Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[MoneyBall]

There's a lot to like about Keon Ellis. Such an impactful player on the defensive end with a career 3pt% of .429. He's buried on the bench in SAC and I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Ochai.

[Duffman100]

18/7/5 on 42/40/84 splits
17/6/4 on 42/38/87 splits

IQ's two seasons with the Raps.

When he plays, he one's of the better high volume, efficient 3pt shooters in the league and he provides the gravity this team needs because he can hit shots allover the court.

Once he plays consistently, people will realize the value he provides and we can finally stop talking about his contract.

This is it, he just needs to be healthy. If he isn't healthy at all, then yeah the contract sucked.

[PushDaRock]

There's a lot to like about Keon Ellis. Such an impactful player on the defensive end with a career 3pt% of .429. He's buried on the bench in SAC and I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Ochai.

lol he played about 25 mpg, how is he buried on the bench?

[DreamTeam09]

RJ, Dick, Agbaji for Trey Murphy and filler.

Trey Murphy is KD or something? with all of his injuries? coming off shoulder surgery!

It's a shoulder, not an achilles.

I would probably rank his value ahead of Scottie when considering he will be paid 28m in AAV over the next 4 seasons vs 45m in AAV over the next 5 seasons.

Trey Murphy hasn't done anything in his career Besides have a couple got stretches each szn before going down with some sort of injury.
Guys like Trey Murphy get out on a pedestal while our players by our own fans are chopped liver. Like Murphy is good, he hasn't shown/done anything consistently yet

[Tacoma]

Can we not give away RJ for peanuts, goddamn let them play some games first. Will just make the OG trade look worse

The OG trade already looks bad. I don’t think we need to make a move or non move with RJ just to save face on that trade. We need to move RJ because of flexibility.

Y'all Realgmers are really something...dont be fooled by the recent "injuries": Getting 2x20pts-scorers for OG both younger remains a steal.
A player that almost averaged a triple-double against Tatum, Brown and White at 24 will not be given 'away'.
In our current state, freshly post-Masai, it would make no sense to trade him as he is the only sure thing at the moment. Scottie was Masai's guy and vice-versa. Masai was the one hyping IQ as the cornerstone with Scottie.

RJ was viewed by many NYK fans as addition by subtraction, a guy who puts up good stats but doesn't contribute to winning. Indeed NYK has had better team results with OG starting instead of RJ. IQ was not a starter for the Knicks and while we hope he becomes more than 6th man, it remains to be seen. Overall, It was a fair trade given OG was in his contract year but not a steal by any stretch.

As for making sense or not to trade RJ now, keep in mind his contract ends in 2027, so next summer is his contract year. Unless you believe RJ's best value is as an expiring contract, do we want to repeat past mistakes and wait until players are in their final contract year to trade him?

[MoneyBall]

There's a lot to like about Keon Ellis. Such an impactful player on the defensive end with a career 3pt% of .429. He's buried on the bench in SAC and I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Ochai.

lol he played about 25 mpg, how is he buried on the bench?

I meant he's being forced to play off the bench because he's buried behind Lavine and Monk.

[PushDaRock]

Trey Murphy is KD or something? with all of his injuries? coming off shoulder surgery!

It's a shoulder, not an achilles.

I would probably rank his value ahead of Scottie when considering he will be paid 28m in AAV over the next 4 seasons vs 45m in AAV over the next 5 seasons.

Trey Murphy hasn't done anything in his career Besides have a couple got stretches each szn before going down with some sort of injury.
Guys like Trey Murphy get out on a pedestal while our players by our own fans are chopped liver. Like Murphy is good, he hasn't shown/done anything consistently yet

And what has Scottie done? Make an All-Star game as a replacement?

Murphy is highly valued because he's locked in on a great contract and took a big jump in his offensive game last season in addition to being an athletic 6"8 plus defender that can make 3's at a high rate. He is plug and play on literally any championship team and probably slots in as a 3rd option at worst on all of them.

[PushDaRock]

There's a lot to like about Keon Ellis. Such an impactful player on the defensive end with a career 3pt% of .429. He's buried on the bench in SAC and I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Ochai.

lol he played about 25 mpg, how is he buried on the bench?

I meant he's being forced to play off the bench because he's buried behind Lavine and Monk.

and he wouldn't be here?

