2025 Offseason Thread Vol.5

[twix2500]

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[greg4012]

Or if they were still as good as some of you think they’d be able to pinpoint the right players to put them over the top and fit well as opposed to letting someone with no experience empty his pockets to add 3 players in KD Beal and Booker who all want to do the exact same thing. I would’ve gladly given Herro for Kyrie for example and I definitely wouldn’t have made Lowry unavailable for Kyrie as he would’ve been exactly what Bam/Jimmy needed next to them and the going price was low (just not as low as we offered).

There is not a perfect, error free front office, and as good as they are, they all will make mistakes. You constantly confuse and assume we all argue in extremes like you. Yes, they could have made moves like Kyrie to make use better, but they did not. We all can speculate why he ended up on the Mavs instead of the Heat, but at the end of the day, we really do not know if it was poor decision making on our end, or the other team just really wanting another package. At the end of the day, I have enjoyed being a Heat fan for the last 5, 10, 15, and 30 years and we have had a pretty good and competitive product for the majority of that time. Slow and steady is also a good strategy. There is humanity of those in charge… are we really going to sit here and complain as if we have been the Magic of the last decade?

So we agree they didn’t do everything they could to win during the Jimmy era and it’s valid criticism to say so and that in the past, they likely would have. Hence some of the “Riley is washed” commentary you’ll see on here and other places saying the front office isn’t what they used to be. Fair enough.

We can agree that they didn't exhaust every single asset to solely serve 2024-2025 at the expense of having means to build a roster beyond Jimmy's age 35 season. I never wanted them to go ALL-IN to that extent bc it can get reckless quick and I have enough belief in Bam + Spo and others (and enough concern with a player like Jimmy remaining viable beyond age 35) to want to have team building options moving forward.

Miami wasn't competing with PHX's offer for KD (when he was leaving BKN). Miami wasn't getting over the whole NBA conspiring against Dame trying to force his way to Miami. Yes, other moves were possible and Miami didn't make them. I was intrigued by Kyrie at the time, but he was also a lot more volatile and toxic in BKN than he proved to be in Dallas. Tough.

We can get lost in the weeds along the way. Just remember that, in doing so, we're lost in the weeds and not commenting accurately on the entire forest.

The narrative gets really dumb really quickly when taken to extremes that are detached from reality.

You say we can agree. But, I never see you actually recognizing these dynamics or contextualizing with them.

[greg4012]

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Chet, IMO, is a potential ticking time bomb with his frame and injury track record.

Jalen Williams is an ascendant star tho.

Both warrant their contracts, but Jalen is much easier to swallow if I was a OKC fan.

Margin for error gets a lot smaller with the books getting bloated. Fortunately for OKC, a treasure trove of draft capital helps mitigate error.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

There is not a perfect, error free front office, and as good as they are, they all will make mistakes. You constantly confuse and assume we all argue in extremes like you. Yes, they could have made moves like Kyrie to make use better, but they did not. We all can speculate why he ended up on the Mavs instead of the Heat, but at the end of the day, we really do not know if it was poor decision making on our end, or the other team just really wanting another package. At the end of the day, I have enjoyed being a Heat fan for the last 5, 10, 15, and 30 years and we have had a pretty good and competitive product for the majority of that time. Slow and steady is also a good strategy. There is humanity of those in charge… are we really going to sit here and complain as if we have been the Magic of the last decade?

So we agree they didn’t do everything they could to win during the Jimmy era and it’s valid criticism to say so and that in the past, they likely would have. Hence some of the “Riley is washed” commentary you’ll see on here and other places saying the front office isn’t what they used to be. Fair enough.

We can agree that they didn't exhaust every single asset to solely serve 2024-2025 at the expense of having means to build a roster beyond Jimmy's age 35 season. I never wanted them to go ALL-IN to that extent bc it can get reckless quick and I have enough belief in Bam + Spo and others (and enough concern with a player like Jimmy remaining viable beyond age 35) to want to have team building options moving forward.

Miami wasn't competing with PHX's offer for KD (when he was leaving BKN). Miami wasn't getting over the whole NBA conspiring against Dame trying to force his way to Miami. Yes, other moves were possible and Miami didn't make them. I was intrigued by Kyrie at the time, but he was also a lot more volatile and toxic in BKN than he proved to be in Dallas. Tough.

We can get lost in the weeds along the way. Just remember that, in doing so, we're lost in the weeds and not commenting accurately on the entire forest.

The narrative gets really dumb really quickly when taken to extremes that are detached from reality.

