What could TL trade 3 FRPs for?

[theBigLip]

We now have control of our future FRPs. They will likely stay in the teens or higher as long as Cade is healthy. We need a legit #2.

A few questions:

1. Should we ever make the big trade w 3+ FRPs to get another star?

2. If so, when?

3. And if so, who?


My initial answers are yes, this year or next, and lastly, someone to take over PF. Timing is a little iffy - definitely want to see what we have w our young core one more year.

I was thinking Jabari Smith Jr would have been worth the risk. Give Houston three firsts, a couple more swaps? We’d have our young PF of the future. No glaring holes on the roster. Who cares about our picks after that? They should be in the 20s forever more.

So what’s your take?

[Snakebites]

My take is no. Unless you're getting an honest to goodness star level talent who fits our team and timeline you do not trade 3 firsts. And it's unlikely we'll get such a player.

Trading three firsts puts the cost of that trade onto a timeline that is difficult to predict. Don't want to end up like the Suns, who have little future around their own star and will surrender multiple lottery picks in the coming years.

You go all in like that if you think you can win it all.

[mike06181]

Dang you should work for a click bait site!

[theBigLip]

Dang you should work for a click bait site!

That’s funny. Didn’t mean to sucker anyone in, but just get us thinking what could a big trade look like for us.

[Invictus88]

Dang you should work for a click bait site!

That’s funny. Didn’t mean to sucker anyone in, but just get us thinking what could a big trade look like for us.

There's still time to change the title to not sucker further people in. I don't buy the feigning of innocence here.

"What could TL trade 3 FRPs for?"

Or

"Future headline: TL trades 3 future FRPs for ________"

Actions speak louder than words.

[Kilo]

TDL for Giannis.
Ivey, Duren, Holland, Harris, three FRP's and two pick swaps.

Cunningham
LaVert
Thompson
Antetokounmpo
Stewart

[theBigLip]

Dang you should work for a click bait site!

That’s funny. Didn’t mean to sucker anyone in, but just get us thinking what could a big trade look like for us.

There's still time to change the title to not sucker further people in. I don't buy the feigning of innocence here.

"What could TL trade 3 FRPs for?"

Or

"Future headline: TL trades 3 future FRPs for ________"

Actions speak louder than words.

Good point. Thread title is changed.

[SuperBad]

3 top ten protected might work for the right player, I’m not giving up anything in the top 7 for sure, anybody can win the lottery these days as long as they don’t get to the actual playoffs.

[the_l_train]

I'm ready to consolidate assets or combine picks for a stud PF.

3 FRPs is a lot --- but if that is what's going out, I'm curious if a guy like Jalen Johnson or Scottie Barnes could be had. Both would be risky.

I think guys like Trey Murphy and Markannen could be had for less.

[mike06181]

Dang you should work for a click bait site!

That’s funny. Didn’t mean to sucker anyone in, but just get us thinking what could a big trade look like for us.

There's still time to change the title to not sucker further people in. I don't buy the feigning of innocence here.

"What could TL trade 3 FRPs for?"

Or

"Future headline: TL trades 3 future FRPs for ________"

Actions speak louder than words.

Much better!

[Piston Pete]

My initial thought was Lauri. But don’t think he’d require 3 FRP’s.

Giannis is the only guys I’d give up 3 for

[Kalamazoo317]

I don't think you go 3 FRP unless it's a consensus top 20 player in the league, and I don't think any of those are on the market. Maybe if we had an overflow of firsts from other teams like OKC or San Antonio, but not when that's all we've got.

[theBigLip]

I think we’re used to picking in the lottery. I don’t see us doing that anytime soon as long as Cade stays healthy. And just because he’s gone out before doesn’t mean he’ll go out again. Sounds like his leg is permanently fixed.

So if that’s the case, how good are our future picks in the 15-25 range? We’ll be lucky to get a rotation player, much less a starter with those picks. I don’t see moving 3 future FRPs that big of a deal as long as we get a legit #2 player in return. It’s more like trading 3 Marcus Sassers.

[the_l_train]

I think we’re used to picking in the lottery. I don’t see us doing that anytime soon as long as Cade stays healthy. And just because he’s gone out before doesn’t mean he’ll go out again. Sounds like his leg is permanently fixed.

