Free Agency & Trades Thread 2 **NOW OPEN**

[TeamDisgruntled]

Sure buddy... you are one of fhe biggest homers on the board to the point I hope you're cashing paychecks from the team lol.

There you go using that word again. Last year you were posting in that Gradey Dick thread, hyping up Whitmore. Others said it’s too early to tell and they were criticized.

Then Whitmore shows no signs of improvement, fails to address his weaknesses and then gets shipped out for peanuts. We don’t hear about him for months. Nothing but silence.

You don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the people hyping up Whitmore and bashing Gradey last year felt they had to come in and defend him after he had just been given up on? I did enjoy reading the desperation and lengths you guys would go to defend him though. “Stone from the goodness of his heart decided to trade him to Washington” “Houston is just too stacked to give Whitmore any minutes.”

There were only some people being objective, and it most certainly wasn’t you. Just because someone opposes your view doesn’t make them a “homer.”There’s a reason why people often oppose your views. It’s because they can be very questionable, often nonsensical. Like when you said teams don’t value defensive centers. You know you wouldn’t be saying that if we had Vuc and Poeltl was on another team. At least I hope not. lol.

Dude, according to your logic, Joe Johnson was a bust too because he's a scorer, and got traded after 2 years (8ppg) into the league for fn Tony Delk in 2002.

That’s a straw man, he never said he was a bust. He said at this point in time neither guy has done much, they both have lots to prove. But when the prevalent view in the Gradey thread was that, whitemore was a stud and Gradey was a bust - ppl were loud and proud. Now that whitemore looks less like a sure fire stud, and much more so a prospect with questions(just like gradey) those same ppl have been quiet.

Pretty sure that’s what he’s getting at.

[OakleyDokely]

Joe Johnson was also traded for Rodney Rogers, not just Delk. The Celts were making a playoff push so they added two vet rotation players in Rodgers and Delk at the deadline for younger assets including Johnson, which is typical NBA deadline move. That's a different situation than dumping a recent 1st for a couple 2nds to a tanking team in the offseason.

[Mattatron]

There you go using that word again. Last year you were posting in that Gradey Dick thread, hyping up Whitmore. Others said it’s too early to tell and they were criticized.

Then Whitmore shows no signs of improvement, fails to address his weaknesses and then gets shipped out for peanuts. We don’t hear about him for months. Nothing but silence.

You don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the people hyping up Whitmore and bashing Gradey last year felt they had to come in and defend him after he had just been given up on? I did enjoy reading the desperation and lengths you guys would go to defend him though. “Stone from the goodness of his heart decided to trade him to Washington” “Houston is just too stacked to give Whitmore any minutes.”

There were only some people being objective, and it most certainly wasn’t you. Just because someone opposes your view doesn’t make them a “homer.”There’s a reason why people often oppose your views. It’s because they can be very questionable, often nonsensical. Like when you said teams don’t value defensive centers. You know you wouldn’t be saying that if we had Vuc and Poeltl was on another team. At least I hope not. lol.

Dude, according to your logic, Joe Johnson was a bust too because he's a scorer, and got traded after 2 years (8ppg) into the league for fn Tony Delk in 2002.

That’s a straw man, he never said he was a bust. He said at this point in time neither guy has done much, they both have lots to prove. But when the prevalent view in the Gradey thread was that, whitemore was a stud and Gradey was a bust - ppl were loud and proud. Now that whitemore looks less like a sure fire stud, and much more so a prospect with questions(just like gradey) those same ppl have been quiet.

Pretty sure that’s what he’s getting at.

No. Go read the bs he posted days ago. He literally said there's a reason he got traded for peanuts after 2 seasons. Because he stinks. And gradey has more value etc.

[Los_29]

Sure buddy... you are one of fhe biggest homers on the board to the point I hope you're cashing paychecks from the team lol.

There you go using that word again. Last year you were posting in that Gradey Dick thread, hyping up Whitmore. Others said it’s too early to tell and they were criticized.

Then Whitmore shows no signs of improvement, fails to address his weaknesses and then gets shipped out for peanuts. We don’t hear about him for months. Nothing but silence.

You don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the people hyping up Whitmore and bashing Gradey last year felt they had to come in and defend him after he had just been given up on? I did enjoy reading the desperation and lengths you guys would go to defend him though. “Stone from the goodness of his heart decided to trade him to Washington” “Houston is just too stacked to give Whitmore any minutes.”

