Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[Bernman]

Then the cap increases and Dame potentially signs a deal for some or all of an MLE with another team next offseason lowering the hit in the last three years, so it won’t be that big of a deal.

That would only give even more relief the next 2 seasons, but after that it doesn't apply. It's only for the duration of Dame's contract. May be still usable in the 3rd offseason. That much isn't clear. But definitely not during seasons 3-5.

Plus, Bucks are getting some form of bird rights to most of the guys they got one cheap 1+1 deals. So if anyone breaks out big time, they can easily retain them. And the Bucks owners have shown they will absolutely go into the tax to retain players. Unlike the Pacers owner…

It's not so much the tax as aprons. They're not going to want to be over the 2nd apron long to incur penalties & reduce flexibility. So if we have to get those players later, we won't have the favorable cap sheet like now. We may use our flexibility now to lock in a team & try to go for a few yrs before resetting. Or on the margins keep churning guys for new bargains around the core - Giannis, Murphy/Garland?, Turner, KPJ?.

How is the Bucks cap sheet two years from now not as favorable as now? Dame counts for the same amount right now as he will for each of the next four seasons. And that’s before covering the cap will be going up and so will the aprons.

The Bucks only bad salary right now is Kuz and that’s gone in the next two seasons.

Aren't we trading Kuz for someone who makes like 10m more on the back end in this scenario? Then you won't have guys like KPJ, Trent, Green, & Rollins on bargain basement deals. You'll have to pay them. Or find another group of them, which seems unlikely, or you gotta go thru growing pains.

[Badgerlander]

I love Garland and like Quickley but I don’t want any part of their contracts

[emunney]

I love Garland and like Quickley but I don’t want any part of their contracts

Team needs IQ at any price

[BigO]

I love Garland and like Quickley but I don’t want any part of their contracts

Team needs IQ at any price

Then replace the coach.

[emunney]

Call me crazy, but:

All perimeter minutes to Porter, Green, Trent, IQ, Rollins.

All big minutes to Giannis, Turner, Portis.

That's a playoff rotation, and a unique one that nobody's really set up to deal with. We'd have a real chance.

[drone3]

Have a feeling Barret will be a big negative for us. He's not efficient and needs the ball in his hands.

Better off aiming for a more defensive wing like Camara or Herb Jones and then pick up Midds when he gets waived for ball handling and shooting

[emunney]

I love Garland and like Quickley but I don’t want any part of their contracts

Team needs IQ at any price

Then replace the coach.

With Immanuel Quickley? Unorthodox but I'm intrigued

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I get your point but we are like 90% of the way there and still have assets (not many), being patient with roster as constructed is fine, but IF that 25 year old (ish) SF is out there, it fixes a lot. For example if Kuz and first gets us Herb Jones that is incredibly young, fun roster.

Now if they think Tyler Smith is the guy, sure, but I’m just not sure.

herb jones of course im in. im talking about moving him just to move him. its the barrets or the kumingas.....for guys other teams on the struggle dont want or dont want to pay because they have similar warts. why would we burn that pick and lock ourselves into a worse contract than kuzma? we want a new guy to try and dump?

we need a solid 3/d sf. maybe even a guy that can intitiate and star in that role like khris. hes not the guy but hes also kinda the guy if you squint and cross your fingers?

but for nesxt year immediately.....we also need guys that can spam the rim at any position. he can do that. like theres literally a chance hes more efficient than kpj next year in a primary role. and thats not nuts to say. if hes crap in efficiency, which he will be....at least he can initiate. hes basically herb jones defensively and westbrook lite on offense. thats something kinda

i say we just keep him and roll with him until that GREAT deal shows up. no idea what it is but we'll know it when we see it

Problem is Kuz is only Herb on D when he’s on ball. When he’s off ball, he blows rotations all the time. That’s part of the reason he’s such a negative even when he shares the floor with Giannis. He can’t process the game fast enough. So he’s fine when he just needs to be athletic, but when he has to make decisions, he’s really awful.

i dont deny any of that. i said sure to herb jones. every fanbase wants that guy for a reason. my greater point i wont repeat except to say..... this year....if he **** up play prince or the 3 guard lineup. it doesnt matter. dont dump him just to get the next guy we need to dump. this team is in the crosshairs. whenever and wherever kuzmas contract goes..... and it will go before its up....it needs to be an A+ acquisition or it does us very little good. could even do harm if we bring in the wrong guy on the longer bigger deal

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Hard to believe this board is still debating Kuzma (ok, maybe one or two people). Any minimum guy would be better than Kuzma.

He can't shoot twos or threes, is not a good finisher at the rim, bad free throw shooter and is bad at almost every offensive category. He is consistent, though.

As far as defense, he's below average. If he was the price to pay to get under the cap, then we have to live with it. But no revisionism on the guy. At a minimum salary, he's still awful.

