PF targets

[TPA]

Tobias is underwhelming as a starter, but a great guy to have as 6th-7th man.

Tobias was probably our best all-around player in the playoffs.

I agree. I'm happy to ride Tobias till the wheels fall off. Even if his production falls off a bit this year, I'd still be trying to lock him up for a couple more at a reasonable rate.

[NYPiston]

I agree, it is a massive jump, no question, and it is a nice change of pace to be discussing this instead of next years lotto already.

The main reasons I am so confident if the Pistons add PJ are having Harris off the bench, wich would be a rock solid PF rotation immediately (position off weakness to one of strength overnight) and Boston, Indiana, Milwaukee, all crashing out. Even if they were all healthy and complete, I would still be confident on getting to the 2nd round, with a shot at advancing.

Another key piece of this, is Ivey. He was really blossoming, and if he becomes the Jwill to Cade, as Jwill is to SGA, well, yeah. The team is gonna be a beast, regardless of what happens.

Another possibility is Herb Jones, who I love, but he is more of a SF/PF, then a PF/SF. His defense is fantastic, and he absolutely can shoot the ball, albeit on lower volume.

I'm hoping Langdon doesn't pass on an upgrade. The team as is, is going to be better, with a better record then last year, but if he adds a legit starting PF, and the team can bring Harris off the bench, its gonna be an amazing season for everyone.

I agree, a legit 4 that can stretch the court would vault this team to another level (it's really their only clear hole) but I'm not sure if Washington is that guy. Is he much better than Tobias? Youth is certainly on his side but he's another undersized guy who is an inconsistent long range shooter. I wouldn't be adverse to bringing him in but I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade at the 4 to be worth the assets it might cost.

Ivey is the big X Factor in all of this. The Pistons ceiling is highly dependent on Ivey continuing to grow into a legit #2 option which he isn't quite yet. If he develops into that with Cade going to grow his star status and Ausar/Holland on the wing and Stew's defense, this team has a very high ceiling. Duren I'm not sold on, even with his improvements last season he's still a below average defender and is a pure rim runner so he's limited offensively. His free throw shooting is a big plus for a center but I question his Basketball IQ and how much grow he has left in his game.

[Cowology]

Tobias is underwhelming as a starter, but a great guy to have as 6th-7th man.

Tobias was probably our best all-around player in the playoffs.

I agree. I'm happy to ride Tobias till the wheels fall off. Even if his production falls off a bit this year, I'd still be trying to lock him up for a couple more at a reasonable rate.

I want to see him retire a Piston. I get the economics of wanting/needing his salary to make certain theoretical moves possible...but I'm a fan.

In my brain I've always equated him to Uncle Cliffy and the role played with those early 2000's teams, but I want to see him transition into more of Haslem. The dude is solid. On the court. Off the court. He's good people.

[GreekAlex]

Tobias was probably our best all-around player in the playoffs.

I agree. I'm happy to ride Tobias till the wheels fall off. Even if his production falls off a bit this year, I'd still be trying to lock him up for a couple more at a reasonable rate.

I want to see him retire a Piston. I get the economics of wanting/needing his salary to make certain theoretical moves possible...but I'm a fan.

In my brain I've always equated him to Uncle Cliffy and the role played with those early 2000's teams, but I want to see him transition into more of Haslem. The dude is solid. On the court. Off the court. He's good people.

I couldn’t have said it better!

[zeebneeb]

I agree, it is a massive jump, no question, and it is a nice change of pace to be discussing this instead of next years lotto already.

The main reasons I am so confident if the Pistons add PJ are having Harris off the bench, wich would be a rock solid PF rotation immediately (position off weakness to one of strength overnight) and Boston, Indiana, Milwaukee, all crashing out. Even if they were all healthy and complete, I would still be confident on getting to the 2nd round, with a shot at advancing.

Another key piece of this, is Ivey. He was really blossoming, and if he becomes the Jwill to Cade, as Jwill is to SGA, well, yeah. The team is gonna be a beast, regardless of what happens.

Another possibility is Herb Jones, who I love, but he is more of a SF/PF, then a PF/SF. His defense is fantastic, and he absolutely can shoot the ball, albeit on lower volume.

I'm hoping Langdon doesn't pass on an upgrade. The team as is, is going to be better, with a better record then last year, but if he adds a legit starting PF, and the team can bring Harris off the bench, its gonna be an amazing season for everyone.

I agree, a legit 4 that can stretch the court would vault this team to another level (it's really their only clear hole) but I'm not sure if Washington is that guy. Is he much better than Tobias? Youth is certainly on his side but he's another undersized guy who is an inconsistent long range shooter. I wouldn't be adverse to bringing him in but I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade at the 4 to be worth the assets it might cost.

