Patrick Williams is having his worst year

[GoBlue72391]

https://youtu.be/OiHg8e4Ntok?si=19zFt2Xbchqn7nH5

Pat looked so much better as a rookie. Quicker. Better handle. Shot looked cleaner and quicker. More active.

What happened?

Game got quicker and he got slower?

Probably a combination of injuries+weight gain+shattered confidence+and not improving his game at all, actually regressing in many ways.

[Indomitable]

https://youtu.be/OiHg8e4Ntok?si=19zFt2Xbchqn7nH5

Pat looked so much better as a rookie. Quicker. Better handle. Shot looked cleaner and quicker. More active.

What happened?

Game got quicker and he got slower?

Probably a combination of injuries+weight gain+shattered confidence+and not improving his game at all, actually regressing in many ways.

Just a disappointment

[ImSlower]

Hey, don't attack me here Chi Town!

Well played.

Nearly 40 year old IRL nickname but damned if it still works as a boomer gamer tag, and a very rare sports forum gag.

But why bump the Williams hate train my man? I'm the chief engineer, choo choo, but for the off season we can all agree it'd be great news if he came back next fall in great shape and hopefully permanently hypnotized into giving near max effort during his minutes.

[Mk0]

https://youtu.be/OiHg8e4Ntok?si=19zFt2Xbchqn7nH5

Pat looked so much better as a rookie. Quicker. Better handle. Shot looked cleaner and quicker. More active.

What happened?

Game got quicker and he got slower?

Probably a combination of injuries+weight gain+shattered confidence+and not improving his game at all, actually regressing in many ways.

I will die on the hill of "Someone with the Bulls staff told him to bulk up to play PF and the extra muscle ruined his good attributes just like it did with Lauri"

The guy's lift is horrible to where he was front rimming dunks for the first 3 months of the season.

Muscle doesn't do much for your ability to rebound when you never learned to box out.

And putting on extra weight, even if it is muscle, doesn't help your already questionable motor.

*I fully expect this kid to look WAY better once he is on a team that has him slim down and play to his strengths.

[Chi town]

Hey, don't attack me here Chi Town!

Well played.

Nearly 40 year old IRL nickname but damned if it still works as a boomer gamer tag, and a very rare sports forum gag.

But why bump the Williams hate train my man? I'm the chief engineer, choo choo, but for the off season we can all agree it'd be great news if he came back next fall in great shape and hopefully permanently hypnotized into giving near max effort during his minutes.

Bumping for all the summer league overreactions. Pat played really well and showed a lot and hasn’t shown barely anything that he did in SL.

Injuries have certainly slowed him down. Hoping he gets back on track. Not counting on it though.

[DuckIII]

Well played.

Nearly 40 year old IRL nickname but damned if it still works as a boomer gamer tag, and a very rare sports forum gag.

But why bump the Williams hate train my man? I'm the chief engineer, choo choo, but for the off season we can all agree it'd be great news if he came back next fall in great shape and hopefully permanently hypnotized into giving near max effort during his minutes.

Bumping for all the summer league overreactions. Pat played really well and showed a lot and hasn’t shown barely anything that he did in SL.

Injuries have certainly slowed him down. Hoping he gets back on track. Not counting on it though.

Can’t count on him on any plans right now other than as a potential obstacle and contract you might need to dump if the chance arises. Until proven otherwise you cannot count on him at all.

But I also do not count him out. I believe it is simply a matter of a lightbulb going off with him. I’ve always believed that. I just no longer believe in that bulb going off as anything more than an increasingly remote possibility. All the external variables have been removed.

But it would not be a shock to me if it happened. For that reason his complete lack of trade value could, theoretically, be a good thing. There is room on this future roster for a fully engaged player of P-Will’s type and natural talent.

Just can’t rely on that ever happening. As such, if for some reason we can dump him, it’s the right thing to do.

[dougthonus]

Can’t count on him on any plans right now other than as a potential obstacle and contract you might need to dump if the chance arises. Until proven otherwise you cannot count on him at all.

But I also do not count him out. I believe it is simply a matter of a lightbulb going off with him. I’ve always believed that. I just no longer believe in that bulb going off as anything more than an increasingly remote possibility. All the external variables have been removed.

But it would not be a shock to me if it happened. For that reason his complete lack of trade value could, theoretically, be a good thing. There is room on this future roster for a fully engaged player of P-Will’s type and natural talent.

Just can’t rely on that ever happening. As such, if for some reason we can dump him, it’s the right thing to do.

It's sort of funny because I would count myself more on the skeptical side of the Pat Williams debate for much of his time here, but I'm now a Pat Williams optimist compared to most people.

He's shown he can be a good open 3 point shooter, sure slow release, lower volume, but he can be pretty dangerous from there. That's valuable. He's shown he can be a good PoA defender. He's had a ton of health problem and hasn't had the chance to work out in the summer. Last summer especially, I even talked about it on my podcast, that he missed the whole off-season due to his foot and would come into the year out of shape and look worse at the beginning.

