MIL - SAC

[sackings916]

He's been famously awful. This isn't news, it isn't controversial.

What facts back this narrative up?

He has a 50% True shooting percentage in the playoffs. He's terrible.

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

[psman2]

What facts back this narrative up?

He has a 50% True shooting percentage in the playoffs. He's terrible.

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

DeMar DeRozan has the lowest career plus/minus in the playoffs when playing 30+ minutes, at -373. He has been the least impactful playoff starter ever in the modern stat era.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

What facts back this narrative up?

He has a 50% True shooting percentage in the playoffs. He's terrible.

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

It's terrible for somebody who only skill is scoring. Not like he out there giving you elite defense while he being an offensive liability. 50 TS% has nothing to do his era. It was always a terrible percentage his whole career.

The metric doesn't reward anything. It's just points per possession in different font. They are the same thing.

[sackings916]

He has a 50% True shooting percentage in the playoffs. He's terrible.

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

DeMar DeRozan has the lowest career plus/minus in the playoffs when playing 30+ minutes, at -373. He has been the least impactful playoff starter ever in the modern stat era.

This is a team stat, and again most of DeRozans playoff stats are against prime LeBron and an elite Cavs defense. So this stat is a little misleading.

[sackings916]

He has a 50% True shooting percentage in the playoffs. He's terrible.

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

It's terrible for somebody who only skill is scoring. Not like he out there giving you elite defense while he being an offensive liability. 50 TS% has nothing to do his era. It was always a terrible percentage his whole career.

The metric doesn't reward anything. It's just points per possession in different font. They are the same thing.

TS% is points per shot attempt and adjusted for 2s, 3s, and FTs. In the 2016 playoffs the avg TS% in the playoffs was about 53%, so again 50% is below league average but terrible is a stretch in that era. He’s definitely flawed and not a top playoff performer, but a lot of his playoff stats are against prime Bron and in a slower paced era. Saying DeRozan is terrible is ignoring a lot of context.

[pipfan]

DDR is a good player still. Miami should make an offer with Rozier and something

[bpcox05]

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

It's terrible for somebody who only skill is scoring. Not like he out there giving you elite defense while he being an offensive liability. 50 TS% has nothing to do his era. It was always a terrible percentage his whole career.

The metric doesn't reward anything. It's just points per possession in different font. They are the same thing.

TS% is points per shot attempt and adjusted for 2s, 3s, and FTs. In the 2016 playoffs the avg TS% in the playoffs was about 53%, so again 50% is below league average but terrible is a stretch in that era. He’s definitely flawed and not a top playoff performer, but a lot of his playoff stats are against prime Bron and in a slower paced era. Saying DeRozan is terrible is ignoring a lot of context.

The other thing to keep in mind is that DeRozan was the #1 option in all of his playoff games. This trade puts him next to a true, championship level #1 option in Giannis. I’d expect DeRozan’s efficiency to go up considering a lot of the defense’s attention will be focused on stopping Giannis.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Yes that’s true and for the modern era that is below average, but most of DeRozans playoff stats were before this current pace and space era, so historically that’s not a terrible TS%. And DeRozans style of play will always hurt his TS%, as that metric rewards 3pt% and FT % which we can conclude there are less fouls called in the playoffs vs the regular season. So I agree his TS% is lower in the playoffs, but IMO “terrible” is a stretch.

It's terrible for somebody who only skill is scoring. Not like he out there giving you elite defense while he being an offensive liability. 50 TS% has nothing to do his era. It was always a terrible percentage his whole career.

The metric doesn't reward anything. It's just points per possession in different font. They are the same thing.

TS% is points per shot attempt and adjusted for 2s, 3s, and FTs. In the 2016 playoffs the avg TS% in the playoffs was about 53%, so again 50% is below league average but terrible is a stretch in that era. He’s definitely flawed and not a top playoff performer, but a lot of his playoff stats are against prime Bron and in a slower paced era. Saying DeRozan is terrible is ignoring a lot of context.

He had a 46% TS in the 2016 playoffs. Once again that is terrible for your scoring non defensive option.

2016 vs heat: 44% TS
2016 vs pacers: 40 % TS
2016 vs Cavs: 56% TS

He actually played his best series against the Cavs. I don't see the connection for being slower pace means he should not be efficient

[M-C-G]

Anyone know how to change your vote, I don’t want to become known as the one guy on the planet that voted MKE won this trade by a lot.