There were only some people being objective, and it most certainly wasn’t you. Just because someone opposes your view doesn’t make them a “homer.”There’s a reason why people often oppose your views. It’s because they can be very questionable, often nonsensical. Like when you said teams don’t value defensive centers. You know you wouldn’t be saying that if we had Vuc and Poeltl was on another team. At least I hope not. lol.

Dude, according to your logic, Joe Johnson was a bust too because he's a scorer, and got traded after 2 years (8ppg) into the league for fn Tony Delk in 2002.

What? Joe Johnson was dealt for two NBA rotation players and that team ended up going to the ECF. Whitmore was dealt for literally nothing. He was given away.

And Whitmore can still turn it around. His career isn’t over. I’m just saying he’s got a lot of work to do and a team giving up on him after two years isn’t a great sign. It’s also a lesson for some that they can’t get too excited about certain prospects for the sole purpose of diminishing our own prospects. Just watching Whitmore play, you’d realize there are some glaring weaknesses and his play style has never been conducive to winning basketball.

[OakleyDokely]

Iso Joe was a dude. Forget about the scoring for a second, he put up 5-6 assist seasons when scoring in the NBA was really tough. He did a lot of things other scoring at an average to above average level. If Whitmore had those other skills, he likely still be on the rockets.

[Mattatron]

Joe Johnson was also traded for Rodney Rogers, not just Delk. The Celts were making a playoff push so they added two vet rotation players in Rodgers and Delk at the deadline for younger assets including Johnson, which is typical NBA deadline move. That's a different situation than dumping a recent 1st for a couple 2nds to a tanking team in the offseason.

And the rockets are pushing for a 'chip.
Excuses. Billups for example was the 3rd Pick for the C's and they traded his ass for Zan Tabak and a bag of chips to Toronto - after a couple of months.

Idc about Whitmore but he acting like he's a complete bust, just because the rockets have a 200M$ payroll, and decided that his services to this roster construction are redundant, is just stupid. This was clearly a $$$ decision. @Los29 is a pure hater and homer. Eeeeww

[OakleyDokely]

Joe Johnson was also traded for Rodney Rogers, not just Delk. The Celts were making a playoff push so they added two vet rotation players in Rodgers and Delk at the deadline for younger assets including Johnson, which is typical NBA deadline move. That's a different situation than dumping a recent 1st for a couple 2nds to a tanking team in the offseason.

And the rockets are pushing for a 'chip.
Excuses. Billups for example was the 3rd Pick for the C's and they traded his ass for Zan Tabak and a bag of chips to Toronto - after a couple of months.

Idc about Whitmore but he acting like he's a complete bust, just because the rockets have a 200M$ payroll, and decided that his services to this roster construction are redundant, is just stupid. This was clearly a $$$ decision. @Los29 is a pure hater and homer. Eeeeww

I wonder how many minutes Mr. 2nd round pick is going to play for the Rockets.

[Los_29]

Dude, according to your logic, Joe Johnson was a bust too because he's a scorer, and got traded after 2 years (8ppg) into the league for fn Tony Delk in 2002.

That’s a straw man, he never said he was a bust. He said at this point in time neither guy has done much, they both have lots to prove. But when the prevalent view in the Gradey thread was that, whitemore was a stud and Gradey was a bust - ppl were loud and proud. Now that whitemore looks less like a sure fire stud, and much more so a prospect with questions(just like gradey) those same ppl have been quiet.

Pretty sure that’s what he’s getting at.

No. Go read the bs he posted days ago. He literally said there's a reason he got traded for peanuts after 2 seasons. Because he stinks. And gradey has more value etc.

Ugh, he does stink. That doesn’t mean he will stink forever. He obviously can improve.

And HumbleRen was getting off topic, I wanted to focus purely on Whitmore. In regards to Gradey, I said I highly doubt the Raptors would trade him for two SRPs. They still believe in his value. I’d also argue more teams would want Gradey as opposed to Whitmore. The fact the Wizards got him and they are the most incompetent franchise in the league (or one of them) tells me the market wasn’t too hot for Whitmore. It also tells me no winning teams wanted this guy.

I am critical of Gradey. He’s got flaws as well but his playing style is more popular among NBA teams than Whitmore’s.

[Los_29]

Joe Johnson was also traded for Rodney Rogers, not just Delk. The Celts were making a playoff push so they added two vet rotation players in Rodgers and Delk at the deadline for younger assets including Johnson, which is typical NBA deadline move. That's a different situation than dumping a recent 1st for a couple 2nds to a tanking team in the offseason.

