Free Agency & Trades Thread 2 **NOW OPEN**

[ArthurVandelay]

Keegan Murray would be a great get imo. Ultimate buy low opportunity. RJ puts up better numbers but Murray fits much better. And if he doesn’t work out, the cap is cleared with a bench full of players having potential seeking opportunity.

Play a jumbo starting lineup:
IQ
BI
KM
SB
JP

With Shead, JKW, Ochai, Dick, Battle, CMB, Mamu bench mob

[ATLTimekeeper]

True enough but no other team can offer them a supermax if taken to restricted free agency anyway so the only thing that another team could do to weaken them is to give them an offer sheet of a 2+1 at a much lesser number. This is not about other teams in my opinion, this is about not ruining the vibes currently and it is hard to blame them. just sucks this is how the league is now. No stability

Isn't this contract literally stability?

Yes but for how long? If all three qualify for the supermax, they may go two more years beyond next season but after that one of the three is absolutely getting moved because the repeater tax is crazy in this cba. With good management, which they have the might be able to shuffle the deck and stay competitive but these three are very likely going to be broken up in the next couple years.

I don't know how long 3 players play together anymore, but it's not unique to OKC. Part of their success was burning good years of Shai while they bottomed out. As a fan, I want to see teams build with superstars and not thread a needle by bottoming out. If they do, they will get punished by the repeater. Where I disagree with you is that they should play hardball with Chet and make him take less than his leverage. Chet should be able to earn the most he can possibly lobby for. OKC invested a lot on him. He delivered. He gets this extension. The injury risk that I see if a part of the reward they accepted when they drafted him. I have no issues with how this is playing out.

[Clutch0z24]

SGA/Chet/JDub are going to be together for a long time....OKC want to make a dynasty with these 3.....They will not make the same mistake they made with the KD/Westbrook/Harden trio....

Chets contract is fine because he will only get better and better....Right now you might not think hes worth that....But also many people who are around the league laugh at how much money Barnes is making....You pay them based on what they can be in a few years as well....Chet is still a baby in the NBA and is already one of the best defensive rim protectors in the league....Them kind of players do not just grow on trees...

They will extend JDub next...They have enough draft picks + young guys on the roster to use cheap contracts to build with.....They have Topic coming in who looks like he will be good as well....They have Sorber coming in who might be decent as well....They will be fine...Prolly title favs next year as well....

[OakleyDokely]

SGA/Chet/JDub are going to be together for a long time....OKC want to make a dynasty with these 3.....They will not make the same mistake they made with the KD/Westbrook/Harden trio....

Chets contract is fine because he will only get better and better....Right now you might not think hes worth that....But also many people who are around the league laugh at how much money Barnes is making....You pay them based on what they can be in a few years as well....Chet is still a baby in the NBA and is already one of the best defensive rim protectors in the league....Them kind of players do not just grow on trees...

They will extend JDub next...They have enough draft picks + young guys on the roster to use cheap contracts to build with.....They have Topic coming in who looks like he will be good as well....They have Sorber coming in who might be decent as well....They will be fine...Prolly title favs next year as well....

Unless OKC's ownership is okay with paying a record amount of tax and are okay with becoming one of the most expensive teams, if not the most expensive team in the league, they won't be able to keep all 3 long term.

A supermax plus 2 other max deals isn't really feasible anymore for any team. The CBA is a lot different than it was in the KD/Harden days, the repercussions are a lot more extreme, from the financial costs to the inability to make certain trades.

[canada_dry]

This isn’t a one way street. You guys are saying he would accept coming off the bench for this team when there hasn’t been any evidence for that.

This doesnt have to be that complicated, do you really think RJ would accept coming off the bench to let Jakobe or Ochai start for defensive reasons for a team he knows doesn’t really care about him in the long term? Is this a hot take now?

It is a one way street. You made a claim with zero evidence to back it up. That doesn't work anywhere. Legally. In business. In debate class. Nowhere

And im not claiming he would accept a backup position. I DON'T KNOW. I can't make claims i have no idea about and say it with 100% confidence that its a fact. That's what you did. Its a fallacy in and of itself.

Having said that if you asked my opinion... i think its 50/50. I don't know if he'd be thrilled about the proposition due to it being a contract year...and once you're in that role thats kinda how you're viewed across the leage...but he might be enough of a team player and unselfish enough to actually agree. He does have that DNA to him, i think. Darkos been telling him to watch a lot of manu for years now. Maybe they've been preparing him for the role this whole time

But again...that's opinion. Not fact.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Absolutisms is an intellectual dishonest standpoint.

