Raptors sign Jamison Battle (exhibit 10)

[ForeverTFC]

The determinative question before you sign a guy like Battle, is if he's truly an NBA player. If he's got value across the league, then he's an asset you grab - I envision using his (modest) value as part of a trade.

Guys like Battle aren't swinging any (significant) trades one way or the other. You grab guys like him to plug into your development program and fill out your bench. We're going to have him at ~1% of the cap for the next 2 years, essentially free depth.

[earthtone]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

[Tripod]

The determinative question before you sign a guy like Battle, is if he's truly an NBA player. If he's got value across the league, then he's an asset you grab - I envision using his (modest) value as part of a trade.

Guys like Battle aren't swinging any (significant) trades one way or the other. You grab guys like him to plug into your development program and fill out your bench. We're going to have him at ~1% of the cap for the next 2 years, essentially free depth.

Yeah you take the win of finding him and getting him dirt cheap. Replacing him given his cap hit is nearly impossible.

[TimeForChange]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

so what you're saying is one player has improved after entering the league and the other has regressed?

[MEDIC]

I wouldn't trade any of these guys unless there's a clear winning trade. Dick, Walter, Battle and even Agbaji can get a lot better with more time with Darko. We should be looking to trade RJ for a big instead and clear up room.

Maybe some kind of deal with Orlando. They love big guards and he's young enough to fit with their core. They'll want to retool around their main guys since the season was disappointing.

Battle has more athleticism than he's shown. I wouldn't discount him there. I would guess he's capable of being a great back up SF and he's got decent size too.

Agbaji needs to be the salary dump for the best 2nd rounder they can get. Has he built up his value to late 1st pick?

Would love to use this pick on Sergio de Larrea and stash him for 1 year as he can start for Valencia and play double the minutes. Maybe then he doesn't try to force passes in his limited time.

Why trade the only legit 3+D player than we have? We need more players like Ochai. Not less.

[MEDIC]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

When Gradey proves himself, I'll give him props.

As a lottery pick & 2nd year NBA player, he has yet to prove that he is as effective as our undrafted rookie.

[Boogie!]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

When Gradey proves himself, I'll give him props.

As a lottery pick & 2nd year NBA player, he has yet to prove that he is as effective as our undrafted rookie.

The way people compare players is weird to me… has anyone looked at kawhis college numbers?

[YogurtProducer]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

Good thing whatever they did at 21YO doesn’t matter.

[tsherkin]

The way people compare players is weird to me… has anyone looked at kawhis college numbers?

TBF with Kawhi, he had an atypical development arc. It's not the sort of thing you generally expect. Still, he had strong physical tools and then showed year to year improvement with a strong base. He didn't hit the league as a monster, but he showed meaningful improvement each season. He was also a wizard at ball protection from the first, and very efficient all along the way, even as his offensive load rose.

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

Good thing whatever they did at 21YO doesn’t matter.

With Battle, one of the big differences is that almost 40% of his 3s for us have come from the corner. Also, he'd shot 35.4 - 36.6 from 3 for three seasons prior to his age-21 year with Minnesota, so the 31% he shot is a bit misleading (especially since he shot over 43% the year after).

But yes, in the context of Gradey, we'll have to see what happens. He hasn't played a ton of games for us over his first two seasons. The shooting ability is there when he's wide open, and you can see it at the line. He was better from the corners his first season. He needs to get better as the defender is closing out, and then broaden out his game from there as best he can. We'll have to see what happens. We might have asked him to do a little too much too early, so we'll see what year 3 brings.

[yellowknifer]

The determinative question before you sign a guy like Battle, is if he's truly an NBA player. If he's got value across the league, then he's an asset you grab - I envision using his (modest) value as part of a trade.

Guys like Battle aren't swinging any (significant) trades one way or the other. You grab guys like him to plug into your development program and fill out your bench. We're going to have him at ~1% of the cap for the next 2 years, essentially free depth.

I think he could be a good rotation player and maybe even starter myself. His shooting is great. His rebounding is good. He is smart on defense and he moves his feet well laterally. Definitely a plus defender against lesser talent and he wasn’t a total liability against better players. Pretty smart. Not a tonne of mental errors on that side. His experience showed. I think he’s more athletic than many general managers thought and he is smart, strong and has decent size so it can make up some for any deficiency in quickness. He was unreal shooting before he was forced to put the mask on and that clearly messed with him until he started to figure it out again. I predict a long career for him and he will become an undrafted legend similar to Fred. I tend to be optimistic but he fits nicely in today’s NBA. His lack of handle doesn’t matter too much because he’s such a deadly shooter.

[DreamTeam09]

We ask for different things between GD and Battle, even in the way they get their 3 off. Not sure why a sophomore struggling in the NBA is some sort of anomaly for some people.

