NBA Trade Thread #13

[DASMACKDOWN]

Lets continue here!

[Infinity2152]

Brian Windhorst on his podcast today said other teams have informed him the Celtics are actively trying to trade Anfernee Simons. They almost certainly want a smaller expiring contract. They lost Porzingas, Kornet, and Horford. Not a lot of teams could take Simons contract without blowing up the team. This seems an obvious Vucevic destination. Also, have the Warriors added a starting center yet? They lost Looney, IIRC.

[Andi Obst]

Brian Windhorst on his podcast today said other teams have informed him the Celtics are actively trying to trade Anfernee Simons. They almost certainly want a smaller expiring contract. They lost Porzingas, Kornet, and Horford. Not a lot of teams could take Simons contract without blowing up the team. This seems an obvious Vucevic destination. Also, have the Warriors added a starting center yet? They lost Looney, IIRC.

Seems like it's either Warriors starting center or retirement for Al Horford. That's probably the solution they want for that spot.

[jnrjr79]

Brian Windhorst on his podcast today said other teams have informed him the Celtics are actively trying to trade Anfernee Simons. They almost certainly want a smaller expiring contract. They lost Porzingas, Kornet, and Horford. Not a lot of teams could take Simons contract without blowing up the team. This seems an obvious Vucevic destination. Also, have the Warriors added a starting center yet? They lost Looney, IIRC.

Since Boston is in a "gap year," I don't know if they actually care that much about the C position as such. If they do, great. But even if they don't, Vooch is expiring and works for them to set them up to build back for 2 years from now when Tatum is back.

The question here, I guess, is do the Bulls even want Simons and his contract? It would eat into their 2026 flexibility. You can't play him with Coby and Giddey, so if you're doing this, I would think it's with an eye toward trading Coby and eliminating the risk of whether he re-signs or would re-sign at the number you want. Simons seems like a pretty rough fit defensively with Giddey.

[WesPeace]

Simons isnt needed and its not a fit at the moment for Bulls, unless Coby or Ayo would go somewhere in a trade..

[jnrjr79]

Simons isnt needed and its not a fit at the moment for Bulls, unless Coby or Ayo would go somewhere in a trade..

It'd have to be Coby. Coby + Simons + Giddey just plain doesn't work. And I'm not all that sure Simons + Giddey is a particularly good idea even if you have a solid perimeter defender as your third guy.

[Infinity2152]

Simons is expiring, just like Coby. Either one can play sixth man, neither HAS to start. Coby and Ayo are both in trade rumors anyway. There's little to no risk. Unless you just rather have Vucevic instead of Simons, that is. Then we're also assuming all these guards would all be healthy all year.

Under no circumstances would I start Coby+Simons+Giddey. But Simon's can be a great scorer off the bench and get plenty of minutes. And not sure Coby is any better a defender than Simons. Gives us options, Coby's long-term situation here will be out of our control come trade deadline.

[nomorezorro]

The question here, I guess, is do the Bulls even want Simons and his contract? It would eat into their 2026 flexibility.

simons is expiring after this year

i'm smashing accept on vuc for simons if it's on the table. we don't really have a scorer off the bench still so he does nominally fill a need, adds some shooting, you don't have to have the awkward "hey we're cutting you out of the starting lineup/reducing your minutes" conversation with him like you would with vucevic. decent chance you can spin him off to a contender at the deadline, too (and you don't have to deal with any sunk-cost baggage that might have stopped AK from trading vucevic for a meager return)

would be a really crowded backcourt but all indications are we're trying to trade ayo anyway, so.

[Infinity2152]

The question here, I guess, is do the Bulls even want Simons and his contract? It would eat into their 2026 flexibility.

simons is expiring after this year

i'm smashing accept on vuc for simons if it's on the table. we don't really have a scorer off the bench still so he does nominally fill a need, adds some shooting, you don't have to have the awkward "hey we're cutting you out of the starting lineup/reducing your minutes" conversation with him like you would with vucevic. decent chance you can spin him off to a contender at the deadline, too (and you don't have to deal with any sunk-cost baggage that might have stopped AK from trading vucevic for a meager return)

would be a really crowded backcourt but all indications are we're trying to trade ayo anyway, so.

Would have thought people would be all over this. What better return do y'all think we're getting for Vucevic at this point? We'd definitely be getting close to $20 mill salary back, and players who would crowd the rotation anyway.

He's actually been a better 3pt shooter than Coby with higher volume for career. By most stats, he's incredibly similar, Coby is not way better.