You can apply this logic to any player then. Would Scottie accept coming off the bench? Would Ingram? They’re both “unselfish” players. By your logic, we can just “WE DONT KNOW” everything when in reality, we can make an informed decision that the likelyhood of that happening is very low due to context we can apply to a situation.

You stated it as fact with zero evidence. Then when asked to prove it you said "well prove that wrong first!" Theres a big difference.

And again that doesn't work anywhere. Not in law. Business or debate class. The onus is always on the person making said claim to prove it.

You can't just say "well then why isn't he coming off the bench then?" As evidence. Thats really where the root of the issue i had was.

By that logic I could claim im batman. And then the onus is on you to prove me wrong instead of me proving it? Have you seen us in the same room before? These are the types of arguments you're using.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Psubs]

SGA/Chet/JDub are going to be together for a long time....OKC want to make a dynasty with these 3.....They will not make the same mistake they made with the KD/Westbrook/Harden trio....

Chets contract is fine because he will only get better and better....Right now you might not think hes worth that....But also many people who are around the league laugh at how much money Barnes is making....You pay them based on what they can be in a few years as well....Chet is still a baby in the NBA and is already one of the best defensive rim protectors in the league....Them kind of players do not just grow on trees...

They will extend JDub next...They have enough draft picks + young guys on the roster to use cheap contracts to build with.....They have Topic coming in who looks like he will be good as well....They have Sorber coming in who might be decent as well....They will be fine...Prolly title favs next year as well....

They hope that Topic and Cason can be cheap guards for a while. They need to salary dump Joe and Wiggins (who should be able to fetch a 2nd rounder). Though those 2 might be viewed like Colin Sexton level players. Will let Kenrich Williams and Dieng walk unless they re-sign for super cheap.

Sorber will be groomed and they'll probably have to let Hartenstein walk or trade him next off-season.

[Potential]

Read on Twitter

[mtcan]

Read on Twitter

I mean, there was the time we were close to sending Jose Calderon to the lolcats for Tyson Chandler...

[Clutch0z24]

SGA/Chet/JDub are going to be together for a long time....OKC want to make a dynasty with these 3.....They will not make the same mistake they made with the KD/Westbrook/Harden trio....

Chets contract is fine because he will only get better and better....Right now you might not think hes worth that....But also many people who are around the league laugh at how much money Barnes is making....You pay them based on what they can be in a few years as well....Chet is still a baby in the NBA and is already one of the best defensive rim protectors in the league....Them kind of players do not just grow on trees...

They will extend JDub next...They have enough draft picks + young guys on the roster to use cheap contracts to build with.....They have Topic coming in who looks like he will be good as well....They have Sorber coming in who might be decent as well....They will be fine...Prolly title favs next year as well....

Unless OKC's ownership is okay with paying a record amount of tax and are okay with becoming one of the most expensive teams, if not the most expensive team in the league, they won't be able to keep all 3 long term.

A supermax plus 2 other max deals isn't really feasible anymore for any team. The CBA is a lot different than it was in the KD/Harden days, the repercussions are a lot more extreme, from the financial costs to the inability to make certain trades.

Well i bet we see a Jdub extension very very soon.....They will figure it out.....They want to win with these 3 for a long time obviously....I don't think they break them 3 up anytime soon.

[OakleyDokely]

SGA/Chet/JDub are going to be together for a long time....OKC want to make a dynasty with these 3.....They will not make the same mistake they made with the KD/Westbrook/Harden trio....

Chets contract is fine because he will only get better and better....Right now you might not think hes worth that....But also many people who are around the league laugh at how much money Barnes is making....You pay them based on what they can be in a few years as well....Chet is still a baby in the NBA and is already one of the best defensive rim protectors in the league....Them kind of players do not just grow on trees...

They will extend JDub next...They have enough draft picks + young guys on the roster to use cheap contracts to build with.....They have Topic coming in who looks like he will be good as well....They have Sorber coming in who might be decent as well....They will be fine...Prolly title favs next year as well....

Unless OKC's ownership is okay with paying a record amount of tax and are okay with becoming one of the most expensive teams, if not the most expensive team in the league, they won't be able to keep all 3 long term.

A supermax plus 2 other max deals isn't really feasible anymore for any team. The CBA is a lot different than it was in the KD/Harden days, the repercussions are a lot more extreme, from the financial costs to the inability to make certain trades.

