Holy Offseason I Can’t Believe it’s July FA/Trade/Waiver Thread

[djFan71]

Those 4 potential trade targets you mentioned..you could make a case that Simons is as good (or better) than all of them. Especially when factoring in age. And potential fit on the Celtics since we shoot more 3's than any team in NBA history, and Simons is a better shooter than those other 4 guys.

So it doesn't seem ideal to me to get possibly a worse player in return *and* have to trade a 1st round pick.

I think you would probably lose that case. But, again you're much higher on Simons, so we won't really resolve that no matter how much we type.

I think positional need is a big factor here. Multiple times this summer we've seen crap to meh bigs traded for high scoring no-D guards AND a 2nd back. Nurkic for Sexton + 2nd. Collins for Powell + 2nd. I feel like there might have been one more, but can't remember off the top of my head. Simons may/not be slightly better than those 2, but he also costs $10M more.

We're talking a lotto-protected pick + Simons for a rotation big and some salary savings.

I also really feel like any PT Simons gets on this team this year would be wasted development for some other team in 26-27 under most scenarios. There's a chance he'll learn to do all the things he doesn't now and we resign him for cheap ($20M or less). But the combination of both the improvement and cheaper new deal seem unlikely.

So, I'd rather get a rotation big, and develop Baylor and Hugo more. Maybe even JD or some other PG we sign.

I think this pretty much encapsulates how I feel. I'd add in that I wouldn't have Jaylen top 40 games. Problem is, I'm coming around to the idea that trading for a big is just not in the cards right now and if I'm honest with myself, barring unforeseen circumstances, won't be in the cards all year. Will be happy to be wrong but I never get what I want.

My dream is still Bam in a year. But that's a whole other convo.

I like your dream, lol.

I honestly don't know what the likelihood of a Simons trade is / nor the timing of it. But, if Simons ends the year on the team, I'd be mildly surprised.

Like we've all said the $ pressure is off, so worst case Brad doesn't see a deal he likes and we just roll as is. But, I feel like he is definitely looking. Summer is easier if we also want to offload salary as part of the deal. Which while not a primary goal, is still something they'd see as a benefit. In season after guys signed this summer are tradeable, you have more options on which players to bring back, and teams have new needs, etc. So, might make sense to wait til Dec / Deadline, but it's obviously a risk.

[djFan71]

I'm super ambivalent on Niang, lol. Totally fine if we keep him, totally fine if he's traded. Not someone I have any concerns about if he's here - solid vet, etc. Not someone I'm shopping to dump. But also not someone I'd give a second thought to including in a deal.

[Fierce1]

Money aside I’d keep Niang. Big issue is he’s older and if he does well in more minutes this year he’s going to want more money.

Don’t think he overlaps with Hauser though who’s a 2/3 Niang is a 4.

Even worse if Sam plays as a 3.

JB is the starter and he's going to play more than 30 minutes per game.

If it's JB and Sam at the SF spot, that means Walsh and Hugo will not be getting playing time.

[bucknersrevenge]

Brad won't allow himself to deal from a position of weakness as it relates to Simons. He's definitely gonna keep looking to make moves but he said two things of note during that presser the other that help shed a little light into his thought process:

1. He will not attach draft compensation just to dump a player.
2. Chisolm confirmed that while getting out from under the 2nd apron was a priority because of the roster building penalties, getting out from under the repeater tax was NOT a priority.

If Brad can find a deal that works to either bring in the right player in return or allows them to shed Simons contract without giving up picks he'll do that. Otherwise there are other ways to get out from under the 2nd apron now that the heavy lifting is done. Brad would rather go into camp with this roster and either make a move at the deal, or let Simons walk after the year or re-sign him and make other moves elsewhere to round out the roster then be painted into a corner with Simons.

Before the press conference I thought there was zero chance Simons made it to training camp but that changed everything. Now it's at least 50/50 he does.

I actually don’t understand why it’s so hard to move Simons (and Niang for that matter).

If you have a solid defensive team, he’s a good vinnie the microwave type option off the bench. Instant offense on an expiring contract. I would think many playoff teams would be interested.

Simons literally has no market right now. He's in essence a rental and no one is trading anything of real worth for a guy who could possibly leave unless they know they want to pay him at least 25M+ into the future. Teams are still figuring out the landscape of the new CBA. Unless you're a max guy, few teams are interested in making big midrange income agreement right now. It's just how it is. And teams know Brad would like to get off this salary if he could. Don't think they'd use that against him? Unfortunately Simons' performance before this year or what he does this year will have little effect on his value.