He is a decent rebounder.

he literally was more efficient than portis was last year. again...a guy you cream over.

dont bring up blah blah blah this that from the past blah blah blah. last year.....kuzma ts% was better than portis....end of discussion..... except to say hes not great obviously...but he is playable.

kuzma has his thing and he does it. same with portis. they can get their shots. that gives them BOTH value on this team without jrue, khris, dame, etc. both of them can get their shots in their spots. we need shot creators. the only thing worse than not having shot makers is not even having shot creators. somebody on this team needs the ability to get the ball and....GO!

so if youre going to refuse to acknowledge the one while defending the other you lose credibility. kuzma does have value until we find somebody better. nobody is arguing we need to invest in the guy longterm. we all know thats nuts

[skbucks1985]

i say we just keep him and roll with him until that GREAT deal shows up. no idea what it is but we'll know it when we see it

I think that if the Bucks want to make a trade between now and the trade deadline, Wiggins and Barrett are the caliber of players that will be available. If they're willing to hold their chips until next summer, then maybe they have the assets to go get Trey Murphy maybe Jalen Johnson isn't happy with how overcrowded the Atlanta wing rotation is and he wants to come back home. But I just don't see how we have the assets to get someone above the Wiggins/Barrett level of player until next summer.

[tedbrogen]

Call me crazy, but:

All perimeter minutes to Porter, Green, Trent, IQ, Rollins.

All big minutes to Giannis, Turner, Portis.

That's a playoff rotation, and a unique one that nobody's really set up to deal with. We'd have a real chance.

I love this plan. I’d do Kuz/AJJ/31 for IQ. Highly doubt the Raps turn that down.

[tedbrogen]

Hard to believe this board is still debating Kuzma (ok, maybe one or two people). Any minimum guy would be better than Kuzma.

He can't shoot twos or threes, is not a good finisher at the rim, bad free throw shooter and is bad at almost every offensive category. He is consistent, though.

As far as defense, he's below average. If he was the price to pay to get under the cap, then we have to live with it. But no revisionism on the guy. At a minimum salary, he's still awful.

He is a decent rebounder.

he literally was more efficient than portis was last year. again...a guy you cream over.

dont bring up blah blah blah this that from the past blah blah blah. last year.....kuzma ts% was better than portis....end of discussion..... except to say hes not great obviously...but he is playable.

kuzma has his thing and he does it. same with portis. they can get their shots. that gives them BOTH value on this team without jrue, khris, dame, etc. both of them can get their shots in their spots. we need shot creators. the only thing worse than not having shot makers is not even having shot creators. somebody on this team needs the ability to get the ball and....GO!

so if youre going to refuse to acknowledge the one while defending the other you lose credibility. kuzma does have value until we find somebody better. nobody is arguing we need to invest in the guy longterm. we all know thats nuts

Portis doesn’t kill the spacing on the court with Giannis though. Teams leave Kuz wide open. Teams respect Bobby’s shot. Bobby’s inefficiency is when they let him post up and he settles for long twos. That usually occurs with Giannis off the floor when they desperately need someone to create a shot for themselves.

There is a reason KPJ/AJG/GTJ/GA/Bobby worked while Kuz was one of two guys with a negative rating even when sharing the court with GA.

[tedbrogen]

That would only give even more relief the next 2 seasons, but after that it doesn't apply. It's only for the duration of Dame's contract. May be still usable in the 3rd offseason. That much isn't clear. But definitely not during seasons 3-5.



It's not so much the tax as aprons. They're not going to want to be over the 2nd apron long to incur penalties & reduce flexibility. So if we have to get those players later, we won't have the favorable cap sheet like now. We may use our flexibility now to lock in a team & try to go for a few yrs before resetting. Or on the margins keep churning guys for new bargains around the core - Giannis, Murphy/Garland?, Turner, KPJ?.

How is the Bucks cap sheet two years from now not as favorable as now? Dame counts for the same amount right now as he will for each of the next four seasons. And that’s before covering the cap will be going up and so will the aprons.

The Bucks only bad salary right now is Kuz and that’s gone in the next two seasons.

Aren't we trading Kuz for someone who makes like 10m more on the back end in this scenario? Then you won't have guys like KPJ, Trent, Green, & Rollins on bargain basement deals. You'll have to pay them. Or find another group of them, which seems unlikely, or you gotta go thru growing pains.

I was just comparing their current and future situation. Which is actually really good even with Dame’s hit. Obviously if you trade Kuz for someone who makes more money for more years ($6M this season is the max they can take back above Kuz alone though so $10M is hyperbole) then yeah that’s more money in future years.

[Debit One]

Just say no to Middleton.

Back to the Future was a fun movie. It’s a bad team building plan.

[Badgerlander]

Call me crazy, but:

All perimeter minutes to Porter, Green, Trent, IQ, Rollins.