[M-C-G]

Not only including the first but the audacity to make it unprotected was absolutely wild inclusion.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

It's terrible for somebody who only skill is scoring. Not like he out there giving you elite defense while he being an offensive liability. 50 TS% has nothing to do his era. It was always a terrible percentage his whole career.

The metric doesn't reward anything. It's just points per possession in different font. They are the same thing.

TS% is points per shot attempt and adjusted for 2s, 3s, and FTs. In the 2016 playoffs the avg TS% in the playoffs was about 53%, so again 50% is below league average but terrible is a stretch in that era. He’s definitely flawed and not a top playoff performer, but a lot of his playoff stats are against prime Bron and in a slower paced era. Saying DeRozan is terrible is ignoring a lot of context.

The other thing to keep in mind is that DeRozan was the #1 option in all of his playoff games. This trade puts him next to a true, championship level #1 option in Giannis. I’d expect DeRozan’s efficiency to go up considering a lot of the defense’s attention will be focused on stopping Giannis.

How he going to benefit from playing with Giannis or any other first option? 55% of his shots come between 10 feet and the 3 point line.DD can't shoot or play off ball. Doesn't get off shots close to the rim at 35 like he did in his raptors days.

I would expect his game to stay relatively the same if not get worse playing with a true 1

[sackings916]

It's terrible for somebody who only skill is scoring. Not like he out there giving you elite defense while he being an offensive liability. 50 TS% has nothing to do his era. It was always a terrible percentage his whole career.

The metric doesn't reward anything. It's just points per possession in different font. They are the same thing.

TS% is points per shot attempt and adjusted for 2s, 3s, and FTs. In the 2016 playoffs the avg TS% in the playoffs was about 53%, so again 50% is below league average but terrible is a stretch in that era. He’s definitely flawed and not a top playoff performer, but a lot of his playoff stats are against prime Bron and in a slower paced era. Saying DeRozan is terrible is ignoring a lot of context.

He had a 46% TS in the 2016 playoffs. Once again that is terrible for your scoring non defensive option.

2016 vs heat: 44% TS
2016 vs pacers: 40 % TS
2016 vs Cavs: 56% TS

He actually played his best series against the Cavs. I don't see the connection for being slower pace means he should not be efficient

You’re correct that a slower pace doesn’t excuse inefficiency. But it does mean there are fewer possessions, so in a smaller sample like a playoff series (4–7 games), each miss carries more weight when you’re looking at TS%. And back in the 2010s, spacing wasn’t what it is today especially on a team like the Raptors, who ran a lot of iso-heavy sets.

I’m not even a Raptors fan, but just from looking at those teams, I’d bet opponents’ entire game plans were focused on stopping DeRozan. When that’s the case and your team is flawed, doesn’t have dynamic ball movement or shooters to take pressure off it magnifies inefficiencies.

I get that great players are expected to rise above that. And DeRozan isn’t a superstar-level playoff performer. But calling him terrible still ignores a lot of context like matchups, team construction, and scheme. He’s underwhelming in the playoffs for sure.

[daoneandonly]

Kuz and DDR are a wash, both losing basketball players so neither team should add incentive

[AussieBuck]

TS% is points per shot attempt and adjusted for 2s, 3s, and FTs. In the 2016 playoffs the avg TS% in the playoffs was about 53%, so again 50% is below league average but terrible is a stretch in that era. He’s definitely flawed and not a top playoff performer, but a lot of his playoff stats are against prime Bron and in a slower paced era. Saying DeRozan is terrible is ignoring a lot of context.

The other thing to keep in mind is that DeRozan was the #1 option in all of his playoff games. This trade puts him next to a true, championship level #1 option in Giannis. I’d expect DeRozan’s efficiency to go up considering a lot of the defense’s attention will be focused on stopping Giannis.

How he going to benefit from playing with Giannis or any other first option? 55% of his shots come between 10 feet and the 3 point line.DD can't shoot or play off ball. Doesn't get off shots close to the rim at 35 like he did in his raptors days.

I would expect his game to stay relatively the same if not get worse playing with a true 1

Yeah he operates in exactly the same space that your typical superstar operates from. So he's taking up prime real estate to do what a star does but terribly. Pair that with his horrid D and you get one of the worst playoff performers of the modern era.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Kuz and DDR are a wash, both losing basketball players so neither team should add incentive

Not sure what got into kuzma. Going from shooting 75 percent at the line to shooting 63 percent is atrocious. Seem like he could care less about improving his skill set.