As for your second point, having a nice VJ microwave scorer in what this year stands to be is utterly irrelevant. I mean couldn't matter less. We're not title contenders. What really matter is developing guys that you know for sure will be here next season and in a couple of cases, find out if some have longterm potential. Simons actually blocks that right now. So does Jaylen tbh. I get what Brad said about rebuilds and all and that's fine. You can still compete like hell and try to "win the next game" with the younger guys. Right now next season has no buzz, no pop. Anyone getting amped up to watch a #6 seed team?

[djFan71]

I don't get the consternation about Simons. We have until the trade deadline to get rid of him. Or we can stretch him I guess. Lol.

Some are acting here like we are contenders but Brad left the Center position short for 25-26. To me, we aren't good enough to need a center and can't afford a top center anyway

Garza, Quetta, Tillman and Niang as small ball 5.

I envision this lineup:

Simons
White
PP/Hauser
Brown
Niang

Niang will be our small ball 5 late. I just feel he is rugged enough when we aren't going against a team with a monster offensive center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stretching's funny cuz I looked at that previously and it does enable us to get under the lux tax. But, even I'm not ready to call for that one yet, lol.

I don't think anyone considers us true contenders in 25-26. It's more about getting guys now if possible that can help in 26-27 when we will be. Trying to rebuild multiple rotation pieces next summer might be tough, so why not grab one now if you can?

[bucknersrevenge]

I think you would probably lose that case. But, again you're much higher on Simons, so we won't really resolve that no matter how much we type.

I think positional need is a big factor here. Multiple times this summer we've seen crap to meh bigs traded for high scoring no-D guards AND a 2nd back. Nurkic for Sexton + 2nd. Collins for Powell + 2nd. I feel like there might have been one more, but can't remember off the top of my head. Simons may/not be slightly better than those 2, but he also costs $10M more.

We're talking a lotto-protected pick + Simons for a rotation big and some salary savings.

I also really feel like any PT Simons gets on this team this year would be wasted development for some other team in 26-27 under most scenarios. There's a chance he'll learn to do all the things he doesn't now and we resign him for cheap ($20M or less). But the combination of both the improvement and cheaper new deal seem unlikely.

So, I'd rather get a rotation big, and develop Baylor and Hugo more. Maybe even JD or some other PG we sign.

I think this pretty much encapsulates how I feel. I'd add in that I wouldn't have Jaylen top 40 games. Problem is, I'm coming around to the idea that trading for a big is just not in the cards right now and if I'm honest with myself, barring unforeseen circumstances, won't be in the cards all year. Will be happy to be wrong but I never get what I want.

My dream is still Bam in a year. But that's a whole other convo.

I like your dream, lol.

I honestly don't know what the likelihood of a Simons trade is / nor the timing of it. But, if Simons ends the year on the team, I'd be mildly surprised.

Like we've all said the $ pressure is off, so worst case Brad doesn't see a deal he likes and we just roll as is. But, I feel like he is definitely looking. Summer is easier if we also want to offload salary as part of the deal. Which while not a primary goal, is still something they'd see as a benefit. In season after guys signed this summer are tradeable, you have more options on which players to bring back, and teams have new needs, etc. So, might make sense to wait til Dec / Deadline, but it's obviously a risk.

Would it be just like Brad to make a major move just before training camp opens? Sure. Yet I do realize that I am purposefully setting my expectations low prematurely.

[Fierce1]

Let's not forget in 2017-18 the Cs lost Gordon Hayward on opening night and Kyrie was declared out for the whole playoffs and the Cs still made the ECF.

[bucknersrevenge]

Those 4 potential trade targets you mentioned..you could make a case that Simons is as good (or better) than all of them. Especially when factoring in age. And potential fit on the Celtics since we shoot more 3's than any team in NBA history, and Simons is a better shooter than those other 4 guys.

So it doesn't seem ideal to me to get possibly a worse player in return *and* have to trade a 1st round pick.

Right now Vooch and Claxton may be the only 2 bigs that make sense and I don't see Brooklyn giving up Nic without heavy comp. And as bad as our Center rotation looks right now, you'd have to make me a good argument why we don't just let Garza, Neemi and Amari play through a bridge year over trading Simons for a worse player in Vuc just because he's a big. Best bet may just be to wait. Maybe someone gets injured. Who knows? Or let him go at the end of the year and pocket the savings.