So if that’s the case, how good are our future picks in the 15-25 range? We’ll be lucky to get a rotation player, much less a starter with those picks. I don’t see moving 3 future FRPs that big of a deal as long as we get a legit #2 player in return. It’s more like trading 3 Marcus Sassers.

Agreed that draft assets are overrated and such a crap shoot. You get to a point where you have enough youth and you need to consolidate assets for real proven pieces. We are at that point now.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think we’re used to picking in the lottery. I don’t see us doing that anytime soon as long as Cade stays healthy. And just because he’s gone out before doesn’t mean he’ll go out again. Sounds like his leg is permanently fixed.

So if that’s the case, how good are our future picks in the 15-25 range? We’ll be lucky to get a rotation player, much less a starter with those picks. I don’t see moving 3 future FRPs that big of a deal as long as we get a legit #2 player in return. It’s more like trading 3 Marcus Sassers.

On the flip side, trading away all of your future picks is how teams shrink their windows because it cuts off your pipeline to young, cost-controlled, replacement depth, meaning you have to buy all of your depth for inflated prices in free agency. I'd rather be Houston than the Bucks.

[theBigLip]

I think we’re used to picking in the lottery. I don’t see us doing that anytime soon as long as Cade stays healthy. And just because he’s gone out before doesn’t mean he’ll go out again. Sounds like his leg is permanently fixed.

So if that’s the case, how good are our future picks in the 15-25 range? We’ll be lucky to get a rotation player, much less a starter with those picks. I don’t see moving 3 future FRPs that big of a deal as long as we get a legit #2 player in return. It’s more like trading 3 Marcus Sassers.

Good point, although I would hope we have enough youth. This is sort of the point I was trying to make by creating this thread - what can we get w our draft assets and not giving away our young core? Suns did both and it didn’t turn out well. Same as you mentioned with the Bucks.

On the flip side, trading away all of your future picks is how teams shrink their windows because it cuts off your pipeline to young, cost-controlled, replacement depth, meaning you have to buy all of your depth for inflated prices in free agency. I'd rather be Houston than the Bucks.

[Invictus88]

I think we’re used to picking in the lottery. I don’t see us doing that anytime soon as long as Cade stays healthy. And just because he’s gone out before doesn’t mean he’ll go out again. Sounds like his leg is permanently fixed.

So if that’s the case, how good are our future picks in the 15-25 range? We’ll be lucky to get a rotation player, much less a starter with those picks. I don’t see moving 3 future FRPs that big of a deal as long as we get a legit #2 player in return. It’s more like trading 3 Marcus Sassers.

On the flip side, trading away all of your future picks is how teams shrink their windows because it cuts off your pipeline to young, cost-controlled, replacement depth, meaning you have to buy all of your depth for inflated prices in free agency. I'd rather be Houston than the Bucks.

This.

People seem to overlook that - sure - for a single instance of a pick in the 15-25 range you might not get a rotation player or starter. But across 3 of them? I would hope that at least one would fall into that category otherwise I don't think you are doing a very good job at drafting.

The players that fill rotations have to come from somewhere and the math doesn't add up if they are all supposed to come from picks 1-14. Assuming all teams have a 9-man rotation that's 270 players. It would take 20 years of drafting picks 1-14 to fill those slots.

It feels like it's always extremes here on this board. Folks take a siloed single instance of something (e.g. Sasser) and use it as a basis of judgement for everything from that point forward. You aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

Also. I'm sorry. Sasser was a bad pick for us from the jump. Yeah. I'll get roasted for saying it from the Sasser stans. He wasn't a fit for us. He still isn't. He remains too small to be feasible for the skills / mentality he has. It's not a fault of being picked 15-25. It's a fault of our GM for selecting a bad fit.

I think the reality is that our cupboards were so bare due to the awful GMs of the past decades that we are still short on talent. We get our first taste of success and folks are chomping at the bit to cut pieces off of it every which way to try and sell the bits off to take shortcuts forward. I think that just ends us back to where we were before. We need to keep getting an influx of cheap, young talent; especially if it has a reasonable chance of becoming a rotation player / tradeable asset long term. The benefit of reduced cost of these players on rookie contracts cannot be understated with today's CBA. And a pick between 15-25 can satisfy that nicely.