And the rockets are pushing for a 'chip.
Excuses. Billups for example was the 3rd Pick for the C's and they traded his ass for Zan Tabak and a bag of chips to Toronto - after a couple of months.

Idc about Whitmore but he acting like he's a complete bust, just because the rockets have a 200M$ payroll, and decided that his services to this roster construction are redundant, is just stupid. This was clearly a $$$ decision. @Los29 is a pure hater and homer. Eeeeww

The fact you’re going back nearly 30 years to find examples of young players getting dealt too early is not a good sign. Maybe there are some examples from the 1970s as well?

Rockets are pushing for a chip and yet they unloaded Whitmore for 2nd round picks. If they felt Whitmore could help them they’d have kept him. Having a player making that kind of money while playing consistent minutes is extremely beneficial. Houston felt that Whitmore could not help them as a team aiming for a championship.

[OakleyDokely]

Whitmore is in a tough spot because he needs to be an elite and efficient scorer to get on the court. Being an average or above average scorer isn't really good enough because there aren't other reasons to play him. Teams aren't putting him out there for his defense, playmaking, rebounding, hustle etc. If he doesn't become a good 6th man type, I can see him bouncing around the league. But he was pick #21 so not much should be expected of him. Becoming a rotation player would be a success for a lower 1st.

[Psubs]

Offer David Jones-Garcia a guaranteed 3 year min deal.

[TGM]

I see why people feel like Whitmore was given away. However, this is the reality of the new NBA. The NBA has not expanded in a long time, players are retiring later, there is a huge influx of international players. Guys like Whitmore don't hold the same value that they would in the past. There are so many free agents looking for work so the over-all value of an above average or average prospect is just not that high anymore. Look at how easy it is to sign good vets at cheap prices.

Look at a guy like Hassan Whiteside he goes from being one of the top defensive players in the league to getting a minimum contract and then out of the league. There is no shortage of mid-tier talent.

[Pointgod]

Or here’s a crazy idea. Maybe don’t make snap judgments about young players who haven’t even finished their rookie contract. SGA was traded after 1 year in the league after averaging 11 points as a rookie. He was far down on the pecking order behind guys like Danillio Gallinari, Tobias Harris, Lou Williams, Montrez Harrell. He was getting the same number of field goal attempts as Landry Shamet and Avery Bradley. Sometimes circumstances just aren’t the favor of a young player so you can’t always judge them by their existing circumstances.

[navyblue]

Or here’s a crazy idea. Maybe don’t make snap judgments about young players who haven’t even finished their rookie contract. SGA was traded after 1 year in the league after averaging 11 points as a rookie. He was far down on the pecking order behind guys like Danillio Gallinari, Tobias Harris, Lou Williams, Montrez Harrell. He was getting the same number of field goal attempts as Landry Shamet and Avery Bradley. Sometimes circumstances just aren’t the favor of a young player so you can’t always judge them by their existing circumstances.

If this is in reference to whitmore. He "dropped" in draft, PHX has choice of taking him, chose seconds in the Durant trade. Was traded for 2 seconds. For so many teams to seemingly avoid him, sometimes the group think is correct.

Shai maybe not the major part of the Paul George trade, none the less was a positive and important part of that trade.

[Los_29]

Or here’s a crazy idea. Maybe don’t make snap judgments about young players who haven’t even finished their rookie contract. SGA was traded after 1 year in the league after averaging 11 points as a rookie. He was far down on the pecking order behind guys like Danillio Gallinari, Tobias Harris, Lou Williams, Montrez Harrell. He was getting the same number of field goal attempts as Landry Shamet and Avery Bradley. Sometimes circumstances just aren’t the favor of a young player so you can’t always judge them by their existing circumstances.

This is not a good example. SGA actually showed a lot in his rookie season. In the playoffs he averaged nearly 18ppg on good efficiency. During the season he was 5th on the team in scoring.

Clippers only dealt him because they were getting Kawhi and George. It’s not like they were actively looking to deal him because he wasn’t good. He was GREAT for the Clippers and people were high on him.

[bape_lovers]

RJ is getting traded daily because he is the weakest link in the starting lineup with no defence according to the board. Cam Whitmore is getting praised with just about the same skill set if not worse.

