Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25
engelmartin wrote:I think I’d hate Kuzma a lot less if he was playing the 4. Can Giannis play the 3?
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:M-C-G wrote:GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:as far as actual fit and need positionally...if kuzma was available for a vet min he'd be better for us than everybody else were talking about.
hes inefficient as hell but he can spam **** onto the rim at will and defend within the system. we have a ton of one dimensional high efficiency guys on this roster to put around a spammer type. effing prince led the league in efficiency and yall hate him. play him if kuz goes off the rails. play ajj even.
but whose gonna be that guy that can spam and not be that dick if you have to sit him if hes being a dork? beal? westbrook? paul? brogdon and his smarter than everybody he knows ass? i dont know which but we have kuzma and next year he could actually have positive value if were just PATIENT.
stetching dame was smart but moving kuzma with a pick is what smacks me as desperate.
i think our roster needs to be exactly what it is for now. maybe add thanasis. thats a no brainer. he might actually need to play this year in that 3 hole. prince/ kuzma/ thansais/ ajj .... those are our sf's...i feel good about the rest
pg is a stretch but we need to just throw the balls out with rollins and kpj. if they cant figure it out then we at least know who we need to trade kuz and those picks for the following year. were in a great spot. we dont have a bad contract next offseason. lets keep it that way
I get your point but we are like 90% of the way there and still have assets (not many), being patient with roster as constructed is fine, but IF that 25 year old (ish) SF is out there, it fixes a lot. For example if Kuz and first gets us Herb Jones that is incredibly young, fun roster.
Now if they think Tyler Smith is the guy, sure, but I’m just not sure.
herb jones of course im in. im talking about moving him just to move him. its the barrets or the kumingas.....for guys other teams on the struggle dont want or dont want to pay because they have similar warts. why would we burn that pick and lock ourselves into a worse contract than kuzma? we want a new guy to try and dump?
we need a solid 3/d sf. maybe even a guy that can intitiate and star in that role like khris. hes not the guy but hes also kinda the guy if you squint and cross your fingers?
but for nesxt year immediately.....we also need guys that can spam the rim at any position. he can do that. like theres literally a chance hes more efficient than kpj next year in a primary role. and thats not nuts to say. if hes crap in efficiency, which he will be....at least he can initiate. hes basically herb jones defensively and westbrook lite on offense. thats something kinda
i say we just keep him and roll with him until that GREAT deal shows up. no idea what it is but we'll know it when we see it
Ron Swanson wrote:Kuzma's shooting wouldn't even be that big of an issue if he didn't have these Ben Simmons-esque moments where his brain just completely short-circuits and he disappears entirely from games. I just don't buy that he's "fixable" at this stage of his career. His main value to another team would be his descending salary number, which is why it's just best to rip the band aid off now. Wait a year and then what? He's just a normal expiring contract and the league has shown now that nobody cares about those anymore.
M-C-G wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Kuzma's shooting wouldn't even be that big of an issue if he didn't have these Ben Simmons-esque moments where his brain just completely short-circuits and he disappears entirely from games. I just don't buy that he's "fixable" at this stage of his career. His main value to another team would be his descending salary number, which is why it's just best to rip the band aid off now. Wait a year and then what? He's just a normal expiring contract and the league has shown now that nobody cares about those anymore.
Which teams need the salary reduction at this point? I know we can take more salary on, but not sure which teams are aggressively looking for relief
M-C-G wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Kuzma's shooting wouldn't even be that big of an issue if he didn't have these Ben Simmons-esque moments where his brain just completely short-circuits and he disappears entirely from games. I just don't buy that he's "fixable" at this stage of his career. His main value to another team would be his descending salary number, which is why it's just best to rip the band aid off now. Wait a year and then what? He's just a normal expiring contract and the league has shown now that nobody cares about those anymore.
Which teams need the salary reduction at this point? I know we can take more salary on, but not sure which teams are aggressively looking for relief
Bernman wrote:M-C-G wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Kuzma's shooting wouldn't even be that big of an issue if he didn't have these Ben Simmons-esque moments where his brain just completely short-circuits and he disappears entirely from games. I just don't buy that he's "fixable" at this stage of his career. His main value to another team would be his descending salary number, which is why it's just best to rip the band aid off now. Wait a year and then what? He's just a normal expiring contract and the league has shown now that nobody cares about those anymore.
Which teams need the salary reduction at this point? I know we can take more salary on, but not sure which teams are aggressively looking for relief
That's not going to be totally sorted in the offseason. But as of right now, Cleveland's in the worst shape. We could target Garland. Then Phoenix. We could go after Booker. NY's pretty tenuous. OG would be the most likely there. All would be far more likely at the deadline.
yb90 wrote:fansinceforever wrote:There's literally zero chance we get RJ Barrett for Kuzma and AJJ.
How many people thought John Collins and Norman Powell have the same value?
Role players like Barrett and Kuzma have similar value but you always have to factor in team age and team fit into the equation.
Toronto is trying to make room for Ochai and Gradey at the two and do not need Barrett's ball handling with Quickly, Barnes, and Ingram there. Barrett's value is likely not 1st round pick worthy but it is swap worthy, and is realistically one or two 2nd rd picks worthy. I think the money from Kuzma deals is a fair value but finding a 3rd team that sees value in Kuzma would be smart too. Many people mention the Kings but I think Charlotte could be another landing spot.
Daver wrote:fansinceforever wrote:There's literally zero chance we get RJ Barrett for Kuzma and AJJ.