[jnrjr79]

The question here, I guess, is do the Bulls even want Simons and his contract? It would eat into their 2026 flexibility.

simons is expiring after this year

i'm smashing accept on vuc for simons if it's on the table. we don't really have a scorer off the bench still so he does nominally fill a need, adds some shooting, you don't have to have the awkward "hey we're cutting you out of the starting lineup/reducing your minutes" conversation with him like you would with vucevic. decent chance you can spin him off to a contender at the deadline, too (and you don't have to deal with any sunk-cost baggage that might have stopped AK from trading vucevic for a meager return)

would be a really crowded backcourt but all indications are we're trying to trade ayo anyway, so.

Whoops, I misread Spotrac.

Thanks.

[jnrjr79]

The question here, I guess, is do the Bulls even want Simons and his contract? It would eat into their 2026 flexibility.

simons is expiring after this year

i'm smashing accept on vuc for simons if it's on the table. we don't really have a scorer off the bench still so he does nominally fill a need, adds some shooting, you don't have to have the awkward "hey we're cutting you out of the starting lineup/reducing your minutes" conversation with him like you would with vucevic. decent chance you can spin him off to a contender at the deadline, too (and you don't have to deal with any sunk-cost baggage that might have stopped AK from trading vucevic for a meager return)

would be a really crowded backcourt but all indications are we're trying to trade ayo anyway, so.

Would have thought people would be all over this. What better return do y'all think we're getting for Vucevic at this point? We'd definitely be getting close to $20 mill salary back, and players who would crowd the rotation anyway.

He's actually been a better 3pt shooter than Coby with higher volume for career. By most stats, he's incredibly similar, Coby is not way better.

I think the idea here is that if it doesn't bring back draft assets, then what's the interest, because Simons isn't a great fit with the existing squad. I suppose the counter to that is you could have Simons and Coby on the roster and then you can try to keep one of them if you want to have a scoring guard around moving forward.

The appeal for me is really just freeing up minutes for other centers, so I guess I see it from that point pretty well.

[Infinity2152]

simons is expiring after this year

i'm smashing accept on vuc for simons if it's on the table. we don't really have a scorer off the bench still so he does nominally fill a need, adds some shooting, you don't have to have the awkward "hey we're cutting you out of the starting lineup/reducing your minutes" conversation with him like you would with vucevic. decent chance you can spin him off to a contender at the deadline, too (and you don't have to deal with any sunk-cost baggage that might have stopped AK from trading vucevic for a meager return)

would be a really crowded backcourt but all indications are we're trying to trade ayo anyway, so.

Would have thought people would be all over this. What better return do y'all think we're getting for Vucevic at this point? We'd definitely be getting close to $20 mill salary back, and players who would crowd the rotation anyway.

He's actually been a better 3pt shooter than Coby with higher volume for career. By most stats, he's incredibly similar, Coby is not way better.

I think the idea here is that if it doesn't bring back draft assets, then what's the interest, because Simons isn't a great fit with the existing squad. I suppose the counter to that is you could have Simons and Coby on the roster and then you can try to keep one of them if you want to have a scoring guard around moving forward.

The appeal for me is really just freeing up minutes for other centers, so I guess I see it from that point pretty well.

At this point, bringing back draft assets in a Vucevic trade may not be the top priority. Consider it a lateral move. We have no scoring guard or explosive scorer off the bench now. We have an extra center that most here want to get rid of. Both are expiring, but the guard we're getting is much younger and there's a higher possibility he could be re-signed or traded, ie become a future asset. I mean, are you really expecting big draft assets in any Vuc trade, with 10 centers moving around already this summer?

And again, Coby insurance. There's a better than zero chance that Simons plays as well or better than Coby next year. Well enough that we want to keep him, or he significantly increases his trade value. Having Simons would also limit Coby's minutes and shots some in a contract year. That's not bad for the team planning to re-sign Coby. The odds of wanting to bring Vucevic back next year are probably much closer to zero.

Super sub vs an older center who doesn't fit the new style of play.

[jnrjr79]

Would have thought people would be all over this. What better return do y'all think we're getting for Vucevic at this point? We'd definitely be getting close to $20 mill salary back, and players who would crowd the rotation anyway.

He's actually been a better 3pt shooter than Coby with higher volume for career. By most stats, he's incredibly similar, Coby is not way better.

I think the idea here is that if it doesn't bring back draft assets, then what's the interest, because Simons isn't a great fit with the existing squad. I suppose the counter to that is you could have Simons and Coby on the roster and then you can try to keep one of them if you want to have a scoring guard around moving forward.

The appeal for me is really just freeing up minutes for other centers, so I guess I see it from that point pretty well.

At this point, bringing back draft assets in a Vucevic trade may not be the top priority. Consider it a lateral move. We have no scoring guard or explosive scorer off the bench now. We have an extra center that most here want to get rid of. Both are expiring, but the guard we're getting is much younger and there's a higher possibility he could be re-signed or traded, ie become a future asset. I mean, are you really expecting big draft assets in any Vuc trade, with 10 centers moving around already this summer?