[ConSarnit]

Can we not give away RJ for peanuts, goddamn let them play some games first. Will just make the OG trade look worse

The OG trade already looks bad. I don’t think we need to make a move or non move with RJ just to save face on that trade. We need to move RJ because of flexibility.

Y'all Realgmers are really something...dont be fooled by the recent "injuries": Getting 2x20pts-scorers for OG both younger remains a steal.
A player that almost averaged a triple-double against Tatum, Brown and White at 24 will not be given 'away'.
In our current state, freshly post-Masai, it would make no sense to trade him as he is the only sure thing at the moment. Scottie was Masai's guy and vice-versa. Masai was the one hyping IQ as the cornerstone with Scottie.

If you believe the premise of the thread (that RJ and IQ are both being shopped) then how can you justify the trade being a “steal”? If we are already looking to get off of both RJ and IQ then there is no way this deal is a steal. In fact it probably means the opposite, that we made a bad deal.

You’re going to use a 3 game sample size as a reason to keep RJ? Why didn’t you include his 3pt shooting (23%) or ft shooting (40%) against the Celtics in your argument?

[Pointgod]

Can we not give away RJ for peanuts, goddamn let them play some games first. Will just make the OG trade look worse

The OG trade already looks bad. I don’t think we need to make a move or non move with RJ just to save face on that trade. We need to move RJ because of flexibility.

Y'all Realgmers are really something...dont be fooled by the recent "injuries": Getting 2x20pts-scorers for OG both younger remains a steal.
A player that almost averaged a triple-double against Tatum, Brown and White at 24 will not be given 'away'.
In our current state, freshly post-Masai, it would make no sense to trade him as he is the only sure thing at the moment. Scottie was Masai's guy and vice-versa. Masai was the one hyping IQ as the cornerstone with Scottie.

Quickley has never averaged 20 in a full season. Barrett has scored 20 in a full season four times but the true shooting percentage but only once above league average TS%. Now you expect them to put up those same numbers with another high usage player coming in? Probably not going to happen.

It’s not the talent of the OG trade that was bad, it was the fact we took on RJ’s contract and extended Quickley which limited our flexibility. We’re paying 60 million for those two which limits the ability to sign other players.

[MoneyBall]

lol he played about 25 mpg, how is he buried on the bench?

I meant he's being forced to play off the bench because he's buried behind Lavine and Monk.

and he wouldn't be here?

Behind who? RJ is traded, and he's better than Ochai, Dick, and JaKobe.

[ConSarnit]

lol he played about 25 mpg, how is he buried on the bench?

I meant he's being forced to play off the bench because he's buried behind Lavine and Monk.

and he wouldn't be here?

Agbaji:

10/4/2 in 27mpg on 40% 3pt

Ellis:

8/3/2 in 25 mpg on 43% 3pt

I just don’t see how Ellis is a clear upgrade over Agbaji.

[PushDaRock]

The OG trade already looks bad. I don’t think we need to make a move or non move with RJ just to save face on that trade. We need to move RJ because of flexibility.

Y'all Realgmers are really something...dont be fooled by the recent "injuries": Getting 2x20pts-scorers for OG both younger remains a steal.
A player that almost averaged a triple-double against Tatum, Brown and White at 24 will not be given 'away'.
In our current state, freshly post-Masai, it would make no sense to trade him as he is the only sure thing at the moment. Scottie was Masai's guy and vice-versa. Masai was the one hyping IQ as the cornerstone with Scottie.

RJ was viewed by many NYK fans as addition by subtraction, a guy who puts up good stats but doesn't contribute to winning. Indeed NYK has had better team results with OG starting instead of RJ. IQ was not a starter for the Knicks and while we hope he becomes more than 6th man, it remains to be seen. Overall, It was a fair trade given OG was in his contract year but not a steal by any stretch.

As for making sense or not to trade RJ now, keep in mind his contract ends in 2027, so next summer is his contract year. Unless you believe RJ's best value is as an expiring contract, do we want to repeat past mistakes and wait until players are in their final contract year to trade him?

If you look at the trade market, clearly no teams are trying to take on significant salary for multiple years. I think that makes it pretty clear you probably aren't getting back much if any value trading RJ right now and that he would have more suitors as an expiring.

[MoneyBall]

I meant he's being forced to play off the bench because he's buried behind Lavine and Monk.

and he wouldn't be here?