You say we can agree. But, I never see you actually recognizing these dynamics or contextualizing with them.

I agree throwing everything at a 1 year window (2024-25 in your example) is probably not the best decision. It’s the getting close to winning it all 3 different times and fielding a worse roster the following season every time and showing no sense of urgency to get over the top that does it for me.

[batterybro42]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-playoff-wins-in-last-5-years

Yep. It is funny seeing how fans will downplay this, I think a lot of it stems from fans that came over during the big 3 years and see it as a birthright to win it every season. Its unfortunate we came up short the last two finals trips, but one thing for certain is if you look at the track record HEAT as an organization has consistently been pretty damn good and its a credit to the ecosystem they’ve built.

It's wild how rare it is in Miami Heat dialogue to see recognition of the reality that Miami has been in a pseudo sustainable all-in posture since the Big 3 era. The sign-and-trades for LeBron and Bosh and ancillary moves during the Big 3 era required sending away future draft assets and youth. The post-LeBron attempts to keep contending saw continued efforts to send away future draft capital (Dragic), but were derailed by the sort of unmanageable "act-of-God" that should typically be grounds for nullifying a contract (or at least not having it count on the books). Miami lost Bosh right when they were pivoting to a build around Bosh and Wade and Dragic, and were still on the hook for his max contract for multiple seasons without any on-court impact to show for it. I assume Miami couldn't really go full tank mode bc Miami had just traded 2 future FRPs for Dragic, so they were stuck in a recovery loop. Then Miami got Jimmy and it was back to NOW mode, still with very limited future draft capital.

Miami's orientation post-Jimmy towards cleaning the books for a new-ish slate/build right around 2026 offseason is the reset back to neutral+ that Miami has avoided for a long time. But, it wasn't something that Miami was in a rush to do while still having Jimmy in the fold. There are plenty of criticisms to make regarding moves along the way. And it's obviously a lot less gratifying to always operate with the perspective of what it cost to achieve success and contention when the only thing that matters for fans is the present and what's next.

But, I definitely value keeping perspective of the greater context in all of this.

100% you got a lot of fans who have not really followed the team like that for a long time, that do not understand the year to year process and how big the Big 3/Survival after took out of the asset pool for this franchise. This FO has been operating with a hand tied behind their back for 15 years now. They are just now about to reset to normal. This is the strongest position this FO has been in since 2009

[lastb1ckman]

So yeah, with the money flying out to guys in OKC and Booker after the season he had......Tyler is probably getting that money.

[Hallstar]

So yeah, with the money flying out to guys in OKC and Booker after the season he had......Tyler is probably getting that money.

lol, there's a hot take that's gonna start after trade deadline if this team gels that's gonna have the board upside down

[lastb1ckman]

So yeah, with the money flying out to guys in OKC and Booker after the season he had......Tyler is probably getting that money.

lol, there's a hot take that's gonna start after trade deadline if this team gels that's gonna have the board upside down

I mean, Booker just had a Tyler Herro level season at 28 and they extended him at 70+ a year lmao. And the Suns don't have nearly the assets or team the Heat have even after all the **** we gave them. Plus they're considering waiving Beals nonsense contract.

One of these days these salaries are gonna crash a bit, but currently Herro at 26 getting 50 million doesnt seem that crazy now

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Our worst nightmare

[MiamiLoyal926]

Or if they were still as good as some of you think they’d be able to pinpoint the right players to put them over the top and fit well as opposed to letting someone with no experience empty his pockets to add 3 players in KD Beal and Booker who all want to do the exact same thing. I would’ve gladly given Herro for Kyrie for example and I definitely wouldn’t have made Lowry unavailable for Kyrie as he would’ve been exactly what Bam/Jimmy needed next to them and the going price was low (just not as low as we offered).

There is not a perfect, error free front office, and as good as they are, they all will make mistakes. You constantly confuse and assume we all argue in extremes like you. Yes, they could have made moves like Kyrie to make use better, but they did not. We all can speculate why he ended up on the Mavs instead of the Heat, but at the end of the day, we really do not know if it was poor decision making on our end, or the other team just really wanting another package. At the end of the day, I have enjoyed being a Heat fan for the last 5, 10, 15, and 30 years and we have had a pretty good and competitive product for the majority of that time. Slow and steady is also a good strategy. There is humanity of those in charge… are we really going to sit here and complain as if we have been the Magic of the last decade?

So we agree they didn’t do everything they could to win during the Jimmy era and it’s valid criticism to say so and that in the past, they likely would have. Hence some of the “Riley is washed” commentary you’ll see on here and other places saying the front office isn’t what they used to be. Fair enough.