What if moving Simons could free up money to sign Big Al?

While I’m intrigued about Simons, I’d rather Brad get us a C because I’m not ready to concede next year.

What about DEN as a landing spot for Simons?

This is what I hope/expected to happen this offseason. But I am coming around to the belief that it hasn't happened yet because it's not going to happen. Teams just aren't interested in taking on Simons right now, nor does any team have the space or an exception big enough to take him without sending close to matching salaries back.

[Hal14]

Those 4 potential trade targets you mentioned..you could make a case that Simons is as good (or better) than all of them. Especially when factoring in age. And potential fit on the Celtics since we shoot more 3's than any team in NBA history, and Simons is a better shooter than those other 4 guys.

So it doesn't seem ideal to me to get possibly a worse player in return *and* have to trade a 1st round pick.

Right now Vooch and Claxton may be the only 2 bigs that make sense and I don't see Brooklyn giving up Nic without heavy comp. And as bad as our Center rotation looks right now, you'd have to make me a good argument why we don't just let Garza, Neemi and Amari play through a bridge year over trading Simons for a worse player in Vuc just because he's a big. Best bet may just be to wait. Maybe someone gets injured. Who knows? Or let him go at the end of the year and pocket the savings.

What if moving Simons could free up money to sign Big Al?

While I’m intrigued about Simons, I’d rather Brad get us a C because I’m not ready to concede next year.

What about DEN as a landing spot for Simons?

Al will likely be a walking corpse by the time we're ready to contend for a title again in 26-27. Hell, he was already contemplating retirement this summer. So there's a decent chance that this season will be his last.

And all signs point to Al playing for GS or Denver this season.

[winsomme2]

Brad won't allow himself to deal from a position of weakness as it relates to Simons. He's definitely gonna keep looking to make moves but he said two things of note during that presser the other that help shed a little light into his thought process:

1. He will not attach draft compensation just to dump a player.
2. Chisolm confirmed that while getting out from under the 2nd apron was a priority because of the roster building penalties, getting out from under the repeater tax was NOT a priority.

If Brad can find a deal that works to either bring in the right player in return or allows them to shed Simons contract without giving up picks he'll do that. Otherwise there are other ways to get out from under the 2nd apron now that the heavy lifting is done. Brad would rather go into camp with this roster and either make a move at the deal, or let Simons walk after the year or re-sign him and make other moves elsewhere to round out the roster then be painted into a corner with Simons.

Before the press conference I thought there was zero chance Simons made it to training camp but that changed everything. Now it's at least 50/50 he does.

I actually don’t understand why it’s so hard to move Simons (and Niang for that matter).

If you have a solid defensive team, he’s a good vinnie the microwave type option off the bench. Instant offense on an expiring contract. I would think many playoff teams would be interested.

Simons literally has no market right now. He's in essence a rental and no one is trading anything of real worth for a guy who could possibly leave unless they know they want to pay him at least 25M+ into the future. Teams are still figuring out the landscape of the new CBA. Unless you're a max guy, few teams are interested in making big midrange income agreement right now. It's just how it is. And teams know Brad would like to get off this salary if he could. Don't think they'd use that against him? Unfortunately Simons' performance before this year or what he does this year will have little effect on his value.

As for your second point, having a nice VJ microwave scorer in what this year stands to be is utterly irrelevant. I mean couldn't matter less. We're not title contenders. What really matter is developing guys that you know for sure will be here next season and in a couple of cases, find out if some have longterm potential. Simons actually blocks that right now. So does Jaylen tbh. I get what Brad said about rebuilds and all and that's fine. You can still compete like hell and try to "win the next game" with the younger guys. Right now next season has no buzz, no pop. Anyone getting amped up to watch a #6 seed team?

I’m not saying we need a Vinnie type option. I’m saying good defensive teams can compensate for a guy like Simons and benefit from his instant offense.

Like us last year unfortunately. Last year we could really have used Simons. This year we need a center.

We don’t need compensation for Simons. We just need someone who can give us back less salary.

[bucknersrevenge]

I don't get the consternation about Simons. We have until the trade deadline to get rid of him. Or we can stretch him I guess. Lol.

Some are acting here like we are contenders but Brad left the Center position short for 25-26. To me, we aren't good enough to need a center and can't afford a top center anyway

Garza, Quetta, Tillman and Niang as small ball 5.

