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Bilal Coulibaly

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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#701 » by tontoz » Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:02 pm

NatP4 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
NatP4 wrote:To compare them at the same age. There’s no reason to dismiss Bilal’s age 19 production. Anunoby/McDaniels/Bridges were all in college at 19.

This is not complicated.



Actually it just makes Bilal's shooting this past season look that much worse because he already had a year of NBA experience. The other two didn't yet still shot far better outside 3 feet.

So can you find any comps that actually shot as bad/worse than Bilal at 20 and became good players?


False. Playing along with your bizarre obsession with the 3-10&10-16 ft range:

Anunoby in his 2nd NBA season (age 21, 1 year older than Bilal):
3-10: 27%
10-16: 33% (on 9 total shots)

Bridges 2nd NBA season (at age 23, 3 full years older than Bilal):
3-10: 33%
10-16: 36%

Bilal:
3-10: 34%
10-16: 28%

I don’t think anyone would be bothered by you outright stating “I am not a fan of Coulibaly” instead of whatever this is. Signing off of this one :noway:



Again the reason I brought up those ranges was to show Bilal shot poorly from everywhere since everyone was only looking at 3s, which were obviously awful.

45% of OGs attempts were from 3 and he shot 37% from 3, hence he shot far better than Bilal outside 3 feet. It wasn't close.

Over the past two seasons Bilal has taken 20% of his shots from 3 to 10 feet. OG only took 5% of his shots from that range as a rookie so his shooting in that range isn't as important as it is with Bilal.

If Bilal shot 55% from midrange like Bub then I would be more optimistic about his shot going forward. But he shot poorly from everywhere outside 3 feet. That isn't an opinion it's a fact. When he tries to create space for a jumper I can't help but cringe.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#702 » by NatP4 » Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:04 pm

False. Anunoby shot 33% from 3 in his 2nd NBA season.

If I play your game of moving the goal posts and misleading/cherrypicking with stats (or outright providing false numbers), I can say that 19 year old Bilal was a better 3pt shooter than 21 year old 2nd year player OG Anunoby (who played on a 58 win championship team).

Am I doing this right?
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#703 » by tontoz » Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:08 pm

NatP4 wrote:False. Anunoby shot 33% from 3 in his 2nd NBA season.


:lol:

But OG was 21 then. I thought we weren't allowed to compare Bilal to older players. Wasn't that your rule?

Anyway 33 is much better than 28 lol
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#704 » by Benjammin » Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:48 pm

I know I will sound old, but I remember a time when I loved statistical analysis in sports. That time is long past. +/- on/off numbers are particularly misused.

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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#705 » by closg00 » Tue Jul 15, 2025 6:05 pm

This has gotta be his leap-year, please be smooth this season.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#706 » by DCZards » Tue Jul 15, 2025 6:40 pm

closg00 wrote:This has gotta be his leap-year, please be smooth this season.
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That’s David Vanterpool from the Zards coaching staff. Must have been sent to France to work with Bilal.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#707 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jul 15, 2025 6:40 pm

NatP4 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Johnny Davis led the Wizards in On/Off differential. Everyone on the bench had better On/Off numbers than the starters. This is meaningless.



You do realize Kyshawn started most of his games, right?


Kyshawn:
Starter: 1077 minutes
Reserve: 726 minutes

Bilal:
Starter: 1948 minutes
Reserve: 0 minutes


According to BR Play-by-Play, Bilal Coulibaly had negative On/Off numbers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/coulibi01.html

Was Justin Chamagnie his backup?
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#708 » by closg00 » Tue Jul 15, 2025 7:36 pm

DCZards wrote:
closg00 wrote:This has gotta be his leap-year, please be smooth this season.
Read on Twitter

That’s David Vanterpool from the Zards coaching staff. Must have been sent to France to work with Bilal.