Ivey is the big X Factor in all of this. The Pistons ceiling is highly dependent on Ivey continuing to grow into a legit #2 option which he isn't quite yet. If he develops into that with Cade going to grow his star status and Ausar/Holland on the wing and Stew's defense, this team has a very high ceiling. Duren I'm not sold on, even with his improvements last season he's still a below average defender and is a pure rim runner so he's limited offensively. His free throw shooting is a big plus for a center but I question his Basketball IQ and how much grow he has left in his game.

PJ is the sticky wicket. Is he a good enough stretch 4(he has a 7'3 wingspan which is the reason he gets as many blocks as he does)to push the team?

If I had to list player attributes, its offense/defense/teammates/passion. He may not check those boxes at the highest level, but they are all certainly checked.

I dont think I can say the same for Laurie Markkanen. Offense, hell yeah, but defense? I wanted Aldama, as his per36 was tantalizing, but still a mystery of sorts. You know exactly what your getting with PJ.

I also agree on Ivey. If his growth for the 30 games of last year are an indicator, WOW. Pistons are absolutely set in the starting backcourt.

We might also have to wait until the new guys are tradeable as well.(mid-december) Langdon might have someone already in mind, but can't do it yet.(salary ballast.)

[Rip32]

PJ is the absolute perfect fit for this team. Langdon has to make it happen. He fits perfectly into the TPE, and 1st round picks can be used.

Cade/LeVert
Ivey/Robinson
Ausar/Holland
PJ/Harris
Duren/Stewart

Dallas will bite if you start stacking 1st rounders. Don't have to send another player back either. This team is ready to compete for a title, right now.

GET IT DONE LANGDON.

That team is NOT a title contender, lets be real here.
Also, why is Dallas trading Washington? They're looking to compete this season.

So if I say they are im incorrect, and if you say they are not, "its being real".

I heard a lot of that before the Pistons added Rasheed, and a ton when they did add him. Hell, I got into it with Pat Caputo on the radio back in the day about this exact topic.

I firmly believe, that if the Pistons added PJ Washington, without having to give up Harris, they are instant title contenders. That is a rock solid team, headed by a top 10-15 MVP caliber level player.(votes count)

Even a modest jump by Ausar, and it becomes even more of a sure thing. Ivey continues his trajectory he started last season before dumbass takes him out, and hoo-boy are the Pistons a beast.

I believe the Pistons are extremely close to truly competing for a title, far closer then most realize.

Cade/LeVert
Ivey/Robinson
Ausar/Holland
PJ/Harris
Duren/Stewart

That is an insane mix of high end talent, athleticism, defensive prowess, passion, toughness, e.t.c.

If you want to argue that the team would still need more experience, I would agree to an extent. Most title teams need to go deeper, and deeper each year before they win. With that said, ill be damned if I agree that, that roster isn't deep, and talented. Now throw in the fact that the East is greatly weakened from last season, and I can absolutely see the Pistons playing in the finals next summer.

This is why I was advocating for Draymond Green! His addition would make the Pistons instant title contender and probably the favorites to win it all

[Kilo]

Draymond comes here and Holland II should meet him in the parking lot for his arrival presser and swing first vs waiting to get cheapshotted in practice.

Green isn't the right vet for this team.

[the_l_train]

Draymond crazy enough to work, but he's not coming here unless Steph retires or moves on. He gonna retire in GS unless they go to tank mode. He has mentioned us as a landing spot in a worst case scenario situation. He could teach Duren a lot.

I like that we were a chippy team last year, and Draymond a good guy to have on your side. Hoping we don't lose that identity.

[NYPiston]

I have to ask, and because the NBA cap rules are so damn complicated compared to every other sport. How are the Pistons relatively lacking cap space with one rookie max contract and one mid sized contract in Tobias while OKC can hand out max contracts like candy and fit all that in?

[Kilo]

Bird Rights.

[zeebneeb]

That team is NOT a title contender, lets be real here.
Also, why is Dallas trading Washington? They're looking to compete this season.

So if I say they are im incorrect, and if you say they are not, "its being real".

I heard a lot of that before the Pistons added Rasheed, and a ton when they did add him. Hell, I got into it with Pat Caputo on the radio back in the day about this exact topic.

I firmly believe, that if the Pistons added PJ Washington, without having to give up Harris, they are instant title contenders. That is a rock solid team, headed by a top 10-15 MVP caliber level player.(votes count)

Even a modest jump by Ausar, and it becomes even more of a sure thing. Ivey continues his trajectory he started last season before dumbass takes him out, and hoo-boy are the Pistons a beast.

I believe the Pistons are extremely close to truly competing for a title, far closer then most realize.

Cade/LeVert
Ivey/Robinson
Ausar/Holland
PJ/Harris
Duren/Stewart

That is an insane mix of high end talent, athleticism, defensive prowess, passion, toughness, e.t.c.

