Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[ShootingtheJ]

KPJ / Rollins / Cole
Green / Harris / Ajax
GTJ / Prince / Livingston
Giannis / Kuz / Smitty
Miles / Portis / Sims

Livingston can get a 2 way contract, cut Ajax. We still need another wing.

I'd be fine having Livingston back on a 2-way.

Who's two-way do you take away then between Nance, Sears and Bouyea?

Nance and Bouyea are nice enough players, but are also 26. We have enough veterans and we're healthy, so our 2 ways should be developmental players. I'd replace Sears too because we're a switching team now, and he doesn't fit there.

[ShootingtheJ]

How much $$$ Green is looking for will be interesting. He's at $2.3 million next season. I don't really trust this board to set his value lol, many were worried that Trent and/or KPJ was going to get the MLE or close to it.

Been informed here that 4/$40 would be a great deal for us.

I like 3/20 a lot better and I think that’s much more reasonable for both parties.

Just make the contact descending, and we're good. We have no apron crutch this year and likely next.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

How much $$$ Green is looking for will be interesting. He's at $2.3 million next season. I don't really trust this board to set his value lol, many were worried that Trent and/or KPJ was going to get the MLE or close to it.

Been informed here that 4/$40 would be a great deal for us.

we need to lock him up for as many years as possible for whatever the number ends up. id offer the most years possible and maybe get a better annual hit.

4/40 isnt outrageous but seems a bit high. i think whatever it is sets a precedent for kpj and trent and some of these other guys we now have bird rights too as well. if we do well and all 3 come in around that number that would really help the cause the next several years.

but of the 3 the one i think is the most important is green. hes the guy id hate to lose the most. he can be donte 2.0. less all around game but better shot and less health risks

[rayallenscalves]

I am with Big O that we are going to have a Doc problem here. This guy will be far more impactful than Prince but he is going to take minutes from Green and Rollins.

Think the board should start coming up with Green/Kuzma/2031 deals for a wing.

That's a tough one. It's way too much for anyone in the Wiggins, Kuminga or Barrett range, but probably not enough for Trey Murphy or better. And to trade the '31, you need a legit good player on a good contract coming back.

How about a Kuz/Green trade without the '31?

MKE out: Kuz, Green, AJax
MKE in: Jerami Grant, Camara, and '28 and/or '30 swap rights get reversed or removed

Portland desperately needs shooting and they offload Grant's contract, while largely maintaining their defensive identity. Kuz is probably a similar player to Grant now, but $10M cheaper for one less year.

MKE takes on an admittedly ugly contract but picks up Camara, who slots in perfectly at SF as a defensive demon. Grant could still offer value as a backup combo forward. And as a bonus, they get one or both of the '28 and '30 swaps either reversed or removed.

PG: KPJ/Rollins/Cole
SG: Trent/Harris
SF: Camara/Grant/Prince
PF: Giannis/Bobby/Grant
C: Turner/Bobby/Sims

Lots of potential lineup combination with multi-positional versatility.

[Wisky4life]

I say, just Kuzma, Ajax and the pick should get us a wing.

Once that trade happens, i think we will all be happy and ready for the season.

Not the best roster but way better then it could have been.

Sent from my SM-S921U using RealGM mobile app

[Bernman]

I am with Big O that we are going to have a Doc problem here. This guy will be far more impactful than Prince but he is going to take minutes from Green and Rollins.

Think the board should start coming up with Green/Kuzma/2031 deals for a wing.

That's a tough one. It's way too much for anyone in the Wiggins, Kuminga or Barrett range, but probably not enough for Trey Murphy or better. And to trade the '31, you need a legit good player on a good contract coming back.

How about a Kuz/Green trade without the '31?

MKE out: Kuz, Green, AJax
MKE in: Jerami Grant, Camara, and '28 and/or '30 swap rights get reversed or removed

Portland desperately needs shooting and they offload Grant's contract, while largely maintaining their defensive identity. Kuz is probably a similar player to Grant now, but $10M cheaper for one less year.

MKE takes on an admittedly ugly contract but picks up Camara, who slots in perfectly at SF as a defensive demon. Grant could still offer value as a backup combo forward. And as a bonus, they get one or both of the '28 and '30 swaps either reversed or removed.

PG: KPJ/Rollins/Cole
SG: Trent/Harris
SF: Camara/Grant/Prince
PF: Giannis/Bobby/Grant
C: Turner/Bobby/Sims

Lots of potential lineup combination with multi-positional versatility.

We get the privilege of paying Jerami Grant 36 million 3 yrs from now, killing off potential cap space and extending into payroll yrs that projected to be tight for us, while conceding Green AND not getting a 2nd option? Well, sign me up!