[M-C-G]

Kuz and DDR are a wash, both losing basketball players so neither team should add incentive

Not sure what got into kuzma. Going from shooting 75 percent at the line to shooting 63 percent is atrocious. Seem like he could care less about improving his skill set.

I do think when paid guys go to crap teams like WAS, they mail it in. When we first traded for him he looked great defensively and reserved (in a good way) offensively. Lasted like 10 games.

[bpcox05]

Kuz and DDR are a wash, both losing basketball players so neither team should add incentive

Well…you’re half right

[bpcox05]

How he going to benefit from playing with Giannis or any other first option? 55% of his shots come between 10 feet and the 3 point line.DD can't shoot or play off ball. Doesn't get off shots close to the rim at 35 like he did in his raptors days.

I would expect his game to stay relatively the same if not get worse playing with a true 1

Yeah he operates in exactly the same space that your typical superstar operates from. So he's taking up prime real estate to do what a star does but terribly. Pair that with his horrid D and you get one of the worst playoff performers of the modern era.

Well for starters, he’s not the main person being schemed to slow down. That’s important. Secondly, it may result in instances where a team puts a better defender on Giannis vs. putting him on DeRozan allowing him to take advantage. For example, the Knicks might task Anunoby with defending Giannis, but if DeRozan was on a team without Giannis, he may very well draw Anunoby as his defender. That matters as well.

I mentioned this in another thread, but saying DeRozan “can’t shoot” is a little disingenuous. He’s not Andre Roberson out there, and in fact, he has shot 39% from the corner 3 the past 2 seasons. That’s important to consider when you think about how he fits with a team.

The other thing I’d like to point out is how drastically different the shot profiles are between Giannis and DeRozan. 70.6% of Giannis’ shots last year were from between 0-10 ft and 76.4% of DeRozan’s shots last year were from 10+ ft. I don’t see them getting in each others way especially since DeRozan has been knocking down the corner 3 at a good rate and is an underrated passer (meaning if someone is sagging off Giannis for whatever reason, DeRozan can find him).

[giannis and 1]

Bucks are not giving up a first for Derozan. End of story.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

How he going to benefit from playing with Giannis or any other first option? 55% of his shots come between 10 feet and the 3 point line.DD can't shoot or play off ball. Doesn't get off shots close to the rim at 35 like he did in his raptors days.

I would expect his game to stay relatively the same if not get worse playing with a true 1

Yeah he operates in exactly the same space that your typical superstar operates from. So he's taking up prime real estate to do what a star does but terribly. Pair that with his horrid D and you get one of the worst playoff performers of the modern era.

Well for starters, he’s not the main person being schemed to slow down. That’s important. Secondly, it may result in instances where a team puts a better defender on Giannis vs. putting him on DeRozan allowing him to take advantage. For example, the Knicks might task Anunoby with defending Giannis, but if DeRozan was on a team without Giannis, he may very well draw Anunoby as his defender. That matters as well.

I mentioned this in another thread, but saying DeRozan “can’t shoot” is a little disingenuous. He’s not Andre Roberson out there, and in fact, he has shot 39% from the corner 3 the past 2 seasons. That’s important to consider when you think about how he fits with a team.

The other thing I’d like to point out is how drastically different the shot profiles are between Giannis and DeRozan. 70.6% of Giannis’ shots last year were from between 0-10 ft and 76.4% of DeRozan’s shots last year were from 10+ ft. I don’t see them getting in each others way especially since DeRozan has been knocking down the corner 3 at a good rate and is an underrated passer (meaning if someone is sagging off Giannis for whatever reason, DeRozan can find him).

Problem with the corner 3 argument. Bucks had players that hit corner 3s at 45 to 50 percent clip last season. its a big down grade putting somebody there to hit 38 percent there.

You can't put most perimeter defenders on Giannis, too strong . DD would still be getting the best perimeter defender.

I don't think one player primary working in the paint and one primary working at the free throw line is modern spacing. DD defender will always be in help position against Giannis. Especially if DD only can shoot corner 3s.

DD a fine player for regular season but seems like mental gymnastics to try to justify his previous performances and fit. Could he help the Bucks? Sure, he can score, pass and draw fouls. But I don't see a path for an efficiency boost with at his age and skillset. Need offball skills or shooting to get an efficient boost.