2025 Offseason Thread Vol.5

[EMC5466]

Wiggins looked like he was in a coma with us last season. He also flat out sucked.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

I think you underestimate how much of Bam's inability to do those things falls on him and not how the team uses him. And I think most in here would agree with me, and this is a Heat board so we're prone to side with our players (I know you weren't posting here back in the day but people made every excuse in the book for Beasley who produced far less than Bam ever did). Its not hate either because I promise if you polled this board, who their favorite player on the current team is, at least 70-80% probably say Bam (he'd be my pick).

You just have a very Bam-centric view of the team, both in terms of how it should be built and how the offense is structured (I actually agree he does everything defensively for us). Although maybe you're right, maybe Spo will unleash Bam and he'll magically become prime KG. Or maybe it'll happen somewhere else if he gets dealt. I don't see it, and I don't think many here do, but you could be onto something. Personally though, by not expecting we are holding back a "prime KG" level player, I can better appreciate who Bam really is and what he does bring to the table, which is enough that I'm pretty content with who he is.

I’m not sure we’re holding back a prime KG player but I’d love to get a high level playmaker and see Bams efficiency instantly increase because of that and possibly a couple more shot attempts as well likely resulting in arguably the best defender in the world averaging 22-25 a night to go along with his 10 boards and 4-5 assists and I actually think the dynamic of having a big scoring like that with high efficiency to go along with 2 perimeter guys who can give you 20+ a night would result in quite a few wins

[SoFlaKingReal]

I think they can sell Lillard on joining a core of Bam, Herro, Ware, Powell, Wiggins

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Deals will be made, we just have to be patient. I still feel like the Heat will make a run at Lillard for the minimum.

We’re definitely making another trade or 2 this summer and we’re 100% going after Lillard.

[lastb1ckman]

Either he or Wiggins have to be gone by the time the season starts. We can't go into the season with both.

If the only option is to attach a pick, keep em. No more of that ****. Especially with Wiggins, he is actually useful.

Agreed. I also think if we are forced to keep Wiggins I could get on board with seeing him in a reserve/6th man role. But the whole run the offense thing through him last year made me want to throw up. If the only way we know how to play him is to make him a focal point on offense, he's gotta go.

Norman Powell is here now, so i doubt Wiggins has that role again

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I agree Bam's efficiency is going up paired with a better playmaker. I don't see his scoring rising much though, other than some scenario where the whole offense is radically improved by 10-15 more points a night or something. It's not his forte, he has always looked uncomfortable being a lead guy. He looked amazing in the Olympics being allowed to just blend in and do the dirty work, and I think that's always going to be his best role on a great team.

I think the biggest fool's gold with Bam is seeing how skilled he is and expecting it to translate to every possession. He's a guy who yes, CAN do things you don't expect out of a big guy. But he doesn't react quick enough, and the times the team tries to go to him and get that every trip down the floor, the offense begins to stall and defenses load up on him.

He could take that next step, and just start seeing the game faster and reacting quicker. And in that scenario, I could see the 25 a night Bam you're probably envisioning. But I'm not going to expect it, and I'm not going to blame Spo or the coaches for it when I can watch the games in real time and watch Bam hold the ball for 3+ seconds every time and give defenses time to react to him.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I’m very chill and also reasonable, you just don’t agree with my view on the front office or Tyler and that’s ok. I understand that critiquing the front office when I felt they could and should have done more and critiquing Tyler are by far the 2 most unpopular things you can do but that’s not going to stop me from speaking my mind on it (or didn’t before my reformation).

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

Don’t throw the rock and hide the hand now… we have all seen it. With that said, your tone and vocabulary is more balanced these last few pages as you try to paint the picture of not being extreme.

Discourse with that 3ammy is very enjoyable, as I have said before, you do bring value and good ideas to the board in between all the chaos you also like to stir.

[MiamiLoyal926]

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

I think you underestimate how much of Bam's inability to do those things falls on him and not how the team uses him. And I think most in here would agree with me, and this is a Heat board so we're prone to side with our players (I know you weren't posting here back in the day but people made every excuse in the book for Beasley who produced far less than Bam ever did). Its not hate either because I promise if you polled this board, who their favorite player on the current team is, at least 70-80% probably say Bam (he'd be my pick).