See how you only accept and/or see things in extremes. They could have done more, sure, but that does not mean they should have done so, especially at the expense of long term team building. The moves available were either out of reach for us, or priced in a way that did not make sense for us to pursue beyond our fair price evaluation.

You like to operate in the realm of and advocate for throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it… the “all in” /“empty the cupboard” mode of operation. That is an extreme that we have applied when the deals made sense… but the ones we “missed” on were either above our affordability given past “all-in” moves that had us with reduced assets, or were too rich in asking price given the limited opportunity to get a healthy ROI from said move. Just cause we could have thrown more assets at those, does not mean we should have. Does that mean we sometimes miss out, sure, and some of those deals panned out to be plenty of ROI for other teams, even we have gotten some of those good ROIs fall our way, but we have also swung at some and the ROI was bad (Lowry and Rozier).

Given all that, we are still a top 4 performing organization who plays it smart more often than not… I accept that and appreciate that it sometimes means we play it too safe, but other times it yields a great outcome and very successful product. That product has been one of the best in the NBA for the last quarter of a century and even in the last 5 years.

I agree with their moves, and lack of moves. I can agree with them but still wish for more, but ultimately Butler turned out to be a player not worth building around and I am glad they did not invest more into that build than what they already sacrificed when making moves like Lowry and Rozier. I actually like the direction we are trending towards… and that is only possible due to the restraint they have shown these last few years.

[Shewasfly]

How do players keep getting older every time we talk about them. KD was 40 by the time he was traded. Tyler is about to be 30 by the time any type of negotiations start

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I mean Bookers career averages are the equivalent Tyler’s absolute peak season we’ve seen thus far and he’s a much more accomplished player/franchise great. We still need to see if Tyler can sustain it and if he can stay healthy, those are serious concerns so we’ll see how he holds up

[MiamiLoyal926]

There is not a perfect, error free front office, and as good as they are, they all will make mistakes. You constantly confuse and assume we all argue in extremes like you. Yes, they could have made moves like Kyrie to make use better, but they did not. We all can speculate why he ended up on the Mavs instead of the Heat, but at the end of the day, we really do not know if it was poor decision making on our end, or the other team just really wanting another package. At the end of the day, I have enjoyed being a Heat fan for the last 5, 10, 15, and 30 years and we have had a pretty good and competitive product for the majority of that time. Slow and steady is also a good strategy. There is humanity of those in charge… are we really going to sit here and complain as if we have been the Magic of the last decade?

So we agree they didn’t do everything they could to win during the Jimmy era and it’s valid criticism to say so and that in the past, they likely would have. Hence some of the “Riley is washed” commentary you’ll see on here and other places saying the front office isn’t what they used to be. Fair enough.

We can agree that they didn't exhaust every single asset to solely serve 2024-2025 at the expense of having means to build a roster beyond Jimmy's age 35 season. I never wanted them to go ALL-IN to that extent bc it can get reckless quick and I have enough belief in Bam + Spo and others (and enough concern with a player like Jimmy remaining viable beyond age 35) to want to have team building options moving forward.

Miami wasn't competing with PHX's offer for KD (when he was leaving BKN). Miami wasn't getting over the whole NBA conspiring against Dame trying to force his way to Miami. Yes, other moves were possible and Miami didn't make them. I was intrigued by Kyrie at the time, but he was also a lot more volatile and toxic in BKN than he proved to be in Dallas. Tough.

We can get lost in the weeds along the way. Just remember that, in doing so, we're lost in the weeds and not commenting accurately on the entire forest.

The narrative gets really dumb really quickly when taken to extremes that are detached from reality.

You say we can agree. But, I never see you actually recognizing these dynamics or contextualizing with them.

Another 100% post!! You keep nailing my thoughts so accurately and eloquently.

[Shewasfly]

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Our worst nightmare

Either he or Wiggins have to be gone by the time the season starts. We can't go into the season with both.

[lastb1ckman]

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Our worst nightmare

Either he or Wiggins have to be gone by the time the season starts. We can't go into the season with both.

If the only option is to attach a pick, keep em. No more of that ****. Especially with Wiggins, he is actually useful.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

There is not a perfect, error free front office, and as good as they are, they all will make mistakes. You constantly confuse and assume we all argue in extremes like you. Yes, they could have made moves like Kyrie to make use better, but they did not. We all can speculate why he ended up on the Mavs instead of the Heat, but at the end of the day, we really do not know if it was poor decision making on our end, or the other team just really wanting another package. At the end of the day, I have enjoyed being a Heat fan for the last 5, 10, 15, and 30 years and we have had a pretty good and competitive product for the majority of that time. Slow and steady is also a good strategy. There is humanity of those in charge… are we really going to sit here and complain as if we have been the Magic of the last decade?

