Another bad one. Simons/Kuzma/Utah

[djFan71]

Looking at the numbers more, I like including Niang. That would get us ~$1M below the 1st apron even. Not required, but nice benefit. Plus you're within striking distance of ducking the tax at the deadline.

Yeah, including Niang is like an extra second or two of back to Boston imo. He’s not terrible, but the money is huge..

And if the team decides to trade Hauser to get under the tax, no one would blame them..

I'll see if including Niang wins me more any support on the BOS board, lol. It's been a few days since I dropped the K word there.

[djFan71]

Would Lakers take Kuz back for Vincent and Vandy?

[Mavrelous]

Would Lakers take Kuz back for Vincent and Vandy?

They would IMO, other teams in the deal should demand more.

[Daddy 801]

Jazz would want Kuzma. You can play him 2,000 minutes and lose 3 - 5 more games

The Bucks are stealing value from the Jazz. Nobody is taking on Kyle Kumza contract without significant assets attached to him and a heavily protected 1st round pick from the Celtics isn't going to cut it.

We don’t want any older players taking minutes away from young players, even if they help us lose.

Easy pass unless significant assets are coming attached to him.

[enzino]

We probably played with this one already? Feel like Milwaukee owes a second or two, but they don’t have one. Not worth a distant swap imo.

Boston: Simons, Niang (separate trade) 2026 first lottery protected (3x)
Boston: fake 2nds and Tyler Smith (separate trade)

Boston ties up a first but gets under the tax.

Utah: fake 2nds (or real ones if you think?)
Utah: Kuzma and Boston’s 2026 first

Utah bets on Jaylen/White making the playoffs and conveying a pick in the teens, but will see the first in 2027 either way.

Milwaukee: Kuzma, Tyler Smith
Milwaukee: Simons and Niang (room MLE separate trade)

Milwaukee gets a better guard and another expiring. They should be able to create real cap space next summer to go after Bridges or Reaves, but get to see if Simons can actually work as a lead guard playing off Giannis..

Niang can be shopped for a different piece if you want to try and continue improving the team. Still can shop swaps or the 2031 first..

it makes a lot of sense

[djFan71]

Bucks do jayjaysee's 2nd round pick scrounging above with WAS. Lakers add Knecht.

MIL: Simons and Niang for Kuz, 2nds
BOS: Vanderbilt, SloMo for Simons, Niang
LAL: Kuz, 2nd for Vanderbilt, Vincent and Knecht
UTA: Vincent, Knecht, 2nd for SloMo

MIL gets scoring and another solid rotation guy for a guy they don't want

BOS saves $15M and gets two usable frontcourt additions. Both tradeable salary next summer as well. SloMo non-guaranteed, so perfect ballast if they need him, or let him walk if they don't.

LAL gets Kuz and a 2nd, save $4.6M this year, get off Vanderbilt's future $.

UTA: Gets Knecht & a 2nd for taking on $2M more in salary (beyond Knecht) this year.

[Daddy 801]

I will admit my viewing of him is limited. But from what I have seen I’m not really interested in Knecht. From watching him I think his numbers are over inflated from playing with Bron and Luka.

[hugepatsfan]

I don’t understand why BOS dumping one year of Simons costs a first in the teens but MIL shedding a year of Kuzma costs nothing?

BOS is $20M into the tax. If they shed Simons for $27M there’s no need for them to dump Niang. It’s been said in the thread that MIl taking him on is like sending Boston seconds… not at all. An already below the tax Celtics team wouldn’t attribute value to dumping the only NBA caliber 4 on their roster just to go further under.

The concept here makes sense. MIL could use Simons over Kuzma and nice to shed a contract year. Boston could use a tax reset year. Utah should want assets for salary. The problem is none of the deals posted here ever have MIL paying their fair share. It ends up Boston paying all or too much of the cost for Kuzma to Utah. If MIL isn’t going to contribute anything or enough, then BOS and Utah can cut them out.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t understand why BOS dumping one year of Simons costs a first in the teens but MIL shedding a year of Kuzma costs nothing?

BOS is $20M into the tax. If they shed Simons for $27M there’s no need for them to dump Niang. It’s been said in the thread that MIl taking him on is like sending Boston seconds… not at all. An already below the tax Celtics team wouldn’t attribute value to dumping the only NBA caliber 4 on their roster just to go further under.

