Kuminga to Chicago

[Saul Goodman]

To GSW
Nik Vucevic
Ayo Dosunmo



To Chicago
Jonathan Kuminga SnT 30 mill per




The Warriors get super old here yes, but their team if they can load manage it, fully healthy is a darkhorse in the playoffs. Curry/Moody/Butler/Green/Vuc is a perfect fit with Ayo/Podz/Hield/Jackson Davis off the bench

The Bulls go for young upside. They essentialy reverse the Vuc trade of 2021. Giddey/White/Kuminga/Buzelis/Essengue is fun and interesting.

[Godaddycurse]

trade is illegal for warriors, too much incoming salary.

[nate33]

To add to Godaddycurse's post, Kuminga has base year compensation issues. Only half of his new salary counts as outgoing salary from Golden State's perspective in the trade calculation, but all of his new salary counts as incoming salary from Chicago's perspective. So Chicago has to send back $30M plus or minus 25% but Golden State can only receive $15M plus or minus 25%. That means about $15M has to go to a third party with the cap room or TPE to absorb it. And they will likely want to be compensated for their part.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Chicago is hesitant to throw 30M at giddey, but would do it for kuminga?

[nate33]

Chicago is hesitant to throw 30M at giddey, but would do it for kuminga?

To be fair, they have RFA rights over Giddey so there's no real need to throw $30M at him. Nobody else can offer more than the MLE. Chicago just needs to pay him enough so that he believes he is better off taking the contract rather than agreeing to the qualifying offer.

All that said, I agree that $30M is too rich for Kuminga. I think something in the $20-25M range is more likely.

[MotownMadness]

Would be a terrible idea at that price

[giberish]

Many things wrong with this

Wildly overpaying Kuminga's salary.
Not CBA legal due to BYC issues
Vuc probably isn't playable with how GS wants to play defense (Smith is a more plausible center return from Chicago).

[Wolverine]

Add the Jazz in there as a sign and trade for Giddey

[basketballwacko2]

Chicago is hesitant to throw 30M at giddey, but would do it for kuminga?

Yeah the first thing I was thinking "Kuminga is worth $30 million a year?"

[WarFan]

I don't expect Kuminga to get more than $25m anymore and probably less than that. At that number the BYC concerns start to matter less for the Warriors as they won't be able to add salary above the first apron anyways without using the full MLE and triggering a hard cap. As far as I can tell, the only real exception left would involve overpaying GP2 to add more tradeable salary.

If the Warriors are no longer concerned about being hard capped at the first apron, they can take back 50% of Kuminga's first year salary in a sign and trade plus $7.5m. So if he signs for $20m a year, they can take back up to $17.5m in salary.

If he's traded to the Bulls, one option that would be legal is Kuminga at up to 3/$64m (or 4/$87m or 5/$112m) for Coby White (maybe a pick involved, idk). As long as the Bulls keep Giddey's first year salary below $30m or so, they should have enough room under the luxury tax.

Other options that would work could involve Ayo with Dalen Terry or Javon Carter. Maybe a third team to take Terry or Carter if the Warriors don't want them.

[Dez]

No thanks.

I'd rather pay Giddey 30M than Kuminga 30M, at least he has a skill-set that is based around team play.

What does Kuminga actually do well?

[doogie_hauser]

Kuminga is damaged goods at this point.

Several NBA podcasts I listen too is the Dubs trade demands for him is way too high

Steve Kerr doesn't rate him at all yet The Dubs front office demanding a premium return for Kuminga in a trade is the height of delusional arrogance. They are planning to low ball him contract wise too. Deplorable front office (although part of it is of a result of the current CBA and luxury tax/apron stings , ironically mid tier players like Giddey and Kuminga suffer financially and playing opportunity wise because of it)

[DonaldSanders]

Kuminga is damaged goods at this point.