S/o to Battle tho

[Badonkadonk]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

so what you're saying is one player has improved after entering the league and the other has regressed?

Let's be real, Gradey is a completely different player. He can score in a variety of ways that Jamison is only learning to now, and some he may not be able to ever replicate (especially dribble drives). The main thing Gradey had innately that Jamison has gotten better at over the course of the year is just movement shooting, especially coming off of screens.

When Dick was actually featured in the offense in the 1st half of the seasons during all of the injuries, teams actually game planned against him. This was great for his experience, he'll need to learn to adjust in response.

Love me some Jamison Battle, but there's reasons why he was undrafted and Gradey was fringe lotto.

[MEDIC]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

so what you're saying is one player has improved after entering the league and the other has regressed?

Let's be real, Gradey is a completely different player. He can score in a variety of ways that Jamison is only learning to now, and some he may not be able to ever replicate (especially dribble drives). The main thing Gradey had innately that Jamison has gotten better at over the course of the year is just movement shooting, especially coming off of screens.

When Dick was actually featured in the offense in the 1st half of the seasons during all of the injuries, teams actually game planned against him. This was great for his experience, he'll need to learn to adjust in response.

Love me some Jamison Battle, but there's reasons why he was undrafted and Gradey was fringe lotto.

On paper, Gradey ahould be a more dynamic & more valuable.player.

To date, he hasn't proved that he can be a consistent/ efficient dynamic scorer. Plus his defense is awful.

We'll see what happens, but Gradey has a hell.of a lot of.work to do.

If I am.trying to win games, right now.I take Battle.

[tsherkin]

so what you're saying is one player has improved after entering the league and the other has regressed?

Let's be real, Gradey is a completely different player. He can score in a variety of ways that Jamison is only learning to now, and some he may not be able to ever replicate (especially dribble drives). The main thing Gradey had innately that Jamison has gotten better at over the course of the year is just movement shooting, especially coming off of screens.

When Dick was actually featured in the offense in the 1st half of the seasons during all of the injuries, teams actually game planned against him. This was great for his experience, he'll need to learn to adjust in response.

Love me some Jamison Battle, but there's reasons why he was undrafted and Gradey was fringe lotto.

On paper, Gradey ahould be a more dynamic & more valuable.player.

To date, he hasn't proved that he can be a consistent/ efficient dynamic scorer. Plus his defense is awful.

We'll see what happens, but Gradey has a hell.of a lot of.work to do.

If I am.trying to win games, right now.I take Battle.

Gradey showed some signs early, and couldn't keep it up. He has a lot of work to do on his body and his ability to manage physicality... and defensive pressure, for sure. The talent is there, but he does have a lot of evolution necessary before he gets to where we need him to be, for sure.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Dalek]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

Battle is now age 24. I am confused about this comp as they had such different paths to the NBA. You just don't buy yourself as much time with a prospect like Battle. They have to be productive right away and fit a specific role.

Gradey is really just a development piece. He has more upside because of his pedigree and athleticism but we don't know who he is yet.

[earthtone]

Jamison Battle at 21 years old:
12.4 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.9 TO, 1.0 STOCKS, shooting 37% from the field, and 31% from three as a Fourth-Year Junior in the Big Ten

Gradey Dick at 21 years old:
14.4 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.5 TO, 1.1 STOCKS shooting 41% from the field, and 35% from three as a Sophmore in the NBA.

Jamison is definitely a win for a UDFA signing, but let's pump the brakes before we say he's passed Gradey Dick. They're different calibres of prospects

Battle is now age 24. I am confused about this comp as they had such different paths to the NBA. You just don't buy yourself as much time with a prospect like Battle. They have to be productive right away and fit a specific role.

Gradey is really just a development piece. He has more upside because of his pedigree and athleticism but we don't know who he is yet.

That’s essentially what I was trying to show. Gradey has much more upside as a player and isn’t close to being surpassed on the depth chart by Battle

[ontnut]

Jamison is a nice end of bench piece. Gradey is the better prospect and should still be higher on the pecking order. He's going to get more developmental minutes, and I think he's going to have a solid 3rd season.

Year 3 is kind of where you get to see what a NBA lottery pick is going to become. If he can't crack it this year, then he's ultimately "change of scenery" trade bait.

[WuTang_CMB]

Guaranteed

[ArthurVandelay]

Jamison is a nice end of bench piece. Gradey is the better prospect and should still be higher on the pecking order. He's going to get more developmental minutes, and I think he's going to have a solid 3rd season.

Year 3 is kind of where you get to see what a NBA lottery pick is going to become. If he can't crack it this year, then he's ultimately "change of scenery" trade bait.

It’s great to have cheap, serviceable, and hungry undrafted talent to push the blue chips. Earned not given. Competition is a good thing.