The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

[matt131]

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[zimpy27]

Now it's official, Suns can get the Beal buyout done.

[Sunlight]

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When you somehow get rid of one overpaid shooting guard, there are two more waiting in line. Awesome.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

Exactly a fair part of the issue with this whole buyout agenda. It's concerning that we're still unnecessarily giving up value and flexibility in hasty/ shortsighted decisions. Just seems like more activity for the sake of activity with accomplishment through a long term vision or well thought out planning??

My biggest concern is the cumulative financial considerations that may rapidly put us right back over the 2nd apron threshold once our signings or acquired salaries via trade exchanges and Mark Williams extension, and even Booker's 8% scale increases possibly pushing us back over the 2nd apron again.

So we'd be right back over the 2nd apron, but now without KD or Beal, AND only having Booker and lesser ancillary pieces to help carry the load competitively, while still carrying $22.8 million cumulatively tied up in dead cap over the next few years.

But to what end really?? Do we improve, or stay a treadmilling fringe play in team with no flexibility or other franchise cornerstone pieces because other teams also hold our picks.

If we had the patience to wait and buy him out or trade him.in the following season/ summer, we could have much better options and possibly even be a major player in a very loaded 27' free agency that would catapult us back into the playoffs in two years, while our young core develops experience and chemistry.

[bullsaficianado]

Watch on YouTube

4 years ago... (can see me and the wife at 9:07 )

The 2021 NBA Finals. ugh. At least I can relate to Spurs fans after the 2013 NBA finals and that Ray Allen dagger 3. A backdoor sweep feels way worse though.

[lilfishi22]

I cannot wait for Beal to go to the Clippers with their broken old team! Clippers management has to be worse than Suns.

Clippers management is running circles around the Suns

Clippers have a team that has managed the cap very well and has a team that is legitimately a play-off caliber team. The Suns are just a circus show without a clue or vision of how to build a team. And this off-season shows they don't have a plan - they just do a series of moves and each time they react. They don't have it thought out at all. The Clippers are managing their cap brilliantly to stay under apron levels

Clippers should've been in the same position as the Suns right now. Hell it's arguable they were just a couple of years ago but they've done a fantastic job of navigating and they've set themselves up to be big time players in 2027 when the only big contract they have left on the books is Zubac's. Harden, Kawhi, Bogdanovic, Collins, DJJr are all off the books by then. Maybe they aren't a contender on the level of an OKC but they will be competitive and right now they are both under the 1st apron AND under the tax threshold.

[DirtyDez]

Just a pointless extension with 3 years still left on his deal.

[m1chal]

75M per year for a player who has a habit of disappearing in the most important games?

[Boujack]

Devin Booker is our new Bradley Beal.

[sunsbg]

Devin Booker is our new Bradley Beal.

Matty can always stretch him until 2040 right, nothing to worry about. Franchise face for 30 years this way.

[Slim Charless]

I see that $230M saved figure and it makes sense, however... it's hard to stomach all that dead money for 5 years. Also, if they were going to do it why didn't they do it at the start of free agency and not after a week? They've missed out on some signings. The FA class has been pretty weak for the most part though.

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

Exactly a fair part of the issue with this whole buyout agenda. It's concerning that we're still unnecessarily giving up value and flexibility in hasty/ shortsighted decisions. Just seems like more activity for the sake of activity with accomplishment through a long term vision or well thought out planning??

My biggest concern is the cumulative financial considerations that may rapidly put us right back over the 2nd apron threshold once our signings or acquired salaries via trade exchanges and Mark Williams extension, and even Booker's 8% scale increases possibly pushing us back over the 2nd apron again.

So we'd be right back over the 2nd apron, but now without KD or Beal, AND only having Booker and lesser ancillary pieces to help carry the load competitively, while still carrying $22.8 million cumulatively tied up in dead cap over the next few years.

But to what end really?? Do we improve, or stay a treadmilling fringe play in team with no flexibility or other franchise cornerstone pieces because other teams also hold our picks.