And again, Coby insurance. There's a better than zero chance that Simons plays as well or better than Coby next year. Well enough that we want to keep him, or he significantly increases his trade value. Having Simons would also limit Coby's minutes and shots some in a contract year. That's not bad for the team planning to re-sign Coby. The odds of wanting to bring Vucevic back next year are probably much closer to zero.

Super sub vs an older center who doesn't fit the new style of play.

So, first, if anything, I think making the roster better next year is a bad thing, because the Bulls won't be terribly good in any event, and they might as well maximize draft capital.

I don't think Vooch is going to get much if anything in return, but my priorities are basically:

1) literally any draft capital
2) take on no long-term money

Simons fits #2. And, as you note, maybe he plays well and you can flip him, or you flip Coby (and either keep Simons or don't) or whatever. I had not understood when I started posting about this that Simons is expiring, but having that pointed out to me, sure, why the hell not.

[Muzbar]

Regarding Ayo trade rumours.

I want to know why the Bulls are shopping him and what they're looking for in return. This is the roster as I see it (just projecting what it will might look like):

Giddey/Jones/Carter
White/Ayo/Huerter
Williams/Okoro/Terry
Buzelis/Essengue/JP
Vuc/Smith/Collins

You can move players to whichever position you think is more accurate, but it looks as though every position is 3 deep. So is it a "we have too many guards" problem, if so, are they then going to trade for a forward or center? Than you'll have a logjam at those positions as well.

If it's straight up for a 2nd rounder or two without a player coming back then that makes somewhat sense.

Unless the Bulls plan on doing a 2-for-1 trade with Ayo included I don't really see why they should look into trading him.

[Infinity2152]

Regarding Ayo trade rumours.

I want to know why the Bulls are shopping him and what they're looking for in return. This is the roster as I see it (just projecting what it will might look like):

Giddey/Jones/Carter
White/Ayo/Huerter
Williams/Okoro/Terry
Buzelis/Essengue/JP
Vuc/Smith/Collins

You can move players to whichever position you think is more accurate, but it looks as though every position is 3 deep. So is it a "we have too many guards" problem, if so, are they then going to trade for a forward or center? Than you'll have a logjam at those positions as well.

If it's straight up for a 2nd rounder or two without a player coming back then that makes somewhat sense.

Unless the Bulls plan on doing a 2-for-1 trade with Ayo included I don't really see why they should look into trading him.

I agree. He's one of the most tenured players and has a pretty good chance of rehabbing his value. Good bet to sign a value contract. I'd think he's much more likely to be-re-signed and be of value than say Huerter, Vucevic, Terry, Phillips, Carter, Collins. He's pretty far down the list of players I'd be actively LOOKING to trade.

[WesPeace]

Ayo trade rumours are head scratcher for sure, could be just totally made up nonsense and it spreaded like bad virus lol..

[Dez]

"Explosive scorer off the bench" is just code for inefficient chucker.

If you can't get any form of draft capital for Vuc then just keep him, no point shuffling around expiring contracts.

[Infinity2152]

"Explosive scorer off the bench" is just code for inefficient chucker.

If you can't get any form of draft capital for Vuc then just keep him, no point shuffling around expiring contracts.

Coby White: Career TS% .562 Anfernee Simons Career TS% .564 White eFG%.527 Simons eFG% .531
Coby White: Career 3pt% .369 Anfernee Simons Career 3pt% .381

Simons only played 20 games his first season, so it's 213 games for him vs 225 for Coby. Simons has been just as or more efficient over roughly the same number of games.

This despite the fact that Simons has been the top scoring option on a bad team while Coby has been the third or fourth option most of his career. Which one has more consistently faced top defenders as a starter? Who should be more efficient?

Simons also has the physical tools to be a plus defender. He's short and fast with a 6'9 wingspan. You could think of him as a 25 year old prospect we get a chance to get a good look at for the low cost of Vucevic. The player he is right now would be top 5 in this draft, we just get a one year expiring contract instead of the standard four. I don't think the top 5 picks will all be able to average 20 pts/gm day 1 of the season.

Bulls have been bad developing young talent at times, but Portland's arguably been worse over the last 5 years. If they hadn't traded away Jrue, Simons might look a lot better. There's a reason they brought him back, and it wasn't to get rid of an expiring contract by adding more years.

[Dez]

They're both chuckers, Coby has shown that he can be efficient but he's still a chucker.

Simons will never be a plus defender regardless of physical tools, he's not a smart player.

[SirKaiser]

If we could find a way to get rid of Huerter too, I'm all for it.

We already have too many forwards, I wouldn't want a crowded back court too. Giddey, Coby, Jones, Ayo, and Simons. Those are the only guards that would get minutes