Holy Offseason I Can’t Believe it’s July FA/Trade/Waiver Thread

[celticgreenie]

I have a feeling Brad might over value Hauser like he did with Smart.

Last season during training camp there were two opposing camps about the value of Lonnie Walker. I think coming off a championship there was hubris. He could have diversified our offense just enough (he's a walking bucket) so we don't blow those two big leads against the Knicks. He was a good playoff performer for the Lakers when they beat the Warriors a couple seasons ago.

Hauser is paid $6m less than he is worth for that production and shooting.

He is on a value contract, like PP. you can't just get rid of him .


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Value contract I agree with but I was using value in terms of contributions come playoff time. He struggled against Orlando this year, and last year his 3 point shot ran hot and cold in the playoffs, mostly just cold.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

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[cl2117]

Brad is not going to force anything.

If there's no market for Simons then keep him, for now.

I would still do Simons, Tillman, and Hauser for Vuc and Coby White.

Yeah I don't think there is a massive rush here. During the season teams will face injuries and get desperate, we should able to find things eventually (especially if Simons shines box score-wise in Joe's system).

I hate the idea of stretching him but I believe the deadline for that is either the start or end of August, so we will know soon enough how confident Brad is in either a) just keeping Simons or b) finding a taker to get us better fitting pieces or below the line.

[cloverleaf]

I have a feeling Brad might over value Hauser like he did with Smart.

Last season during training camp there were two opposing camps about the value of Lonnie Walker. I think coming off a championship there was hubris. He could have diversified our offense just enough (he's a walking bucket) so we don't blow those two big leads against the Knicks. He was a good playoff performer for the Lakers when they beat the Warriors a couple seasons ago.

Hauser is paid $6m less than he is worth for that production and shooting.

He is on a value contract, like PP. you can't just get rid of him .


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Value contract I agree with but I was using value in terms of contributions come playoff time. He struggled against Orlando this year, and last year his 3 point shot ran hot and cold in the playoffs, mostly just cold.

Sammy shot 38% in the playoffs last year. One more 3-make in this year's playoffs and he would have been at 38% again, but even at that he was +19.1 and +16.2 on on-court and on-off/100 for the playoffs this year.

[jmr07019]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

[celticgreenie]

Hauser is paid $6m less than he is worth for that production and shooting.

He is on a value contract, like PP. you can't just get rid of him .


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Value contract I agree with but I was using value in terms of contributions come playoff time. He struggled against Orlando this year, and last year his 3 point shot ran hot and cold in the playoffs, mostly just cold.

Sammy shot 38% in the playoffs last year. One more 3-make in this year's playoffs and he would have been at 38% again, but even at that he was +19.1 and +16.2 on on-court and on-off/100 for the playoffs this year.

I am not the biggest fan using plus minus when judging players.

Even if Hauser was 1 shot away from moving fromm 33% to 38% in this year's playoffs, I don't like his chances of keeping that higher percentage had we made a deep run into the playoffs. The physicality of the game would have gotten to him.

Last year's playoffs, he had 12 of 19 games in which he shot 33 percent or below. We had a fairly easy road to the finals so color me unimpressed and defense wasn't as physical as this year's playoffs. His 3 point percentage was mostly buoyed by 3 blowout wins.

[Hal14]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

Interesting..I didn't realize that Minott's deal was non-guaranteed.

Just looked it up on Spotrac. It says it becomes full guaranteed if he's still on the roster past 7/15.

So in 4 days it's his guaranteed date. Which is odd, usually it's either a guaranteed date of like right when opening night happens (in case the guy sucks in preseason/training camp) or a guaranteed date of like January 15.

This July 15 date is interesting. We just signed him a few days ago. Like, what could possibly happen during that small 7 day window that would make us waive him?

I suppose just a little bit of insurance for the team in case someone better comes along during that week or if Minott does something stupid during that week (or suffers a serious injury)

Barring something very unforeseen happening in the next 4 days, I expect he'll still be on the team past his guaranteed date.

I think JD, Walsh or Tillman are the ones who could possibly get waived or dumped in a trade out of this group, to dip under the 2nd apron..