Really!? I thought it was Batum, what a great gig going to France to work one-on-one, I wonder if Alex was there too.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#709 » by payitforward » Tue Jul 15, 2025 7:40 pm

DCZards wrote:
closg00 wrote:This has gotta be his leap-year, please be smooth this season.
Read on Twitter

That’s David Vanterpool from the Zards coaching staff. Must have been sent to France to work with Bilal.

Not Nic Batum?
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#710 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jul 15, 2025 7:41 pm

Benjammin wrote:I know I will sound old, but I remember a time when I loved statistical analysis in sports. That time is long past. +/- on/off numbers are particularly misused.

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I remember when Kevin Pelton was a college student. Kevin Broom and I spoke about this back a couple of months ago. Now, Pelton is a "pay us " ESPN Insider. Then, he was posting on the Seattle Supersonics Forum.

I remember having a running debate with Jonathan Givony, before Draft Express had a pay wall and was devoured by ESPN. i thought a SG from Rice, (based on what I gleaned from statistics), would be a much better pro than JJ Redick or Nick Young. Jonathan was right in explaining what his scouting had observed why my guy wouldn't be as successful. DX was a great website and I am glad to see he and Kevin, a personal friend, are doing well.

https://www.sloansportsconference.com/people/jonathan-givony

Benjammin, I still love statistical analysis in sports. I just refuse to pay for it.

I was tracking stocks before I ever heard anyone call them stocks. (Danny Granger was prolific in college.) Now, everyone is hip to the importance of them. I this past draft, Kevin Sorber probably went too low.

Back in the day https://82games.com/ was a great source of stats. That and one doclinkin found https://popcornmachine.net/

I still like stats. I currently am following WNBA player stats.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#711 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jul 15, 2025 7:45 pm

Benjammin wrote:I know I will sound old, but I remember a time when I loved statistical analysis in sports. That time is long past. +/- on/off numbers are particularly misused.


I feel the same way. I think the biggest issue I have is that there is clearly way more information out there and people have figured out how to assess/interpret it in a variety of ways but it isn’t publicly available because teams are all trying to get an edge on each other in whatever way we can.

We can get a sense of what those numbers are telling them in a broader sense based on what teams are doing. Teams are leaning into multi-tool big wings with a combination of defense/defensive tools, passing, handles and shooting (on and off dribble from all over the floor) and less mobile or physically limited players are being increasingly squeezed out. The teams that go against these trends also tend not to be very good. T

The problem is that every team interprets the data differently. You have the Nets who clearly don't value verticality the same way the rest of the league does - just look at their draft where there was a pretty clear trend. The Raptors very obviously aren't worried about shooting but do value defense and bball IQ taking guys like CMB and Martin. The Wizards aren't as worried about the defensive results at present so long as the tools are there. The Pelicans aren't as worried about defensive measurables, taking probably the two worst players with respect to defensive tools in the lottery this year for their offensive skills. All these teams would shift gears given the proper circumstances for a player they liked enough but trends are there.

Beyond that, what the more specific details of how things are being interpreted, and what information do they even have, we wind up with the same old data that the league has clearly moved past and then it gets pushed around to try and create narratives, either preexisting or one's created by the data that the league isn't really worried about to begin with. It's not that they stats are bad or useless. They just don't quite feel like they match reality the same way they once did when teams were just starting out on their statistical revolution and using whare are effectively base levels of statistical analysis.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#712 » by tontoz » Tue Jul 15, 2025 7:59 pm

I heard that SGA works out against two defenders that are actually trying to stop him. That would probably be more effective than going against one guy who doesn't even try to contest a shot.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#713 » by DCZards » Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:12 pm

closg00 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
closg00 wrote:This has gotta be his leap-year, please be smooth this season.
Read on Twitter

That’s David Vanterpool from the Zards coaching staff. Must have been sent to France to work with Bilal.


Really!? I thought it was Batum, what a great gig going to France to work one-on-one, I wonder if Alex was there too.