Agbaji:

10/4/2 in 27mpg on 40% 3pt

Ellis:

8/3/2 in 25 mpg on 43% 3pt

I just don’t see how Ellis is a clear upgrade over Agbaji.

Defense is also kind of important.

[PushDaRock]

I meant he's being forced to play off the bench because he's buried behind Lavine and Monk.

and he wouldn't be here?

Behind who? RJ is traded, and he's better than Ochai, Dick, and JaKobe.

ahhh so you think all of our younger players are trash

[ConSarnit]

and he wouldn't be here?

Agbaji:

10/4/2 in 27mpg on 40% 3pt

Ellis:

8/3/2 in 25 mpg on 43% 3pt

I just don’t see how Ellis is a clear upgrade over Agbaji.

Defense is also kind of important.

?

Agbaji is a good defender. Prior to him finding his 3pt shot last season that was literally his greatest skill.

[MoneyBall]

Agbaji:

10/4/2 in 27mpg on 40% 3pt

Ellis:

8/3/2 in 25 mpg on 43% 3pt

I just don’t see how Ellis is a clear upgrade over Agbaji.

Defense is also kind of important.

?

Agbaji is a good defender. Prior to him finding his 3pt shot last season that was literally his greatest skill.

Do you not know who Keon Ellis is? It's ok if you don't, but to say Ochai is on the same level as him defensively is laughable. Ellis ranks in the 99th percentile in block rate and 88th percentile is steal rate among combo guards. He finished 2nd in the NBA in deflections per 36 minutes. DeRozan likened Ellis to Alex Coruso. His DBPM of 2.0 ranks him #3 among all SG's and #1 among all bench SG.

[Pointgod]

Y'all Realgmers are really something...dont be fooled by the recent "injuries": Getting 2x20pts-scorers for OG both younger remains a steal.
A player that almost averaged a triple-double against Tatum, Brown and White at 24 will not be given 'away'.
In our current state, freshly post-Masai, it would make no sense to trade him as he is the only sure thing at the moment. Scottie was Masai's guy and vice-versa. Masai was the one hyping IQ as the cornerstone with Scottie.

RJ was viewed by many NYK fans as addition by subtraction, a guy who puts up good stats but doesn't contribute to winning. Indeed NYK has had better team results with OG starting instead of RJ. IQ was not a starter for the Knicks and while we hope he becomes more than 6th man, it remains to be seen. Overall, It was a fair trade given OG was in his contract year but not a steal by any stretch.

As for making sense or not to trade RJ now, keep in mind his contract ends in 2027, so next summer is his contract year. Unless you believe RJ's best value is as an expiring contract, do we want to repeat past mistakes and wait until players are in their final contract year to trade him?

If you look at the trade market, clearly no teams are trying to take on significant salary for multiple years. I think that makes it pretty clear you probably aren't getting back much if any value trading RJ right now and that he would have more suitors as an expiring.

Do you think we’re willing to lose Agbaji to keep RJ?

[PushDaRock]

RJ was viewed by many NYK fans as addition by subtraction, a guy who puts up good stats but doesn't contribute to winning. Indeed NYK has had better team results with OG starting instead of RJ. IQ was not a starter for the Knicks and while we hope he becomes more than 6th man, it remains to be seen. Overall, It was a fair trade given OG was in his contract year but not a steal by any stretch.

As for making sense or not to trade RJ now, keep in mind his contract ends in 2027, so next summer is his contract year. Unless you believe RJ's best value is as an expiring contract, do we want to repeat past mistakes and wait until players are in their final contract year to trade him?

If you look at the trade market, clearly no teams are trying to take on significant salary for multiple years. I think that makes it pretty clear you probably aren't getting back much if any value trading RJ right now and that he would have more suitors as an expiring.

Do you think we’re willing to lose Agbaji to keep RJ?

Not sure how that's relevant right now, we don't have to make that decision yet and they could even keep both if they really wanted to. We can let on court performance and seeing how everything fits on the team to dictate that.

[MoneyBall]

and he wouldn't be here?

Behind who? RJ is traded, and he's better than Ochai, Dick, and JaKobe.

ahhh so you think all of our younger players are trash

Um no. You said Ellis would be buried behind those guys when he's clearly the better player. If you want to argue that Ochai or Dick are better players, be my guest.