So we agree they didn’t do everything they could to win during the Jimmy era and it’s valid criticism to say so and that in the past, they likely would have. Hence some of the “Riley is washed” commentary you’ll see on here and other places saying the front office isn’t what they used to be. Fair enough.

See how you only accept and/or see things in extremes. They could have done more, sure, but that does not mean they should have done so, especially at the expense of long term team building. The moves available were either out of reach for us, or priced in a way that did not make sense for us to pursue beyond our fair price evaluation.

You like to operate in the realm of and advocate for throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it… the “all in” /“empty the cupboard” mode of operation. That is an extreme that we have applied when the deals made sense… but the ones we “missed” on were either above our affordability given past “all-in” moves that had us with reduced assets, or were too rich in asking price given the limited opportunity to get a healthy ROI from said move. Just cause we could have thrown more assets at those, does not mean we should have. Does that mean we sometimes miss out, sure, and some of those deals panned out to be plenty of ROI for other teams, even we have gotten some of those good ROIs fall our way, but we have also swung at some and the ROI was bad (Lowry and Rozier).

Given all that, we are still a top 4 performing organization who plays it smart more often than not… I accept that and appreciate that it sometimes means we play it too safe, but other times it yields a great outcome and very successful product. That product has been one of the best in the NBA for the last quarter of a century and even in the last 5 years.

I agree with their moves, and lack of moves. I can agree with them but still wish for more, but ultimately Butler turned out to be a player not worth building around and I am glad they did not invest more into that build than what they already sacrificed when making moves like Lowry and Rozier. I actually like the direction we are trending towards… and that is only possible due to the restraint they have shown these last few years.

I am reforming myself as a FO and Herro stan going forward, this is the last time we will discuss the FO in a negative light!

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Our worst nightmare

Terry and a 1st or KJ for Giddey, Bulls don’t commit long term money to a player like they want and the get an asset in the process

[Tim_Hardawayy]

We can agree that they didn't exhaust every single asset to solely serve 2024-2025 at the expense of having means to build a roster beyond Jimmy's age 35 season. I never wanted them to go ALL-IN to that extent bc it can get reckless quick and I have enough belief in Bam + Spo and others (and enough concern with a player like Jimmy remaining viable beyond age 35) to want to have team building options moving forward.

Miami wasn't competing with PHX's offer for KD (when he was leaving BKN). Miami wasn't getting over the whole NBA conspiring against Dame trying to force his way to Miami. Yes, other moves were possible and Miami didn't make them. I was intrigued by Kyrie at the time, but he was also a lot more volatile and toxic in BKN than he proved to be in Dallas. Tough.

We can get lost in the weeds along the way. Just remember that, in doing so, we're lost in the weeds and not commenting accurately on the entire forest.

The narrative gets really dumb really quickly when taken to extremes that are detached from reality.

You say we can agree. But, I never see you actually recognizing these dynamics or contextualizing with them.

To be perfectly honest, I think there was enough evidence between Jimmy's injury the year before last and his mediocre showing in the playoffs with GSW to suggest even if we went all in, he wasn't going to have enough in the tank to push us over the hump the last two years. And that's assuming we get someone like Lillard and he doesn't still have his own injury problems.

I'm also not on board with the assumptions we had a Donovan Mitchell or Kyrie in the bag, and only didn't get them because of refusal to give up assets. Or if we did, that it was a slam dunk championship squad (to be honest every year we made it was a struggle and underdog effort, even the year we were a #1 seed we weren't preseason favorites or anything).

I also don't get the constant 180's with Herro. Its always "why didn't we give him up to get the star we need", but then in the next sentence calling him trash. So which is it? If other teams view him the way you do (not you but you know who I'm talking about), then maybe he never had that value in the first place and wasn't going to get us the stars we wanted? Maybe we never really had the pieces needed to get those deals done?

Meanwhile, the win now moves we did make where we traded youth or draft picks or signed a guy tended to blow up in our face (Lowry, Rozier). So maybe sometimes just making any move just for the sake of making it, isn't the play?

(obviously most of this post is in reference to the other poster, I'm basically agreeing with your take)

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I am reforming myself as a FO and Herro stan going forward, this is the last time we will discuss the FO in a negative light!

lol why can't you just be chill and reasonable, its way less stressful