I still think it was doable. But our inability to play effective zone defense, our poor ball handling, and poor rebounding/lack of effective backup C doomed us.

Look at this list and tell me I am wrong. That you would pick any team other than OKC over us. Because honestly, we should win every other series in 5 or at most 6.

[shrink]

I agree with you that better play from our PG position would greatly improve our team. I hate Ant pounding the ball looking for openings. I think we get better PG play this year from Dilly. Whatever our weaknesses are we have had our 2 most successful seasons in team history these past two seasons. 2 WCFs in a row. Our talent is very good, but our talent isn't dominant over the rest of the league like you choose to believe.

OKC: they have the same depth and star power as us.

If you can write this, you are proving KGdaBm’s point.

Ant < MVP SGA
Randle << all NBA Jalen Williams - a legitimate second star for star power.
Gobert < Chet, who is also a great defender and far more versatile
Lou Dort and Caruso are great defenders like Jaden and NAW, though I give the nod to Jaden’s upside.
Hartenstein is as good or better first big off the bench than Naz.
Aaron Wiggins, Cason Wallace, and Isiah Joe give them as much bench depth as we do.
Kenrich and Jaylen Williams? That’s ten for depth.

When you over-value our players and every prospect and they don’t win it all, you force yourself to put the blame on the front office and coach, and diminish what we’ve achieved. MIN’s tremendous rise up the standings in the second half wasn’t because 30 year old Julius Randle suddenly became more talented - some of the credit has to go to Chris Finch integrating him. Both of the last playoffs, MIN beat teams that experts (who don’t have a MIN bias) favored over us. The best player in those first two series wins was Tim Connelly acquisition, Julius Randle.

If you posted that MIN’s roster “has the same depth and star power as OKC” on a neutral board, you’d be laughed out of the room. I’m not going to debate this with you again, but please take a step back and consider what KGdaBom is saying here. Maybe you’ve gone too far.

[TimberKat]

You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that they didn't make the trade for Ant if you are also arguing they made it to speed up Ant's development.

Most of us agree it was made to help Ant. You've made it abundantly clear you don't agree.

We should had kept Towns. However, I don't think his trade had anything to do with new CBA vs Old, results of Gobert trade, or above/below Apron. It is purely we value Randle+DDV more and management though Naz could step up. I think they were wrong. We could had kept the core of Gobert, Towns, Ant, and JMcD then do sign trade for both Naz and NAW this summer to stay under 2nd apron. I would have zero problem with that.

So basically it comes down to.....

Towns 53,142,264 / 57,078,728 / 61,015,192 (PO)

OR

Randle 30,864,198 / 33,333,333 / 35,802,469 (PO)
Reid 21,551,724 / 23,275,862 / 25,000,000 / 26,724,138 / 28,448,276
DiVincenzo 11,990,000 / 12,535,000

...and you choose the first of the two options for 2025-26 and beyond? Interesting.

Yes, you can always build around all stars. Towns is clearly the best player. I may also give up Conley to keep Naz or use the 20mil to sign another PG.

[fattymcgee]

I agree with you that better play from our PG position would greatly improve our team. I hate Ant pounding the ball looking for openings. I think we get better PG play this year from Dilly. Whatever our weaknesses are we have had our 2 most successful seasons in team history these past two seasons. 2 WCFs in a row. Our talent is very good, but our talent isn't dominant over the rest of the league like you choose to believe.

OKC: they have the same depth and star power as us.

If you can write this, you are proving KGdaBm’s point.

Ant < MVP SGA
Randle << all NBA Jalen Williams - a legitimate second star for star power.
Gobert < Chet, who is also a great defender and far more versatile
Lou Dort and Caruso are great defenders like Jaden and NAW, though I give the nod to Jaden’s upside.
Hartenstein is as good or better first big off the bench than Naz.
Aaron Wiggins, Cason Wallace, and Isiah Joe give them as much bench depth as we do.
Kenrich and Jaylen Williams? That’s ten for depth.

When you over-value our players and every prospect and they don’t win it all, you force yourself to put the blame on the front office and coach, and diminish what we’ve achieved. MIN’s tremendous rise up the standings in the second half wasn’t because 30 year old Julius Randle suddenly became more talented - some of the credit has to go to Chris Finch integrating him. Both of the last playoffs, MIN beat teams that experts (who don’t have a MIN bias) favored over us. The best player in those first two series wins was Tim Connelly acquisition, Julius Randle.

If you posted that MIN’s roster “has the same depth and star power as OKC” on a neutral board, you’d be laughed out of the room. I’m not going to debate this with you again, but please take a step back and consider what KGdaBom is saying here. Maybe you’ve gone too far.

Excellent post Shrink.

[minimus]

If you posted that MIN’s roster “has the same depth and star power as OKC” on a neutral board, you’d be laughed out of the room. I’m not going to debate this with you again, but please take a step back and consider what KGdaBom is saying here. Maybe you’ve gone too far.

- Gobert trade ruined this franchise!
- ?!
- MIN has the same depth and star power as OKC!
- ?!!
- But Finch sucks, so our players are winning despite our terrible coaching staff and management!
- ?!!!