If we had the patience to wait and buy him out or trade him.in the following season/ summer, we could have much better options and possibly even be a major player in a very loaded 27' free agency that would catapult us back into the playoffs in two years, while our young core develops experience and chemistry.

Well said.

There's 0 reason to buy Beal out now. Just wait till the summer. I'm guessing by this time next year Booker will want out since he now has his max extension in hand.

[mkot]

I cannot wait for Beal to go to the Clippers with their broken old team! Clippers management has to be worse than Suns.

Clippers management is running circles around the Suns

Clippers have a team that has managed the cap very well and has a team that is legitimately a play-off caliber team. The Suns are just a circus show without a clue or vision of how to build a team. And this off-season shows they don't have a plan - they just do a series of moves and each time they react. They don't have it thought out at all. The Clippers are managing their cap brilliantly to stay under apron levels

Clippers should've been in the same position as the Suns right now. Hell it's arguable they were just a couple of years ago but they've done a fantastic job of navigating and they've set themselves up to be big time players in 2027 when the only big contract they have left on the books is Zubac's. Harden, Kawhi, Bogdanovic, Collins, DJJr are all off the books by then. Maybe they aren't a contender on the level of an OKC but they will be competitive and right now they are both under the 1st apron AND under the tax threshold.

So does Boston and Denver. And they still have a team that can contend for at least the next 3 years if things go well. It still surprises me how a rookie GM in Denver can pull off the MPJ for CamJo trade and they only lost 1 first rounder. No pick swap so they still have control of their own first the next 6 years.

Let's don't be like the Bucks. There's absolutely no urgency to build a playoff caliber team around Book in order to keep him happy. What is the point? At least the Bucks are doing all that for Giannis who is still a top 5 if not top 3 in this league.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

So we're basically.........................
29.9 million over the LT tax apron.
- 23 million over the 1st apron.
- 11 million over the 2nd apron.

This with not KD or Beal on our roster (soon), But only having one star /superstar in Booker. A couple of starting rotation players, some young athletic very intruiging talent, and a few vet min options possibly??

But will also have to take back equitable salary in any Allen/ O'neale trade ( unless we fan somehow aggregate them together for a large 27 million expiring contract- Collins would've been perfect, but oh well)!

- We'll still have to resign Richards with a slight increase, possibly around 8-10 million?
- We'll still have to extend Williams for at least 15-20 million or so but hopefully could get him on a reduced value of 14-16 million due to injury/ durability considerations.
- we'll still have Booker's and others scale increases to add in the next three years too.

I'm just not seeing how eating $22.8 million over the next 5 years and adding those salary increase scenarios, roster spots to fill too, etc is likely to leave us more in a more competitive situation with only a singular star player for defenses to focus in on.

Very likely still being over the 2nd apron during those years, as a fringe play in team, and not having control of our own picks and only having limited trade assets in our remaining swapped out picks and our young core talent as tradable assets with value before Booker's salary explodes to over 70+ million in 28, 29, and 30.

Can some of the many much smarter minds than I help me understand how a waive stretch Beal scenario is actually more beneficial to is now (over the next two seasons) as opposed to just letting him expire in 27 and then having upwards of 60+ million to be major players in a very loaded 27 free agency.

A free agency that could completely reload/ significantly upgrade our roster competitively without 5 yrs of paying (22 million in dead cap)for a player to help other teams beat us, and who won't even be on our team anyways?? What am I missing here in this strategy?

[Frank Lee]

Haha…. Still banging for cap space 2 years from now??? Half those players won’t be available and several teams… good ones…will have more space than us even if we ate Beal’s deal. A good portion will be sign and trades too, meaning you’ll have to give to get.

At least with a stretched Beal, we will be able to make some actual trades and obtain players for more than minimum wage. Players who might come in handy for a sign and trade… (just so you can keep your FA dreams alive)

Once (if) this stretch is enacted… how long before you will be scouring the league for a $10 mill man? That MLE can be used as a trade exception you know? Perhaps it’s a pathway to gleaning a few picks being a third team facilitator? If anything, it will spark much more trade machine activity for you dreamers.

