OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT

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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#501 » by rockmanslim » Sat Jul 12, 2025 7:47 pm

azcatz11 wrote:
rockmanslim wrote:Anisimova's nerves got the better of her. She's no doubt a better player than that.

But after such a brutal result, her speech afterwards was one of the most impressive things I've seen in a while. I think it's cruel how they make the loser give speeches in front of a live crowd, but in this case it gave us a chance to see her composure and grace in the midst of a disaster. I'm now a fan of hers.


Are you a fan of Iga?

Not really but I don't dislike her. She aaaight
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#502 » by p0peye » Sat Jul 12, 2025 9:19 pm

MissileMike wrote:Yesterday was sad. Not because I have anything against "the new two", but seeing father time claim another victim.


Me too, man. As a person who's about to celebrate his 49th birthday, I definitively get sad and reminded of our own mortality watching father time take down athletes that used to look superhuman at their peaks. Novak is just last in long line.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#503 » by Raps in 4 » Sat Jul 12, 2025 9:34 pm

schnakenpopanz wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
schnakenpopanz wrote:Just to see who is the goat you have to see who played vs the other big2 most of the time during their peak. it was nadal. djokovic and federer had slightly worse competition later and early on. an in terms of injuries nadal by a wide margin.
.

Doesnt djokovic win the head to head vs both?

It is a difference when you play someone at their peak or at the backend. I look at it more like a time line. In an overlapping period of their peaks Nadal was superior overall Djokovic and early on Federer.
It is the same discussion about longevity and peak. Karl Malone is not in conversation for best PF because he had to go throught peak MJ.
Duncan is the best PF because he won vs Peak Lebron etc
To each their own


Your argument is beyond stupid.

Nadal is only a year older than Novak. Fed is six years older than Novak. Their peaks all overlapped and they all beat one another during that time.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#504 » by Raps in 4 » Sat Jul 12, 2025 9:38 pm

therealbig3 wrote:The fact that Djokovic is still one of the best players in the world and is still making semis in Grand Slams is amazing.

He passed Federer and Nadal a long time ago. Nadal is 3rd imo. Can't be the GOAT if you're nowhere close to it outside of a single surface. Federer dominated grass and hard court, and he still won a French Open along the way, and made the Finals multiple other times, only to lose to Nadal, who is the GOAT clay court player. But Nadal is far from dominant on grass or hard court.

Djokovic dominates all surfaces and won the H2H against them. He's also smashed the GS record. Pretty easy choice here.


Another knock against Nadal is the 0 Tour Finals titles (Novak has 7x and Fed has 6x) and 100-200+ fewer weeks at #1 than the other two. He just didn't have the health or stamina to last an entire season like Novak and Fed did.

Some will say 22 GS + 1x Olympic Gold > 20 Slams but I think the debate is more nuanced than that and you can absolutely make a case for Fed over Nadal for the #2 spot.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#505 » by therealbig3 » Sat Jul 12, 2025 9:46 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:The fact that Djokovic is still one of the best players in the world and is still making semis in Grand Slams is amazing.

He passed Federer and Nadal a long time ago. Nadal is 3rd imo. Can't be the GOAT if you're nowhere close to it outside of a single surface. Federer dominated grass and hard court, and he still won a French Open along the way, and made the Finals multiple other times, only to lose to Nadal, who is the GOAT clay court player. But Nadal is far from dominant on grass or hard court.

Djokovic dominates all surfaces and won the H2H against them. He's also smashed the GS record. Pretty easy choice here.


Another knock against Nadal is the 0 Tour Finals titles (Novak has 7x and Fed has 6x) and 100-200+ fewer weeks at #1 than the other two. He just didn't have the health or stamina to last an entire season like Novak and Fed did.

Some will say 22 GS + 1x Olympic Gold > 20 Slams but I think the debate is more nuanced than that and you can absolutely make a case for Fed over Nadal for the #2 spot.


It’s not to say Nadal doesn’t have an impressive track record on grass or hard court…he obviously does, he’s won multiple grand slams outside of the French obviously. But he was also way less consistent and losing to underdogs on those surfaces in his prime more often than the other two were. It’s not like if Novak or Federer didn’t exist, Nadal would have had WAY more titles on those surfaces. He wasn’t losing to them a lot of the time, and he was losing early.

On the other hand, Federer made the French Open Finals what, like 4 times, winning 1 and losing 3 to Nadal? In the era of the GOAT clay court player, Federer was the 2nd best clay court player at the time and would have had significantly more if it wasn’t for Nadal. Nadal didn’t really display that kind of consistency on all the surfaces.

He’s like the GOAT 3pt shooter that spams the ever loving **** out of that shot. Doesn’t make him the best overall player.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#506 » by Eightnineborn » Sat Jul 12, 2025 10:49 pm

Alcaraz is definitely coming for the record, I dont see a number 2 right now after Djoker leaves
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#507 » by Raps in 4 » Sat Jul 12, 2025 11:13 pm

Eightnineborn wrote:Alcaraz is definitely coming for the record, I dont see a number 2 right now after Djoker leaves


Sinner is on his level. And there will likely be other players coming up over the years that he'll also need to overcome.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#508 » by schnakenpopanz » Sat Jul 12, 2025 11:34 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
schnakenpopanz wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:.

Doesnt djokovic win the head to head vs both?

It is a difference when you play someone at their peak or at the backend. I look at it more like a time line. In an overlapping period of their peaks Nadal was superior overall Djokovic and early on Federer.
It is the same discussion about longevity and peak. Karl Malone is not in conversation for best PF because he had to go throught peak MJ.
Duncan is the best PF because he won vs Peak Lebron etc
To each their own


Your argument is beyond stupid.