[MickeyDavis]

I'm hanging on to the '31 pick come hell or high water.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

This is a Doc Rivers move as a favor to his friend Greg Anthony, who was a teammate for several years.

What's more disappointing than this dumb signing are the number of posters that think this guy is any good. He's not a good player. Reminds me of all the posiives about Kuzma I heard on this board after the move (athletic and can attack the basket).

The only positive that I agree with is he plays wih an edge. So does TA.

The guy is inefficient, has no point guard ability, is not good at defense and totally unswitchable (take your selective advanced stats and put them where the sun don't shine).

You can excuse it as a minimum signing, but when you have a coach like Doc, we can expect him to play a lot, especially since his Dad is a friend. I'd rather have Gary Harris, that's how bad Antthony is. Harris is a bettter defender and smart enough not to shoot too much.

Orlando got rid of him and HIS PLAYING TIME DECREASED EVERY YEAR SINCE HIS SECOND YEAR. Memphis just traded Bane and still didn't want him.

Anthony can get on a heater, but he is not a good player and Orlando and Memphis knew it.

Green, Rollins, KPJ and Trent are much better in every facet of the game. Doc has Horst by the nuts.

I understand your frustration with Cole, but let me explain some things…

Cole has point guard skills, he is actually pretty good passer and playmaker. But he’s not really good breaking down defense unless he gets down hill. He loss his minutes in year 3 because of Markell Fultz , then Jalen Suggs (more because of Jalen’s defense than his point guard ability). We also run the offense through Paolo and Franz so he was edged out. The year where he actually played starter minutes he averaged 5.7 assist.

He is a pretty good shooter but he is not a ball hog. He won’t chuck, only if he is on a heater. He’s not horrendous on defense just reckless and because of his size he does get hunted. He fouls a lot. His minutes decreased not only due to his defense but whatever personal turmoil he was going through really affected him. In fact, once his production soured, we all collectively knew something was going on in his personal life, he told us so in some of his post game interviews. You might not believe me, but he lost his production the moment he cut off his dreads due to a stupid bet he had with Mo Bamba. Not even kidding. I know it was a coincidence but it coincided with his personal problems.

But I don’t want to lie to you, Coach Mosley is a defensive minded coach so because his defense was not up to par, he was benched, and had a few DNP-CD. As for rather having Harris this Cole, the trust is, Cole will probably be more available to you. Harris missed a lot of time with us because he was always injured.

Thanks. A small guard who can't play defense is not something I look forward to.

Cole was on the 2nd best defensive team. Our standard for defense might be different. He can play defense, it’s just that our other guards out defended him and we’re talking Jalen Suggs, Gary Harris, KCP, and Anthony Black who are great defenders.

Now, because he is short he is not as switchable as you may like but because of his hops, the kid can get blocks, if he wants to. But he is foul prone, that is his problem. He has good lateral quickness and a great vertical leap. He does not really gamble for steals and he is a great rebounder for a guard.

Offensively, no one defend him better than himself. Most of his offensive woes is him getting in his head and taking some bad timed shots. He is not “unguardable” but when he’s on his heater every 4/5 games, no one can stop him. The problem is his consistency. Also…very important…he holds the ball for far to long and swing it out with like 4 seconds left on the shot clock at times when he is looking for his own shot and can’t find it. But in your team with a clear hierarchy I don’t think he’ll make that mistake.

[raferfenix]

Think the board should start coming up with Green/Kuzma/2031 deals for a wing.

Who are you specifically offering this package for?

Trey Murphy would be a coup and we’d include the 2032 swap but of course that still doesn’t seem to be competitive.

Kuminga would apply but most of this board thinks he’s a no-defense tweener chucker who we definitely wouldn’t want to drop Green for if that’s accurate.

Barrett or Wiggins would be underwhelming trading just the pick for much less what could be our long term starting SG in Green.

Others I’m missing?

[Bernman]

We have to do the opposite of taking on a lot more new dead $/bad contracts when we already have 22.5 minimum on the books and will eventually need to pay some of the cheaper guys on our roster, like KPJ & Rollins, if they hit like we want/hope.

Taking on dead $ we don't have to is more a rebuilding team's game. That's not an exchange we can afford. Need to be conservative with our payouts from this point fw & that $ has to predominantly go to core guys.

[ShootingtheJ]

How much $$$ Green is looking for will be interesting. He's at $2.3 million next season. I don't really trust this board to set his value lol, many were worried that Trent and/or KPJ was going to get the MLE or close to it.

Been informed here that 4/$40 would be a great deal for us.