I envision this lineup:

Simons
White
PP/Hauser
Brown
Niang

Niang will be our small ball 5 late. I just feel he is rugged enough when we aren't going against a team with a monster offensive center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stretching's funny cuz I looked at that previously and it does enable us to get under the lux tax. But, even I'm not ready to call for that one yet, lol.

I don't think anyone considers us true contenders in 25-26. It's more about getting guys now if possible that can help in 26-27 when we will be. Trying to rebuild multiple rotation pieces next summer might be tough, so why not grab one now if you can?

I high-key hate the idea of Niang as a smallball 5, although if I ever saw Joe employ it, Brad could NEVER get on a podium again and say he's not into tanking.

[djFan71]

I don't get the consternation about Simons. We have until the trade deadline to get rid of him. Or we can stretch him I guess. Lol.

Some are acting here like we are contenders but Brad left the Center position short for 25-26. To me, we aren't good enough to need a center and can't afford a top center anyway

Garza, Quetta, Tillman and Niang as small ball 5.

I envision this lineup:

Simons
White
PP/Hauser
Brown
Niang

Niang will be our small ball 5 late. I just feel he is rugged enough when we aren't going against a team with a monster offensive center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stretching's funny cuz I looked at that previously and it does enable us to get under the lux tax. But, even I'm not ready to call for that one yet, lol.

I don't think anyone considers us true contenders in 25-26. It's more about getting guys now if possible that can help in 26-27 when we will be. Trying to rebuild multiple rotation pieces next summer might be tough, so why not grab one now if you can?

I high-key hate the idea of Niang as a smallball 5, although if I ever saw Joe employ it, Brad could NEVER get on a podium again and say he's not into tanking.

Ooh, yeah, I missed that part cuz I got all hot and sweaty thinking of stretching Simons...
To me the point of a smallball 5 closer is that they can play D and switch on anyone. Niang ain't that.

[tfmiii]

Bottom line, when Sam isn’t hitting shots, he’s a liability. He’s fine when he’s on.

That's the beauty of this season, he should be free to expand his game. People call him a specialist... But that is by design. DWhite has also had his game narrowed down significantly as 3pt sniper due to team schemes.

With Brad's emphasis on movement and cutting, I'm hoping to see both of these players as well as others expand their offensive repertoire

[winsomme2]

Right now Vooch and Claxton may be the only 2 bigs that make sense and I don't see Brooklyn giving up Nic without heavy comp. And as bad as our Center rotation looks right now, you'd have to make me a good argument why we don't just let Garza, Neemi and Amari play through a bridge year over trading Simons for a worse player in Vuc just because he's a big. Best bet may just be to wait. Maybe someone gets injured. Who knows? Or let him go at the end of the year and pocket the savings.

What if moving Simons could free up money to sign Big Al?

While I’m intrigued about Simons, I’d rather Brad get us a C because I’m not ready to concede next year.

What about DEN as a landing spot for Simons?

Al will likely be a walking corpse by the time we're ready to contend for a title again in 26-27. Hell, he was already contemplating retirement this summer. So there's a decent chance that this season will be his last.

And all signs point to Al playing for GS or Denver this season.

Al has been remarkably consistent statically the past few years.

I guess I’m just not ready to concede next year, so what Al could offer the season after doesn’t matter as much to me.

[GrandTheftRondo]

If the Celtics are bad, they are bad, but I have been seeing some of the same people say that most of the time I have been a fan. Every season, maybe even when we got Jrue and KP, the same people tell us how many teams are better than us during the off-season. Any time any other team makes a move, we get post after the post saying how much better they are than we are.

Even with how badly we played, we went farther than most of the teams that a lot of you claimed to be better than us in the offseason. This has been happening for seasons upon seasons. “These teams have gotten so much better than us!!” It’s a theme every offseason.

Let it play out. You don’t have to convince us that we’re going to be bad, if that’s what you want, then why do you have to convince us? You already won!

No, the reason you’re trying to convince us (yourselves) is because you don’t believe we’ll actually be as bad as you say! You want us to be bad, you’re preaching that we’ll be bad, what’s the problem?? Confusing!

Bringing up the 6ers and Mavs after they jumped the teams with the worst records, means little to me.

The Celtics at best will be a treadmill type playoff team this season.

I don’t know why anyone would want that.