Nadal is only a year older than Novak. Fed is six years older than Novak. Their peaks all overlapped and they all beat one another during that time.
Not if you include injuries which shortened the prime of Nadal. So would the arguments be different if AO would be in clay? I specifically mentioned the prime because Nadal played them at their peaks longer. If you count in longevity then Djokovic is superior by far.

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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#509 » by AleksandarN » Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:07 am

schnakenpopanz wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
schnakenpopanz wrote:It is a difference when you play someone at their peak or at the backend. I look at it more like a time line. In an overlapping period of their peaks Nadal was superior overall Djokovic and early on Federer.
It is the same discussion about longevity and peak. Karl Malone is not in conversation for best PF because he had to go throught peak MJ.
Duncan is the best PF because he won vs Peak Lebron etc
To each their own


Your argument is beyond stupid.

Nadal is only a year older than Novak. Fed is six years older than Novak. Their peaks all overlapped and they all beat one another during that time.
Not if you include injuries which shortened the prime of Nadal. So would the arguments be different if AO would be in clay? I specifically mentioned the prime because Nadal played them at their peaks longer. If you count in longevity then Djokovic is superior by far.

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I don’t recall Nadal being injured in 2011. When Novak wiped him off the tennis court that year. How finals did Nadal lose to Novak that year? Also if we are talking about injuries and Covid. Novak would have more tittles than Nadal by far if both were completely healthy.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#510 » by Johnny Fontane » Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:09 am

Eightnineborn wrote:Alcaraz is definitely coming for the record, I dont see a number 2 right now after Djoker leaves


Amazing player… the only thing that can stop him is injuries otherwise he’s at least a step ahead of sinner then there’s a massive gap until the next best player
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#511 » by ArksNetsSince99 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:25 am

azcatz11 wrote:That was a beat down. 6-0 6-0


Iga is much better after coaching change , old team put too much pressure on her and it shows right away winning Wimbledon
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#512 » by ArksNetsSince99 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:32 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
Eightnineborn wrote:Alcaraz is definitely coming for the record, I dont see a number 2 right now after Djoker leaves


Sinner is on his level. And there will likely be other players coming up over the years that he'll also need to overcome.


Nahhh Sinner isn’t on Alcaraz level right now and the gap will widen next year and forward

Alcaraz biggest enemy is really that he doesn’t have anyone to compete against on his level
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#513 » by azcatz11 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:44 am

ArksNetsSince99 wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
Eightnineborn wrote:Alcaraz is definitely coming for the record, I dont see a number 2 right now after Djoker leaves


Sinner is on his level. And there will likely be other players coming up over the years that he'll also need to overcome.


Nahhh Sinner isn’t on Alcaraz level right now and the gap will widen next year and forward

Alcaraz biggest enemy is really that he doesn’t have anyone to compete against on his level


It’s crazy how much above sinner and alc are ahead of everyone. Just watching that Fritz match - Fritz is tier 2 and alc had no problems with him even though Fritz probably should have won that 4th set. The match was never really in jeopardy though imo.

Idk if alc is levels above sinner…need to see more too early
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#514 » by ArksNetsSince99 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:50 am

azcatz11 wrote:
ArksNetsSince99 wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
Sinner is on his level. And there will likely be other players coming up over the years that he'll also need to overcome.


Nahhh Sinner isn’t on Alcaraz level right now and the gap will widen next year and forward

Alcaraz biggest enemy is really that he doesn’t have anyone to compete against on his level


It’s crazy how much above sinner and alc are ahead of everyone. Just watching that Fritz match - Fritz is tier 2 and alc had no problems with him even though Fritz probably should have won that 4th set. The match was never really in jeopardy though imo.

Idk if alc is levels above sinner…need to see more too early


Alcaraz is young and I would call him in a good meaning of the word a little arrogant against weaker competition , he needs one or two other guys on his level to become best version of himself
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#515 » by DirtyDez » Sun Jul 13, 2025 5:23 am

Young Nadal was unassailable but his decline on surfaces other than clay was rapid.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#516 » by Mrakar » Sun Jul 13, 2025 6:50 am

It's astonishing that Djoker continues to draw more criticism for being an anti-vaxxer(even though he is not) than Sinner does for a confirmed doping violation. And all of that after we had so many scandals with COVID shots...
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#517 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 10:03 am

Mrakar wrote:It's astonishing that Djoker continues to draw more criticism for being an anti-vaxxer(even though he is not) than Sinner does for a confirmed doping violation. And all of that after we had so many scandals with COVID shots...


Novak's pseudoscience beliefs are stupid, but anyone taking medical advice from an athlete is an even bigger moron. Tennis players don't even have high school diplomas. Anyone suggesting that Novak's actions were "dangerous" has negative IQ.

I don't give a **** what an athlete believes in off the court. If an athlete won't get vaccinated, it doesn't concern me because I'm not an idiot. I take my medical advice from doctors.

The only problem with not getting vaccinated is that it caused him to miss out on 3 slam opportunities.

Sinner getting banned for zero slams for roiding was a crime. Multiple players (in multiple sports) have recieved lengthy suspensions for taking that same substance. The only reason he didn't get a real suspension is that men's tennis is desperate for views after the end of the big 3 era.
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#518 » by G R E Y » Sun Jul 13, 2025 1:11 pm

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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#519 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 2:33 pm

G R E Y wrote:
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Re: OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT 

Post#520 » by Rust_Cohle » Sun Jul 13, 2025 5:53 pm

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with people saying Alcaraz is levels above Sinner. Sinner is comfortably POTY so far and has been playing at a higher level than anyone else throughout the season. His game has shades of a young Djokovic.

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