[thesack12]

I think we’re used to picking in the lottery. I don’t see us doing that anytime soon as long as Cade stays healthy. And just because he’s gone out before doesn’t mean he’ll go out again. Sounds like his leg is permanently fixed.

So if that’s the case, how good are our future picks in the 15-25 range? We’ll be lucky to get a rotation player, much less a starter with those picks. I don’t see moving 3 future FRPs that big of a deal as long as we get a legit #2 player in return. It’s more like trading 3 Marcus Sassers.

On the flip side, trading away all of your future picks is how teams shrink their windows because it cuts off your pipeline to young, cost-controlled, replacement depth, meaning you have to buy all of your depth for inflated prices in free agency. I'd rather be Houston than the Bucks.

This.

People seem to overlook that - sure - for a single instance of a pick in the 15-25 range you might not get a rotation player or starter. But across 3 of them? I would hope that at least one would fall into that category otherwise I don't think you are doing a very good job at drafting.

The players that fill rotations have to come from somewhere and the math doesn't add up if they are all supposed to come from picks 1-14. Assuming all teams have a 9-man rotation that's 270 players. It would take 20 years of drafting picks 1-14 to fill those slots.

It feels like it's always extremes here on this board. Folks take a siloed single instance of something (e.g. Sasser) and use it as a basis of judgement for everything from that point forward. You aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

Also. I'm sorry. Sasser was a bad pick for us from the jump. Yeah. I'll get roasted for saying it from the Sasser stans. He wasn't a fit for us. He still isn't. He remains too small to be feasible for the skills / mentality he has. It's not a fault of being picked 15-25. It's a fault of our GM for selecting a bad fit.

I think the reality is that our cupboards were so bare due to the awful GMs of the past decades that we are still short on talent. We get our first taste of success and folks are chomping at the bit to cut pieces off of it every which way to try and sell the bits off to take shortcuts forward. I think that just ends us back to where we were before. We need to keep getting an influx of cheap, young talent; especially if it has a reasonable chance of becoming a rotation player / tradeable asset long term. The benefit of reduced cost of these players on rookie contracts cannot be understated with today's CBA. And a pick between 15-25 can satisfy that nicely.

Well said.

Pistons fan base is the only group I've ever seen argue for not wanting draft picks or cap space. Its wild man.

[bstein14]

For sure, good teams end up finding rotation players with mid firsts... not always but about half of the time.

The Raptors won a championship because they got OG and Siakam in back-to-back drafts in the 20s... also FVV undrafted in 2016 as well gave them 3 cheap rookie deal rotation players with big contract Demar, Lowry and Leonard.

Especially if you have a owner who doesn't want to pay the tax.... and you have a max guy like Cade who making more than the normal max due to his 3rd team all-NBA, you essentially have most of your money tied up in your top 6 players and then rotation pieces 7-10 need to be cheap rookie deals and value vet signings, etc.

$54 million all-star #1 guy (Cade's 27-28 salary)
$38 2nd guy (fringe all-star)
$29 above average starter
$25 average starter
$19 below average starter
$15 6th Man (Full MLE type money)
That's $180 million for the top 6 players <<< Salary Cap Projection high $160s and Luxury tax about $200 million >>>>
That leaves not much wiggle room to fill out a roster if you're trying to avoid the tax.

7th-10th guys on rookie contracts and/or value vet signings to fill out rotation
That's $185 million

It gets even harder if you have two max guys on the roster.

[Patrick27]

I think the hesitation is that we know if we miss with this move, we're wasting Cade's contract. If we are going to make a move, it needs to feel like a sure thing. Nothing out there feels like a sure thing right now.

Stars like Cade don't show up in Pistons blue very often. We don't want another Grant Hill situation where our poster boy leaves in his prime. We can mess up with the wrong trade. We can mess up with the wrong culture. We can mess up by doing nothing at all. It's nerve wracking to spend all of our future firsts and our remaining cap flexibility in case they end up in street clothes as the playoffs approach. That's the fear that this fanbase is dealing with.