I’d much rather shut down guys in Feb and lose a heap of games and try for some lottery lucky then win 45-50 games and get clowned in the playoffs.

Brad talks about rebuilding etc not being a thing in Boston but the reality is it was lottery luck via Brooklyn that got them to a title.

Without that, the Celtics would have been like every other team hoping the balls fell their way while stinking for a few years.

There is zero to be gained from a first or second round exit outside of lining ownerships pockets with extra revenue.

[dortmunder]

We got the worst frontcourt in the entire league.
Im sorry but somebody had to make it clear.
Bridge year, they call it

[chakdaddy]

At worst, Simons can be a tank commander and an expiring. At best he might be a keeper. Either way the only reason to trade him is as a salary dump. If we wanted to flip him for a big we should have just kept KP.

[Hal14]

What if moving Simons could free up money to sign Big Al?

While I’m intrigued about Simons, I’d rather Brad get us a C because I’m not ready to concede next year.

What about DEN as a landing spot for Simons?

Al will likely be a walking corpse by the time we're ready to contend for a title again in 26-27. Hell, he was already contemplating retirement this summer. So there's a decent chance that this season will be his last.

And all signs point to Al playing for GS or Denver this season.

Al has been remarkably consistent statically the past few years.

I guess I’m just not ready to concede next year, so what Al could offer the season after doesn’t matter as much to me.

I admire your optimism..but our best player has a torn achilles and we just reduced payroll by like $200million..we added a 20 PPG scorer but rumor has it we're looking to trade him with the goal of that trade being to trim even more payroll and duck the tax altogether. Our 2 FA signings were garbage time players for the Wolves last season.

I think it's safe to say, we're not going to be title contenders next season. Which is a key reason why Al is likely to sign elsewhere - because he might only have 1 season left and he wants to go to a team with a shot at a title..

[hugepatsfan]

People focus on the 5, but I think this team needs another starting caliber player added on top of that if they're ever going to really contend again. Tatum/Brown/White can be your starting:

1) PF/SF/SG
2) PF/SF/PG
3) PF/SG/PG
4) SF/SG/PG

Basically, the idea is that, in addition to the starting C we need, they also need to find a starting caliber player at one of the PG/SG/SF/PF spots. And considering none of those 3 guys are really natural facilitators/primary ball handlers, ideally it'd be someone with some playmaking/handling chops (as opposed to a lineup like we had with Udoka where it was a double big type lineup and Tatum/Brown and then White would now be starting where Smart was).

Pritchard is nice but I don't think at his size he's every going to be a legit starter. He'll always be better off as a 6th man. I think the same for Simons, though I guess there's more upside there. I don't see it though.

I guess Hauser or Niang COULD be the token starter at SF or PF but probably only in a scenario where the 6th man is actually better and you just want to balance lineups. Not REAL starter caliber obviously.

Scheierman/Hugo/Walsh and I guess Davison/Shulga/Minott if you want to throw them in there... all fine to develop but assuming any of them will be starters seems like a big stretch IMO. Unless, again, it's the "token" starter type like I mentioned for Hauser/Niang.

I obviously understand that a true 5 is the biggest need, but in the grand scheme of things towards actually having a team that can compete for a title, I think a starting caliber player at the other spots is a need too.

[winsomme2]

I don't get the consternation about Simons. We have until the trade deadline to get rid of him. Or we can stretch him I guess. Lol.

Some are acting here like we are contenders but Brad left the Center position short for 25-26. To me, we aren't good enough to need a center and can't afford a top center anyway

Garza, Quetta, Tillman and Niang as small ball 5.

I envision this lineup:

Simons
White
PP/Hauser
Brown
Niang

Niang will be our small ball 5 late. I just feel he is rugged enough when we aren't going against a team with a monster offensive center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stretching's funny cuz I looked at that previously and it does enable us to get under the lux tax. But, even I'm not ready to call for that one yet, lol.

I don't think anyone considers us true contenders in 25-26. It's more about getting guys now if possible that can help in 26-27 when we will be. Trying to rebuild multiple rotation pieces next summer might be tough, so why not grab one now if you can?

I high-key hate the idea of Niang as a smallball 5, although if I ever saw Joe employ it, Brad could NEVER get on a podium again and say he's not into tanking.

I think the outcomes will take care of that option.

We'd lose like every rebound with Niang as our center.

I honestly don't dislike either Simons or Niang but they were needed last year not this year...