Well i bet we see a Jdub extension very very soon.....They will figure it out.....They want to win with these 3 for a long time obviously....I don't think they break them 3 up anytime soon.

Signing all three to extensions and keeping all three long term are seperrwte issues.

Both Chet and Jwill still have a year on their rookie deals before the extensions kick in so it isn't a problem this year. The problems begin after that and get worse once SGAs supermax kicks in.

[douggood]

SGA 35%
jdub 25-30%
chet 25%

thats 85%ish of the regular cap, the tax line is higher than that.

[Clutch0z24]

Unless OKC's ownership is okay with paying a record amount of tax and are okay with becoming one of the most expensive teams, if not the most expensive team in the league, they won't be able to keep all 3 long term.

A supermax plus 2 other max deals isn't really feasible anymore for any team. The CBA is a lot different than it was in the KD/Harden days, the repercussions are a lot more extreme, from the financial costs to the inability to make certain trades.

Well i bet we see a Jdub extension very very soon.....They will figure it out.....They want to win with these 3 for a long time obviously....I don't think they break them 3 up anytime soon.

Signing all three to extensions and keeping all three long term are seperrwte issues.

Both Chet and Jwill still have a year on their rookie deals before the extensions kick in so it isn't a problem next year. The problems begin after that and get worse once SGAs supermax kicks in.

Regardless its a good situation to be in....They can sign them to extensions and obviously winning will play a big part in the long term....But even if they decide to pivot off any of them they will get a gold mine in a trade.....But even if they hold the 3 guys they can try and win with young players on small contracts....They will prolly be title favs next season as well....They will be in no rush to blow up the team that just won the title...

[OakleyDokely]

Well i bet we see a Jdub extension very very soon.....They will figure it out.....They want to win with these 3 for a long time obviously....I don't think they break them 3 up anytime soon.

Signing all three to extensions and keeping all three long term are seperrwte issues.

Both Chet and Jwill still have a year on their rookie deals before the extensions kick in so it isn't a problem next year. The problems begin after that and get worse once SGAs supermax kicks in.

Regardless its a good situation to be in....They can sign them to extensions and obviously winning will play a big part in the long term....But even if they decide to pivot off any of them they will get a gold mine in a trade.....But even if they hold the 3 guys they can try and win with young players on small contracts....They will prolly be title favs next season as well....They will be in no rush to blow up the team that just won the title...

They are in a very good spot as long as SGA is a MVP level player. All I'm saying is that the CBA makes it very hard to keep teams like theirs together.

[RoteSchroder]

It is a one way street. You made a claim with zero evidence to back it up. That doesn't work anywhere. Legally. In business. In debate class. Nowhere

And im not claiming he would accept a backup position. I DON'T KNOW. I can't make claims i have no idea about and say it with 100% confidence that its a fact. That's what you did. Its a fallacy in and of itself.

Having said that if you asked my opinion... i think its 50/50. I don't know if he'd be thrilled about the proposition due to it being a contract year...and once you're in that role thats kinda how you're viewed across the leage...but he might be enough of a team player and unselfish enough to actually agree. He does have that DNA to him, i think. Darkos been telling him to watch a lot of manu for years now. Maybe they've been preparing him for the role this whole time

But again...that's opinion. Not fact.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Absolutisms is an intellectual dishonest standpoint.

You can apply this logic to any player then. Would Scottie accept coming off the bench? Would Ingram? They’re both “unselfish” players. By your logic, we can just “WE DONT KNOW” everything when in reality, we can make an informed decision that the likelyhood of that happening is very low due to context we can apply to a situation.

You stated it as fact with zero evidence. Then when asked to prove it you said "well prove that wrong first!" Theres a big difference.

And again that doesn't work anywhere. Not in law. Business or debate class. The onus is always on the person making said claim to prove it.

You can't just say "well then why isn't he coming off the bench then?" As evidence. Thats really where the root of the issue i had was.

By that logic I could claim im batman. And then the onus is on you to prove me wrong instead of me proving it? Have you seen us in the same room before? These are the types of arguments you're using.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

The underlying assumption should be that most players want to start, especially in RJ's position - a player with a mid+ salary who has started his entire career and has yet to enter his prime. Generally speaking, we can make the following assumptions unless a player indicates otherwise:

1. Players naturally want to both play more and/or start if they're at that level

2. Players want to maximize their value for a large contract

It's possible RJ would accept a bench role, but there's no indication that it's 50/50 or that he would even accept this role. If he gets regulated to the bench, there's a good chance he'll ask for a trade or be gone in free agency to the highest bidder, unless we overpay him to stay on the team in a bench role. In other words, if we offer him a $20 M bench role vs another team offering a $30 M starting role, which one would he choose? Even if the salaries are the same, would he still not choose the starting role?

