Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[mademan]

I think Barrett for Kuzma is looking likely.

With a 1st, sure. But Kuz is a culture killer. I would avoid it unless the 1st was lightly protected

[ash_k]

I think Barrett for Kuzma is looking likely.

fireable offense to trade a player about to turn 30 that just choked in the playoffs for a player that just turned 25 doing 20+|5+|5+|50FG%

[God Squad]

I think Barrett for Kuzma is looking likely.

FOH.

[Kingsway_fan]

I think Barrett for Kuzma is looking likely.

fireable offense to trade a player about to turn 30 that just choked in the playoffs for a player that just turned 25 doing 20+|5+|5+|50FG%

Moves like that get a gm fired , asap

[Potential]

Hell no to Kuzma. Outside of that I would like to see a deal right now just to see a deal. I wanna feel the rush. We were teased with the rumors of having a big offseason but all we had was the draft day excitement and that's it. Make a move Bobby!

[causal_fan]

Hell no to Kuzma. Outside of that I would like to see a deal right now just to see a deal. I wanna feel the rush. We were teased with the rumors of having a big offseason but all we had was the draft day excitement and that's it. Make a move Bobby!

Why? the season doesn't start until October 21st. Take all the time you need Bobby - make the smart deal or no deal at all!

[alan_156]

Has their been any rumors of the raptors still shopping RJ or Quickley since the draft or can we close this thread already?!

[ConSarnit]

Defense is also kind of important.

?

Agbaji is a good defender. Prior to him finding his 3pt shot last season that was literally his greatest skill.

Do you not know who Keon Ellis is? It's ok if you don't, but to say Ochai is on the same level as him defensively is laughable. Ellis ranks in the 99th percentile in block rate and 88th percentile is steal rate among combo guards. He finished 2nd in the NBA in deflections per 36 minutes. DeRozan likened Ellis to Alex Coruso. His DBPM of 2.0 ranks him #3 among all SG's and #1 among all bench SG.

The gap between him and Agbaji isn’t big if there is any at all. 1) having your own teammate prop you up isn’t some definitive proof of anything. 2) if you actually knew anything about advanced defensive stats you’d know that DPBM is bunk. 3) If Ellis is great defender why is his DFG +2%? Why are players shooting better against him than their average? Agbaji is -2% DFG if you’re wondering Caruso has a -7% DFG. Now, is DFG% the be all end all of defense? No. But neither is steal rate. That doesn’t even mention his piddling defensive rebound rate (bottom 10th percentile for rotation guard). Does it also not stand to reason that Ellis had easier defensive assignments coming off the bench? Agbaji started 60% of his games last year, Ellis started around 33%.

Ellis might be better than Agbaji on defense but it’s not as clear cut as you’re making it out to be.

[PushDaRock]

RJ is a cornerstone? No, and it is mainly because you know his next contract likely pushes Toronto to a second apron and we also have to think about extensions for Dick and Walter who both can surpass RJ's level of play.

RJ has been 6 years in the league and he benefitted from Darko's system which played to his strengths. This is the best time to cash in while his value is at an all-time high. Otherwise you get stuck in a Jeremy Grant situation where you end up stuck with a guy on a long deal that is hard to move.

It is great that RJ gets to the rim but we also have Scottie Barnes and CMB that can do similar things as wing/forwards. Not to mention Walter and Quickley also wanting to drive the ball. Waiting until the playoffs for some type of proof seems like a poor plan. If he fails to perform then the value really plummets.

What exactly are we cashing in on? Do you think teams right now view the 2 years left on his deal as a positive or a negative?

He is not an expiring deal and coming off the best scoring season of his career efficiency-wise. I do think teams see value in RJ if they have room for a future deal with him.

The Kings seem ideal because of the Scott Perry connection - he drafted RJ in NY.

Brooklyn and Washington have capacity and need for a player like RJ.

Maybe the Bucks would take a swing thinking he can replace some of the lost guard play they had from Lillard.

Yeah, I think it's not likely you're getting value back for RJ. With the Kings, it would be more of a lateral move. Maybe you get a protected pick back in addition to some sort of Monk + filler package to make the deal work. While you save some AAV on Monk, you're also taking on an extra year with his player option he has. It's also a downgrade in talent.