That’s Batum guarding Bilal but Vanterpool is also in the video.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#714 » by doclinkin » Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:22 pm

Bilal should get good run with France in the EuroBasket championships this summer.

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Happy he and Sarr made the 18 player roster. They get a chance to refine their chemistry. Should be able to grab minutes as a starter instead of coming in off the bench as a defensive specialist like he did in the Olympics. I’d be surprised if this roster made it to the final games but still the experience will be valuable.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#715 » by leswizards » Tue Jul 22, 2025 4:13 pm

I have seen 2 different nba analysts write that Jamir Watkins (a second round draft pick on a two way deal, who has only played a few summer league games) has made Bilal Coulibaly expendable. Seems like an indictment of the prospects for this front office’s first first round pick.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#716 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 22, 2025 4:25 pm

leswizards wrote:I have seen 2 different nba analysts write that Jamir Watkins (a second round draft pick on a two way deal, who has only played a few summer league games) has made Bilal Coulibaly expendable. Seems like an indictment of the prospects for this front office’s first first round pick.

Which "analysts"?

I honestly don't understand this recent flurry of pessimism surrounding Coulibaly. Coulibaly has one real weakness as a player - his 3-point shooting. If that never comes around, then, yeah, he is merely a rotation player and situational defender. But if he gets up to 36%, he's a rich man's Herb Jones with some Jaylen Brown potential. That's a really good player and maybe an All-Star.

Given that he is already a 75% FT shooter at age 20, I'm fairly optimistic that his 3-ball will be okay.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#717 » by leswizards » Tue Jul 22, 2025 4:48 pm

nate33 wrote:
leswizards wrote:I have seen 2 different nba analysts write that Jamir Watkins (a second round draft pick on a two way deal, who has only played a few summer league games) has made Bilal Coulibaly expendable. Seems like an indictment of the prospects for this front office’s first first round pick.

Which "analysts"?

I honestly don't understand this recent flurry of pessimism surrounding Coulibaly. Coulibaly has one real weakness as a player - his 3-point shooting. If that never comes around, then, yeah, he is merely a rotation player and situational defender. But if he gets up to 36%, he's a rich man's Herb Jones with some Jaylen Brown potential. That's a really good player and maybe an All-Star.

Given that he is already a 75% FT shooter at age 20, I'm fairly optimistic that his 3-ball will be okay.


They both write for sports illustrated.

Bilal’s 3p% got worse last year.

He is a below average shooter inside the arc.

I am not in front of my computer currently so I may be wrong about the following (but I don’t think so):

He is below average from all areas inside the arc (ie, 0 to 3; 3 to 10; 10 to 16; and 16 to 3 point line).

He also has an awful shot selection (ie, shooting way too often from low percentage areas).
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#718 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 22, 2025 4:59 pm

leswizards wrote:Bilal’s 3p% got worse last year.

He is a below average shooter inside the arc.

I am not in front of my computer currently so I may be wrong about the following (but I don’t think so):

He is below average from all areas inside the arc (ie, 0 to 3; 3 to 10; 10 to 16; and 16 to 3 point line).

He also has an awful shot selection (ie, shooting way too often from low percentage areas).

Because he is a 20-year-old playing for a tanking team who is exploring what he can ultimately do in the future. His shot selection will be much better when he has better teammates on a team that is actually trying to win rather than develop talent.
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#719 » by AFM » Tue Jul 22, 2025 5:01 pm

How could Watkins make Bilal expendable, Watkins is literally old enough to be Bilals father
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Re: Bilal Coulibaly 

Post#720 » by GoneShammGone » Tue Jul 22, 2025 5:10 pm

leswizards wrote:
They both write for sports illustrated.

...



Slightly off-topic but Sports Illustrated is just a content-aggregator now. Its a sad story: https://www.deseret.com/sports/2024/1/22/24045267/sports-illustrated-is-dying-here-is-why/

Sold to private equity, which gutted it and turned it into a click-farm. Nothing you see there is from a reputable writer.

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