You just have a very Bam-centric view of the team, both in terms of how it should be built and how the offense is structured (I actually agree he does everything defensively for us). Although maybe you're right, maybe Spo will unleash Bam and he'll magically become prime KG. Or maybe it'll happen somewhere else if he gets dealt. I don't see it, and I don't think many here do, but you could be onto something. Personally though, by not expecting we are holding back a "prime KG" level player, I can better appreciate who Bam really is and what he does bring to the table, which is enough that I'm pretty content with who he is.

I too would vote for Bam… and I agree with this summary of who Bam is and is not. He would receive far less critique if not paid the max, as many of us are from the era where getting paid the max meant something… and Bam does not have all the same it factors that max players of the past did.

[Kobewade11]

Wiggins looked like he was in a coma with us last season. He also flat out sucked.

It feels like a very quiet playoff series has clouded our judgement of Wiggins a bit. For the record, I'd have no problem moving him for some cheaper contracts or draft compensation but just to keep perspective - he only appeared in 17 games last year (Davion played nearly twice as many games), and his numbers were on par with his production in GS. Lackluster playoffs, frustration with his availability, 5reasons pumping hit pieces that he and Spo dont get along, and fans general perplexity with his reserved personality have distorted the reality to some degree. He was alright, he didnt suck.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It’s humorous how you see your posts as simply “critiquing”. You operate at the outer edges buddy… it’s all in or all out for you…

FO is “trash”, Riley is “washed”, etc is critique in your eyes, but something like “Bam needs to be more assertive on offense” is interpreted by you as us being all out on Bam and against him. It’s really a very interesting thing to observe you operate and how you interpret your own actions and language in here vs that of others.

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

Don’t throw the rock and hide the hand now… we have all seen it. With that said, your tone and vocabulary is more balanced these last few pages as you try to paint the picture of not being extreme.

Discourse with that 3ammy is very enjoyable, as I have said before, you do bring value and good ideas to the board in between all the chaos you also like to stir.

Calling him Joel Anthony, Tristan Thompson, Capela, etc. is also pretty extreme

[batterybro42]

The Giannis situation is interesting

Seems like a guy who wants out but does not know how to do it, and really does not want to look like a bad dude

He is in the territory Dame was in back at Portland

At some point he just has to cut bait, not a lot they can do with that team meaningfully with the rest of his prime. He is 30 the team does not own the rights to trade any draft capital until the 2030s. The Bucks are a tare down team, and a hard rebuild for probably half a decade. Myles Turner and Kyle Kuzma? What are we talking about here? Kevin Porter, and Gary Trent JR as your guard rotation lol.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Calling him Joel Anthony, Tristan Thompson, Capela, etc. is also pretty extreme

In all fairness, I think the extremes are often a direct reaction to your own hyperbole. I rarely see Bam critique of that level in a vacuum. Or if you do, its the same people that also overly criticize other players too.

I also can't recall the last time someone compared him to Joel, Tristan etc. I saw Randle stuff in the playoffs because Julius was playing really well, and I don't even think it was entirely unjustified, that was a really great playoffs for Julius Randle (who I still wouldn't take over Bam just to be clear).

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I agree Bam's efficiency is going up paired with a better playmaker. I don't see his scoring rising much though, other than some scenario where the whole offense is radically improved by 10-15 more points a night or something. It's not his forte, he has always looked uncomfortable being a lead guy. He looked amazing in the Olympics being allowed to just blend in and do the dirty work, and I think that's always going to be his best role on a great team.

I think the biggest fool's gold with Bam is seeing how skilled he is and expecting it to translate to every possession. He's a guy who yes, CAN do things you don't expect out of a big guy. But he doesn't react quick enough, and the times the team tries to go to him and get that every trip down the floor, the offense begins to stall and defenses load up on him.

He could take that next step, and just start seeing the game faster and reacting quicker. And in that scenario, I could see the 25 a night Bam you're probably envisioning. But I'm not going to expect it, and I'm not going to blame Spo or the coaches for it when I can watch the games in real time and watch Bam hold the ball for 3+ seconds every time and give defenses time to react to him.