You aren't getting anything useful from BKN or Washington who are both tanking. They aren't offering their picks for RJ and won't be trading any young players either.

The Bucks would be unloading Kuzma on us who has negative value both in contract and on the floor. We might get back a protected pick to take that on but you're essentially dumping RJ for nothing in this scenario.

[PushDaRock]

He'd be a starter, and a better one than anyone we currently have. Again, which one of those guys is better than Ellis?

He started games in SAC as well, the point is his role here wouldn't be much different than it is there.

He started those games due to injuries, not because he's their #1 SG. He would be our #1 SG with the strong possibility of getting more than 24mpg. His role would definitely change.

He's a 12% USG guy. Unless you think he has a lot more in his offensive game he hasn't shown yet, it's unlikely his role would change much on this team.

[MoneyBall]

?

Agbaji is a good defender. Prior to him finding his 3pt shot last season that was literally his greatest skill.

Do you not know who Keon Ellis is? It's ok if you don't, but to say Ochai is on the same level as him defensively is laughable. Ellis ranks in the 99th percentile in block rate and 88th percentile is steal rate among combo guards. He finished 2nd in the NBA in deflections per 36 minutes. DeRozan likened Ellis to Alex Coruso. His DBPM of 2.0 ranks him #3 among all SG's and #1 among all bench SG.

The gap between him and Agbaji isn’t big if there is any at all. 1) having your own teammate prop you up isn’t some definitive proof of anything. 2) if you actually knew anything about advanced defensive stats you’d know that DPBM is bunk. 3) If Ellis is great defender why is his DFG +2%? Why are players shooting better against him than their average? Agbaji is -2% DFG if you’re wondering Caruso has a -7% DFG. Now, is DFG% the be all end all of defense? No. But neither is steal rate. That doesn’t even mention his piddling defensive rebound rate (bottom 10th percentile for rotation guard). Does it also not stand to reason that Ellis had easier defensive assignments coming off the bench? Agbaji started 60% of his games last year, Ellis started around 33%.

Ellis might be better than Agbaji on defense but it’s not as clear cut as you’re making it out to be.

Dismissing a stat entirely as “bunk” without explaining why it's invalid is a cop-out.

DBPM isn’t perfect - no single stat is - but it’s also not ‘bunk.’ It’s based on box score data like steals, blocks, defensive rebounds, and team performance while the player is on the floor. And consistently, players with strong defensive instincts and on-ball impact tend to show up well in DBPM.

If DBPM were truly ‘bunk,’ players like Jrue Holiday, Draymond Green, and Alex Caruso wouldn't consistently score well in it (yet they do). Likewise, poor defenders would score well, and yet they consistently don't.

In Ellis' case, his DBPM is significantly higher than Agbaji’s across the board, and that’s backed up by other metrics too - like Defensive EPM, DLEBRON, and on/off defensive rating impact. You don’t have to take DBPM as gospel, but when every major metric is pointing in the same direction, it’s pretty clear Ellis has a stronger defensive presence.

[MoneyBall]

He started games in SAC as well, the point is his role here wouldn't be much different than it is there.

He started those games due to injuries, not because he's their #1 SG. He would be our #1 SG with the strong possibility of getting more than 24mpg. His role would definitely change.

He's a 12% USG guy. Unless you think he has a lot more in his offensive game he hasn't shown yet, it's unlikely his role would change much on this team.

Being on the floor with 5 mins left in a close game is a bigger role than watching Lavine/Monk/DeRozan on the floor from the bench.

[dTox]

I think Barrett for Kuzma is looking likely.

I haven't been exactly on top of things lately when it comes to Raptors rumors, but source?

[Dalek]

What exactly are we cashing in on? Do you think teams right now view the 2 years left on his deal as a positive or a negative?

He is not an expiring deal and coming off the best scoring season of his career efficiency-wise. I do think teams see value in RJ if they have room for a future deal with him.

The Kings seem ideal because of the Scott Perry connection - he drafted RJ in NY.

Brooklyn and Washington have capacity and need for a player like RJ.

Maybe the Bucks would take a swing thinking he can replace some of the lost guard play they had from Lillard.