If you want to argue that the team would still need more experience, I would agree to an extent. Most title teams need to go deeper, and deeper each year before they win. With that said, ill be damned if I agree that, that roster isn't deep, and talented. Now throw in the fact that the East is greatly weakened from last season, and I can absolutely see the Pistons playing in the finals next summer.

This is why I was advocating for Draymond Green! His addition would make the Pistons instant title contender and probably the favorites to win it all

Draymond 3 years ago would have worked, but I am a strong proponent of no tiny PG's, or over the hill players.*

Green is past his prime at 35, soon to be 36.(mid-season)

*in starting roles. Support is fine.

[tmorgan]

I have to ask, and because the NBA cap rules are so damn complicated compared to every other sport. How are the Pistons relatively lacking cap space with one rookie max contract and one mid sized contract in Tobias while OKC can hand out max contracts like candy and fit all that in?

The extensions for Chet and JDub don’t take effect until after next season, and Shai’s monster 35% extension doesn’t start until the season after that.

So, next year is good for them, running it back with everything in place and no luxury tax. Two seasons from now, they may need to move on from a piece or two if they don’t want to pay the tax — Hartenstein in particular has been mentioned, which is why they drafted Sorber and hope to develop him. They don’t want to start the repeater cycle earlier than necessary, because…

Three seasons from now, after getting two more shots at titles, things get really tight. If JDub hits his escalator (Chet didn’t really get one), their young trio will be making 90% of the cap between them. That’s when the really hard decisions start to hit, because keeping them all means burning the bench or paying huge tax bills. Of course, that’s why Presti has a lot of non-elite picks stockpiled.

Nothing is guaranteed in this league, especially with a fragile key piece such as Holmgren, but the Thunder are in a strong position for a three-peat before the rules really hurt thrm.

[SuperBad]

We said the same thing about Boston. I think even the best let there guard down after winning the chip the first time, unless they’ve tasted the too close bitter already, so I’m willing to bet they don’t get it done next year.

[Pharaoh]

I have to ask, and because the NBA cap rules are so damn complicated compared to every other sport. How are the Pistons relatively lacking cap space with one rookie max contract and one mid sized contract in Tobias while OKC can hand out max contracts like candy and fit all that in?

The extensions for Chet and JDub don’t take effect until after next season, and Shai’s monster 35% extension doesn’t start until the season after that.

So, next year is good for them, running it back with everything in place and no luxury tax. Two seasons from now, they may need to move on from a piece or two if they don’t want to pay the tax — Hartenstein in particular has been mentioned, which is why they drafted Sorber and hope to develop him. They don’t want to start the repeater cycle earlier than necessary, because…

Three seasons from now, after getting two more shots at titles, things get really tight. If JDub hits his escalator (Chet didn’t really get one), their young trio will be making 90% of the cap between them. That’s when the really hard decisions start to hit, because keeping them all means burning the bench or paying huge tax bills. Of course, that’s why Presti has a lot of non-elite picks stockpiled.

Nothing is guaranteed in this league, especially with a fragile key piece such as Holmgren, but the Thunder are in a strong position for a three-peat before the rules really hurt thrm.

Fact that this CBA effectively penalises a team like the Thunder is a bad thing.

Smart FO, utilised trades and the Draft to build their team and at some point soon it's going to be incredibly expensive to retain their own guys and keep a quality team together.

How is that good for the league?

**** your parity - get a better FO!

It's not like they built their squad like the Wade, Bosh, LeBron Heat - OKC did it the right way and will be punished for it.

And that is absolute bull ****

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[Rip32]

I have to ask, and because the NBA cap rules are so damn complicated compared to every other sport. How are the Pistons relatively lacking cap space with one rookie max contract and one mid sized contract in Tobias while OKC can hand out max contracts like candy and fit all that in?

The extensions for Chet and JDub don’t take effect until after next season, and Shai’s monster 35% extension doesn’t start until the season after that.

So, next year is good for them, running it back with everything in place and no luxury tax. Two seasons from now, they may need to move on from a piece or two if they don’t want to pay the tax — Hartenstein in particular has been mentioned, which is why they drafted Sorber and hope to develop him. They don’t want to start the repeater cycle earlier than necessary, because…

Three seasons from now, after getting two more shots at titles, things get really tight. If JDub hits his escalator (Chet didn’t really get one), their young trio will be making 90% of the cap between them. That’s when the really hard decisions start to hit, because keeping them all means burning the bench or paying huge tax bills. Of course, that’s why Presti has a lot of non-elite picks stockpiled.

Nothing is guaranteed in this league, especially with a fragile key piece such as Holmgren, but the Thunder are in a strong position for a three-peat before the rules really hurt thrm.

Fact that this CBA effectively penalises a team like the Thunder is a bad thing.