The concept here makes sense. MIL could use Simons over Kuzma and nice to shed a contract year. Boston could use a tax reset year. Utah should want assets for salary. The problem is none of the deals posted here ever have MIL paying their fair share. It ends up Boston paying all or too much of the cost for Kuzma to Utah. If MIL isn’t going to contribute anything or enough, then BOS and Utah can cut them out.

Utah and Boston can’t just cut Milwaukee out since Utah doesn’t have a Simons sized TPE..

Milwaukee in OP is taking on an extra 12~ mil to save 20 mil next season. And getting the better fitting piece..

Boston is saving 35 mil.

I think everyone in this thread has said Mil owes something, including the OP... The 2026 swap is the easiest way to add “a few seconds”, which is all I think it really calls for.

But dumping Niang, would let Boston replace his 8 mil with offering someone the full MLE under the tax. Or trade for someone making 15~ million. Whichever way Boston wanted to go. It saves Boston from paying the second(s) when it’s time to do that.

[hugepatsfan]

I don’t understand why BOS dumping one year of Simons costs a first in the teens but MIL shedding a year of Kuzma costs nothing?

BOS is $20M into the tax. If they shed Simons for $27M there’s no need for them to dump Niang. It’s been said in the thread that MIl taking him on is like sending Boston seconds… not at all. An already below the tax Celtics team wouldn’t attribute value to dumping the only NBA caliber 4 on their roster just to go further under.

The concept here makes sense. MIL could use Simons over Kuzma and nice to shed a contract year. Boston could use a tax reset year. Utah should want assets for salary. The problem is none of the deals posted here ever have MIL paying their fair share. It ends up Boston paying all or too much of the cost for Kuzma to Utah. If MIL isn’t going to contribute anything or enough, then BOS and Utah can cut them out.

Utah and Boston can’t just cut Milwaukee out since Utah doesn’t have a Simons sized TPE..

Milwaukee in OP is taking on an extra 12~ mil to save 20 mil next season. And getting the better fitting piece..

Boston is saving 35 mil.

I think everyone in this thread has said Mil owes something, including the OP... The 2026 swap is the easiest way to add “a few seconds”, which is all I think it really calls for.

But dumping Niang, would let Boston replace his 8 mil with offering someone the full MLE under the tax. Or trade for someone making 15~ million. Whichever way Boston wanted to go. It saves Boston from paying the second(s) when it’s time to do that.

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

[djFan71]

I don’t understand why BOS dumping one year of Simons costs a first in the teens but MIL shedding a year of Kuzma costs nothing?

BOS is $20M into the tax. If they shed Simons for $27M there’s no need for them to dump Niang. It’s been said in the thread that MIl taking him on is like sending Boston seconds… not at all. An already below the tax Celtics team wouldn’t attribute value to dumping the only NBA caliber 4 on their roster just to go further under.

The concept here makes sense. MIL could use Simons over Kuzma and nice to shed a contract year. Boston could use a tax reset year. Utah should want assets for salary. The problem is none of the deals posted here ever have MIL paying their fair share. It ends up Boston paying all or too much of the cost for Kuzma to Utah. If MIL isn’t going to contribute anything or enough, then BOS and Utah can cut them out.

Utah and Boston can’t just cut Milwaukee out since Utah doesn’t have a Simons sized TPE..

Milwaukee in OP is taking on an extra 12~ mil to save 20 mil next season. And getting the better fitting piece..

Boston is saving 35 mil.

I think everyone in this thread has said Mil owes something, including the OP... The 2026 swap is the easiest way to add “a few seconds”, which is all I think it really calls for.

But dumping Niang, would let Boston replace his 8 mil with offering someone the full MLE under the tax. Or trade for someone making 15~ million. Whichever way Boston wanted to go. It saves Boston from paying the second(s) when it’s time to do that.

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

I think any version with BOS sending a pick to pure dump is just DOA.

I like the other versions where we take Kuz back, or LAL/UTA guys (my pref) instead, don't send any picks, and get to shed some of Simons salary. Maybe even get a 2nd. That's when sending out Niang to save more $ makes sense. In those scenarios you have Kuz or Vandy and SloMo coming back to BOS.

[SkyHook]

Spoiler:

Utah and Boston can’t just cut Milwaukee out since Utah doesn’t have a Simons sized TPE..

Milwaukee in OP is taking on an extra 12~ mil to save 20 mil next season. And getting the better fitting piece..