I don't know what will happen with him, I don't think it's a light bulb thing for me, I think he's just a slow processor in the basketball sense and the game doesn't come naturally. I don't think he's lazy, I think it just takes him too long to see what he should do and then it's too late. The decisions need to be made instantly, and he's just taking a second too long and the windows close. I do think that can get better with time, but I think there is a clear path to usefulness even if it doesn't.

If he just regresses back up to 40% from the three point line and strong PoA defense, and we get him to play within his skill range instead of trying to expand it, then I think he can be a valuable player again and potentially turn his bad contract into a neutral one in two years given the flat structure so will be shrinking as a percentage of the cap.

[WesPeace]

If this isnt the offseason that he goes back to more rookie body, gets into shape, leaner and faster.. he never will! Now he should fight for that SF role..

[Red Larrivee]

Even though the first year of this deal was awful, I think what Doug pointed out about the flat rate is a big saving grace. It can't make our salary cap worse going forward. At some point during that deal, 18M will be the new NTMLE value. And if Pat can even get back to just being an average, yet frustrating player, I think he's a lot more useful to us and he's a movable deal.

[DuckIII]

Even though the first year of this deal was awful, I think what Doug pointed out about the flat rate is a big saving grace. It can't make our salary cap worse going forward. At some point during that deal, 18M will be the new NTMLE value. And if Pat can even get back to just being an average, yet frustrating player, I think he's a lot more useful to us and he's a movable deal.

I’ll take it to my grave that $18 million is not a large contract and Pat doesn’t have to do much other than play at a level he previously achieved - which as you note is still a very frustrating level of achievement - for it to be tolerable. And stylistically, the theoretical Pat of a strong, powerful 3-D wing fits the jigsaw puzzle of the roster we appear to be trying to build.

He’s been infuriating. Especially for someone like me who believes the natural talent level is very high. But I’m a hoper now, not a believer. He just can’t put it together.

[Red Larrivee]

Even though the first year of this deal was awful, I think what Doug pointed out about the flat rate is a big saving grace. It can't make our salary cap worse going forward. At some point during that deal, 18M will be the new NTMLE value. And if Pat can even get back to just being an average, yet frustrating player, I think he's a lot more useful to us and he's a movable deal.

I’ll take it to my grave that $18 million is not a large contract and Pat doesn’t have to do much other than play at a level he previously achieved - which as you note is still a very frustrating level of achievement - for it to be tolerable. And stylistically, the theoretical Pat of a strong, powerful 3-D wing fits the jigsaw puzzle of the roster we appear to be trying to build.

He’s been infuriating. Especially for someone like me who believes the natural talent level is very high. But I’m a hoper now, not a believer. He just can’t put it together.

Right. I would guess that every team has at least 18M in contracts they would love to move, but can't. It doesn't make Pat's deal easier to deal with, but I don't think it's close to the crippling contract that some are describing.

[ChettheJet]

I want to salute Coby White for standing (or sitting) up with his friend and teammate. Showed up with a teammate to support his new kids getting their feet wet. That's character and leadership, two things generally lacking in message board experts.

[DuckIII]

I want to salute Coby White for standing (or sitting) up with his friend and teammate. Showed up with a teammate to support his new kids getting their feet wet. That's character and leadership, two things generally lacking in message board experts.

Please guide us through these uncertain times!

[drosestruts]

I know it generally means nothing - but i'd love a patrick williams offseason work video/clip

Give us something to overanalyze besides summer league

[DuckIII]

I know it generally means nothing - but i'd love a patrick williams offseason work video/clip

Give us something to overanalyze besides summer league

I’d take a photo of him looking like he lost 10 lbs.

[dougthonus]

Right. I would guess that every team has at least 18M in contracts they would love to move, but can't. It doesn't make Pat's deal easier to deal with, but I don't think it's close to the crippling contract that some are describing.

No one should view this deal as crippling.

It's annoying the way we negotiated with him, proactively offering him over what the market ended up being. Had we simply waited a couple weeks and seen Toppin's deal and held out like the Cavs did with Okoro, we'd have gotten him in the 8-14M range, because those were his comps IMO.

[Hangtime84]

I know it generally means nothing - but i'd love a patrick williams offseason work video/clip

Give us something to overanalyze besides summer league

He on the jimmy butler program no social media.

Only thing that’s active is the foundation page

[Chi town]

https://youtu.be/IV0CPoQ8jrM?si=K_gYMhUhAvcyB7L2

Will we ever see this again?

He looks athletic.

[eierluke]

Muscle or not, the problem is between the ears. No fire inside, Eddy Curry light and it won't change.
Playing himis a slap in the face of all teammates who want it more - not playing him won't help team cohesion either.
If there is a chance to buy him out, let's do it sooner rather then later. Offer him 60 mio stretched over 10 years, that would give us even a little additional cap flexibility in the near future.

[Dez]

Muscle or not, the problem is between the ears. No fire inside, Eddy Curry light and it won't change.
Playing himis a slap in the face of all teammates who want it more - not playing him won't help team cohesion either.
If there is a chance to buy him out, let's do it sooner rather then later. Offer him 60 mio stretched over 10 years, that would give us even a little additional cap flexibility in the near future.

That's just ridiculous, his contract sucks but it's not enough of a bad contract to attach assets or stretch.

That would be worse than the contract itself.