[phincsfan]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

Tillman was very disappointing. IMO, his knees MUST be shot. He started last season with chunks of minutes than poof, nothing over 10mpg. You could say his play was poor, but I think his knees are cooked.

They also knew he'd probably fail any physical and that's why he's still on the roster.

I'd stretch the 2.5mil they owe him. 1.25mil over the next two years won't hurt IMO.

I thought about the same thing a few days ago.

[Curmudgeon]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

LOL, Hoopshype has exactly the same individual salary numbers for the players but comes out to 206,570,707. One of those sites is wrong, but I'm too lazy to get out my calculator to determine which one.

[celticgreenie]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

Tillman was very disappointing. IMO, his knees MUST be shot. He started last season with chunks of minutes than poof, nothing over 10mpg. You could say his play was poor, but I think his knees are cooked.

They also knew he'd probably fail any physical and that's why he's still on the roster.

I'd stretch the 2.5mil they owe him. 1.25mil over the next two years won't hurt IMO.

I thought about the same thing a few days ago.

Parts of his game remind me of Dalano Banton. Can finish near the rim, lack of an outside shot, solid rebounder and passing chops.

[hugepatsfan]

IMO stretching Tillman is a bad idea. Doesn't sound like much, but if they do try to duck the tax altogether it's a yes or no proposition and even $1 over does them in. His deal would be able to be stretched over 3 years so it's about $848K dead money. It's not a ton, but it's very possible that they could end up in very tight math.

To show the math...

1) Stretch Tillman and incur a dead cap hit of $848,892
2) Salary dump Hauser's ($10.0M), Niang's ($8.2M) and Minott's ($2.4M) salaries at exactly the midway point of the season
3) Replace them with 3 rookie minimum pro rated deals ($636,435 each)

That would leave the Celtics about $151K below the luxury tax. But if they sign a player with 1 or more year of experience for those 3 open spots, they go back over the tax. The Tillman $848K of dead money isn't much, but it's the difference in being able to sign a decent buyout guy or not midseason if we're decent but still want to duck the tax.

Not saying we don't eventually dump him, but we can include some money to offset his salary or bake it into another deal. Just don't like locking in that dead money charge now.

[Curmudgeon]

Simons, Hauser or Niang will not be a Celtic on opening day. And you can put Jordan Walsh on the list if he doesn't perform well in Summer league. No need for dead money at this stage.

[cloverleaf]

Value contract I agree with but I was using value in terms of contributions come playoff time. He struggled against Orlando this year, and last year his 3 point shot ran hot and cold in the playoffs, mostly just cold.

Sammy shot 38% in the playoffs last year. One more 3-make in this year's playoffs and he would have been at 38% again, but even at that he was +19.1 and +16.2 on on-court and on-off/100 for the playoffs this year.

I am not the biggest fan using plus minus when judging players.

Even if Hauser was 1 shot away from moving fromm 33% to 38% in this year's playoffs, I don't like his chances of keeping that higher percentage had we made a deep run into the playoffs. The physicality of the game would have gotten to him.

Last year's playoffs, he had 12 of 19 games in which he shot 33 percent or below. We had a fairly easy road to the finals so color me unimpressed and defense wasn't as physical as this year's playoffs. His 3 point percentage was mostly buoyed by 3 blowout wins.

Not sure why you're still going to such contortions to smear his playoffs play.

[GoCeltics123]

I didn’t realize Jordan Walsh only has $200k guaranteed until opening night and is in summer league in year 3. He’s definitely a cut candidate, as is JD Davison, if the Celtics want to sign someone like Dame and stay under the Second Apron because they’re a little over

[jfs1000d]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

LOL, Hoopshype has exactly the same individual salary numbers for the players but comes out to 206,570,707. One of those sites is wrong, but I'm too lazy to get out my calculator to determine which one.

Probably my goes with guaranteed vs not guarantees.

Trust sportstrac.


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[jmr07019]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

LOL, Hoopshype has exactly the same individual salary numbers for the players but comes out to 206,570,707. One of those sites is wrong, but I'm too lazy to get out my calculator to determine which one.