Please don’t retort with trade Allen and O’Neal and Richards for tax savings. There are very few teams wanting to absorb pure salary. At least with jettisoning Beal, the front office has more control over their path. Surely you can acknowledge that.

[King4Day]

After being up 2-0 I was considering buying tickets to game 4 and even game 5. Game 5 tickets were super expensive, and actually game 4 tickets in Milwaukee were a bit more affordable. Ended up not going to any more games.

I would say that was the pinnacle of the Suns success as a franchise.

I got game 4 tickets and drove to Milwaukee from Charlotte the night before. Arrived around 9am of gameday exhausted. Hotel had issues getting a friend and I checked in so we were walking around until like 4pm before they finally let us check in.

Running on fumes, I got to shower and put my face paint / getup on and went to the arena. Bucks fans were great. Got to meet Mr ORNG for the first time and the person running the Suns Instagram page got a pic of us together and posted it. It was one of my favorite pics until he went criminal. Now it's buried forever.

After blowing the 9pt lead, Bucks fans went from nice to rude and heckling. One shoved a camera phone in me and my friends face, heckling, trying to get us to say something bad to make it go viral. Was a pretty bad overall experience. You're lucky you didn't go.

It didn't help that it was a back breaking defeat. I'm not sure any Suns fan really believed we were winning the series anymore after that loss.
Now imagine having to drive over 900 miles with little sleep, with that loss in the back of your mind.

[sunsfan1o1]

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

Exactly a fair part of the issue with this whole buyout agenda. It's concerning that we're still unnecessarily giving up value and flexibility in hasty/ shortsighted decisions. Just seems like more activity for the sake of activity with accomplishment through a long term vision or well thought out planning??

My biggest concern is the cumulative financial considerations that may rapidly put us right back over the 2nd apron threshold once our signings or acquired salaries via trade exchanges and Mark Williams extension, and even Booker's 8% scale increases possibly pushing us back over the 2nd apron again.

So we'd be right back over the 2nd apron, but now without KD or Beal, AND only having Booker and lesser ancillary pieces to help carry the load competitively, while still carrying $22.8 million cumulatively tied up in dead cap over the next few years.

But to what end really?? Do we improve, or stay a treadmilling fringe play in team with no flexibility or other franchise cornerstone pieces because other teams also hold our picks.

If we had the patience to wait and buy him out or trade him.in the following season/ summer, we could have much better options and possibly even be a major player in a very loaded 27' free agency that would catapult us back into the playoffs in two years, while our young core develops experience and chemistry.

Well said.

There's 0 reason to buy Beal out now. Just wait till the summer. I'm guessing by this time next year Booker will want out since he now has his max extension in hand.

I think you underestimate Booker and his loyalty. He seems like a loyal guy to the Suns franchise. I don’t think he’ll ask for a trade at all as long as the Suns are trying to be competitive.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

So we're basically.........................
29.9 million over the LT tax apron.
- 23 million over the 1st apron.
- 11 million over the 2nd apron.

This with not KD or Beal on our roster (soon), But only having one star /superstar in Booker. A couple of starting rotation players, some young athletic very intruiging talent, and a few vet min options possibly??

But will also have to take back equitable salary in any Allen/ O'neale trade ( unless we fan somehow aggregate them together for a large 27 million expiring contract- Collins would've been perfect, but oh well)!

- We'll still have to resign Richards with a slight increase, possibly around 8-10 million?
- We'll still have to extend Williams for at least 15-20 million or so but hopefully could get him on a reduced value of 14-16 million due to injury/ durability considerations.
- we'll still have Booker's and others scale increases to add in the next three years too.

I'm just not seeing how eating $22.8 million over the next 5 years and adding those salary increase scenarios, roster spots to fill too, etc is likely to leave us more in a more competitive situation with only a singular star player for defenses to focus in on.