Boston is saving 35 mil.

I think everyone in this thread has said Mil owes something, including the OP... The 2026 swap is the easiest way to add “a few seconds”, which is all I think it really calls for.

But dumping Niang, would let Boston replace his 8 mil with offering someone the full MLE under the tax. Or trade for someone making 15~ million. Whichever way Boston wanted to go. It saves Boston from paying the second(s) when it’s time to do that.

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

I think any version with BOS sending a pick to pure dump is just DOA.

I like the other versions where we take Kuz back, or LAL/UTA guys (my pref) instead, don't send any picks, and get to shed some of Simons salary. Maybe even get a 2nd. That's when sending out Niang to save more $ makes sense. In those scenarios you have Kuz or Vandy and SloMo coming back to BOS.

Again, I think think that's a fine stance to take, but would it really shock you if they did just that?

I still think that their wisest move in this lost year is to get completely out of the tax to reset the repeater penalty so that they're unencumbered by that when Tatum returns. If that costs a pick, so be it.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t understand why BOS dumping one year of Simons costs a first in the teens but MIL shedding a year of Kuzma costs nothing?

BOS is $20M into the tax. If they shed Simons for $27M there’s no need for them to dump Niang. It’s been said in the thread that MIl taking him on is like sending Boston seconds… not at all. An already below the tax Celtics team wouldn’t attribute value to dumping the only NBA caliber 4 on their roster just to go further under.

The concept here makes sense. MIL could use Simons over Kuzma and nice to shed a contract year. Boston could use a tax reset year. Utah should want assets for salary. The problem is none of the deals posted here ever have MIL paying their fair share. It ends up Boston paying all or too much of the cost for Kuzma to Utah. If MIL isn’t going to contribute anything or enough, then BOS and Utah can cut them out.

Utah and Boston can’t just cut Milwaukee out since Utah doesn’t have a Simons sized TPE..

Milwaukee in OP is taking on an extra 12~ mil to save 20 mil next season. And getting the better fitting piece..

Boston is saving 35 mil.

I think everyone in this thread has said Mil owes something, including the OP... The 2026 swap is the easiest way to add “a few seconds”, which is all I think it really calls for.

But dumping Niang, would let Boston replace his 8 mil with offering someone the full MLE under the tax. Or trade for someone making 15~ million. Whichever way Boston wanted to go. It saves Boston from paying the second(s) when it’s time to do that.

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

Don’t really want to defend the base idea, because I agree it was a miss... And other Boston fans have brought up decent reasons and made fine counters..

I just don’t like ignoring things like saying Niang is the best thing Boston can do with 15 million in tax space… I have a lot more faith in Stevens than you do I guess?

But if Niang is your starting PF, you don’t have a starting PF.. look at what happened to the Hawks at the end of last season / play-in.

[hugepatsfan]

Spoiler:

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

I think any version with BOS sending a pick to pure dump is just DOA.

I like the other versions where we take Kuz back, or LAL/UTA guys (my pref) instead, don't send any picks, and get to shed some of Simons salary. Maybe even get a 2nd. That's when sending out Niang to save more $ makes sense. In those scenarios you have Kuz or Vandy and SloMo coming back to BOS.

Again, I think think that's a fine stance to take, but would it really shock you if they did just that?

I still think that their wisest move in this lost year is to get completely out of the tax to reset the repeater penalty so that they're unencumbered by that when Tatum returns. If that costs a pick, so be it.

Worth talking about their full repeater tax situation...

If they duck under this year, then they can go back over the tax next year and not pay repeater rates. But going back over next year means that repeater penalties will be back on in 27-28 and beyond. So the "unencumbered by repeater tax" when Tatum returns would only apply to one year. For it to really apply long-term, they need to duck under it this year AND stay under it next year when Tatum comes back.

If ducking under this year was going to reset completely repeater penalties then I think it'd be the move for them. But since it only buys them one year, my guess is they pass. Stevens kind of alluded to that saying there's value in resetting the repeater rates but right now his and ownership's view is that it doesn't warrant giving up their assets that they need to improve.

I think they'll try to shed as much money as they can off Simons deal and possibly Niang/Hauser, but I don't think they'll go to the extreme of attaching a 1st to do it because in the grand scheme of things they're going to spend the duration of Tatum's prime in repeater taxes either way. If they really want to reset repeater rates they have to stay under both years and back to back years of cost cutting sets them up for a pretty quickly declining roster and that's set up to where they should be worried about Tatum requesting a trade 2 summers from now.