My work is super slow today so I checked. The 208,155,950 number is correct. That’s for 15 guys

Tatum Brown White Simons Hauser Niang Pritchard Hugo Baylor Tillman Garza Minott Queta Davison Walsh

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

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What player has the most on the line at Summer League among those on the roster? -- Luke

Jordan Walsh would be the player to keep a close eye on given the construction of the roster. He’s entering his third season but his contract is only guaranteed for $200,000 until opening night. Baylor Scheierman passed over him in the depth chart at the end of last year and then the team added a host of wings via the draft (Hugo Gonzalez, Max Shulga) and free agency (Josh Minott) that present direct competition to his path towards minutes or even a roster spot hypothetically (if a 2-for-1 trade is made).

Walsh is only 21 but he hasn’t done much to stand out in limited stints during his first two seasons. His jump shot remains inconsistent at best (26 percent from 3 in career) and while there’s some defensive promise in his game, it hasn’t been enough to outweigh his offensive limitations so far. He will get plenty of chances to show his improvements in Las Vegas but he’s going to have to show some growth in order to feel secure about his future in Boston as the team weighs what are the best options to commit to building with around their stars moving forward.

[redslastlaugh]

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison).

Don't forget that once we are out of the apron, we can include cash in trades. I think it's more likely we trade Tillman (and his $2.5) to some team with $2.75 million cash or something, just paying a team a little cash premium to take Tillman off our hands.

Being able to trade cash again, this makes waive/stretch a minimum contract less necessary imo

[Dogen]

Spotrac has the Celtics at 208,155,950

2nd apron at 207,824,000

Stretching Tillman gets the Celtics under the 2nd apron. Alternatively they could cut one of the non guaranteed guys (Minott, Walsh, Queta, Davison). I have Queta as a lock to make the team. Davison is somewhat young and has been on a decent / good trajectory, team seems to like him. So it seems to me Minott, Tillman, Walsh are battling for two spots. Tillman probably has somewhat of a leg up on the other two as it’s not ideal to have dead money on the cap going into the future.

FYI - all the non guaranteed guys make between 2.2 and 2.4 million and there salaries are counted in the $208,155,950. So cutting one of them would get the Celtics under the second apron.

Interesting..I didn't realize that Minott's deal was non-guaranteed.

Just looked it up on Spotrac. It says it becomes full guaranteed if he's still on the roster past 7/15.

So in 4 days it's his guaranteed date. Which is odd, usually it's either a guaranteed date of like right when opening night happens (in case the guy sucks in preseason/training camp) or a guaranteed date of like January 15.

This July 15 date is interesting. We just signed him a few days ago. Like, what could possibly happen during that small 7 day window that would make us waive him?

I suppose just a little bit of insurance for the team in case someone better comes along during that week or if Minott does something stupid during that week (or suffers a serious injury)

Barring something very unforeseen happening in the next 4 days, I expect he'll still be on the team past his guaranteed date.

I think JD, Walsh or Tillman are the ones who could possibly get waived or dumped in a trade out of this group, to dip under the 2nd apron..

Yeah, that's a stange clause with Minott. I don't recall this happening before, and not sure why the non-guarantee for a few days UNLESS there was a possibility of a larger move for a coveted player in this window between July 7 and 15 and Brad wanted to keep options open in the event the team needed to shed more salary.

And Minott is not on summer league roster so it's not like they were planning on further evaluating him this week.

[celticgreenie]

Sammy shot 38% in the playoffs last year. One more 3-make in this year's playoffs and he would have been at 38% again, but even at that he was +19.1 and +16.2 on on-court and on-off/100 for the playoffs this year.

I am not the biggest fan using plus minus when judging players.

Even if Hauser was 1 shot away from moving fromm 33% to 38% in this year's playoffs, I don't like his chances of keeping that higher percentage had we made a deep run into the playoffs. The physicality of the game would have gotten to him.

Last year's playoffs, he had 12 of 19 games in which he shot 33 percent or below. We had a fairly easy road to the finals so color me unimpressed and defense wasn't as physical as this year's playoffs. His 3 point percentage was mostly buoyed by 3 blowout wins.

Not sure why you're still going to such contortions to smear his playoffs play.

I thought the contortions started with one three away from 38 percent.

Just trying to provide a more detailed breakdown of his playoff performance.