I'm not understanding the hesitation to give Green an extension? He's a playoff caliber player on both ends of the court and the right age. If it was me, I'd replace this years deal with a larger deal that descends. That would make him a terrific trade chip down the road.

[Prez]

Both the '31 1st and Green should be off the table for anything short of a legit core piece at SF (e.g. Trey Murphy).

If we can't get someone like that, just hold on to them, run a bunch of 3-guard lineups to start the year, and see what you can do at the deadline.

[MickeyDavis]

How much $$$ Green is looking for will be interesting. He's at $2.3 million next season. I don't really trust this board to set his value lol, many were worried that Trent and/or KPJ was going to get the MLE or close to it.

Been informed here that 4/$40 would be a great deal for us.

I'm not understanding the hesitation to give Green an extension? He's a playoff caliber player on both ends of the court and the right age. If it was me, I'd replace this years deal with a larger deal that descends. That would make him a terrific trade chip down the road.

I'm in favor of an extension, I just have no idea what a fair contract for him would be.

[WeMajor34]

The AJ Green “rumor” is people speculating on social media. No actual intel involved.

With that being said, if someone like Trey Murphy comes up and it takes Kuz/Green/31 1st, you probably have to think about it if you’re Horst. He’d be THE perfect young wing to throw next to Giannis.

On Jake Fischer’s live streams, he’s been consistently saying that one of the next orders of business for the Bucks is getting Green on an extension.

I hope Green’s not going anywhere but he’s not untouchable if a perfect trade comes along. Though with Horst, you have to worry that he overpays and throws him in an RJ Barrett trade.

[JayMKE]

Im not **** my pants about having to dump Kuzma, he’s a low IQ player but it’s not like he’s cooked physically or has this crippling contract or is some malcontent. Kuzma can eat regular season minutes and will have better value, as a player since it’s impossible to be worse than he was in the playoffs but also his contract. Keep the powder dry, don’t trade Green or the 31 1st unless it’s bringing in a long term core piece.

I would prefer to keep Green around, I like that this team actually has shooters that don’t seem to have this Bucks curse where they forget how to shoot and also are serviceable defenders. I think these are the guys you want in the postseason right now

[raferfenix]

Doc said he thought both Green and GTJ were going to have breakout years flanking Point Giannis.

Ideally Coach has come around to starting GTJ at the 3 (or at least playing him a lot there).

If so we don’t have such a problem waiting for the right wing with size to come available.

[LUKE23]

I’m generally against combining AJG and the 31 1st in a deal, but I would for Trey Murphy. 25, signed 4 years, 22 pp36 last year, .383 from 3 career. He’s a legit long-term core piece.

If Kuzma stays, he just needs to be moved to backup PF. I just have high doubts Doc is smart enough to do that.

[soxperry]

Both the '31 1st and Green should be off the table for anything short of a legit core piece at SF (e.g. Trey Murphy).

If we can't get someone like that, just hold on to them, run a bunch of 3-guard lineups to start the year, and see what you can do at the deadline.

i agree.

right now, the identity of this team is going to rely heavily on shooting 3s at a high rate and a very high percentage. You cannot get rid of AJ Green and expect that to continue. But if you can get a legitimate guy who is a plus defender and can create and play make, now it becomes worth moving AJ.

Just typing that out though, we are talking about a prime Jrue level talent (probably more offense but less defense) and i'm not sure 31 1st, 32 swap and AJ Green get it done. The biggest problem is that so few of those players actually exist...at least those that are proven.

So you might be tempted to move the 31 1st alone for a guy like Cam Johnson like Denver did... but we are not in the position that Denver was in prior to that move and i think that's a bad idea. Denver basically still has their championship team intact with Murray only being 28 this year. They had an opportunity to swap their overpaid, injury prone SF with a guy who is almost the exact same size but a better overall player, more durable and makes much less per year. They have a proof of concept and now they will run that back out.

Our situation is a lot more fluid. It's been talked about, but i think our best course of action is to find that trade that gets us a good but overpaid player for Kuzma and Andre, and we can reassess things closer to the trade deadline if need be.

[raferfenix]

The Dumars factor makes it not insane to consider the Pelicans making a hilariously bad deal.

If they want to control more Bucks picks betting on a Giannis trade and if they are in absolute love with AJ Green maybe Horst’s old boss’ boss doesn’t hang up as a courtesy.

But much easier to see them getting a bigger haul we couldn’t compete with from someone else for Murphy.

[Milbucks96]

If we’re done, I’m pretty content overall with the offseason. The roster on paper looks a lot better than I expected was possible after Dame went down. Signing all of our guys back seemed like a long shot so just doing that was a plus.

I still can’t shake the Turner thing though. I feel like he’s not what we need right now.