Several NBA podcasts I listen too is the Dubs trade demands for him is way too high

Steve Kerr doesn't rate him at all yet The Dubs front office demanding a premium return for Kuminga in a trade is the height of delusional arrogance. They are planning to low ball him contract wise too. Deplorable front office (although part of it is of a result of the current CBA and luxury tax/apron stings , ironically mid tier players like Giddey and Kuminga suffer financially and playing opportunity wise because of it)

I don't see any evidence of GS lowballing Kuminga. If anything, he was offered an unjustifiably large contract last off-season at 30M a year, which he declined. Now there isn't a lot of league-wise interest in JK, so the offers won't be that high. Really not sure where you're coming up with GS low-balling JK.

I do think that GS has fumbled JK as an asset, last year was the time to move him. However right now there is little incentive to take the deals that are out there because they've all been pretty poor returns, largely because of the S&T limitations. And while I'm not saying he'll get a huge return during the year, it will be a lot easier to grab a veteran or two at a similar salary in a swap.

At least until a S&T during the season on the nights Jimmy or Steph have off, he can really grab the wheel for the team and help out. With an old team he still has value there as someone who can provide scoring punch on those nights when guys are rested or injured.

[ChuckDurn]

Kuminga is damaged goods at this point.

Several NBA podcasts I listen too is the Dubs trade demands for him is way too high

Steve Kerr doesn't rate him at all yet The Dubs front office demanding a premium return for Kuminga in a trade is the height of delusional arrogance. They are planning to low ball him contract wise too. Deplorable front office (although part of it is of a result of the current CBA and luxury tax/apron stings , ironically mid tier players like Giddey and Kuminga suffer financially and playing opportunity wise because of it)

I don't see any evidence of GS lowballing Kuminga. If anything, he was offered an unjustifiably large contract last off-season at 30M a year, which he declined. Now there isn't a lot of league-wise interest in JK, so the offers won't be that high. Really not sure where you're coming up with GS low-balling JK.

I do think that GS has fumbled JK as an asset, last year was the time to move him. However right now there is little incentive to take the deals that are out there because they've all been pretty poor returns, largely because of the S&T limitations. And while I'm not saying he'll get a huge return during the year, it will be a lot easier to grab a veteran or two at a similar salary in a swap.

At least until a S&T during the season on the nights Jimmy or Steph have off, he can really grab the wheel for the team and help out. With an old team he still has value there as someone who can provide scoring punch on those nights when guys are rested or injured.

I agree….. I think the real dynamic right now is that Kuminga’s getting a reality check of what his value is around the league - he’s not finding anybody willing to pay him what he wants (the Warriors included), and the sign-and-trade offers back to the Warriors reflect not a whole lot of value or interest.

Setting that aside - I’m pretty sure the Warriors have moved away from any interest in Vucevic. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, his defense (or lack of it) would hamper the Warriors hugely, and they don’t want to go down that path. I think the only (name) guy on the Bulls that the Warriors would be interested in is Coby White, but I don’t think there’s a deal to be had there.

[giberish]

Kuminga is damaged goods at this point.

Several NBA podcasts I listen too is the Dubs trade demands for him is way too high

Steve Kerr doesn't rate him at all yet The Dubs front office demanding a premium return for Kuminga in a trade is the height of delusional arrogance. They are planning to low ball him contract wise too. Deplorable front office (although part of it is of a result of the current CBA and luxury tax/apron stings , ironically mid tier players like Giddey and Kuminga suffer financially and playing opportunity wise because of it)

I don't see any evidence of GS lowballing Kuminga. If anything, he was offered an unjustifiably large contract last off-season at 30M a year, which he declined. Now there isn't a lot of league-wise interest in JK, so the offers won't be that high. Really not sure where you're coming up with GS low-balling JK.

I do think that GS has fumbled JK as an asset, last year was the time to move him. However right now there is little incentive to take the deals that are out there because they've all been pretty poor returns, largely because of the S&T limitations. And while I'm not saying he'll get a huge return during the year, it will be a lot easier to grab a veteran or two at a similar salary in a swap.

At least until a S&T during the season on the nights Jimmy or Steph have off, he can really grab the wheel for the team and help out. With an old team he still has value there as someone who can provide scoring punch on those nights when guys are rested or injured.

I agree….. I think the real dynamic right now is that Kuminga’s getting a reality check of what his value is around the league - he’s not finding anybody willing to pay him what he wants (the Warriors included), and the sign-and-trade offers back to the Warriors reflect not a whole lot of value or interest.