Yeah, I think it's not likely you're getting value back for RJ. With the Kings, it would be more of a lateral move. Maybe you get a protected pick back in addition to some sort of Monk + filler package to make the deal work. While you save some AAV on Monk, you're also taking on an extra year with his player option he has. It's also a downgrade in talent.

You aren't getting anything useful from BKN or Washington who are both tanking. They aren't offering their picks for RJ and won't be trading any young players either.

The Bucks would be unloading Kuzma on us who has negative value both in contract and on the floor. We might get back a protected pick to take that on but you're essentially dumping RJ for nothing in this scenario.

I mean why wouldn't the Wizards or Nets give up a pick(s) that they have surplus of, if they want RJ? He offers talent and leadership they don't have and he is in his prime. Toronto is in surplus of wing talent so we are operating from a different place.

I don't want Kuzma for TO, but it doesn't mean Milwaukee or any team for that matter deals one for one. You just need a third team to get things happening.

I do like the Kings best. I think Monk's contract can be one of the best value deals in the league. He is a great competitor, doesn't get hurt much, and can play two-ways and be a force. If you can get Devin Carter or Keegan Murray with Monk it's a homerun. Rookie deals with RFA status is optimal for our own team building and I like both players.

[PushDaRock]

He is not an expiring deal and coming off the best scoring season of his career efficiency-wise. I do think teams see value in RJ if they have room for a future deal with him.

The Kings seem ideal because of the Scott Perry connection - he drafted RJ in NY.

Brooklyn and Washington have capacity and need for a player like RJ.

Maybe the Bucks would take a swing thinking he can replace some of the lost guard play they had from Lillard.

Yeah, I think it's not likely you're getting value back for RJ. With the Kings, it would be more of a lateral move. Maybe you get a protected pick back in addition to some sort of Monk + filler package to make the deal work. While you save some AAV on Monk, you're also taking on an extra year with his player option he has. It's also a downgrade in talent.

You aren't getting anything useful from BKN or Washington who are both tanking. They aren't offering their picks for RJ and won't be trading any young players either.

The Bucks would be unloading Kuzma on us who has negative value both in contract and on the floor. We might get back a protected pick to take that on but you're essentially dumping RJ for nothing in this scenario.

I mean why wouldn't the Wizards or Nets give up a pick(s) that they have surplus of, if they want RJ? He offers talent and leadership they don't have and he is in his prime. Toronto is in surplus of wing talent so we are operating from a different place.

I don't want Kuzma for TO, but it doesn't mean Milwaukee or any team for that matter deals one for one. You just need a third team to get things happening.

I do like the Kings best. I think Monk's contract can be one of the best value deals in the league. He is a great competitor, doesn't get hurt much, and can play two-ways and be a force. If you can get Devin Carter or Keegan Murray with Monk it's a homerun. Rookie deals with RFA status is optimal for our own team building and I like both players.

We do not have a surplus of wing talent. We have a surplus of wings, that's a big difference.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Tor_Raps]

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Damn... we're shopping but no one's buying lol.

Was really hoping for a consolidation trade that would have moved us up a level

[LarSiN]

The IQ contract will be fine. He'll have a bounce back season and his contract is flat the whole way (even as the cap rises). Sure, he has to prove it, but he's better than last year.

[Jerry Lucas]

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Just more nails in the coffin for the "RJ doesn't have to go anywhere" crowd.

I'm going to keep saying this until the tax ducking deniers/RJ defenders get it, but the Raptors FO's Plan A was for RJ to not even be here this season. Unfortunately for Masai and Bobby, the Pelicans did not bite on RJ like they were hoping as the main salary filler for the Ingram trade.

Based on historical precedent they probably try to dangle RJ and a lotto-protected FRP at the deadline for an asset upgrade on RJ that makes enough less than him that it also helps them duck the tax, like when they dangled Dragic and a FRP at the 2022 deadline. Except this time the bar for asset upgrade is much higher, because Dragic wouldn't even play for the team. If they are once again unsuccessful in moving RJ by the deadline this season, they probably pivot to getting value for Ochai (which will be easy because of how cheap he is, being on the last year of his rookie scale).

[RoyceDa59]

I like IQ because he can actually shoot and spread the floor. I’d rather keep him and ship RJ.