[hugepatsfan]

Utah and Boston can’t just cut Milwaukee out since Utah doesn’t have a Simons sized TPE..

Milwaukee in OP is taking on an extra 12~ mil to save 20 mil next season. And getting the better fitting piece..

Boston is saving 35 mil.

I think everyone in this thread has said Mil owes something, including the OP... The 2026 swap is the easiest way to add “a few seconds”, which is all I think it really calls for.

But dumping Niang, would let Boston replace his 8 mil with offering someone the full MLE under the tax. Or trade for someone making 15~ million. Whichever way Boston wanted to go. It saves Boston from paying the second(s) when it’s time to do that.

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

Don’t really want to defend the base idea, because I agree it was a miss... And other Boston fans have brought up decent reasons and made fine counters..

I just don’t like ignoring things like saying Niang is the best thing Boston can do with 15 million in tax space… I have a lot more faith in Stevens than you do I guess?

But if Niang is your starting PF, you don’t have a starting PF.. look at what happened to the Hawks at the end of last season / play-in.

I don't think there's any $15M free agent left.

I'm sure that he could do better in a trade with $15M. I'm sure some player for $15M will be moved and if BOS had a TPE that would help. But Niang on an $8.2M deal is also enough to acquire that $15M player as well via normal salary matching while still offering a good deal of salary relief. Obviously you offer more value to the other team not making them take back Niang, but there's also probably a lot of deals where it's totally fine with the other team to "only" save half of that $15M player. Or if it's not, you can pay the 2nds to dump Niang then. There's just no need to lock yourself into paying that upfront without any real need to. If that $15M player doesn't come available you just pissed away 2nds for essentially nothing. (Other than yes, $8.2M of actual real world savings, but if BOS is already below the tax I don't think they'd be in position where they value that over the 2nds.)

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

Who is still available worth the full MLE. If they make this trade they don't have any PFs on the roster. Niang would be the best free agent PF in free agency. Don't see BOS assigning any value to dumping him if they're under the tax anyway.

So then t's MIL taking on an extra $4M to save $20M next year and get the better fitting piece at no cost since there's no value in "saving BOS the few 2nds". So it comes back to BOS paying a pick in the teens to dump $27M and MIL paying nothing to dump $16M and tie up future years money.

I think any version with BOS sending a pick to pure dump is just DOA.

I like the other versions where we take Kuz back, or LAL/UTA guys (my pref) instead, don't send any picks, and get to shed some of Simons salary. Maybe even get a 2nd. That's when sending out Niang to save more $ makes sense. In those scenarios you have Kuz or Vandy and SloMo coming back to BOS.

Again, I think think that's a fine stance to take, but would it really shock you if they did just that?

I still think that their wisest move in this lost year is to get completely out of the tax to reset the repeater penalty so that they're unencumbered by that when Tatum returns. If that costs a pick, so be it.

It's the stance Brad Stevens (publicly) and the new owners took, too. That's the main thing.

The Celtics, currently about $320,000 above the second apron, still need to do some minor roster maneuvering to push themselves under that threshold. While they have also considered more aggressive cost-cutting moves, which would position them to avoid the luxury tax next season, according to league sources, Stevens suggested he will only opt for such a strategy if he can do so without trading away significant draft capital. He said incoming owner Bill Chisholm “has been pretty clear from the get-go that he wants to make sure that we’re prioritizing basketball assets and the ability to retool this thing at the highest level that we can.”

"Everything else we wanna — we have most of our first-round picks still other than the 2029 one. We have a lot of seconds now, so we have some flexibility there — we don’t want to take away our chance to use those to become the best that we can be over the next few years, just to make a move to help save money. That’s been very clearly stated to me. We’ll continue to look at how we can make things a little bit better or tweak things around the edges and maybe something comes up in the next couple weeks, but that’s been our mindset.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6481094/2025/07/08/celtics-al-horford-brad-stevens-nba-free-agency/

So, a 2nd might be on the table to grease the final few $ in the right scenario, sure. But, not paying a first to just dump Simons.

[jayjaysee]

Edit..

Derailing my own thread? But I didn’t like that idea since LAL likely wants to keep expirings despite having an MVP level player..and a top 2 player ever in maybe his last season..