Wouldn’t we see a solid spike in scoring though with higher efficiency and 2 or so more shots a night due to having someone who’s able to help produce higher quality looks? And to be clear I’m talking to the 19-21 PPG Bam we usually have, not last seasons outlier.

He definitely looks great for team USA and led them in scoring like 2-3 times I believe, he was getting high quality looks and operating with elite playmakers.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Calling him Joel Anthony, Tristan Thompson, Capela, etc. is also pretty extreme

In all fairness, I think the extremes are often a direct reaction to your own hyperbole. I rarely see Bam critique of that level in a vacuum. Or if you do, its the same people that also overly criticize other players too.

I also can't recall the last time someone compared him to Joel, Tristan etc. I saw Randle stuff in the playoffs because Julius was playing really well, and I don't even think it was entirely unjustified, that was a really great playoffs for Julius Randle (who I still wouldn't take over Bam just to be clear).

You gotta stick around for next regular season or dig up prior years game threads then lol, you weren’t here for majority of it. It was happening before me too btw because posters have dug up old posts

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Twitters a few days late but they’ve gotten the memo

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I agree Bam's efficiency is going up paired with a better playmaker. I don't see his scoring rising much though, other than some scenario where the whole offense is radically improved by 10-15 more points a night or something. It's not his forte, he has always looked uncomfortable being a lead guy. He looked amazing in the Olympics being allowed to just blend in and do the dirty work, and I think that's always going to be his best role on a great team.

I think the biggest fool's gold with Bam is seeing how skilled he is and expecting it to translate to every possession. He's a guy who yes, CAN do things you don't expect out of a big guy. But he doesn't react quick enough, and the times the team tries to go to him and get that every trip down the floor, the offense begins to stall and defenses load up on him.

He could take that next step, and just start seeing the game faster and reacting quicker. And in that scenario, I could see the 25 a night Bam you're probably envisioning. But I'm not going to expect it, and I'm not going to blame Spo or the coaches for it when I can watch the games in real time and watch Bam hold the ball for 3+ seconds every time and give defenses time to react to him.

Wouldn’t we see a solid spike in scoring though with higher efficiency and 2 or so more shots a night due to having someone who’s able to help produce higher quality looks?

He definitely looks great for team USA and led them in scoring like 2-3 times I believe, he was getting high quality looks and operating with elite playmakers.

Not necessarily, because part of the spike in efficiency is trading out 2 mediocre Bam isos with plays where someone creates for him instead. I don't want to add Bam finishes to Bam isos if we get a better playmaker, I want to swap them. And that might up his scoring marginally, but not enough to become a 25 a night guy.

I don't know if you watched a lot of Amare back in the day, but that's who I think Bam could emulate if he wanted to be more dominant. He's as skilled or more, he's around Amare athletically. The major difference (besides Steve Nash) is when Amare got the ball, he'd immediately attack. And while Bam is definitely a better passer than Amare, I think it causes him to have paralysis of choice sometimes, where he thinks too much about making the perfect play instead of just putting his head down and dominating his matchup.

And no, I don't think that's a coaching issue, and I say that because the Heat have had bigs that knew how to just attack in the past, look at Zo who wasn't even as skilled as Bam. It's Bam's own unselfishness, but not just that, but also his inability to read a defense faster. He can make the right play if he has the time to process, but when it gets sped up, if he stops to think it burns him.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I don’t think Riley is as good as he used to be, that’s not a crazy extreme take. I can change my vocabulary for you if it’ll help.

As for Bam being assertive or not, my stance remains the same as it always has been. If you want Bam to score more prioritize his role in the offense more as a scorer instead of a screener/facilitator and get a high level playmaker that is good operating with bigs. Spo wants him facilitating and freeing others up coming off his screens while he flirts with his 20 a night and Spo is completely fine with that. Trust me, I wish he’d say fuxk it too and just start gunning but you have to realize a lot of that wouldn’t be within the flow of the offense and would be a lot of isolation situations with defenders collapsing on him. Not an extreme take, just simply knowing basketball. And just for a heads up, as currently constructed it’s very possible he’s the 4th option in Spos offense next year regardless of what we or he wants.