True but add that 1st its a done deal.
jimmybones wrote:The solution is just have Kuzma back up Giannis and follow the same Giannis formula when he’s out there, surround him with shooters.
The “get Kuzma off my team at all costs” take are pure emotion without a hint of objectivity as far as what’s best for asset management.
Patience here allows for clarity to see what we have and what we need. It also gives other teams time to reveal themselves as non contenders due to injuries or sucking and increase their willingness to give up a productive player for the sake of their future.
Nothing wrong with rolling out the ball with what we have the first half of this season to see:
-is KPJ for real, like 2nd option for real, or good but more like 3rd-4th guy good.
-how do the rest of the young guard grouping all fit together with extended minutes with Giannis
-that KPJ/Trent/Green/Giannis/Bobby lineup that was so fun? How improved is it with Turner?
-how godly does Giannis look as focal point without bashfully deferring to Dame?
The answers to these questions will tell us just how aggressive we should be with our remaining assets and what we should be targeting to bring in with them.
In the mean time, let Kuzma yolo ball with the bench unit for 15-20 minutes a game, let him eat some regular season innings, who cares
We need to find the best 8 or 9 dudes for a playoff rotation and I think we have 7 or 8 on the roster. Nothing wrong with being patient for the finishing touches.
Bernman wrote:The Bucks went from having one of the top few payrolls, to having one of the bottom few, in a season, during the apron era, so that puts us in a position of strength. The jokers talking purely about Dame's dead cap conveniently ignore that. We're much better off the next 2 seasons at least.
soxperry wrote:Bernman wrote:M-C-G wrote:
Which teams need the salary reduction at this point? I know we can take more salary on, but not sure which teams are aggressively looking for relief
That's not going to be totally sorted in the offseason. But as of right now, Cleveland's in the worst shape. We could target Garland. Then Phoenix. We could go after Booker. NY's pretty tenuous. OG would be the most likely there. All would be far more likely at the deadline.
The issue with going after Garland is who are they getting back that helps them contend now? The one asset is Green and they have Merrill. If Im Boston i think about trading them Simons and picks for Garland, and then Cleveland re signs Simons for like 20M per.
Idk, the apron rules really suck.
soxperry wrote:jimmybones wrote:The solution is just have Kuzma back up Giannis and follow the same Giannis formula when he’s out there, surround him with shooters.
The “get Kuzma off my team at all costs” take are pure emotion without a hint of objectivity as far as what’s best for asset management.
Patience here allows for clarity to see what we have and what we need. It also gives other teams time to reveal themselves as non contenders due to injuries or sucking and increase their willingness to give up a productive player for the sake of their future.
Nothing wrong with rolling out the ball with what we have the first half of this season to see:
-is KPJ for real, like 2nd option for real, or good but more like 3rd-4th guy good.
-how do the rest of the young guard grouping all fit together with extended minutes with Giannis
-that KPJ/Trent/Green/Giannis/Bobby lineup that was so fun? How improved is it with Turner?
-how godly does Giannis look as focal point without bashfully deferring to Dame?
The answers to these questions will tell us just how aggressive we should be with our remaining assets and what we should be targeting to bring in with them.
In the mean time, let Kuzma yolo ball with the bench unit for 15-20 minutes a game, let him eat some regular season innings, who cares
We need to find the best 8 or 9 dudes for a playoff rotation and I think we have 7 or 8 on the roster. Nothing wrong with being patient for the finishing touches.
Yep, i agree with that. He can get 15 per game during the regular season just taking opportune drives
tedbrogen wrote:Bernman wrote:The Bucks went from having one of the top few payrolls, to having one of the bottom few, in a season, during the apron era, so that puts us in a position of strength. The jokers talking purely about Dame's dead cap conveniently ignore that. We're much better off the next 2 seasons at least.
Then the cap increases and Dame potentially signs a deal for some or all of an MLE with another team next offseason lowering the hit in the last three years, so it won’t be that big of a deal.
Plus, Bucks are getting some form of bird rights to most of the guys they got one cheap 1+1 deals. So if anyone breaks out big time, they can easily retain them. And the Bucks owners have shown they will absolutely go into the tax to retain players. Unlike the Pacers owner…
Bernman wrote:tedbrogen wrote:Bernman wrote:The Bucks went from having one of the top few payrolls, to having one of the bottom few, in a season, during the apron era, so that puts us in a position of strength. The jokers talking purely about Dame's dead cap conveniently ignore that. We're much better off the next 2 seasons at least.
Then the cap increases and Dame potentially signs a deal for some or all of an MLE with another team next offseason lowering the hit in the last three years, so it won’t be that big of a deal.
That would only give even more relief the next 2 seasons, but after that it doesn't apply. It's only for the duration of Dame's contract. May be still usable in the 3rd offseason. That much isn't clear. But definitely not during seasons 3-5.Plus, Bucks are getting some form of bird rights to most of the guys they got one cheap 1+1 deals. So if anyone breaks out big time, they can easily retain them. And the Bucks owners have shown they will absolutely go into the tax to retain players. Unlike the Pacers owner…
It's not so much the tax as aprons. They're not going to want to be over the 2nd apron long to incur penalties & reduce flexibility. So if we have to get those players later, we won't have the favorable cap sheet like now. We may use our flexibility now to lock in a team & try to go for a few yrs before resetting. Or on the margins keep churning guys for new bargains around the core - Giannis, Murphy/Garland?, Turner, KPJ?.