So forget about claims. The natural ASSUMPTION should be that RJ won't want to come off the bench unless he indicates otherwise. As of now, there are no other indications that he'd be happy about coming off the bench, so we should NOT assume that it's a viable option when hypothetically structuring the roster and playing time.

In terms of HumbleRen's use of "well then why isn't he coming off the bench then?", it is an incorrect argument to make, but doesn't deter from the fact that our natural assumption should be RJ wouldn't be pleased in a bench role. This assumption is not a factual claim as maybe for some reason RJ just doesn't care about his career that much. But at the same time, there is no justification or indication for the opposing assumption.

[ForeverTFC]

SGA 35%
jdub 25-30%
chet 25%

thats 85%ish of the regular cap, the tax line is higher than that.

Tax line puts the baseline to solve to at 120%. Minimum salary is ~1.8% on average. If they just had those 3 and 11 minimum players, they would be at 105%-110%. They have to be willing to be a 1) first apron team at minimum and 2) they'll need to ship out players they draft before any raises. On top of that, they will have a hard time using the pick capital they do have and will need to consolidate them.

They'll probably go on a 2 or so year run here and then ship one of the 3 out before or shortly after all 3 hit their extension salaries. Very hard to make the math work otherwise. There is a reason they are rumored to be up for sale.

[TimeForChange]

Read on Twitter

[navyblue]

Between booker and Beal buyout
That's 50% of cap for next 5 years.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Booker getting paid.

[HumbleRen]

Absolutisms is an intellectual dishonest standpoint.

You can apply this logic to any player then. Would Scottie accept coming off the bench? Would Ingram? They’re both “unselfish” players. By your logic, we can just “WE DONT KNOW” everything when in reality, we can make an informed decision that the likelyhood of that happening is very low due to context we can apply to a situation.

You stated it as fact with zero evidence. Then when asked to prove it you said "well prove that wrong first!" Theres a big difference.

And again that doesn't work anywhere. Not in law. Business or debate class. The onus is always on the person making said claim to prove it.

You can't just say "well then why isn't he coming off the bench then?" As evidence. Thats really where the root of the issue i had was.

By that logic I could claim im batman. And then the onus is on you to prove me wrong instead of me proving it? Have you seen us in the same room before? These are the types of arguments you're using.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

The underlying assumption should be that most players want to start, especially in RJ's position - a player with a mid+ salary who has started his entire career and has yet to enter his prime. Generally speaking, we can make the following assumptions unless a player indicates otherwise:

1. Players naturally want to both play more and/or start if they're at that level

2. Players want to maximize their value for a large contract

It's possible RJ would accept a bench role, but there's no indication that it's 50/50 or that he would even accept this role. If he gets regulated to the bench, there's a good chance he'll ask for a trade or be gone in free agency to the highest bidder, unless we overpay him to stay on the team in a bench role. In other words, if we offer him a $20 M bench role vs another team offering a $30 M starting role, which one would he choose? Even if the salaries are the same, would he still not choose the starting role?

So forget about claims. The natural ASSUMPTION should be that RJ won't want to come off the bench unless he indicates otherwise. As of now, there are no other indications that he'd be happy about coming off the bench, so we should NOT assume that it's a viable option when hypothetically structuring the roster and playing time.

In terms of HumbleRen's use of "well then why isn't he coming off the bench then?", it is an incorrect argument to make, but doesn't deter from the fact that our natural assumption should be RJ wouldn't be pleased in a bench role. This assumption is not a factual claim as maybe for some reason RJ just doesn't care about his career that much. But at the same time, there is no justification or indication for the opposing assumption.

Sums up what I’m trying to say in an elegant way.

[Los_29]

Would starting with JP, SB, IQ and BI allow RJ to get shots? Would coming off the bench allow him to have the ball in his hands more? I don’t see it being an ideal fit here especially as a starter, I’m sure he sees the same thing. We all do.

Either way, you can’t play something off as fact when there is no evidence to support it. That’s why there is push back. There is nothing out there that suggests he’s opposed to coming off the bench. What made it worse, was doubling down on a dishonest take.