Setting that aside - I’m pretty sure the Warriors have moved away from any interest in Vucevic. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, his defense (or lack of it) would hamper the Warriors hugely, and they don’t want to go down that path. I think the only (name) guy on the Bulls that the Warriors would be interested in is Coby White, but I don’t think there’s a deal to be had there.

I think there's three issues holding up a Kuminga deal.

The first is the disconnect in salary between what JK wants and what is being offered. Certainly what GS is offering to stay isn't what JK wants. I expect other teams aren't offering that much either, though it could be more than GS.

The second is the logistics of making a S&T work with Kuminga's BYC status and league wide payroll issues. A compounding part is that many deals would hard-cap GS at the 1st apron which makes their payroll rather tight to round out the roster. JK signing with GS lets them spend up to the 2nd apron giving them reasonable room to use the full TPMLE and some min salary slots.

The third is that GS wants actual value back in a S&T. Especially if they make a move that hard-caps them at the 1st apron they need guy(s) who are very good value/money (another reason why Vuc is out - really can't make the payroll work under the 1st apron with Vuc at $21M). Meanwhile other teams interest in JK is limited - worth a shot if cheap enough but not worth big value.

[One_and_Done]

But Kuminga is a bad player. Why would the Bulls want him?

[doogie_hauser]

But Kuminga is a bad player. Why would the Bulls want him?

He would be a good/useful player on a team that is a contender.

He doesn't move the needle or improve the Bulls expect to keep them stuck in their seemingly never ending mid tier mediocrity (aka make the play in and lose and don't get a decent enough lottery pick)

Bulls fans are just being held hostage by a miserable penny pinching scrounge of an owner and GM that is probably hamstrung to a point that he has to ensure The Bulls never bottom out but also never build/plan for the future, although their recent lotto pick definitely has a high ceiling.but also a massive risk as well.

I have more faith in Washington becoming a contender again before Chicago which is extremely damning. (The Wizards Front Office has been hitting home runs with their moves in the last 2 years and are clearing up valuable cap space)

[jredsaz]

trade is illegal for warriors, too much incoming salary.

Chicago has a TPE from Kyle Anderson I believe. Have they used that? If not, that makes the BYC a lot easier to deal with.

[One_and_Done]

But Kuminga is a bad player. Why would the Bulls want him?

He would be a good/useful player on a team that is a contender.

He doesn't move the needle or improve the Bulls expect to keep them stuck in their seemingly never ending mid tier mediocrity (aka make the play in and lose and don't get a decent enough lottery pick)

Bulls fans are just being held hostage by a miserable penny pinching scrounge of an owner and GM that is probably hamstrung to a point that he has to ensure The Bulls never bottom out but also never build/plan for the future, although their recent lotto pick definitely has a high ceiling.but also a massive risk as well.

I have more faith in Washington becoming a contender again before Chicago which is extremely damning. (The Wizards Front Office has been hitting home runs with their moves in the last 2 years and are clearing up valuable cap space)

He's not a good player on any team, never mind a contender. If he was, the Warriors would have played him more.

[Crazy-Canuck]

But Kuminga is a bad player. Why would the Bulls want him?

He would be a good/useful player on a team that is a contender.

He doesn't move the needle or improve the Bulls expect to keep them stuck in their seemingly never ending mid tier mediocrity (aka make the play in and lose and don't get a decent enough lottery pick)

Bulls fans are just being held hostage by a miserable penny pinching scrounge of an owner and GM that is probably hamstrung to a point that he has to ensure The Bulls never bottom out but also never build/plan for the future, although their recent lotto pick definitely has a high ceiling.but also a massive risk as well.

I have more faith in Washington becoming a contender again before Chicago which is extremely damning. (The Wizards Front Office has been hitting home runs with their moves in the last 2 years and are clearing up valuable cap space)

Imo, it's the other way around. Kuminga might have some value to bad franchises hoping to get lucky on the upside.

He doesnt really help contenders. If he was that useful, gsw wound have signed him already. Better yet, kerr would have given him more minutes.