Don’t throw the rock and hide the hand now… we have all seen it. With that said, your tone and vocabulary is more balanced these last few pages as you try to paint the picture of not being extreme.

Discourse with that 3ammy is very enjoyable, as I have said before, you do bring value and good ideas to the board in between all the chaos you also like to stir.

Calling him Joel Anthony, Tristan Thompson, Capela, etc. is also pretty extreme

I remember much of that discourse you instigated yourself back then. Key word instigated, as you actually forced people to balance your overestimate by also saying well, he also has flashes of these other guys. I was not part of that discussion, but read all of it and I am pretty sure many in here back then viewed Bam as a potential Shawn Kemp and even KG if things went right early on. With that being said, Tristan and Capela were more prominent figures back than aa well, and still not in their full forms when those comps were made. As such, it was reasonable to compare them to Bam. We all damn well know Bam was never going to be a Joel Anthony. I bet you those same comps have not been made in the last few years, now that we have seen TT and CC fizzle out and Bam continue to blossom.

You like to focus on the least favorable comps barely made ages ago and propagate that as the overall consensus on this board… it’s called seeing ghosts that aren’t there… or being extreme.

Calling him TT and CC is not extreme, it’s making comps based on similarities seen at that time in their games. Most saw Bam as having a floor of TT and CC, and a ceiling of KG. That is the room establishing the upper and lower limits, but realizing the truth is likely more in the middle between that floor and ceiling.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Calling him Joel Anthony, Tristan Thompson, Capela, etc. is also pretty extreme

In all fairness, I think the extremes are often a direct reaction to your own hyperbole. I rarely see Bam critique of that level in a vacuum. Or if you do, its the same people that also overly criticize other players too.

I also can't recall the last time someone compared him to Joel, Tristan etc. I saw Randle stuff in the playoffs because Julius was playing really well, and I don't even think it was entirely unjustified, that was a really great playoffs for Julius Randle (who I still wouldn't take over Bam just to be clear).

It totally is a reaction as if the board is trying to balance expectations by also pointing out the possibility of the opposite extreme.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Don’t throw the rock and hide the hand now… we have all seen it. With that said, your tone and vocabulary is more balanced these last few pages as you try to paint the picture of not being extreme.

Discourse with that 3ammy is very enjoyable, as I have said before, you do bring value and good ideas to the board in between all the chaos you also like to stir.

Calling him Joel Anthony, Tristan Thompson, Capela, etc. is also pretty extreme

I remember much of that discourse you instigated yourself back then. Key word instigated, as you actually forced people to balance your overestimate by also saying well, he also has flashes of these other guys. I was not part of that discussion, but read all of it and I am pretty sure many in here back then viewed Bam as a potential Shawn Kemp and even KG if things went right early on. With that being said, Tristan and Capela were more prominent figures back than aa well, and still not in their full forms when those comps were made. As such, it was reasonable to compare them to Bam. We all damn well know Bam was never going to be a Joel Anthony. I bet you those same comps have not been made in the last few years, now that we have seen TT and CC fizzle out and Bam continue to blossom.

You like to focus on the least favorable comps barely made ages ago and propagate that as the overall consensus on this board… it’s called seeing ghosts that aren’t there… or being extreme.

Calling him TT and CC is not extreme, it’s making comps based on similarities seen at that time in their games. Most saw Bam as having a floor of TT and CC, and a ceiling of KG. That is the room establishing the upper and lower limits, but realizing the truth is likely more in the middle between that floor and ceiling.

Here’s a few for you this year:


“Wait, I thought I saw the Warden?

Oh, nvm, it's Bam”



“Time to suit up Caron butler and Chris Quinn

Don't forget Joel Anthony

He’s already suited up in the #13 jersey”




“The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars”

Wild how much of an influence on everyone I have if your post is correct, maybe I’m selling myself short by not running for President when I turn 35.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

Twitters a few days late but they’ve gotten the memo

I would even toss in an extra second if need be