Very likely still being over the 2nd apron during those years, as a fringe play in team, and not having control of our own picks and only having limited trade assets in our remaining swapped out picks and our young core talent as tradable assets with value before Booker's salary explodes to over 70+ million in 28, 29, and 30.

Can some of the many much smarter minds than I help me understand how a waive stretch Beal scenario is actually more beneficial to is now (over the next two seasons) as opposed to just letting him expire in 27 and then having upwards of 60+ million to be major players in a very loaded 27 free agency.

A free agency that could completely reload/ significantly upgrade our roster competitively without 5 yrs of paying (22 million in dead cap)for a player to help other teams beat us, and who won't even be on our team anyways?? What am I missing here in this strategy?

The waive and stretch saves Ishbia a bunch of cash . Period. Yes, they can aggregate salaries but who wants Allen or O'Neale for their contracts.
Richards should have been traded by now or his option not picked up
Ishbia is so bad at this

[BobbieL]

This is what I'm wondering as well. I don't really see anyone available that I'd consider a huge upgrade over what we have. If there was a difference making PF available, I'd get it, but the plan is to buy Beal out stretch him and then use our capspace on a player who is likely worse than Beal?

Also, unless I'm mistaking, second apron penalties don't come into effect if we make cap saving moves before the trade deadline. So we could easily just roll out our current roster and revisit Beal trades (or other trades that get us below the second apron) at the trade deadline. NTC aside, Beal's contract is only going to be easier to move as time passes. And especially getting the contracts of Allen, O'Neal, Richards on the cheap is going to be enticing for teams at the trade deadline looking to improve their championship chances.

It seems like Miami doesn't want to deal with us because they just expect the Suns to buy out Beal and then sign him for a discount. It's the Rockets situation all over again, teams view the Suns as an easy way to get good players on the cheap.

Exactly a fair part of the issue with this whole buyout agenda. It's concerning that we're still unnecessarily giving up value and flexibility in hasty/ shortsighted decisions. Just seems like more activity for the sake of activity with accomplishment through a long term vision or well thought out planning??

My biggest concern is the cumulative financial considerations that may rapidly put us right back over the 2nd apron threshold once our signings or acquired salaries via trade exchanges and Mark Williams extension, and even Booker's 8% scale increases possibly pushing us back over the 2nd apron again.

So we'd be right back over the 2nd apron, but now without KD or Beal, AND only having Booker and lesser ancillary pieces to help carry the load competitively, while still carrying $22.8 million cumulatively tied up in dead cap over the next few years.

But to what end really?? Do we improve, or stay a treadmilling fringe play in team with no flexibility or other franchise cornerstone pieces because other teams also hold our picks.

If we had the patience to wait and buy him out or trade him.in the following season/ summer, we could have much better options and possibly even be a major player in a very loaded 27' free agency that would catapult us back into the playoffs in two years, while our young core develops experience and chemistry.

Well said.

There's 0 reason to buy Beal out now. Just wait till the summer. I'm guessing by this time next year Booker will want out since he now has his max extension in hand.

Yep! Booker was just being "loyal" once it was floated he was going to get that additional 145m

[Sunsdeuce]

Read on Twitter

So we're basically.........................
29.9 million over the LT tax apron.
- 23 million over the 1st apron.
- 11 million over the 2nd apron.

This with not KD or Beal on our roster (soon), But only having one star /superstar in Booker. A couple of starting rotation players, some young athletic very intruiging talent, and a few vet min options possibly??

But will also have to take back equitable salary in any Allen/ O'neale trade ( unless we fan somehow aggregate them together for a large 27 million expiring contract- Collins would've been perfect, but oh well)!

- We'll still have to resign Richards with a slight increase, possibly around 8-10 million?
- We'll still have to extend Williams for at least 15-20 million or so but hopefully could get him on a reduced value of 14-16 million due to injury/ durability considerations.
- we'll still have Booker's and others scale increases to add in the next three years too.