Smart FO, utilised trades and the Draft to build their team and at some point soon it's going to be incredibly expensive to retain their own guys and keep a quality team together.

How is that good for the league?

**** your parity - get a better FO!

It's not like they built their squad like the Wade, Bosh, LeBron Heat - OKC did it the right way and will be punished for it.

And that is absolute bull ****

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

I agree! This is why the nba is a joke. There should be a way to pay the players you drafted and not be penalize toward the cap.

[DetroitSho]

I have to ask, and because the NBA cap rules are so damn complicated compared to every other sport. How are the Pistons relatively lacking cap space with one rookie max contract and one mid sized contract in Tobias while OKC can hand out max contracts like candy and fit all that in?

The extensions for Chet and JDub don’t take effect until after next season, and Shai’s monster 35% extension doesn’t start until the season after that.

So, next year is good for them, running it back with everything in place and no luxury tax. Two seasons from now, they may need to move on from a piece or two if they don’t want to pay the tax — Hartenstein in particular has been mentioned, which is why they drafted Sorber and hope to develop him. They don’t want to start the repeater cycle earlier than necessary, because…

Three seasons from now, after getting two more shots at titles, things get really tight. If JDub hits his escalator (Chet didn’t really get one), their young trio will be making 90% of the cap between them. That’s when the really hard decisions start to hit, because keeping them all means burning the bench or paying huge tax bills. Of course, that’s why Presti has a lot of non-elite picks stockpiled.

Nothing is guaranteed in this league, especially with a fragile key piece such as Holmgren, but the Thunder are in a strong position for a three-peat before the rules really hurt thrm.

Fact that this CBA effectively penalises a team like the Thunder is a bad thing.

Smart FO, utilised trades and the Draft to build their team and at some point soon it's going to be incredibly expensive to retain their own guys and keep a quality team together.

How is that good for the league?

**** your parity - get a better FO!

It's not like they built their squad like the Wade, Bosh, LeBron Heat - OKC did it the right way and will be punished for it.

And that is absolute bull ****

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Unless you absolutely didn't want the Pistons to add any players in free agency, not sure where the "wrong" way to build a team is adding free agents to your franchise player.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[Pharaoh]

The extensions for Chet and JDub don’t take effect until after next season, and Shai’s monster 35% extension doesn’t start until the season after that.

So, next year is good for them, running it back with everything in place and no luxury tax. Two seasons from now, they may need to move on from a piece or two if they don’t want to pay the tax — Hartenstein in particular has been mentioned, which is why they drafted Sorber and hope to develop him. They don’t want to start the repeater cycle earlier than necessary, because…

Three seasons from now, after getting two more shots at titles, things get really tight. If JDub hits his escalator (Chet didn’t really get one), their young trio will be making 90% of the cap between them. That’s when the really hard decisions start to hit, because keeping them all means burning the bench or paying huge tax bills. Of course, that’s why Presti has a lot of non-elite picks stockpiled.

Nothing is guaranteed in this league, especially with a fragile key piece such as Holmgren, but the Thunder are in a strong position for a three-peat before the rules really hurt thrm.

Fact that this CBA effectively penalises a team like the Thunder is a bad thing.

Smart FO, utilised trades and the Draft to build their team and at some point soon it's going to be incredibly expensive to retain their own guys and keep a quality team together.

How is that good for the league?

**** your parity - get a better FO!

It's not like they built their squad like the Wade, Bosh, LeBron Heat - OKC did it the right way and will be punished for it.

And that is absolute bull ****

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Unless you absolutely didn't want the Pistons to add any players in free agency, not sure where the "wrong" way to build a team is adding free agents to your franchise player.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Did I say adding players in free agency is the "wrong" way to build a team?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[BadMofoPimp]

I think Ron Holland will be the backup PF this season. Tobias is also 6'8" so I don't see size being a difference.

[DetroitSho]

Fact that this CBA effectively penalises a team like the Thunder is a bad thing.

Smart FO, utilised trades and the Draft to build their team and at some point soon it's going to be incredibly expensive to retain their own guys and keep a quality team together.

How is that good for the league?

**** your parity - get a better FO!

It's not like they built their squad like the Wade, Bosh, LeBron Heat - OKC did it the right way and will be punished for it.

And that is absolute bull ****

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Unless you absolutely didn't want the Pistons to add any players in free agency, not sure where the "wrong" way to build a team is adding free agents to your franchise player.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Did I say adding players in free agency is the "wrong" way to build a team?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Well.........yeah. I mean, why else make the contrast between OKC and Miami and characterize OKC as the right way? That, by default, makes building around your franchise player through free agency as the wrong way, no?

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[Snakebites]

We cannot build like OKC. It's simply not an option.

The way their rebuild started was simply fundamentally different.