All big minutes to Giannis, Turner, Portis.

That's a playoff rotation, and a unique one that nobody's really set up to deal with. We'd have a real chance.

I love this plan. I’d do Kuz/AJJ/31 for IQ. Highly doubt the Raps turn that down.

If IQ is 25 year old Jrue then I suppose

[soxperry]

Just say no to Middleton.

Back to the Future was a fun movie. It’s a bad team building plan.

Middleton making 30+ is obviously crazy at this point, but you are not going to do better than Midds on a vet min salary coming off the bench.

[BigO]

Hard to believe this board is still debating Kuzma (ok, maybe one or two people). Any minimum guy would be better than Kuzma.

He can't shoot twos or threes, is not a good finisher at the rim, bad free throw shooter and is bad at almost every offensive category. He is consistent, though.

As far as defense, he's below average. If he was the price to pay to get under the cap, then we have to live with it. But no revisionism on the guy. At a minimum salary, he's still awful.

He is a decent rebounder.

he literally was more efficient than portis was last year. again...a guy you cream over.

dont bring up blah blah blah this that from the past blah blah blah. last year.....kuzma ts% was better than portis....end of discussion..... except to say hes not great obviously...but he is playable.

kuzma has his thing and he does it. same with portis. they can get their shots. that gives them BOTH value on this team without jrue, khris, dame, etc. both of them can get their shots in their spots. we need shot creators. the only thing worse than not having shot makers is not even having shot creators. somebody on this team needs the ability to get the ball and....GO!

so if youre going to refuse to acknowledge the one while defending the other you lose credibility. kuzma does have value until we find somebody better. nobody is arguing we need to invest in the guy longterm. we all know thats nuts

I wish what y[b]ou said was true, but it is false.[/b] I gave you the stats a few days ago to show Portis is better than Kuzma and more efficient in almost every category, whether you are looking at last season or for their career.

But now you are zeroing in on just one stat, TS%. So let's look at that. I've already detailed all the other stats a few days ago.

Last season:

Kuzma 51.4%
Portis 54.2%

Of course, one stat is not the issue. Kuzma just isn't very good.

[BigO]

Team needs IQ at any price

Then replace the coach.

With Immanuel Quickley? Unorthodox but I'm intrigued

IQ as coach may increase the team's IQ.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Hard to believe this board is still debating Kuzma (ok, maybe one or two people). Any minimum guy would be better than Kuzma.

He can't shoot twos or threes, is not a good finisher at the rim, bad free throw shooter and is bad at almost every offensive category. He is consistent, though.

As far as defense, he's below average. If he was the price to pay to get under the cap, then we have to live with it. But no revisionism on the guy. At a minimum salary, he's still awful.

He is a decent rebounder.

he literally was more efficient than portis was last year. again...a guy you cream over.

dont bring up blah blah blah this that from the past blah blah blah. last year.....kuzma ts% was better than portis....end of discussion..... except to say hes not great obviously...but he is playable.

kuzma has his thing and he does it. same with portis. they can get their shots. that gives them BOTH value on this team without jrue, khris, dame, etc. both of them can get their shots in their spots. we need shot creators. the only thing worse than not having shot makers is not even having shot creators. somebody on this team needs the ability to get the ball and....GO!

so if youre going to refuse to acknowledge the one while defending the other you lose credibility. kuzma does have value until we find somebody better. nobody is arguing we need to invest in the guy longterm. we all know thats nuts

I wish what y[b]ou said was true, but it is false.[/b] I gave you the stats a few days ago to show Portis is better than Kuzma and more efficient in almost every category, whether you are looking at last season or for their career.

But now you are zeroing in on just one stat, TS%. So let's look at that. I've already detailed all the other stats a few days ago.

Last season:

Kuzma 51.4%
Portis 54.2%

Of course, one stat is not the issue. Kuzma just isn't very good.

kuzma ts% with us was 54.5%
bobby ts% with us was 54.2%

their eFG% was both 52% on the nose.

those are the numbers that measure efficiency.

those numbers are all ive referenced and im not interested in discussing anything beyond THOSE numbers.

it is a FACT that kuzma was at least as efficent as bobby was last year as a Buck. its not debateable

my point is simply that they both had value despite their inefficiency. if youre going to counter the argument by talking about kuzmas inefficiency than apply it to your analysis of bobby as well

[emunney]

Call me crazy, but:

All perimeter minutes to Porter, Green, Trent, IQ, Rollins.

All big minutes to Giannis, Turner, Portis.

That's a playoff rotation, and a unique one that nobody's really set up to deal with. We'd have a real chance.

I love this plan. I’d do Kuz/AJJ/31 for IQ. Highly doubt the Raps turn that down.

If IQ is 25 year old Jrue then I suppose

Billups for the new era.