[Tor_Raps]

There you go using that word again. Last year you were posting in that Gradey Dick thread, hyping up Whitmore. Others said it’s too early to tell and they were criticized.

Then Whitmore shows no signs of improvement, fails to address his weaknesses and then gets shipped out for peanuts. We don’t hear about him for months. Nothing but silence.

You don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the people hyping up Whitmore and bashing Gradey last year felt they had to come in and defend him after he had just been given up on? I did enjoy reading the desperation and lengths you guys would go to defend him though. “Stone from the goodness of his heart decided to trade him to Washington” “Houston is just too stacked to give Whitmore any minutes.”

There were only some people being objective, and it most certainly wasn’t you. Just because someone opposes your view doesn’t make them a “homer.”There’s a reason why people often oppose your views. It’s because they can be very questionable, often nonsensical. Like when you said teams don’t value defensive centers. You know you wouldn’t be saying that if we had Vuc and Poeltl was on another team. At least I hope not. lol.

Dude, according to your logic, Joe Johnson was a bust too because he's a scorer, and got traded after 2 years (8ppg) into the league for fn Tony Delk in 2002.

That’s a straw man, he never said he was a bust. He said at this point in time neither guy has done much, they both have lots to prove. But when the prevalent view in the Gradey thread was that, whitemore was a stud and Gradey was a bust - ppl were loud and proud. Now that whitemore looks less like a sure fire stud, and much more so a prospect with questions(just like gradey) those same ppl have been quiet.

Pretty sure that’s what he’s getting at.

We get to watch Dick play every game so there's obviously going to be a lot more commentary on his ups and down. He would be catching DNPs the same way Reed Sheppard/Whitmore were. It doesnt mean they'll all be busts, they just aren't ready to play elite level winning basketball at the moment.

I was just commenting/laughing at people treating Whitmore like a bust because he got traded from a stacked team. Saying you like Whitmore as a 20 year old prospect has NOTHING to do with Gradey and it was clear to come folks that they couldn't let that go

[Tripod]

No one knows the outcomes of any of these guys...it's educated guesses. But what know is:

Cam was expected to be a mid lottery pick
He dropped in the draft for some "reason"
In 2 years, has not shown much improvement in weaknesses: passing and defense.
Every team could have traded for him this offseason and a bunch could have offered a 1st...and didn't.

So teams have now passed on him more than once in reality. They obviously have a "reason" for that.

Only time will tell how he ends up. He can certainly score, that's not his issue. It's the rest of his game that needs work and Wash isn't planning on trying to win next year so can afford the growing pains. It wasn't a big investment for them if it doesn't work out.

[Duffman100]

No one knows the outcomes of any of these guys...it's educated guesses. But what know is:

Cam was expected to be a mid lottery pick
He dropped in the draft for some "reason"
In 2 years, has not shown much improvement in weaknesses: passing and defense.
Every team could have traded for him this offseason and a bunch could have offered a 1st...and didn't.

So teams have now passed on him more than once in reality. They obviously have a "reason" for that.

Only time will tell how he ends up. He can certainly score, that's not his issue. It's the rest of his game that needs work and Wash isn't planning on trying to win next year so can afford the growing pains. It wasn't a big investment for them if it doesn't work out.

This is my concern.

There was a 'reason' he fell in the draft.
There was a 'reason' the return was only two 2nds.

NBA teams have a lot more info than we do of behind the scenes stuff (attitude, long term physical health). Not saying teams don't make mistakes obviously but clearly there's something there.

[StopitLeo]

No one knows the outcomes of any of these guys...it's educated guesses. But what know is:

Cam was expected to be a mid lottery pick
He dropped in the draft for some "reason"
In 2 years, has not shown much improvement in weaknesses: passing and defense.
Every team could have traded for him this offseason and a bunch could have offered a 1st...and didn't.

So teams have now passed on him more than once in reality. They obviously have a "reason" for that.

Only time will tell how he ends up. He can certainly score, that's not his issue. It's the rest of his game that needs work and Wash isn't planning on trying to win next year so can afford the growing pains. It wasn't a big investment for them if it doesn't work out.

This is my concern.

There was a 'reason' he fell in the draft.
There was a 'reason' the return was only two 2nds.

NBA teams have a lot more info than we do of behind the scenes stuff (attitude, long term physical health). Not saying teams don't make mistakes obviously but clearly there's something there.

Weren't there 2 main issues with Whitmore in the draft? First his knees and second his attitude (apathetic during workouts/interviews)?