I'm just not seeing how eating $22.8 million over the next 5 years and adding those salary increase scenarios, roster spots to fill too, etc is likely to leave us more in a more competitive situation with only a singular star player for defenses to focus in on.

Very likely still being over the 2nd apron during those years, as a fringe play in team, and not having control of our own picks and only having limited trade assets in our remaining swapped out picks and our young core talent as tradable assets with value before Booker's salary explodes to over 70+ million in 28, 29, and 30.

Can some of the many much smarter minds than I help me understand how a waive stretch Beal scenario is actually more beneficial to is now (over the next two seasons) as opposed to just letting him expire in 27 and then having upwards of 60+ million to be major players in a very loaded 27 free agency.

A free agency that could completely reload/ significantly upgrade our roster competitively without 5 yrs of paying (22 million in dead cap)for a player to help other teams beat us, and who won't even be on our team anyways?? What am I missing here in this strategy?

Not a single all-Star (sorry Booker isn’t an all-star and that’s a fact Using past all-stars selections as your evidence would apply then the same applies to Beal who by the way never was an Injury replacement unlike your boy Booker) the roster and Suns are over the 2nd Apron. Brilliant work Mr. Ishbia. With another planned five years of 15% of our salary cap used on a ghost and another 34-40% used on a non-All-Star. Dude is creating problems where they shouldn’t exist. It’s sad that if you google “worst owner in the NBA” Ishbias name is the first to show up. Whoopty do if they stretch Beal they can trade for a near retirement player on his last leg looking for a last pay day. Yeah let’s celebrate the MLE.

What Ishbia is doing isn’t a plan, it’s a lack of a plan and setting this team up for purgatory for the next half decade plus. Meh I’m use to it at this point. Only difference was back then at least I could look forward to the lottery. Now that’s even out the window.

Churching up this embarrassing disaster isn’t really my appetite. What I do want is an an actual plan, no matter now uncomfortable it may be, to resolve this monstrosity of a mess turn this mess around in less than two years, not a half decade or more.

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

So we're basically.........................
29.9 million over the LT tax apron.
- 23 million over the 1st apron.
- 11 million over the 2nd apron.

This with not KD or Beal on our roster (soon), But only having one star /superstar in Booker. A couple of starting rotation players, some young athletic very intruiging talent, and a few vet min options possibly??

But will also have to take back equitable salary in any Allen/ O'neale trade ( unless we fan somehow aggregate them together for a large 27 million expiring contract- Collins would've been perfect, but oh well)!

- We'll still have to resign Richards with a slight increase, possibly around 8-10 million?
- We'll still have to extend Williams for at least 15-20 million or so but hopefully could get him on a reduced value of 14-16 million due to injury/ durability considerations.
- we'll still have Booker's and others scale increases to add in the next three years too.

I'm just not seeing how eating $22.8 million over the next 5 years and adding those salary increase scenarios, roster spots to fill too, etc is likely to leave us more in a more competitive situation with only a singular star player for defenses to focus in on.

Very likely still being over the 2nd apron during those years, as a fringe play in team, and not having control of our own picks and only having limited trade assets in our remaining swapped out picks and our young core talent as tradable assets with value before Booker's salary explodes to over 70+ million in 28, 29, and 30.

Can some of the many much smarter minds than I help me understand how a waive stretch Beal scenario is actually more beneficial to is now (over the next two seasons) as opposed to just letting him expire in 27 and then having upwards of 60+ million to be major players in a very loaded 27 free agency.

A free agency that could completely reload/ significantly upgrade our roster competitively without 5 yrs of paying (22 million in dead cap)for a player to help other teams beat us, and who won't even be on our team anyways?? What am I missing here in this strategy?

Exactly we should just suck it up the next two years and wait to have Beal's money fully off the books and then hopefully we can sign some quality free agents on the free agent market in a couple years.

We buyout and stretch Beal we will have Beal's 20M eating away at cap space for the next half decade heavily restricting free agent signings and added to that is Booker's insane super max extension eating away at the cap as well.